Louis Theroux: The most hated family in America

Glowing

Did anyone see this last night? I was amazed at Louis' ability to stay calm and not deck the head off that Minister.

It made my blood boil watching these people.

county

i knew there was something i was meant to watch last night:mad:

will it be repeated anytime soon?

Femelade

enlighten us, who know not of what you speak of ,my friend.

Ponster

Louis Theroux: The Most Hated Family in America
BBC 2 Sun 1 Apr, 9:00 pm - 10:00 pm 60mins

"God is your enemy." 'You will eat your babies." "God hates fags."

These are not typical Christian messages, but the fire and brimstone preachings of
the Phelps family who make up almost all of the 71 members of the Westboro Baptist
Church of Topeka, Kansas.

Probably the most controversial church in America, it is where Louis Theroux spent
three weeks trying to fathom why they have created such a strange ministry.

Since the Iraq war, this Church has become increasingly infamous for picketing the
funerals of dead soldiers as their protest against an America that "tolerates
homosexuality". The Phelps family believes that these soldiers were struck down by
God's wrath for fighting for a depraved and doomed nation.

Shirley, daughter of the leader – Pastor Fred Phelps – takes Louis into the bosom
of her family. Her 11 children go to school, watch movies and play sport, but they
have no friends and no spare time is allowed. Their life must be given over to
preaching against homosexuality and spent in preparation for, they believe, the
fast-approaching judgement day.

As Louis becomes a fixture around their home compound, he begins to witness the
buried emotional toll this life has taken on the younger members. Jael (21) says
she will never marry, never have a boyfriend and never have sex. Instead, she'll
attend five pickets a week across the country, shouting out the Phelps's message
of hate.

A group of toddlers hangs in her wake, holding picket signs they clearly don't
understand: six-year-old Noah has a banner emblazoned with the message "Thank God
for 9/11".

Louis also meets Steve Drain, the last documentary maker to film the members. So
touched was Drain by their message that, halfway through filming, he moved his
whole family down from Florida and is now Pastor Fred Phelps's right-hand man.

Louis locks horns with the leaders of the ministry and lays bear their inner
workings as they doggedly pursue their mission. But he also tries to find out if
there's any chance of the younger members escaping the influence of the elders.

xzanti

I saw that, it was crazy, little kids calling people "fags" and "dykes" :eek: complete hillbillies..

ekevosu

That was one messed up family....the pastor was just dodgy beyond belief - "next question". I did feel the older daughter despite what she was saying was harbouring doubts and not as militant as the mother who was basically forcing her children to take this isoated cultish lifestyle and brainwashing them to a large degree.

Glowing

"God is your enemy." "You will eat your babies." "God hates fags." These are just a few of the extremist views held by the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas. Louis Theroux spent three weeks in their company, locking horns with its leaders and talking to the younger members of the family to find out if there's any chance of them escaping the influence of their elders"

This church group were a very tight knit community, who pretty much disowned any member of the family who went against the teachings of the bible. They were convinced that they were the only group teaching and following the 'true word' and that everyone else was going to hell. At one stage, they flew especially to Chicago to picket an Army funeral with signs such as 'Fag Troups' and so on ... convinced that they were doing the family a service by preaching the truth to them.

It was sad however to see the younger kids out every day on the path holding pickets and not actually understanding what they stood for.

Unbelievable.

dr.bollocko

It was a documentary that would really test your interpretation of freedom of expression.
As said above, getting a 6 year old to picket a soldier's funeral with signs saying "Soldiers are fags" "God hates fags" etc. If you believe that that freedom is absolute as I do, watching this documentary will really test your restraint.
It essentially focused on a cult community blinded by hate, brainwashed and thought that they were literally living out a biblical end of days.

What made my blood boil the most was the restraint that Louis always shows. He is an intelligent man, and very adept at getting great footage in hostile situations, but there were a few times, particularly when members resolve was weakening, that he could have really gone for the jugular with these people.

robinph

Completely crazy bunch of people who had been brainwashed by their even crazier grandfather, and he didn't even seem slightly interested in justifying himself to Louis when he was asking him some relatively sensible questions.

