advice and help for the irish open

semibluff

so guys with nearing the open and for alot of us this will be the first time to play a tournament of such large magnitude and i think there is no harm in trying to be fully prepared. so from those who have common experience in the WSOP and other large stacked tournies what is your routine before the big event . . .

everything as normal, no differnt preparation??

do you try and play alot more tournaments before it, and avoid cash (so as to get your mantality right?)

Any book/articles that could be of help to read before the event itself??

oh and any personaly advice on targets for day one - chips size u chould aim for / try and avoid getting below / hourly targets??

would be very interesting in hearing peoples opinions and it can only help each other.

ty in advance

DeVore

Dont go for chip-amounts-per-hour. They come... or you wait. Thats how deep stacked and long blind tournies go really. You can go for 3 hours doing nothing but folding.

IMHO hand values vary greatly from short blind structures. Hands like A9-AQ lose a great deal of value while 78s might gain a fraction. Medium pairs gain quite a bit because in general you are priced in to see a flop and if you dont hit a set, you simply release them.

Big pairs are questionable. Lots of action preflop is bad news if you arent holding bullets. Kings is ok in that situation but Queens can even be laid down relatively easily. I'd NEVER lay down QQ in a 20-30 minute tournie.

You can bet on the turn and the river! This is the single biggest difference really... in most tournies around the city, by the time you have sparred with an opponent you both have such a huge % of your chips in the middle and there is no backing away.
With 10k in chips, there can be sparring on all streets and you can still walk away without being crippled. Alternatively you can pressure your opponent and HE still can still walk away. As Sun Tzu says, if you want your enemy to retreat you have to provide him an exit.

In terms of preparation... its probably too late now but you should be in half decent physical shape. (No, "Round" does not qualify as a "Shape" in this instance). Sitting for 14 hours and concentrating is ungodly fatiguing. I've seen people simply lose it in the WSOP and shove in order to either double up or go home. The person who wins will be someone who can withstand the physical and mental pressures. Most people only worry about the mental pressures.

Hope this helps.

DeV.

carfax

semibluff wrote:

so guys with nearing the open and for alot of us this will be the first time to play a tournament of such large magnitude and i think there is no harm in trying to be fully prepared. so from those who have common experience in the WSOP and other large stacked tournies what is your routine before the big event . . .

everything as normal, no differnt preparation??

do you try and play alot more tournaments before it, and avoid cash (so as to get your mantality right?)

Any book/articles that could be of help to read before the event itself??

oh and any personaly advice on targets for day one - chips size u chould aim for / try and avoid getting below / hourly targets??

would be very interesting in hearing peoples opinions and it can only help each other.

ty in advance

Great Idea for a thread.

My plan is to actually play no poker at all for the next two weeks. Go into the event with a clear head and just do my best.

I'm not sure what level play stops at on Day 1 (prob about 800-1600 level or 1,000-2,000) but if I make it into Day 2 with anything over 20,000 in chips I'll be happy.

My main problem with other big events has been that I treated it differently to any other tournament I play so this time I'm just going to do like I always do, go in to win, play my best and not worry if I get knocked out.

semibluff

could it not be said that poker is simular to golf/football as in it is best to play and be sharp before the event??

i was thinking of doing the same stephen but i wasbt sure which approach would be best.

Dev appreciate the advice, its exactly what i was hoping for and im sure that it will help me and others.

Marq

I usually prepare for big events by desperately trying to scrape the buy-in together playing live omaha. Get a room at the hotel if you can afford it.

Targets are a really bad idea. There will be times when you have twice the average stack and times when you have half the average stack. What you want is to have the average stack when there's one player left.

Just focus on making the right decisions hand to hand, you'll go through good and bad patches of cards, so targets are just a silly headfúck.

Good luck.

Fatboydim

It's often said that you have to win your coin flip situations. The more coinflips you get involved with the less likely you will win them. So AK, whilst a strong hand, is still only high cards. If you must flip a coin try to do it against players who can't bust you. Just before a break or blind increase is perfect for stealing blinds. Smokers and those with weak bladders will fold hands that at other times they might call with. Of course if you get called your opponent may well have a hand, but at least you'll have a better idea of range.

phantom_lord

i'll prob play a couple of deepstacked stars tourneys coming up to it. maybe read hoh again :rolleyes:

I'm guessing 20k is the min target for the end of day one?



