Higher Diploma in Commercial Computing

chamar

Has anyone taken or know somebody who has taken this course? Is it a proper course? What are the possible modules?

For some reason, I have the feeling that it may be one of those half-baked courses for foreign students so they can work/study in Ireland. Maybe I'm totally wrong?

http://www2.wit.ie/StudyatWIT/PostgraduateStudy/TaughtPostgraduateCourses/HigherDiplomainAppliedComputing/

Sully

This doesnt go down very well here.. there was a big debate about Applies Computing Vs. Commerical Computing.

A lot of people I spoke to who done the course think its a complete waste of time. I cant comment myself, as I decided against the course after the bad reviews by friends who done the course.

Personaly, id keep away from it. But, you are likely to find one user who will post here and probably die to save the course from bad publicity.

Just my opinion.

ec18

True i've heard only bad things about this course and the follow on degree, such as no lecturers available etc...

cyberwit

ec18 wrote:

True i've heard only bad things about this course and the follow on degree, such as no lecturers available etc...

There is a difference between an undergraduate degree course and a post graduate degree course.

The Higher Diploma in Commercial Computing being the former; there is no follow on degree only other post grad courses.

The above mentioned course is a conversion post graduate course
aimed at those whom already have an undergraduate degree in an non IT related area

Conversion Course is an indepth skills conversion course aimed at those who wish to pursue a career in the Information Technology field but whose primary qualification lies in an area outside IT.

Over 60% of graduates with higher
degrees have starting salaries in
excess of £17,000
compared to
37% of graduates of primary degrees.

Sully

cyberwit wrote:

There is a difference between an undergraduate degree course and a post graduate degree course.

The Higher Diploma in Commercial Computing being the former; there is no follow on degree only other post grad courses.

The above mentioned course is a conversion post graduate course
aimed at those whom already have an undergraduate degree in an non IT related area

Conversion Course is an indepth skills conversion course aimed at those who wish to pursue a career in the Information Technology field but whose primary qualification lies in an area outside IT.

Over 60% of graduates with higher
degrees have starting salaries in
excess of £17,000
compared to
37% of graduates of primary degrees.

And this has what to do with the original posters question?!

Come on. Your the only guy who comes here posting saying they like the course. Give your reasons why you like it

ec18

Aan i heard the bad report from people whi have followed on after doing the cert in commercial computing. One transferred into my course and siad that the standards expected from programmin assignments was much higher than that of the commercial computing

Sully

Ya iv heard similar from one lad who transfered from Commmercial to Applied Comp. So much so, he couldnt handle second year and dropped back to 1st year. Things are apparently a lot different, and much more organized etc.

cyberwit

The postgraduate degree (ie Forth Level) has nothing to do with the BS Commercial Computing ie you do not need to have BS Commercial Computing to do Higher Diploma in Commercial Computing infact you have to have a non IT related third level degree before you can do the above mentioned course.

rogue-entity

Sully, I am actually considering jumping straight into Applied Computing, mostly to avoid the business modules in this course. Personally, I dont dislike the commercial computing course, and I cannot comment on the Applied Computing course you are doing. There are some would would say the Applied computing course is too difficult, with the maths element of the course, this would certainly put me off because I am quite bad at Maths myself. However, Applied Computing was recommended to me by several graduates of the course.

OP, it pretty much comes down to what you want to do, career wise. Applied Computing is a straight-up Higher Degree course AFAIK, and you can go on and get a career out of this if you choose, most of the people I know who did it are all Systems Administrators managing computer systems for companies.
Commercial Computing can lead to a Higher Degree in Commercial Software Development, which again will lead to a career with a software company, such as Core (Irish software Company that produces the CoreHR system used by WIT). But Commercial Computing (which itself is a two year Higher Cert course) can also allow you to migrate over to Applied Computing anyway or into a third IT course (CyberWit knows all these details, and he will probably be only too happy to put these up, and point out my mistakes :rolleyes: )

sonners

I'm confused...the title asks about the H. Dip in Commercial Computing but you've linked to the H. Dip in APPLIED Computing. Do WIT do a H. Dip in Commercial Computing? Which one are you actually interested in?

