Atheists Out!!

JimiTime

Thought that'd get ur attention. I am just seeing if there is a way to get a christian only discussion thread, or if there is a way of putting a prefix in a thread to have it, christian only. Maybe including in the charter that if an atheist posts on such a thread its not alowed etc.
The reason i bring this up is that it really has turned into us and them here IMO. Learning for me personally has been lost here. I understand that I can just stop posting myself, but feel its a shame. Having perused the Atheists thread, it further convinced me of the pointless exercises here in the Christian forum of arguing with 'most' of them. Sometimes threads I see with potential are turned into farce by, once again, some 'prove God' type scenario.
I know that the ateist community is welcomed here, but maybe its time to start thinking of the needs of the Christian folk and have certain threads that are out of bounds for atheists. I'm just putting it out there to see what others reckon. Am I over reacting? or is it a valid point.

philologos

I agree 100%, us Christians need to talk about our faith without interruptions from atheists. Of course only in certain threads.

hairyheretic

Post a request in the thread inself. I'm sure most of the regulars would be civil enough to respect it.

Son Goku

You could just put a tag on it like we do in the physics forum for technical threads. Something like [Christians only], although we changed the charter a little bit for it.

However I will use Jack from Lost to indicate how alone you will be without us.

JimiTime

Son Goku wrote:

You could just put a tag on it like we do in the physics forum for technical threads. Something like [Christians only], although we changed the charter a little bit for it.

However I will use Jack from Lost to indicate how alone you will be without us.

You may be right, but we know where to find you.:)

Dave!

This has been discussed before
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055025330

Your posts should be open to being challenged, as this is a public forum. Feel free to come into the Atheism forum and challenge our posts.

philologos

I'd prefer to let you discuss your own issues, but I'd like freedom for Christians to have some threads to discuss things that concern them as Christians.

lostexpectation

rubbish, rubbish rubbish, are you going to test everybody christianity credentials before they can post, show us a thread (apart from evolution/creation nonsense ones) where the thread flow has been disrupted by atheists poster.

as has been said a dozen times most of those who hang out on atheism board are more of capable of having discssion about christianity(catholicism)

JimiTime

Jakkass wrote:

I'd prefer to let you discuss your own issues, but I'd like freedom for Christians to have some threads to discuss things that concern them as Christians.

Yep. thats what I would like. I know its a public forum, but the soccer guys have restrictions, and the muslims are very strict. I am merely appealing for this for the sake of my own Christian education. To interact with other christians and hear their interpretations and beliefs, while giving my own and getting more enlightened. It hasn't been happening in the current, 'atheists v christians' scenarios, so I would just like to see if others feel the same. Jackass agrees, lets see if others do. If the majority of Christians on the forum agree, I don't see an issue.If they don't, then so be it.

JimiTime

lostexpectation wrote:

rubbish, rubbish rubbish, are you going to test everybody christianity credentials before they can post, show us a thread (apart from evolution/creation nonsense ones) where the thread flow has been disrupted by atheists poster.

as hass been siad a dozen times most of those who hang out on atheism board are more of capable of having discssion about christianity(catholicism)

I'm not going to go into it and maybe make Irony from this thread, but its simple. See what the christian posters think and take it from there. Don't be so upset, its just sometimes you just want Christian comment.

Dave!

Post a thread asking Christians about interpretations of a passage. Most atheists won't bother posting, or else will suggest, for the sake of educating themselves, their own interpretations (we can still try to interpret what was meant without believing it). If it starts to degenerate into something other than what the thread was intended for, then it's up to the mods in the forum to set it back on the right track and punish anybody who continues to steer it off course.

In my experience, that is what has been happening. What I don't appreciate however, is when somebody posts saying that they're confused about their religion, and I give a perfectly unbiased atheist perspective (I suggested the OP reads up on all religions and goes for the one they feel makes the most sense) -- and then I get attacked for trying to give another soul to satan, or whatever.

At the end of the day, a thread has a purpose, and if it starts to go off topic, then the mods should be setting it back on course.

raido9

JimiTime wrote:

Yep. thats what I would like. I know its a public forum, but the soccer guys have restrictions, and the muslims are very strict. I am merely appealing for this for the sake of my own Christian education. To interact with other christians and hear their interpretations and beliefs, while giving my own and getting more enlightened. It hasn't been happening in the current, 'atheists v christians' scenarios, so I would just like to see if others feel the same. Jackass agrees, lets see if others do. If the majority of Christians on the forum agree, I don't see an issue.If they don't, then so be it.

