Just heard - new increases in VRT??

galwaytt

wtf??!! more???!!!

part of Herr Roches lemming crusade to Kyoto stupidity..........but I can't see any details on the www yet.............

astraboy

Great, another increase to a tax totally against the principles of the EU common market, and under the guise of "Environmentalism." Bull****(excuse my french). And we still have to pay tolls to use all the good roads.

um7y1h83ge06nx

What a balls, higher VRT is on the way:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0402/Climate.html

As if we weren't getting screwed enough!

slickmcvic

...and the greens have promised in INCREASE petrol by 20c a litre & a hike in road tax if they get in so it looks like We're F*ucked either way

mike65

Hi ho, fewer new car sales more UK imports.

Mike.

astraboy

You end up paying VRT anyway when you register the car, be it imported from Japan or britian, even though its illegal under the treaty of Rome.

quarryman

yeah so it won't affect the VRT we pay when importing a car from the UK, right?

It says the plan won't come into affect until 2012 though? Time to buy that Toureg so!

unkel

Merged the two threads

astraboy

quarryman wrote:

yeah so it won't affect the VRT we pay when importing a car from the UK, right?

It says the plan won't come into affect until 2012 though? Time to buy that Toureg so!

No, if you buy say a BMW 325 in britian, when you register it the customs office has a list price for each car and then charges you VRT based on that. You may save money on VAT vy buying in the UK, but you can't escape VRT if you want to register the car in Ireland. :mad:

Stark

Not a bad idea if it discourages people from buying the likes of SUVs and 4x4s for heading to the shops and dropping kids to school imo. I just worry that they'll use some inaccurate measure like raw engine size to determine what's a polluter and what's not.

ninty9er

AFAIK, it's to be emissions based...did any of you care to send a proposal to the Minister for Finance following his request for submissions on the matter????

If not stop complaining...you had your chance...I know I did....a while back though before he requested submissions, so whether it'll be included in the draft or not is another matter

Anan1

Stark wrote:

Not a bad idea if it discourages people from buying the likes of SUVs and 4x4s for heading to the shops and dropping kids to school imo. I just worry that they'll use some inaccurate measure like raw engine size to determine what's a polluter and what's not.

I think the plan is to base it on CO2 emissions, which seems fair enough to me. Personally, i'd like to see penal rates on SUVs.

astraboy

Anan1 wrote:

I think the plan is to base it on CO2 emissions, which seems fair enough to me. Personally, i'd like to see penal rates on SUVs.

I have nothing against SUV's, IMO the war against 4x4 is Irish peoples problem with people showing off and doing well for themselves. If a car has a large engine and is a polluter then it gets no bad press, but a 2.5/3.0L 4x4 does! but if a family wants to buy a 2.0L SUV because it might make loading and unloading the kids easier and have room for all the gear kids need then whats the problem? I hate this anti "gas guzzler" mentaily in Ireland when we don't really have gas guzzlers. In the US SUV's can come with engines up to 7 litres! That is a gas guzzler!

unkel

Anan1 wrote:

I think the plan is to base it on CO2 emissions, which seems fair enough to me

Not to me. A tax based on the potential to pollute is not fair. A tax based on actual pollution is fair

cantdecide

what kind of statistics are available for motoring costs? i'm so curious- we must be very high internationally.

we pay so much and get so little. look at the roads- I'm fed up of fixing my car because of them.

high cc cars pay enormous road tax already, completely disproportionate to their emmisions. as previosly posted- we don't have gas-guzzlers or a gas-guzzler problem in Ireland.

it is convenient to the government to treat the Irish motorist as a pariah? does anyone else feel tired of the pious environmentalists? i am one of the greenest people i know but i'm so sick of the punishment.



so the big one- What can now be done? who will be our champion?

what_car

ninty9er wrote:

AFAIK, it's to be emissions based...did any of you care to send a proposal to the Minister for Finance following his request for submissions on the matter????

If not stop complaining...you had your chance...I know I did....a while back though before he requested submissions, so whether it'll be included in the draft or not is another matter

fianna fail...............wot a joke
hope they get booted at next election......

is_that_so

unkel wrote:

A tax based on actual pollution is fair

Eh how does that work? Surely if a vehicle is known to have certain emissions isn't it reasonable to apply a tax to that? If someone claims otherwise let them go and get it tested.
I personally welcome it , evil things - SUVs .

colm_mcm

tax on petrol only makes so much sense. one that incorporates toll roads aswell. it's ridiculous what they're proposing for the M50. It's ridiculous to have to tax your car. It makes sense that if you buy very little fuel, then you're either driving a very fuel efficent car, or you don't drive as much. Why not reward people who use less fuel and cause less pollution.