Sully

cyberwit wrote:

The postgraduate degree (ie Forth Level) has nothing to do with the BS Commercial Computing ie you do not need to have BS Commercial Computing to do Higher Diploma in Commercial Computing infact you have to have a non IT related third level degree before you can do the above mentioned course.

Ah - I see where your coming from. Cant see it being much better if BS Commercial Comp. is poor. But, cant comment as nobody has gone this far to give me a review.

Sully

rogue-entity wrote:

Sully, I am actually considering jumping straight into Applied Computing, mostly to avoid the business modules in this course. Personally, I dont dislike the commercial computing course, and I cannot comment on the Applied Computing course you are doing. There are some would would say the Applied computing course is too difficult, with the maths element of the course, this would certainly put me off because I am quite bad at Maths myself. However, Applied Computing was recommended to me by several graduates of the course.

The maths and the physics is the hardest aspect of the course. Everything else is great and I think it would suit you down to the ground as your a big IT-fanatic. The reason why im sticking with it is because I love the course, and wont let a small part of it stop me from getting what I want.

cyberwit

Again chamar has asked a question about a postgraduate qualification (ie Higher Diploma,MSc or PhD), not an undergraduate degree what doe's the BSc in Applied Computing or BSc Commercial Software Development have to do with anything.

Chamar has a degree already he or she is looking for information on postgraduate study. How is discussing the merits of undergraduate degrees helping him/her, the only thing it shows anyone is that some in WIT can't tell the difference between the two.

ec18

higher diploma is undergrad

Sully

ec18 wrote:

higher diploma is undergrad

Nope, dont think so.

My point being Cyber, is that the Commercial Course itself is a right mess so showing the undergrad side of things might give light to what the postgrad degree would be like.

ec18

apologies your right it is post grad

cyberwit

Sully wrote:

Nope, dont think so.

My point being Cyber, is that the Commercial Course itself is a right mess so showing the undergrad side of things might give light to what the postgrad degree would be like.

You are not studying the undergraduate degree so you can't really commit.

The postgraduate in commercial computing qualification is aimed at those whom don't have an IT background. Don't know where you get the idea its a mess.

You cant compare a postgraduate course with an undergraduate course. The postgraduate degree has no connection with its undergraduate counterpart. I see that Applied Computing does not have a postgraduate qualification.

ec18

cyberwit wrote:

You are not studying the undergraduate degree so you can't really commit.

The postgraduate in commercial computing qualification is aimed at those whom don't have an IT background. Don't know where you get the idea its a mess.

You cant compare a postgraduate course with an undergraduate course. The postgraduate degree has no connection with its undergraduate counterpart. I see that Applied Computing does not have a postgraduate qualification.

It does actually it ca lead to a masters in networking or a generic computer science Msc. IT is done through the TSSG. Obviously you weren't around a few weeks ago for the postgrad open day. There is also the possibility of going into the embedded systems masters programme which works on new car technology

Sully

cyberwit wrote:

You are not studying the undergraduate degree so you can't really commit.

I assume you mean comment, and not commit? The reason why I am commenting and hold such strong views is because when I was in 6th year I knew I wanted to do an IT related course. I begun by looking at what was offered in WIT and narrowed down my choise to the Applied Comp & Commercial Comp courses. I then seeked advise from friends and family who have done these courses and it wasnt the majority who recommend I stay well away from Commerical - but all of them.

In addition, since the rise of the last debate several have contacted me in the college and passed comment on the course. Not everyone has or is pleased with it, and wouldnt really recommend it.

Therefore, taking on board all these summarys - I feel this gives me enough right to pass judgement, while making the point that I never sat the course.

Perhaps there is no connection between the two. Perhaps they are two different courses. However, the question was in regards to Commerical Computing and whether it be postgrad or undergrad - its always good to make the point that the undergrads course has not got the very best of reviews by people who have sat it and this may or may not reflect onto the actuall postgrad course that may or may not have any connections with each other.