Glowing

The pastor had to have been the most arrogant man I have ever had the pleasure of watching! You couldn't write the stuff ......

tmalmb

I found it interesting how all the so called bible bashing was focused around Gays i.e. if you were one or supported the rights of Gays or just tolerated it then you were destined for Hell. I must admit I felt really sorry for the kids, one of the 6 years old had something thrown at him from a moving car because of their HATE slogans. This family should be investigated by social affairs (or the equivalent in the US)

Sam Vimes

fred phelps has hate crime legislation named after him in canada apparently.

a reporter once came onto fred phelps to annoy him and michael moore followed the family around to their protests with a winnebago full of gay people and then had them do stuff to each other from across the road while they were protesting

dr.bollocko

Just saw another thread on this in humanities too.
Its here

Look at me go.
Being helpful.
You never know what might happen next.
Might start taking some of these posts seriously... responding non-sarcastically.
And where would we be then?
Iran probably.

eth0_

I have to say, i'm pretty disgusted with Louis Theroux. The way he flirted with one of the young girls to try and test out her 'no sex before marriage' beliefs was NOT what I would call journalistic integrity. It was great when she gave him a piece of her mind when she realised what he was up to.

He also showed nothing of their lives outside the church, even when a "rival" church in their locale burnt down, it simply got a mention, there was no investigation of this.

Louis Theroux makes biased reports that poke fun at washed-out famous people, vulnerable or uneducated people, and (although the family last night were pretty horrifiying in their beliefs) disrespecting a young girl because she has different morals to him.

besty

Easily one of the most bizarre hours of television I've ever seen. The Reverend Phelps was unbelievable. I mean, his dismissal of valid questions from Louis was pathetic. It was so obvious that he has never been challenged within his "family" and any external rationale put to him was just an alien concept which threatened his patriarchal status at the head of what was essentially a cult.

Unlike Dr. Bollocko, I don't think he could really have forced the issue much further and gotten anything worthwhile out of it. You could see the growing anamocity towards him by the end of his time there. A scary example of blind indoctrination.

Sam Vimes

i love the wiki entry for fred phelps


from wiki:
Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr. (born November 13, 1929) is a waste of blood and organs and a lawyer and founder of the Phelps Chartered law firm and the pastor and leader of the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), an independent Baptist church in Topeka, Kansas.

besty

www.godhatesamerica.com

Drax

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps

Interesting opening line in this article !

robinph

eth0_ wrote:

I have to say, i'm pretty disgusted with Louis Theroux. The way he flirted with one of the young girls to try and test out her 'no sex before marriage' beliefs was NOT what I would call journalistic integrity. It was great when she gave him a piece of her mind when she realised what he was up to.

I didn't see it as that at all. He was trying to show how daft it was that a 21 year old had to ask permission before leaving her own house to go out for a cup of coffee though and she didn't quite get it.

I thought that he could have discovered some of the family that had left the "church" though and found out something about how they managed to develop their own views though. The "documentary" chap who ended up joining the cult though was clearly not completely comfortable with being quizzed by Louis though at the end as he just started walking away though.

dr.bollocko

eth0_ wrote:

I have to say, i'm pretty disgusted with Louis Theroux. The way he flirted with one of the young girls to try and test out her 'no sex before marriage' beliefs was NOT what I would call journalistic integrity. It was great when she gave him a piece of her mind when she realised what he was up to.

He also showed nothing of their lives outside the church, even when a "rival" church in their locale burnt down, it simply got a mention, there was no investigation of this.

Louis Theroux makes biased reports that poke fun at washed-out famous people, vulnerable or uneducated people, and (although the family last night were pretty horrifiying in their beliefs) disrespecting a young girl because she has different morals to him.

I must say I disagree.
I can definitely see where you are coming from about the interview with the 21 year old woman.
This is in the car yeah? Outside the rally? He locked eyes with the girl, and spoke in a low tone, almost a coaxing tone, and indeed it could have been seen as flirtacious. But I think this was a tactic he was deliberately employing to try and approach her as a friend looking for information, not as a hangman, judging her and twisting her words with a camera. He didnt twist her words though, which would have shown a lack of integrity.