From reading your post it seems like you feel you can only "get more enlightened" from exchanging beliefs with other Christians. If this is the case I feel sorry for you. There is more to be learned from talking to people with conflicting views to your own than people with the same viewpoint imo.

philologos

raido9 wrote:

From reading your post it seems like you feel you can only "get more enlightened" from exchanging beliefs with other Christians. If this is the case I feel sorry for you. There is more to be learned from talking to people with conflicting views to your own than people with the same viewpoint imo.

It's not that one can't learn from atheists. But when you are a Christian, you are more likely to learn more about your faith from a fellow Christian rather than an Atheist.

PoleStar

JimiTime wrote:

Yep. thats what I would like. I know its a public forum, but the soccer guys have restrictions, and the muslims are very strict. I am merely appealing for this for the sake of my own Christian education. To interact with other christians and hear their interpretations and beliefs, while giving my own and getting more enlightened. It hasn't been happening in the current, 'atheists v christians' scenarios, so I would just like to see if others feel the same. Jackass agrees, lets see if others do. If the majority of Christians on the forum agree, I don't see an issue.If they don't, then so be it.

FYI, there aren't many restrictions on the Islam board. And actually the Muslims are perfectly happy to try and prove the logic of their opinions.

Limiting the section to Christians would be a loss of freedom of speech.

And again, mirroring what others said, while I do frequently check out the Christian forum, and sometimes reply to certain threads such as those on creationism etc, I will not reply or even probably bother to read threads relating to doctrinal issues for example or other issues such as this.

raido9

Jakkass wrote:

It's not that one can't learn from atheists. But when you are a Christian, you are more likely to learn more about your faith from a fellow Christian rather than an Atheist.

When you say 'your faith', you mean Christian faith?

I just think one shouldn't restrict themselves to one faith when trying to reach an enlightened state (or whatever you want to call it). Why not open yourself up to all faiths/ influences? You will surely learn more and quicker if your learning from a greater source of information.

I'll drop this now as I know it wont be agreed on and it will spiral into the kind of thread this thread is giving out about.

philologos

This is the Christianity forum... if one want's to discuss other faiths, they can go into their relevant fora.

raido9

Jakkass wrote:

This is the Christianity forum... if one want's to discuss other faiths, they can go into their relevant fora.

Wasn't talking about the forum, talking about in general

philologos

They have the option to do that, through the other religion and spirituality forums.

Fanny Cradock

I've only been around the Christianity forum for a short time; the Creation thread scared me off. It is clear, though, from my brief time here that threads often do descend into pointless argument. As an example, I look at the 'Christianity and sex' thread. I started this because it is something that is important to me - it's an area that I struggle with in my faith. Comments from the likes of Wicknight are appreciated because they are well reasoned and constructive - in the sense that it is often good to hear a different point of view. However, in the same thread there was a fair few replies that were nothing more than tirades against the Catholic Church etc., which, considering they didn't address the topic at hand, really had no business being in there in the first place.

I wouldn't like to exclude non-Christians from a debate, but I do feel that some of the replies are only slightly better than trolling (though, not necessarily intended as such). As was suggested, some sort of notification at the start of the thread or in the title, but the reality would likely be that of stickys - no one will pay them the slightest bit of attention.

I dunno, I've tried nothing and I'm fresh out of ideas :rolleyes:

Scofflaw

Fanny Cradock wrote:

I've only been around the Christianity forum for a short time; the Creation thread scared me off. It is clear, though, from my brief time here that threads often do descend into pointless argument. As an example, I look at the 'Christianity and sex' thread. I started this because it is something that is important to me - it's an area that I struggle with in my faith. Comments from the likes of Wicknight are appreciated because they are well reasoned and constructive - in the sense that it is often good to hear a different point of view. However, in the same thread there was a fair few replies that were nothing more than tirades against the Catholic Church etc., which, considering they didn't address the topic at hand, really had no business being in there in the first place.

I wouldn't like to exclude non-Christians from a debate, but I do feel that some of the replies are only slightly better than trolling (though, not necessarily intended as such). As was suggested, some sort of notification at the start of the thread or in the title, but the reality would likely be that of stickys - no one will pay them the slightest bit of attention.