DMC

I thought VRT was to be phased out by 2009, as Bruxelles said non?

Ba$tard

I'm all for tax (road and environmental) to be incorporated into the cost of fuel. I think, who is it, Finland do it already? Definately the fairest and most accurate.

"Per use" rates have a startling effect on people finding an economical and environment alternate - look what happened when pay by weight came in, recycling exploded (ok we crunch and ship our paper to China as fuel ).

It would also mean that the elderly who typically drive very low milage per annum pay less than what they need to now.

cantdecide

my 2.8 nets the govt. a grand a year in road tax even though it barely moves. like most people, my usage is my usage until a viable alternative is given.

i think the mechanics of the taxation are irrelevant- we pay far, far too much already, as we have done for many, many years.

in other words, lift your heads fellow citizens, we've already done OUR bit. It's actually Uncle Paddy's turn to do something about it. as opposed to taking some false moral high ground as he would have you believe he's doing.

further procrastination is all todays announcements amounts to.

booooooooooo

Tipsy Mac

Typical FF, do as I say not as I do...they all drive around in the most fuel ineffient tanks which they pay no BIK, no VRT and don't even pay for the fuel yet they want Joe Public to drive around in bubble cars stripped down to the shell with the bair minimum of safety features to allow them be affordable when VRT is added.

What surprises me most is us motorists do zero to go against them, why don't we get together and take it on as an election issue, simply get people to vote for anyone except FF. SIMI are in bed with this government for years, keeping VRT and avoiding any competition from overseas for the Irish consumer.

_Kaiser_

Tipsy Mac wrote:

What surprises me most is us motorists do zero to go against them, why don't we get together and take it on as an election issue, simply get people to vote for anyone except FF.

Because (massive generalisations ahead):
- Irish people are great at whinging to each other in the pub, but that's about it
- Irish people are sheep, and will vote for whoever our parents did rather than on the issues
- Irish people are too busy looking after our mates, and out for as much as we can get for ourselves, that we're bereft of any social conscience or responsibility ("sure what's the point.. " - which leads me neatly back to my first point).

... for what it's worth I agree with you though!

ninty9er

Tipsy Mac wrote:

SIMI are in bed with this government for years, keeping VRT and avoiding any competition from overseas for the Irish consumer.

Really

Could have sworn I've seen Cyril McHugh and other SIMI spokesmen on TV over the past few years damning the levying of VRT

Every election VRT is going to be an issue 2002, 1997.....yet I don't remember it ever reaching campaign level or for that matter getting support from any other party...remember that FG introduced it in the first place!!

edit: apologies 1992 election was originally included, however VRT was introduced after this time

Ice_Box

So yet again the government increases the tax on safe cars making the national fleet older and more people dead. FF just want organ doners.

There are miles of skid marks on the M7 where the pile ups happened the other day. This shows how few cars in this country have ABS. Keeping your children alive is taxed as a luxury by fianna fail.

RobAMerc

This government have a brilliant plan.

Use buzz words like SUV to convince plebs that "Big" cars are really bad for the environment. Then the plebs jealous of the people with SUV's are happy they are gonna be taxed more for their cars safe in the knowledge the b*stards in SUV's are getting screwed even more!

While politicians buzz about in chaufer driven E320 Mercedes etc or if traffic becomes an inconvienience they just jump on a chopper - no environmental issue with those of course :rolleyes:

To highlight the inaccurate bs they spout, the DTO's figures for average CO2 is taken as an average of all the cars in a range from lowest diesel to largest V8 yet as we all know the average SUV on the road in Ireland is the smallest engined diesel model emitting the lowest C02 and is in no way representative of the facts!

Ice_Box wrote:

There are miles of skid marks on the M7 where the pile ups happened the other day. This shows how few cars in this country have ABS. Keeping your children alive is taxed as a luxury by fianna fail.

Well said

NBar

So does anybody know when the VRT increase:( is going to start as I would like to vrt my new car before it goes up. And before anybody goes on about vrting it now as I am breaking the law the car is currently locked away until I get my own car sold

ninty9er

linky

Seth Brundle

is_that_so wrote:

Eh how does that work? Surely if a vehicle is known to have certain emissions isn't it reasonable to apply a tax to that? If someone claims otherwise let them go and get it tested.
I personally welcome it , evil things - SUVs .

Should a high polluting vehicle that covers 1000 kilometres per year be taxed more than a less polluting vehicle that covers 40000km per year? The latter will pollute more!
Where is the fairness / sense / environmental responsibility in that?

Ice_Box wrote:

FF just want organ doners.

Well it is organ donor week!