He is up against a girl who has been taught nothing but hate her entire life, from everyone she loves, from every family member, in every room she was in, slogans of hate. She cant separate her own human state, needs, emotions, empathy for others etc. from her twisted belief structure.
What Louis was trying to do was to approach her on a humanistic level as a peer, as someone who is hellbound according to her beliefs, to see if she could see the hypocrisy of her belief structure. You can only do that by hoping to communicate on a more informal level than interview.

Owen

Commander Vimes wrote:

michael moore followed the family around to their protests with a winnebago full of gay people and then had them do stuff to each other from across the road while they were protesting

Brilliant. Best way of Dealing with nutbags like this!

parasite

nah, it's just Louis shooting fish in a barrel as he's been doing for years in his own snide and smug way

Ghost Train

was very interesting show. amazing how they say they're doing gods work and warning people that they're sinners, but are quite comfortable judging people, picketing funerals and being happy about anyone who disagrees with their beliefs suffering tragedies/death because its gods will :eek:
they were upset when their kid had something thrown at him and was hit in the head, by their logic they should be happy, it was just god will

Sam Vimes

eolhc wrote:

was very interesting show. amazing how they say they're doing gods work and warning people that they're sinners, but are quite comfortable judging people, picketing funerals and being happy about anyone who disagrees with their beliefs suffering tragedies/death because its gods will :eek:
they were upset when their kid had something thrown at him and was hit in the head, by their logic they should be happy, it was just god will

if everything is god's will, isn't it god's will that "america loves fags"? if everything is his will, why would he create a world of people he despises and only give 71 people the "true path". seems kind of odd to me

Kingp35

Ok first off let me say that this family are nothing short of insane in my view and the things that they are horrible.

I want to say this though, the parents of the kids are doind nothing different than the millions of other religious families in the world, they are brainwashing their kids to believe what they believe. Take your average church going Catholic family in Ireland. The kids will be brought up to believe in the Catholic God and everything else that the family believes in because they will be told all this when they are kids. They are too young to have their own views and so they will believe everything their parents tell them at a young age.

Again the family are totally sick but the parents are doing no different than other families throughout the world except that their beliefs are different to the norm.

By the way I dont agree with subjecting kids to any religious dogma what so ever until they are old enough to make up their own mind.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

besty

Commander Vimes wrote:

if everything is god's will, isn't it god's will that "america loves fags"? if everything is his will, why would he create a world of people he despises and only give 71 people the "true path". seems kind of odd to me

I think such a profound rationale would be lost on such a narrow minded clan.

Jocksy

I have to say I found the Phelps family far less evil and worrying than the organisers of that Jesus Camp.

Pigman II

DOCUMENTARY: Louis Theroux: The Most Hated Family in America
On: BBC 2 Northern Ireland
Date: Wednesday 4th April 2007 (starting in 2 days)
Time: 23:20 to 00:20 (1 hour long)

Louis Theroux struggles to come to terms with the infamous Phelps family from Topeka, Kansas who picket the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq as a protest against an America that tolerates homosexuality. The family members wave slogans with messages such as 'God Hates Fags', 'Thank God for 9/11' and 'God Hates You' at pickets all over the States. The last documentary filmmaker to enter their world was so enamoured by the Phelps that he joined them. What does the future hold for Louis?
(Repeat, Widescreen, Subtitles, Audio Described)

Stephen

If anyone could do with some time in guantanamo bay, Fred Phelps could.

alleepally

Kingp35 wrote:

Ok first off let me say that this family are nothing short of insane in my view and the things that they are horrible.

I want to say this though, the parents of the kids are doind nothing different than the millions of other religious families in the world, they are brainwashing their kids to believe what they believe. Take your average church going Catholic family in Ireland. The kids will be brought up to believe in the Catholic God and everything else that the family believes in because they will be told all this when they are kids. They are too young to have their own views and so they will believe everything their parents tell them at a young age.

Again the family are totally sick but the parents are doing no different than other families throughout the world except that their beliefs are different to the norm.

By the way I dont agree with subjecting kids to any religious dogma what so ever until they are old enough to make up their own mind.