The postgraduate in commercial computing qualification is aimed at those whom don't have an IT background. Don't know where you get the idea its a mess.

I was refering to the undergrad, not the postgrad course. I dont know anyone who tried the postgrad. Only the undergrad. As I said, while the question may have refered to postgrad -- I wanted to highlight the poor undergrad course being offered by the college.

You cant compare a postgraduate course with an undergraduate course. The postgraduate degree has no connection with its undergraduate counterpart.

I think I made my point very clear on why im showing (not comparing) the down side to the undergrad course. It may have some bearing on the postgrad, who knows. I just wanted to make the point clear to the OP in order to assist.

I see that Applied Computing does not have a postgraduate qualification.

As ec18 said - there are postgrad courses in Applied Computing. If you wish to find out more, please email the head of the course Mariead Meagher - mmeahger@wit.ie.

Now, may I ask you a question: Are you a student, past student, or lecturer of the postgrad/undergrad course of Commercial Computing?

cyberwit

I am well aware that there are postgraduate opportunities for Applied Computing Students but they are the same for Commercial Computing

M.Sc. in Computing (Communications Software)

M.Sc. in Computing (Information Systems Processes)

MSc in Computing, Multimedia and eLearning

ec18

They aren't actually to access those courses you have to have a Bsc

Sully

cyberwit wrote:

I see that Applied Computing does not have a postgraduate qualification.

I am well aware that there are postgraduate opportunities for Applied Computing Students but they are the same for Commercial Computing

Im sorry, but one min you say they dont and the next your saying your "well aware" that there are?!

Make up your mind. And answer my question I asked you earlier. Thanks.

cyberwit

ec18 wrote:

They aren't actually to access those courses you have to have a Bsc

You misunderstood the postgraduate opportunities are open to all graduates of the Applied Computing and Commercial Software Development Degree. You need a BSc Hons to apply for postgraduate study

When i said Applied Computing doe's not have a postgraduate qualification named after it.

rogue-entity

Sully wrote:

The maths and the physics is the hardest aspect of the course. Everything else is great and I think it would suit you down to the ground as your a big IT-fanatic. The reason why im sticking with it is because I love the course, and wont let a small part of it stop me from getting what I want.

I initially applied for this, and I had the points to get the course, but I didnt score hugely well in the leaving cert, and I suspect that a lot of people who had higher points then I, applied for the course and were given preference, so I went with Commercial Computing, my second choice for WIT. I was not made aware of the details by which you could transfer into another course if there were places free, or I would have transferred to Applied straight away. By the time I did find out, it was too late, so I decided to stick with it, since it was a two year course that I could then migrate into higher courses and get a Comm. Soft. Dev Degree, usefull in itself. Applied is certainly an option after this, but I believe I can only transfer into the second year of applied computing, with the option to drop back to first year, if the course is two difficult, which it may well be for me as I would not have a physics background to draw on, let alone the maths and more advanced programming.

ec18

cyberwit wrote:

You misunderstood the postgraduate opportunities are open to all graduates of the Applied Computing and Commercial Software Development Degree. You need a BSc Hons to apply for postgraduate study

When i said Applied Computing doe's not have a postgraduate qualification named after it.

Thats because applied computing itself splits into streams during second year, and your talking about the degree in commercial software development not commercial computing

And before you say it i know that it is the follow on degree course. Which means you cannot do an Msc after doing commercials computing

Sully

cyberwit; Stop avoiding my question.

Are you a lecturer or are you a student. If so, of what school/course. Theres no need to keep it a secret.

cyberwit

ec18 wrote:

Thats because applied computing itself splits into streams during second year, and your talking about the degree in commercial software development not commercial computing

And before you say it i know that it is the follow on degree course. Which means you cannot do an Msc after doing commercials computing

After a commercial computing student does four years they will end up with a Commercial Software Development degree that qualifies them for postgraduate degree entry, the same is for Applied Computing students they have to do the four years and get there Applied Computing Degree.