Seth Brundle

RobAMerc wrote:

as we all know the average SUV on the road in Ireland is the smallest engined diesel model emitting the lowest C02 and is in no way representative of the facts!

Every day I see loads of big 3L and up engined 4*4s. The M50 is full ov X5s, V8 Range Rovers, etc.

RobAMerc

kbannon wrote:

Every day I see loads of big 3L and up engined 4*4s. The M50 is full ov X5s, V8 Range Rovers, etc.

I realy do not believe that - take a closer look - you will find it hard to find a petrol X5 or RR in this country, in my nerdiness I always look at them and rarely see anything but TD's. These have far lower emmisions than the petrol V8 versions you may be mistaking them for.

For example : what % of the following search brings up petrol V8's ?

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&maxrows=100&MakeID=3&xMakeID=3&ModelID=35&xModelID=35&Year=&xYear=&submit=Find+cars+%3E%3E

Just to highlight the difference - a x5 3.0d has a CO2 emission of 233 - exactly the same as a 1.8T VW passat or seat alhambra 1.8T!
Are we going to start throwing rotten eggs at them too ?

NBar

And they plan to spend less on roads and more on public transport

:rolleyes:

Stark

More on public transport? Now I know they're making false promises

cantdecide

but seriously guys...

how do we raise these issues?

we are unanimous- further tax being piled on is nothing resembling a solution to the cited problem (which isn't actually as big a problem as they'd have you believe). Yes it is ripoffsville and there's no point in us bellyaching about it here as previously posted.

where is the point of information- i would love to know how much we pay to motor in this country compared to our fellow europeans.

surely some of the techy people here could organize an online petition to reduce the ripoffs that are rife in motoring and make it the huge election issue it is.

we must also do something about the state of the roads- driving in the UK recently- they're B roads are better than our dual carrriageways and it's not like we're not paying enough to expect decent roads. i'm fed up of pummeling my car on dirt tracks that aren't fit for a pony and trap.

Stark

cantdecide wrote:

surely some of the techy people here could organize an online petition

To quote someone else from this forum:

"Online petitions aren't worth the paper they're printed on".

overdriver

what_car wrote:

fianna fail...............wot a joke
hope they get booted at next election......

I sincerely hope so. Shower of absolute clowns. The minister asked for submissions, did he? Why, so he can look like he gives a sh1t what we think? It's quite clear he doesn't. What's amazing me is this getting out BEFORE an election.

cantdecide

let's not rant any more, political allegences aren't going to be swayed on motoring issues alone. i can say that as a petrolhead as most others can.

as a humble motoring forum, i think we're better off sticking-to-the-knitting.

so how can this be raised to an appropriate level?

ninty9er

The idea is to keep revenue the same but reduce the burden on the average punter with up to 2.0l cars especially if they pollute less...in fairness....you can never keep everyone happy...last time I looked most people were complaining about big 3.0l and 4.0l gas guzzlers (and there are a lot of those V8s in Suburbia what car). Now it's "poor rich people with their big cars getting taxed" FFS

Tipsy Mac

ninty9er wrote:

Really

Could have sworn I've seen Cyril McHugh and other SIMI spokesmen on TV over the past few years damning the levying of VRT

Every election VRT is going to be an issue 2002, 1997.....yet I don't remember it ever reaching campaign level or for that matter getting support from any other party...remember that FG introduced it in the first place!!

edit: apologies 1992 election was originally included, however VRT was introduced after this time

They made it an issue? , all they need to do is go to the EU if they want rid of it but they don't, it suits them to have it in place, it's all a cartel between them and the government to control car sales within the country.

Stark

ninty9er wrote:

The idea is to keep revenue the same but reduce the burden on the average punter with up to 2.0l cars especially if they pollute less...in fairness....you can never keep everyone happy...last time I looked most people were complaining about big 3.0l and 4.0l gas guzzlers (and there are a lot of those V8s in Suburbia what car). Now it's "poor rich people with their big cars getting taxed" FFS

Will there be tax reductions on cars that have smaller engines but more safety features?

overdriver

It was the brainchild of the muppet-in-chief Mr Aherne, as a backbencher originally, I seem to recall. It should not exist here under EU law, full stop.

Tanabe

I totally agree with you.

ninty9er

overdriver wrote:

It was the brainchild of the muppet-in-chief Mr Aherne, as a backbencher originally, I seem to recall. It should not exist here under EU law, full stop.

It shouldn't, but it does, and if the EU wanted rid it would be long gone....70% of our laws are EU originated

overdriver

They DO want it gone, and have told the Clowns Army that they want it gone. So far, Feel And Fall have been slow to take heed..