Here we go - wondered how long it would take before someone threw in the dig at the Catholic religion. This is simply a nonsense. I grew up a Catholic and we were brought to mass on a Sunday and I'm thankful for having parents who spent the time with us on Sunday morning and made it a real family time. Ok, we were young yes and didn't understand the meaning of mass, but we weren't brainwashed and my beliefs today are quite different to my parents so your argument is complete nonsense. You cannot compare the extreme views the people in this programme took compared with (say) the Catholic religion and ordinary decent families in this country trying to bring their kids up with a religion other than consumerism....

Kingp35

alleepally wrote:

Here we go - wondered how long it would take before someone threw in the dig at the Catholic religion. This is simply a nonsense. I grew up a Catholic and we were brought to mass on a Sunday and I'm thankful for having parents who spent the time with us on Sunday morning and made it a real family time. Ok, we were young yes and didn't understand the meaning of mass, but we weren't brainwashed and my beliefs today are quite different to my parents so your argument is complete nonsense. You cannot compare the extreme views the people in this programme took compared with (say) the Catholic religion and ordinary decent families in this country trying to bring their kids up with a religion other than consumerism....

Actually it wasnt a dig at Catholic religion it was a comment on EVERY religion in the world. I used Catholic because it is most relevant to this. Yes I can compare this family to a Catholic family because what they believe in is irrelevant its the fact that they are forcing their kids to believe in it is the point. Your fanily brought you up to believe what they do excatly the same as what this family are doing.

Oh what the hell does bringing up a family with a religion instead of consumerism mean?

Glowing

I feel sorry for the young girls who are living such a restricted, narrow minded way of life. There are so many things they're not going to experience as a direct result of their parents rediculous beliefs.
I think its going to be all or nothing for these girls - theres going to be no half measures. They'll be disowned if they don't follow the 'teachings' to a T.

alleepally

Kingp35 wrote:

Oh what the hell does bringing up a family with a religion instead of consumerism mean?

Eh, have you not heard that the new religion in Ireland is CONSUMERISM ???? Many commentators have written on the subject..

If you are anti-religion at least have some perspective on the diffference between people bringing their kids up with a hate filled doctrine V the religion I was brought up in.

Marksie

Commander Vimes wrote:

fred phelps has hate crime legislation named after him in canada apparently.

Yep thats right, its known as the Phelps law, or the Chick law after the guy who does chick publications whihc are equally as ugly and funny in turn.

If you remember the shooting of the amish school kids, it was the Phelps family which turned up to protest that these kids would burn in hell.

Unfortunately when the us moved to stop them, they were hoisted by their own PC brigade.

One of these days they will protest at a WASP or NRA funreal... then they will have a personal meeting with god arranged methinks

robinph

alleepally wrote:

Eh, have you not heard that the new religion in Ireland is CONSUMERISM ???? Many commentators have written on the subject..

What has buying stuff got to do with believing in imaginary supernatural beings?

DadaKopf

I like Louis Theroux a lot, and always enjoy his shows. They're not documentaries, they're not fly on the walls. Maybe, too much, the documentaries are focused on Theroux himself, but in a way, his style of questioning, while to some might look smug, is neither confrontational nor cynical. He just picks away, trying to indirectly test people's reactions in the hope that they might reveal something more truthful about themselves than they would consciously say.

This said, a little real journalism wouldn't go astray in some of his shows.

And I was really disappointed with this one. It seemed to me he's scraping the bottom of the barrel, going for the easy shots. He should have tracked down the ones who had "fallen away". And flirting with the girl was gruesome, but at the same time, her reaction was very telling in a way which she would not have consciously admitted. Overall, though, I just thought it wasn't very good. Simple as that.

Thing is, I kind of liked the Phelps family. Gramps had something of a poetic Hitler quality about him. A sort of right-wing, totalitarian Allen Ginsberg. And their signs and whole use of language and imagery were straight out of Punk 101. Turning Hate into something productive (in their views) I found really cool. I think they're mental, and I think they let themselves be used by FOX and other media to stifle debate (not that they could debate themselves).

Kingp35

alleepally wrote:

If you are anti-religion at least have some perspective on the diffference between people bringing their kids up with a hate filled doctrine V the religion I was brought up in.

