Who's life meant more in death?

faceman

Who throughout the ages had their life mean more to society/civilisation from dying rather than when living. The obvious example is Jesus Christ. But who else?

Avoid suggesting artists/painters etc who's works are worth more when they die anyway.

Boston

Charlie, sure he was a saint after he died.

WindSock

That ecstasy one. Leah Bates or something. Proved not the myth of ODing on water.

brianthebard

Jesus' death meant nothing until he was resurrected though. Personally I'm against the idea that martyrdom makes a person's life more meaningful. Is there another way for life to mean more in death apart from that?

Tak3n

jesus is real? wtf!? i thought he was like santa or the easter bunny!

Kinetic^

Bosco........RIP

Photi

Franz Ferdinand

Binomate

Curt Cobain, Tupac Shakur and John Lenon would be pretty obvious in my books as well.

brianthebard

Photi wrote:

Franz Ferdinand

If he hadn't been shot someone else who have been. :rolleyes:

Gazza22

Anne Frank comes to mind. Her thoughts contained in her diary have a universal appeal now.

the_syco

Hitler. Him dying helped stop WW2 in a big way.

WindSock

Marilyn Monroe, JFK all icons because they died young and beautiful.

runswithascript

boreds wrote:

Marilyn Monroe, JFK all icons because they died young and beautiful.

JFK is one of my heroes, they shot him because he was going to change the world and bring about peace in his time

'we can no longer impose a Pax Americana on the world'

Also, the 9/11 hijackers are the most recent people whose lives meant more in death.

Sangre

Those lads who started some kind of revolution thing in Ireland back in the day.

simu

Look, we're all special in our own special ways tbh. So the death of any fellow human diminishes us all as ole John Donne said.

No man is an island, entire of itself
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee.

brianthebard

Ah metaphysics....reminds me of a simpler time.

Also I would nominate Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Ché-important socialist figures in their lifetimes, but their deaths elevated them to icon status.

runswithascript

Kenny 5 wrote:

Bosco........RIP

Yes, but I felt betrayed when I was old enough to realise it was reruns every year. I mean how was I supposed to do my Junior Cert with that on my mind?

simu wrote:

as ole John Donne said.

that poem.

Caliden

Che Guevara

biko

Bobby

Donegal Lass

eva cassidy

Femelade

Michael Collins

Dragan

the_syco wrote:

Hitler. Him dying helped stop WW2 in a big way.

The war was, in effect, already over.

Him dying simply showed the world that if you sit on your hold long enough your gonna let 6 million people die and the guy who caused it can escape justice.

skywalker

Malcolm X.

xzanti

Van Gogh

baztard

Westlife - far more valuable to us dead than alive, as we wont have to listen to them.

Marksie

Leonidas

Kinetic^

dusf wrote:

they shot him because he was going to change the world and bring about peace in his time

You are joking right? The only thing seperating JFK from George W. Bush is the fact that JFK had some good speeches.

MikeHoncho

Hendrix.

Or Mama Cass - she showed us the dangers of ham sandwich abuse.

AnonoBoy

brianthebard wrote:

If he hadn't been shot someone else who have been. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry. I've read your post three times now and I still can't understand what you're trying to say.

The rolleyes at the end just adds to the confusion.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Kiith

Kenny 5 wrote:

You are joking right? The only thing seperating JFK from George W. Bush is the fact that JFK had some good speeches.

Ya, but he was way cooler.

Kinetic^

Kiith wrote:

Ya, but he was way cooler.

Hey I agree with ya there but he wasn't exactly a good president.

runswithascript

You don't think he was going to make progress on peace in the world?

brianthebard

dusf wrote:

You don't think he was going to make progress on peace in the world?

He didn't stop the Vietnam war, so no. Actually, can we get a reason behind people's nominations? JFK's life meant feck all after he died, except to conspiracy theorists imo.

Femelade

dusf wrote:

You don't think he was going to make progress on peace in the world?

The fecking Irish loved him, pictures of him up next to the pope..

runswithascript

It remains a point of controversy among historians whether or not Vietnam would have escalated to the point it did had Kennedy served out his full term and possibly been re-elected in 1964. Fueling this speculation are statements made by Kennedy's and Johnson's Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara that Kennedy was strongly considering pulling out of Vietnam after the 1964 election. Additional evidence is Kennedy's National Security Action Memorandum (NSAM) #263 on October 11 that gave the order for withdrawal of 1,000 military personnel by the end of 1963. Nevertheless, given the stated reason for the overthrow of the Diem government, such action would have been a dramatic policy reversal, but Kennedy was generally moving in a less hawkish direction in the Cold War since his acclaimed speech about World Peace at American University the previous June 10.

I'm pretty sure that's the one where he mentions wanting to no longer 'impose a Pax Americana on the world'.

po0k

Dragan wrote:

The war was, in effect, already over.

Him dying simply showed the world that if you sit on your hold long enough your gonna let 6 million people die and the guy who caused it can escape justice.

True, however:

"The Holocaust is the term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the Nazi regime in Germany led by Adolf Hitler. [1] Other groups were also persecuted and killed by the regime, including 220,000 Sinti and Roma in the Great Devouring, the Porajmos. Earlier, disabled people were killed for eugenic reasons in Action T4. Other victims were homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Soviet POWs, Polish citizens, and political prisoners. [2][3] Taking into account all the victims of Nazi persecution, the death toll rises considerably; estimates generally place the total number of victims at nine to 11 million.[4]"

So the other 3million+ lives extinguished weren't abhorrent enough to warrant attention?