I dunno, I've tried nothing and I'm fresh out of ideas :rolleyes:

Hmm. Some of those who post as atheists in the atheist forum add little or nothing to the debates there, and the same for some of the Christians on the Christianity forum - that's the nature of Internet forums. Of course, if you can solve the problem of trolling and/or pointless posts, there are a really large number of people who'd like to hear from you...

Seriously, though, in a Catholic country, you have no chance of not getting such diatribes, whether they come from atheists or otherwise.



cordially,
Scofflaw

Crucifix

I think DaveMcG has it. The only problems I see are when there's a question about scripture or doctrine and it gets dragged off topic by atheists stating their opinions. I think it's this off-topic-ness that should be focused on.

stevejazzx

What about agnostics, and those of other religons. Strictly just christians? Are you sure that's what you want? I have to say I find it close minded and quite frankly rather pathetic and I don't believe your motives of wanting some of kind uninterrupted purity happening in a thread. Theres a thread at the moment about favourite bible verses and as far as I can noone but christians have responded there. This illustrates that the atheists posting here are all well behaved and don't post simply out of malice or contempt. There is a great depth in arguing things out. It's leads to us challenging or refining our beliefs or at least the way we go about those beliefs. If this kind of cowardice is what you desire just add the atheists here to your ignore list, instead of suggesting a measure that interferes and affects eveyone, if this what all the christians here want then why a christianity forum at all? Why log onto the internet at all? Why leave your house, there are mean 'anti-christian' people everywhere who might not have the same opinions as you. Just lock yourselves away in sure bliss of heaven and wait there until the end.

Tar.Aldarion

The forum is for discussing christianity, not for christians alone. Anybody can discuss it.
I don't see many threads where atheists 'disrupt' things.
I also don't think it matters that you personally don't want an atheist to reply to your thread, it's not your thread. What if another Christian does want an atheist to answer.
Who here holds the views of all christians? Hands up? You there, just behind Leonidas? No?
/wanders off to make a 'no homers' thread.

philologos

If you only want a Christian's opinion on Scripture then what happens?

Scofflaw

Jakkass wrote:

If you only want a Christian's opinion on Scripture then what happens?

You ignore the posts from the atheists?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Puck

The best you can do is ask for Christian responses to your post and for non-Christian to politely refrain from joining in. You could also ask for "the Christian viewpoint" which would allow knowledgeable non-Christians the chance to post too but who might want to point out that they are not Christians for the sake of being nice.

As far as I know if you specify that you only want Christians to respond to your post at the start of a thread Brian has your back and will take action to keep it that way.

Fanny Cradock

Scofflaw wrote:

Hmm. Some of those who post as atheists in the atheist forum add little or nothing to the debates there, and the same for some of the Christians on the Christianity forum - that's the nature of Internet forums. Of course, if you can solve the problem of trolling and/or pointless posts, there are a really large number of people who'd like to hear from you...

Seriously, though, in a Catholic country, you have no chance of not getting such diatribes, whether they come from atheists or otherwise.


cordially,
Scofflaw

True, but take a forum like PI, any posts deemed to be unhelpful and off topic will get the copy and paste 'please take time to tread the forum charter' spiel. Again, if someone was to post something in the 'Man Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal... general chat and rumours thread' that is considered an outburst they will be banned. Finally, if someone posts a thread along the lines of a 'question for the ladies...' I would assume that that person is predominately looking for women's input for a reason.

Fine, if someone wants to take a pop at Christianity then they can open a new thread and the mods can decide if it is acceptable or not. My gripe, which is completely justified, is the whole axe to grind post that is barely related to the topic at hand and ruins the focus of the thread.

I personally think the atheists' input into the forum make it a more interesting place. And I understand that threads will eventually spiral onto a completely new topic. However, if the reason for this is because another randomer has a problem with the Catholic Church then it becomes very frustrating.

Zombrex

I have no problem at all with [CHRISTIANS ONLY] threads, and I will certainly stay away.

I would ask though that the mods make sure that things like science are left out of these thread.

No offense to the Christians here but most of you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to science. Some of you recognize this yourselves, some of you don't. But the main reason a lot of us come into these Christians thread is because we notice that people are posting either inaccurate, wrong or down right nonsense comments about about science or certain scientific theories.