Commercial Computing Students unlike Applied Computing Students can also transfer to other colleges and universities eg DCU, UCD, UCC

ec18

cyberwit wrote:

After a commercial computing student does four years they will end up with a Commercial Software Development degree that qualifies them for postgraduate degree entry, the same is for Applied Computing students they have to do the four years and get there Applied Computing Degree.

Commercial Computing Students unlike Applied Computing Students can also transfer to other colleges and universities eg DCU, UCD, UCC

So what you just said is that after a commercial computing student is finished they have to go on and do a further 2 years study to be able to enter a postgrad course, right? stop repeating what i say it getting boring

cyberwit

BSc Commercial Computing - 3 Years

BSc Hons Commercial Software Development - 1 Year

= 4 years

Newaglish

So, this HDip in Commercial Computing... is it any good?


Not that I care, but i'm getting tired of this everlasting rant on the merits and demerits of two wholly separate undergarduate courses. While i'm sure it's a worthwhile debate for those who are studying or thinking about studying it, shouldn't you set up a different thread for it?


Incidentally it's hilarious watching each poster entirely misinterpret the previous posts!

cyberwit

Newaglish wrote:

So, this HDip in Commercial Computing... is it any good?


Not that I care, but i'm getting tired of this everlasting rant on the merits and demerits of two wholly separate undergarduate courses. While i'm sure it's a worthwhile debate for those who are studying or thinking about studying it, shouldn't you set up a different thread for it?


Incidentally it's hilarious watching each poster entirely misinterpret the previous posts!

Could not agree with you more. This thread was meant to be about a postgraduate course. I wonder are some of us aware of the difference between an undergraduate and postgraduate course.

Sully

So cyber agrees that its tiring, but continues on a rant anyway? How amusing. Also very amusing to see he is refusing to identify himself, its like hes afraid of being found out.

He rants on so much about Commerical Computing and tries to defend a course that has come across some hard hitting reviews which do not put it in good light. While its good to see someone step in and defend, its poor to see that person throwing insults, making stupid comments and refuse to admit fault.

The BSc in Applied Computing has faced an overhall in the last two years, and the WIT website seems very much out of date with information on both courses - so unless cyber has some inside information -- we need some offical new documentation to state facts (which I think ill go asking about, since this seems to have gone so deep it might be misleading).

The idea of pointing out mistakes in the undergrad course to those wanting to do the postgrad course - again, whether a connection is there or not - is to make the student aware of what they MAY or MAY NOT face if they join the course.

Applied Computing - is no angel of a course. It to has problems and im not affraid to admit or state them. It annoys me to see people who refuse to even comment on who they are, defend their course so much they think its the bees-nees and make a mockery of those others who try to bring light to a course thats apparently ridden with problems.

Ill have no further part of this debate as its clear cyber isnt going to answer my question, and its not even getting anywhere. Ill try clear up postgrad opportunites for both courses within the next few weeks. Just so we can be clear on that.

OP: Sorry for the topic intrusion, it was just a simple warning about a "lower end" of the same course you were considering. As I expected, it fulled into a huge debate and mockery thread. Its up to ec18 to decide if he wants to further aggroviate a guy destined to fight for a flawed course, and never back down. In the end, both sides have been heard and its up to those who read it - to pass their judgement and decide what they want to do.

Cheers.

cyberwit

With all due respects Sully I have not been the one whom has been getting confused and discussing undergraduate courses in a thread about a postgraduate course.
In fact you are the one whom started the ranting on about undergraduate courses I have simply been providing accurate information about a WIT postgraduate course to chamer without personal opinion.

Sully the only one passing judgment is you. I believe i have provided much more accurate information on the postgraduate opportunities then you. I have also not defended any undergraduate or postgraduate courses in this thread just provide the facts which are missing from your argument as usual.

cyberwit wrote:

There is a difference between an undergraduate degree course and a post graduate degree course.

The Higher Diploma in Commercial Computing being the former; there is no follow on degree only other post grad courses.