Fairer, stronger Ireland my hole.

ninty9er

So you know for a FACT that Pat Rabbitte with Trevor Sergeant at his side and Enda Kenny behind him is going to bin VRT if he gets elected to government. Don't think so...If they can reforem stamp duty throwing the housing market into recession and still come up with the €1.3bn in lost VRT revenue fair play...but it just won't happen.

Take the example of a 1.0l Yaris Luna as we know it in Ireland...in Finland it's the same price as here, in Sweden it's €2k cheaper, in Denmark it's a whopping €10k more expensive, plus you pay a whole raft in income tax

When any other party comes around here and says their programme for government includes the abolition of VRT then you can slate FF on it until such time please refrain from political slander:p (joking take it lightly)


VRT IS A PAIN IN THE ASS AND I DISAGREE WITH IT (at the extent...I think €50 would be enough on a small less than 1.0l that practically emits more pure ****** than Co2)
I personally agree that an extra 2% on the standard rate of tax would be better than VRT, but unfortunatley that's a pill the general public aren't willing to swallow

overdriver

That's the thing isn't it? We're constantly told that if it's abolished it will have to be replaced with something else. THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!! We shouldn't accept an unfair and illegal tax because we fear it may show up elsewhere. Whatever money they make off it is illegally obtained, and therefore it should not be tolerated.

As for slating FF, there's loads of things they can be slated on, besides VRT, but that would take up more bandwidth than boards.ie has. Suffice to say their days are numbered, please God.

MadsL

Will there be tax reductions on cars that have smaller engines but more safety features?

There had better be - I'm sick of paying for the 300cc my car does NOT have....praying for emissions based (Smart Car)

ninty9er

I know ther was an MCD issue on boards but o-x-y-g-e-n is an English language word and not the correct spelling for the event so why is it blocked as in my post above

astraboy

One post before I go to sleep. I never understood why VRT is placed on optional safety features. This is a scandal, yet rarely mentioned. Mistibushi released a new car recently and the base model does not have EBD, electronic brake distribution as it would raise the price too much with VRT. England gets the same base model with EBD. A disgrace.

ambro25

cantdecide wrote:

i would love to know how much we pay to motor in this country compared to our fellow europeans.

Well, I'll use the hard facts I know from the UK and France:

UK

2006 Impreza 2.0 R Sport (collecting it Thursday, yayyyyy! )

1st reg'd Mar2006, 8000 miles on clock, main dealer demonstrator. Spec-wise, everything and more on it (except a turbo): metal, recaros, 16 inchers, ABS, airbags everywhere, autoaircon, front fogs, heated mirrors, this-that-the-other. Did I mention it has Subaru's new engine design as well? £10k bags you one of them.

Tax per year: £180 (same for any car above 1,5L)
Insurance: £350 fully-comp with European roadside, protected NCB, courtesy car
Petrol: more or less 20% higher
Tolls - none
MOT (NCT) - yearly, about £20 (excluding any work/services)

Main driver 7 years NCB on UK license, me as named with French license (held 15+ years), both licenses clean.

France
(i) 2002 Citroen C5 1,9 HDi

New in 02, about 200,000 miles on it now, between €3 and €5k spent on it for various bodywork/mech.problems since (on insurance).

Tax per year: none
Insurance: €250 fully-comp (2 years NCB, and a string of metal bending near misses, total write-offs and a few drunk driving convictions (not my convictions btw))
Petrol: comparable to IE, 25% cheaper than IE over in Luxembourg 30 miles away (worth the weekly trip)

(ii) 2000 Renault Twingo 1,1L

New in 00, about 70,000 miles on it now, about €2k spent on it for various bodywork/mech.problems since (on insurance).

Tax per year: none
Insurance: €95 fully-comp (5 years NCB + the above individual and my brother (himself a few metal bending near misses) as named drivers)
Petrol: as for citroen above

Contrôle Technique (NCT): every 2 years, about €30

Tolls - very rare in the area, only paid if going to Paris (about €15 all-in for a 300kms/180 miles trip, first class M'way recently resurfaced, usually deserted) or Strasbourg (about €7 all-in for a 110kms/70 miles trip)

Oh, and if bought over in Luxembourg (30 miles away), either a new or a used car works out 2nd cheapest in Europe (with maxed-out spec). With no VRT when putting it on FR plates.

Ice_Box

astraboy wrote:

One post before I go to sleep. I never understood why VRT is placed on optional safety features. This is a scandal, yet rarely mentioned. Mistibushi released a new car recently and the base model does not have EBD, electronic brake distribution as it would raise the price too much with VRT. England gets the same base model with EBD. A disgrace.

This is the biggest scandel. The government are well aware of it but Roche is too lazy to do anything about it.

Ferdia O'Dowd on the Sunday Business Post often brings it up in his articles.