Of course there is a difference in the beliefs, im not comparing the actual belief systems of the different religions. Obviously the belifs this family holds are horrible compared to Catholic beliefs. Im saying that these parents are doing nothing different to other parents when it comes to teaching their children what the believe.

Mossy Monk

Watched it. Enjoyed it. Great Documentary.

alleepally

robinph wrote:

What has buying stuff got to do with believing in imaginary supernatural beings?

So you don't see a belief system in place in buying stuff ?? People buy stuff in the belief that it will make them happy.

alleepally

Kingp35 wrote:

Of course there is a difference in the beliefs, im not comparing the actual belief systems of the different religions. Obviously the belifs this family holds are horrible compared to Catholic beliefs. Im saying that these parents are doing nothing different to other parents when it comes to teaching their children what the believe.

Ok, I see where you are coming from.

magpie

God hates America because America loves 'fags', and the best way to alert people to this is to protest at dead soldiers' funerals.

All seems very logical to me, can't see what the fuss is about.

Haven't a Clue

I just liked the way he said "YOUR ASS IS GOING TO HELL!". I'd also like to know what exactly was required for a question to be a good one for the pastor.

griffdaddy

it says in that wikipedia article that Phelps hates Irish people? what's that about? is it because of our well formed bums and camp demeanor?

robinph

Haven't a Clue wrote:

I'd also like to know what exactly was required for a question to be a good one for the pastor.

"You are one of gods chosen people aren't you?" might have got an actual answer out of him.

Any real questions he would just ignore though.

Plissken1

Reminded me of Ireland in the 80's

Plissken1

griffdaddy wrote:

it says in that wikipedia article that Phelps hates Irish people? what's that about? is it because of our well formed bums and camp demeanor?

No its because we are turning into Chav's and we all know "God Hates Chav's"

Stephen

Probably because most of us are Catholics (I'm not) and he hates them too.

LFCFan

alleepally wrote:

So you don't see a belief system in place in buying stuff ?? People buy stuff in the belief that it will make them happy.

but once you've bought it and it makes you happy it's no longer a belief and it is now fact. Religion is based 100% on belief as is all religion so in that sense, consumerism can't be considered a form of religion!

alrac

Kingp35 wrote:

Of course there is a difference in the beliefs, im not comparing the actual belief systems of the different religions. Obviously the belifs this family holds are horrible compared to Catholic beliefs. Im saying that these parents are doing nothing different to other parents when it comes to teaching their children what the believe.

I don't want to get away from the original subject but just had to point out that that wackjob family believed that gay people were bound for hell and so were all who supported them....and I just wondered how could anyone consider that the Catholic Church's position to be much different....Pope Bendict XVI, whom catholics believe to be infallible and God's representative on Earth, is vehemently opposed to any change in the church's stance on homosexuality, and has described homosexuality as an "intrinsic moral evil," and "an objective disorder." This is a quote from a gay rights site called Rainbow.com (or similar) that puts it rather neatly "[Pope Benedict] has driven out members of the church that have attempted a more liberal approach to homosexuality. He is also against legislative protection for gay people. One of the Pope's first public proclamations was to condemn the introduction in Spain of partnership rights for same sex couples. The Vatican warned Roman Catholic officials that any support of the bill would end in the loss of their positions and argued that every person linked with implementing homosexual marriages should oppose it, even if it meant losing their jobs."

.The Catholic Church's position is delivered in more socially acceptable forums and couched in more palatable terms but the message wouldn't appear to be all that different?

I've never quoted John Lennon before but i will now: "Imagine.......And no religion too,Imagine all the people, Living life in peace."...
could be time to give it a try!!!
a

alleepally

LFCFan wrote:

but once you've bought it and it makes you happy it's no longer a belief and it is now fact. Religion is based 100% on belief as is all religion so in that sense, consumerism can't be considered a form of religion!

It is reasonable to say that a religion in the traditional sense of the word is to find spiritual enlightenment. This bring happiness.... The meaning of life is to "find you bliss" - what makes you happy. Some people find happiness in consuming things - therefore it is can be considered a form of religion for that person.