The above mentioned course is a conversion post graduate course
aimed at those whom already have an undergraduate degree in an non IT related area

Conversion Course is an indepth skills conversion course aimed at those who wish to pursue a career in the Information Technology field but whose primary qualification lies in an area outside IT.

Over 60% of graduates with higher
degrees have starting salaries in
excess of £17,000
compared to
37% of graduates of primary degrees.

run_Forrest_run

Just jumping in here now, I don't know much about this dip in commercial computing but I did the cert, diploma in Commercial Computing and then went on to do the degree in Commercial Software development. I graduated in 1999 and have found the course to be pretty good for preparing for the IT industry. I have been working in software development since then. The only downside I found was that there was no work placement at the time, maybe this has changed now though.

Just my tuppence worth..sorry if I have been of no help!

cyberwit

run_Forrest_run, I totally agree with you. Some people (Sully) are obsessed (Sully) with bad mouthing other peoples courses despite the fact that they can't tell the difference between a postgraduate degree and undergraduate degree and still have exams to do in modules from a year ago.

Sully

cyberwit wrote:

run_Forrest_run, I totally agree with you. Some people (Sully) are obsessed (Sully) with bad mouthing other peoples courses despite the fact that they can't tell the difference between a postgraduate degree and undergraduate degree and still have exams to do in modules from a year ago.

Some people (cyberwit) are a pain in the ass and are obsessed (cyberwit) with defending a computing course that has been rated very poor in the past by several people. Some people (cyberwit) are to scared to reveal their true identity and instead cower (cyberwit) behind their boards.ie username.

Some people (cyberwit) cant face facts. Also some people (cyberwit) dont realise the discussion with regards to postgrads course was held by another Boards user and not me. Also, some people (Cybergit) ignore the fact it was someone else who was confused with the difference between courses. I guess some people (cyberwit) are afraid to challenge the other person and ignore facts (cyberwit) and so think he is a tough man (cyberwit).

Some people will of course find the course good, while others will shoot it down. I have stated on many occasions that all the stories I was told are not good, and thats why I dont recommend the course. It is an opinion, which I am allowed to have but some people (cybertwit) cant handle critisim of something they are so obsessed with. I guess some people (cybertwat) need to get out more.

cyberwit:- You can huff and puff, winge and cry all you like - but I cant be arsed with someone who wont even reveal who they are. You are a clear coward and need to get out more. Nor will they agree the course isnt "fantastic" and will admit that it does have its downsides. I have no problem admiting for some it was good, for others they expected better. Pitty you couldnt just agree.

Also, you should take back the comments about postgrad. As you will see, the main discussion about this was NOT held with me. I took very little interest, and the confusion about the difference between the two was NOT by me. In fact, I was the one to state the poster was WRONG.

Good Day to you.

Sully

run_Forrest_run wrote:

Just jumping in here now, I don't know much about this dip in commercial computing but I did the cert, diploma in Commercial Computing and then went on to do the degree in Commercial Software development. I graduated in 1999 and have found the course to be pretty good for preparing for the IT industry. I have been working in software development since then. The only downside I found was that there was no work placement at the time, maybe this has changed now though.

Just my tuppence worth..sorry if I have been of no help!

The course has received a high negativity rate by people currently sitting and who have sat it in the past. Cyberwit has really been the only one to defend it to such extremes, its kind of freaky.

Im delighted to see someone else defending it, and your post has been helpful. Its good to show two sides

Cheers.

mayordenis

Sully the abuse isn't going to be tollerated but as the above post seems to of left things on a friendlyish note i'll leave it at that. no more though.

Sully

mayordenis wrote:

Sully the abuse isn't going to be tollerated but as the above post seems to of left things on a friendlyish note i'll leave it at that. no more though.

Sorry Mayo, im just defending myself. I do have issues with being accused of something I didnt take part in. I opted out of this convo until cyber kept making comments directed at me to get me back.

Perhaps he should also be told to lay of.

Anyway, cheers.

mayordenis

its cool happy days