Things like "evolutionists try to tell us we all just developed by random chance" or "the big bang said we all came from nothing" are simply incorrect statements. The people who make these type of statements clearly don't understand the scientific theories that they are commenting are wrong. If you don't actually know about something then it is best not to comment on it either way (I'm sure a lot of Christians feel that about atheists comments about their religion too)

I would also suggest that people don't make rather silly statements about atheists, such as "Atheists don't care about anything except instant gratification" or "Atheists clearly don't have any morals because all morals come from God"

Again, if someone really believes this then they actually don't know anything about atheists and therefore are not in a position to comment on a subject you don't know about.

If these two factors can be met, leaving science and atheism out of the discussion, I have no problem at all leaving [CHRISTIANS ONLY] threads well alone (though I might of course read them just for my own education)

Scofflaw

Fanny Cradock wrote:

True, but take a forum like PI, any posts deemed to be unhelpful and off topic will get the copy and paste 'please take time to tread the forum charter' spiel. Again, if someone was to post something in the 'Man Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal... general chat and rumours thread' that is considered an outburst they will be banned. Finally, if someone posts a thread along the lines of a 'question for the ladies...' I would assume that that person is predominately looking for women's input for a reason.

Fine, if someone wants to take a pop at Christianity then they can open a new thread and the mods can decide if it is acceptable or not. My gripe, which is completely justified, is the whole axe to grind post that is barely related to the topic at hand and ruins the focus of the thread.

I personally think the atheists' input into the forum make it a more interesting place. And I understand that threads will eventually spiral onto a completely new topic. However, if the reason for this is because another randomer has a problem with the Catholic Church then it becomes very frustrating.

I agree - but at what point is a hardline moderator defending the Catholic Church rather than quashing outbursts? Come to that, do we even have a Catholic moderator? If we don't, that's a little bizarre, but I don't think we do...so you would be asking for tougher moderation from someone who probably also has 'problems' with the Catholic Church!

We do have very mild moderation on these fora, perhaps because religion is so all-embracing that it's difficult to rule things out of court. Possibly a standardised request-for-intervention mechanism would do the trick (it has a certain fitting quality, after all). Say, PM'd complaint to the moderator by a balance of three posters - so if one poster PM's to support the 'randomer', you need four requests to remove him/her. Alternatively, an open proposer-seconder-vote mechanism. If you strenuously object to one poster's comments, propose that they be quashed. Get that motion seconded, and thirded, and alert a mod.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Asiaprod

Just to remind all, we have been over this before. It was agreed that if a poster wanted a Christian answer, he/she would state that in the post and the rest of us would stay out of it.

Scofflaw

Asiaprod wrote:

Just to remind all, we have been over this before. It was agreed that if a poster wanted a Christian answer, he/she would state that in the post and the rest of us would stay out of it.

I think Fanny's objection is actually more to the random posters who just post a rant. Unfortunately, these are mostly seagull posters, rather than those of us who have agreed to the 'forum covenant'.

cordially,
Scofflaw

lostexpectation

Fanny Cradock wrote:

in the sense that it is often good to hear a different point of view. However, in the same thread there was a fair few replies that were nothing more than tirades against the Catholic Church etc., which, considering they didn't address the topic at hand, really had no business being in there in the first place.

I

and how many of them were from atheists?

Asiaprod

Scofflaw wrote:

I think Fanny's objection is actually more to the random posters who just post a rant. Unfortunately, these are mostly seagull posters, rather than those of us who have agreed to the 'forum covenant'.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Got it. Seagulls are very hard to hit. I know Brian and myself have been quite busy cleaning up this type of stuff over the past week. In deference to the Christians that do post here, I will turn up the heat a little on what is acceptable.

Fanny Cradock

'Seagull' - I like it. You've hit the nail on the head there, Scofflaw

lostexpectation wrote:

and how many of them were from atheists?

I couldn't possibly know the answer to that. For the record, I don't think it matters what they believe in. There is no problem with open debate - that's how we learn. As an analogy, I think this forum (or should that be the singular, fora?) is like having a chat in a pub, everybody is sitting down talking away and then some randomer or serial axe grinder walks by, shouts an insult/ off topic rant and then leaves (but maybe only after a few more outbursts).