To say nothing of the Turkish genocide against Albanians at the start of the 20th Century.

Just a personal gripe.


OT: Tankman (if you accept that he is dead)

brianthebard

dusf wrote:

I'm pretty sure that's the one where he mentions wanting to no longer 'impose a Pax Americana on the world'.

Thats a speech. Show me policy changes. He allowed the bay of pigs to go ahead, which I will accept was not planned during his term, but he could still have prevented it. There were US troops in Vietnam from 1960 onwards-Kennedy had plenty of time to recall them from their missions but failed to do so.

brianthebard

SyxPak wrote:

True, however:

"The Holocaust is the term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the Nazi regime in Germany led by Adolf Hitler. [1] Other groups were also persecuted and killed by the regime, including 220,000 Sinti and Roma in the Great Devouring, the Porajmos. Earlier, disabled people were killed for eugenic reasons in Action T4. Other victims were homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Soviet POWs, Polish citizens, and political prisoners. [2][3] Taking into account all the victims of Nazi persecution, the death toll rises considerably; estimates generally place the total number of victims at nine to 11 million.[4]"

So the other 3million+ lives extinguished weren't abhorrent enough to warrant attention?

To say nothing of the Turkish genocide against Albanians at the start of the 20th Century.

Just a personal gripe.


OT: Tankman (if you accept that he is dead)

What Albanian genocide? I think friend that you mean Armenian. Also, as my history lecture said, Gypsys don't write history. But there were and still are a large amount of historians who were Jewish and who turned their attention to the holocaust for obvious reasons.

Kinetic^

brianthebard wrote:

Thats a speech. Show me policy changes. He allowed the bay of pigs to go ahead, which I will accept was not planned during his term, but he could still have prevented it. There were US troops in Vietnam from 1960 onwards-Kennedy had plenty of time to recall them from their missions but failed to do so.

LOL, he agreed to take them out but he sent more in :rolleyes:

People hold him in such high esteem, most of them don't know anything about his poor decision making skills though.

I like his speeches but that's about it.

brianthebard

Kenny 5 wrote:

LOL, he agreed to take them out but he sent more in :rolleyes:

People hold him in such high esteem, most of them don't know anything about his poor decision making skills though.

I like his speeches but that's about it.

Agree absolutely. I studied American history last year and he did feck all while in office. If he hadn't been shot he would be considered one of the worst presidents the US had imo.

Kinetic^

brianthebard wrote:

Agree absolutely. I studied American history last year and he did feck all while in office. If he hadn't been shot he would be considered one of the worst presidents the US had imo.

*high five*

He was prepped for presidency not too long after his brother passed. Forced his way into the army to look good, faked medical. Had severe back trouble, as in could barely walk without the use of drugs..........but still managed to go out and commit adultery on a daily basis.

A good all round role model!!!

TerrorFirmer

SyxPak wrote:

True, however:

"The Holocaust is the term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the Nazi regime in Germany led by Adolf Hitler. [1] Other groups were also persecuted and killed by the regime, including 220,000 Sinti and Roma in the Great Devouring, the Porajmos. Earlier, disabled people were killed for eugenic reasons in Action T4. Other victims were homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Soviet POWs, Polish citizens, and political prisoners. [2][3] Taking into account all the victims of Nazi persecution, the death toll rises considerably; estimates generally place the total number of victims at nine to 11 million.[4]"

So the other 3million+ lives extinguished weren't abhorrent enough to warrant attention?

To say nothing of the Turkish genocide against Albanians at the start of the 20th Century.

Not to mention that although Stalins policys were more politically then racially motivated he was essentially just as bad as Hitler, if at least alot smarter. His premature death would have saved almost equal amounts of lives as Hitlers would have.

Also it's Armenians not Albanians.

monkeyfudge

Kenny 5 wrote:

*high five*

He was prepped for presidency not too long after his brother passed. Forced his way into the army to look good, faked medical. Had severe back trouble, as in could barely walk without the use of drugs..........but still managed to go out and commit adultery on a daily basis.

A good all round role model!!!

He's like Bill Clinton and George W Bush all rolled into one.

Kinetic^

monkeyfudge wrote:

He's like Bill Clinton and George W Bush all rolled into one.

Genius sir!!!

Ghost Train

Lucy (Australopithecus)

Archeron

John Frog Ward

brianthebard

eolhc wrote:

Lucy (Australopithecus)

Lolz good answer. I love how they say remarkably near complete and there's about a quarter of a skeleton there....

r3nu4l

marksuttonie wrote:

Leonidas

Leonidas is dead? AAaaarrrghhhHHH! What am I going to do for luxurious chocolates from now on?

Wait, this Leonidas? Phew! Had me going there for a minute

Erm, I would say Ché Guevara and Kurt Cobain, their deaths have meant that countless sweatshops all over Asia are working day and night to produce T-shirts with their images on them.

The irony is that all the muppets who buy Ché T-shirts obviously don't have a clue about what he stood for in life if they are buying T-shirts with his image that were produced in these factories. If you open up his coffin folks, you'll see him spinning* in it!


*not on an exercise bike, I didn't mean that kind fo spinning!

Mrs. MacGyver

Femmy wrote:

Michael Collins

Definately Michael Collins!

Also Kevin Barry (he was an 18th yr old med student but is only remembered after he died),

Emily Davidson - womens lib woman who threw herself in front of the kings horse for womens suffrage movement.

brianthebard

Mrs. MacGyver wrote:

Definately Michael Collins!

why does his life mean more in death than in living?