JimiTime

TBH. My main reason for bringing this up is quite plainly, I want to get my own house in order. I have Faith in God and Christ. I may have certain mis-conceptions, or bad ideas, and wish for only Christian comment at times to either expel or confirm views or interpretations. I am completely closed minded to other faiths, I have already had my search and I have arrived at Christianity. There was a comment earlier about feeling sorry for this or something, thats exactly what i want to avoid. I want to be able to have a discussion with Christians, without being distracted by, 'but God promotes slavery, and rape, and genecide' etc. However valid it seems to the poster. Remember Charter point 3.

3. Don't start off with a conclusion which your audience is bound to disagree with!

As I said, i don't think its too much to ask for some kind of prefix in a thread to be respected by those who don't consider themselves Christian.
Also, i seen a post by Wicknight here, saying that if such a thing happens can we make sure that science is not discussed, again, its like why are you so bothered? You think some have no clue, so be it. In the Evolution thread, you have gone the best part of a year arguing with someone you branded 'an idiot'. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if you know someone is an idiot, then what does it say for the folk who still post and post and argue and argue against him If you think someones an idiot, then you are practically saying that you are arguing with a 5 year old. Sometimes you've just got to learn to let go. So my advice to anybody worried about the name of science being blackened is........Don't worry. In the atheist forum I noticed a poster I think he was called 'Zillah', not really having much time for theists to sa the least. So what!

Or Maybe I should just get out more:)

Dave!

If people "let it go" with regards creationism, then there'd be alot of American children frantically trying to memorise the story of Genesis for their science exams. Thankfully there are people who continue to argue against it, in spite of the ignorance of their opponents.

But I take your other points. I would still point out that the onus is on the moderator/s to ensure threads stay on topic.

philologos

DaveMcG wrote:

If people "let it go" with regards creationism, then there'd be alot of American children frantically trying to memorise the story of Genesis for their science exams. Thankfully there are people who continue to argue against it, in spite of the ignorance of their opponents.

If evolution can be taught why not creationism?
Anyhoo, most of the [CHRISTIAN] threads would be about scriptural references as opposed to anything else.

Dave!

Jakkass wrote:

If evolution can be taught why not creationism?
Anyhoo, most of the [CHRISTIAN] threads would be about scriptural references as opposed to anything else.

Why not astrology too!

Fanny Cradock

JimiTime wrote:

TBH. My main reason for bringing this up is quite plainly, I want to get my own house in order. I have Faith in God and Christ. I may have certain mis-conceptions, or bad ideas, and wish for only Christian comment at times to either expel or confirm views or interpretations. I am completely closed minded to other faiths, I have already had my search and I have arrived at Christianity. There was a comment earlier about feeling sorry for this or something, thats exactly what i want to avoid. I want to be able to have a discussion with Christians, without being distracted by, 'but God promotes slavery, and rape, and genecide' etc.

Very good point!

Scofflaw

JimiTime wrote:

TBH. My main reason for bringing this up is quite plainly, I want to get my own house in order. I have Faith in God and Christ. I may have certain mis-conceptions, or bad ideas, and wish for only Christian comment at times to either expel or confirm views or interpretations. I am completely closed minded to other faiths, I have already had my search and I have arrived at Christianity. There was a comment earlier about feeling sorry for this or something, thats exactly what i want to avoid. I want to be able to have a discussion with Christians, without being distracted by, 'but God promotes slavery, and rape, and genecide' etc. However valid it seems to the poster. Remember Charter point 3.

That one, I think, was covered in the previous discussion on this topic. None of the atheists who regularly post on this forum can in any way prevent any poster from making such comments - they can only observe the covenant for themselves.

JimiTime wrote:

As I said, i don't think its too much to ask for some kind of prefix in a thread to be respected by those who don't consider themselves Christian.

Indeed it isn't. However, there's no point in someone joining an existing thread that has no such prefix, and wanting to make the thread retroactively Christian only.

JimiTime wrote:

Also, i seen a post by Wicknight here, saying that if such a thing happens can we make sure that science is not discussed, again, its like why are you so bothered?

I think you'll find that most of those who choose to defend science are scientists - I am myself. As to why scientists might choose to defend science...

JimiTime wrote:

You think some have no clue, so be it. In the Evolution thread, you have gone the best part of a year arguing with someone you branded 'an idiot'. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if you know someone is an idiot, then what does it say for the folk who still post and post and argue and argue against him If you think someones an idiot, then you are practically saying that you are arguing with a 5 year old. Sometimes you've just got to learn to let go.

It remains an interesting exercise.

JimiTime wrote:

So my advice to anybody worried about the name of science being blackened is........Don't worry. In the atheist forum I noticed a poster I think he was called 'Zillah', not really having much time for theists to sa the least. So what!

That sort of suggests theism is anti-scientific...if anti-theism is equivalent to anti-science. I'm not sure I would be comfortable with such a dichotomy.

JimiTime wrote:

Or Maybe I should just get out more:)

Goes for us all!

cordially,
Scofflaw

philologos

Citizen_Erased wrote:

And creationism also gives rise to the belief that the world is only 6000 years old. Surely no rational being can accept that?
And if you don't believe that then surely you shouldn't just be picking and mixing the bits of your faith that suit you

I accept that belief. Not that I care what you think.

robindch wrote:

If evolution can be taught why not creationism?

And why not teach astrology in physics class, alchemy in chemistry and phrenology in medical school?

All views of thought on creation should be discussed not just the ones that suit one camp. I don't have any problems with any of those disciplines, so I fail to see what your point was with the physics, alchemy and phrenology. Fair play to those who are teaching both Creationism and Evolution as they are giving an open minded look to students to how the world was created.

Citizen_Erased

Jakkass wrote:

I accept that belief. Not that I care what you think.

Now I am aware that the way I phrased what I said may have seemed slightly offensive or perhaps an attack.
BUT tell me if you dont care what people think then why are you here at all? And if you are applying that to just me then perhaps your not very christian , after all i am just a silly stray sheep just waiting to be brought back to the flock? Or is it that you felt silly having to accept that the earth is only 6000 years old and so felt the need to lash out?

BTW however did you christians let go of the fact that the world doesn't revolve around the earth? Or do you believe that too?

Dave!

Surely you're just saying that you'd have no problem with teaching the subjects robin posted, so as to avoid appearing to be a hypocrite. Maybe there should be a tarot reading class too? Magic class? Today's lesson, the rabbit in the hat!

Why would a school teach something that has no factual basis purely for the sake of balance?

Let's teach infants the different colours, and then the next day teach them that green is in fact orange Just, y'know, so they know the alternatives.

A dog is actually a reptile, didn't you know?

Scofflaw

Jakkass wrote:

Creationism and Evolution as they are giving an open minded look to students to how the world was created.

Leaving aside any other comment, evolution does not purport to explain the origin of the world. This has been pointed out repeatedly. It is like my saying that Christianity requires one to become a Jew.

irritably,
Scofflaw

philologos

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Now I am aware that the way I phrased what I said may have seemed slightly offensive or perhaps an attack.
BUT tell me if you dont care what people think then why are you here at all? And if you are applying that to just me then perhaps your not very christian , after all i am just a silly stray sheep just waiting to be brought back to the flock? Or is it that you felt silly having to accept that the earth is only 6000 years old and so felt the need to lash out?

I wasn't actually expecting to discuss this Evolution, Creationism prospect when I came onto this forum. I was hoping that we could discuss how things are done in the various blends of Christianity instead of bickering over this little thing again and again. I was hoping to discuss verses and our faith in God rather than arguing about something that we can't prove to you as atheists, again and again and again. Then more threads on Creationism appear when there is already a huge Creationism thread already. It does get a bit boring I suppose. To be honest with you, if as you said your post could seem like an attack, then it is you that is lashing out at Creationism no?

philologos

Scofflaw wrote:

Leaving aside any other comment, evolution does not purport to explain the origin of the world. This has been pointed out repeatedly. It is like my saying that Christianity requires one to become a Jew.

irritably,
Scofflaw

Big Bang and Evolution, the combination of the two. Excuse my mistake.
Funny that you say that, as to an extent Christians do have to become Jews, as they have to believe in Jewish scripture aswell as Christian scripture.

Scofflaw

Jakkass wrote:

I wasn't actually expecting to discuss this Evolution, Creationism prospect when I came onto this forum. I was hoping that we could discuss how things are done in the various blends of Christianity instead of bickering over this little thing again and again. I was hoping to discuss verses and our faith in God rather than arguing about something that we can't prove to you as atheists, again and again and again. Then more threads on Creationism appear when there is already a huge Creationism thread already. It does get a bit boring I suppose. To be honest with you, if as you said your post could seem like an attack, then it is you that is lashing out at Creationism no?

Well, the question there would be - why mention creationism? The thread is about how to have Christian discussions without "constantly being interrupted" by people on an attack vector. One piece of advice I can definitely give you is that pushing creationism will provoke every scientist on the board - and it's not necessary to discuss creationism in every single thread on Christian topics.

If you feel that you cannot discuss any Christian topic without dragging in creationism, then you pretty much have to live with scientists saying "excuse me, but that's rubbish".

If, like JimiTime, you "may have certain mis-conceptions, or bad ideas, and wish for only Christian comment at times to either expel or confirm views or interpretations", then I can certainly respect that wish. However, if someone makes factual errors, I may well comment if I know the correct facts. Creationism I regard as a mass of such incorrect facts.

Jakkass wrote:

Big Bang and Evolution, the combination of the two. Excuse my mistake.

Excused - I'm a bit touchy about the "shorthand".

Jakkass wrote:

Funny that you say that, as to an extent Christians do have to become Jews, as they have to believe in Jewish scripture aswell as Christian scripture.

Can I ask you a personal question, then....

cordially,
Scofflaw

Citizen_Erased

Jakkass wrote:

I wasn't actually expecting to discuss this Evolution, Creationism prospect when I came onto this forum. I was hoping that we could discuss how things are done in the various blends of Christianity instead of bickering over this little thing again and again. I was hoping to discuss verses and our faith in God rather than arguing about something that we can't prove to you as atheists, again and again and again. Then more threads on Creationism appear when there is already a huge Creationism thread already. It does get a bit boring I suppose. To be honest with you, if as you said your post could seem like an attack, then it is you that is lashing out at Creationism no?

Emphasis on the " seem " because any offensive lay in my on bad choice of words. I can understand your boredom with the same argument be repeated over and over again , but surely this coupled with your lack of caring would simply mean avoid giving people the argument they want , an argument needs two sides, and it will go away. So if you've had enough stop giving the response and you won't have to deal with it, otherwise you are really just fanning the flames. And by what I've seen , atheists only step in where relevant so it can't that intrusive.

philologos

Scofflaw wrote:

If you feel that you cannot discuss any Christian topic without dragging in creationism, then you pretty much have to live with scientists saying "excuse me, but that's rubbish".

You have already had the opportunity to discuss how loopy we are on the Atheism forum aswell. But we can discuss things without involving Creationism, I believe that the world was created but I sincerely hope that if I ever quote from Genesis 1 that it won't descend into a discussion about Evolution or the Big Bang every time.

Scofflaw wrote:

If, like JimiTime, you "may have certain mis-conceptions, or bad ideas, and wish for only Christian comment at times to either expel or confirm views or interpretations", then I can certainly respect that wish. However, if someone makes factual errors, I may well comment if I know the correct facts. Creationism I regard as a mass of such incorrect facts.

What one considers fact another considers false at times. This is one of those issues. We will never reach a conclusion on it because we both feel we are correct, so what is your aim in correcting us? I however would respect that when we are talking about scripture and asking about interpretations (even if for Genesis 1) that you will let us discuss it without it descending into an argument. Discussions on the Big Bang & Evolution and Creationism debate are fine on the thread provided.

Scofflaw wrote:

Can I ask you a personal question, then....

cordially,
Scofflaw

Depends how personal!

robindch

> I fail to see what your point was with the physics, alchemy and phrenology.

Chemistry has displaced alchemy, just as modern medicine has displaced phrenology for the same reason that modern biology has displaced the story of genesis -- all of the displaced narratives have been found to be completely wrong.

Would you like your kids (if you have any) to be told by their maths teacher that one and one is three? By their geography history that the world is flat, by their history teacher that Ireland was a colony of Mars and that the moon is made of pink bananas, simply because the teachers in the school thought that they were? Isn't this the worst kind of relativism there is?

And isn't it peculiar that so many discussions around here eventually end up discussing evolution/creationism? Perhaps that's the religious equivalent to Godwin's Law: maybe every religious discussion finally does evolve into one about evolution? Call it "Bob's Law"

philologos

robindch wrote:

for the same reason that modern biology has displaced the story of genesis

It hasn't displaced it if it's still to this day widely believed. Do you intend to make Genesis look like it's only compromised of the creation account by the way. It covers much much more than that and it would be insulting to any Christian or Jew (regardless if they took Creationism into account or not), due to the fact that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and the 12 Tribes of Israel are all listed there.