Plan for the day:

Step 1. Postion
Step 2. Pot Control
Step 3. Profit

semibluff

yeh shane i agree - the main thing early on is pot control in my opinion, esp only with top pair etc

agreed Marq, i no one shouldnt set targets and panic if not at them, but it is nice to know were you would wish to be - within reason. ideally id be delighted to finish day one with 25k chips.

is the boards deep stack on this sat? or what other deep stacked tournies could you play in prep?

shane i think live and online differ alot, esp when trying to get ready for a large event such as the IO

Clareman

Personally, I think 1 of the most important things to do when playing a deep stacked long distance tourney is to forget past hands, they are gone, I find they come into your mind when your getting tired, so advoid thoughts such as if I didn't fold blah blah I would have won that pot, I should have folded blah blah

phantom_lord

semibluff wrote:

shane i think live and online differ alot, esp when trying to get ready for a large event such as the IO

true.

although since I never really play tournaments so even getting in a couple of online ones is goot, I went fairly deep in a deepstacked tourny a while ago and the experience gained was pretty good.

For $24 or something u get a 5k stack with half hour blinds, in a night u can play the equivalent of a decent buyin 2/3 day tournament.

be meaning to get a live one in too tho.


do i know u btw?

58o

I pretty much have not been playing cash for the last week and dont really plan on doing so before the event(maybe one or two nights) . Might play the S.E deepstack game if it is on this saturday as well as that has an ideal structure to get into the right frame of mind for this event.

THEIRISHMOB

Walk in with the attitude that your as good as any other player in there and believe in your abilities.

Stay positive and dont push if your short stacked in day one, better waiting for a hand to do it with than panicking. You will find patience will pay the best rewards.

oooooooooooh and the power of prayer also sometimes helps

sikes

THEIRISHMOB wrote:

Stay positive and dont push if your short stacked in day one, better waiting for a hand to do it with than panicking. You will find patience will pay the best rewards.

dont understand the reasoning behind that, if you need chips go get them. Dont pass up any edge especially early on in a tournament.

Keep the big pots for your big hands.

Defend your button more than your blinds early on.

Dont bluff early, sit back and observe. See where your chips are likely to come from.

Attack weakness and isolate players who limp too much.

PiperT

In my opinion, it is important to be well rested. Fatigue is the ultimate downfall of most players in these marathon games. No matter how good your game is, one mistake is all its going to take to end the dream. Also, avoid stressful situations beforehand and during the event. No mobile phone and no other distractions. Stay in the hotel if you are confident you can avoid propping up the bar until the wee hours...good luck in the game and enjoy it.

semibluff

all taken on board and agree with all thats been said.

Sikes care to expand on the defence of your button?? would this mean re-raising if you sense weakness before you?? and hence would this not constitute bluffing?

being well rest is definetly a must

Captain Tom

last year i went into day 1 with a plan of maintaining an average stack to bring into day 2.i also planned on sitting very tight for the first hour or so to settle down and get a feel for the table.

then i got AA/KK/AK in the first level and was very active for the entire day without planning to do so.actually ended the day as chip leader(thinly veiled brag).

i dont think there's a point in setting out with a specific plan as the cards and situations that arise will be the main factor in how active/inactive you are.

getting a lot of sleep for day 2 is hugely important also.

sikes

semibluff wrote:

Sikes care to expand on the defence of your button?? would this mean re-raising if you sense weakness before you?? and hence would this not constitute bluffing?

when playing deepstacked, the loss of your blind is less significant than the loss of losing your button. So it makes sense to be protecting the button and position in deepstack rather than protecting your blinds. However as you get shorter stacked the blinds being stolen is of greater value to you than position because a) you cant make use of position because we dont have the stack for multiple street poker and b) because the blind represents a large portion of our stack, and therefore have to show resistance.

Im not saying you should go all out attack and make sure nobody steals your button, but you should be more concerned about someone stealing your button than you blinds in the early stages. If the player on our right keeps raising from the CO on our button, then I start 3-betting him and calling on the button.

semibluff

ok, thanks sikes

cardshark202

Just play good poker and watch the donks donate/suck out.

robinlacey

just try and focus on playing each hand as well as you can,really focus when you're in a hand.
also,try not to make (or at least declare) any decisions too quickly,once the pot gets in any way big make sure to take the time to think everything through before acting.

The Clamper

some really good advice here and i would like to thank all of you for letting everyone know your strategy for the event

what strategy will i be employing ?? havent a clue to be honest, i am in the middle of a confidence crises at the moment and am suffering from a severe case of a superiority complex, its so bad that i started speaking with a Cork accent the other day, with no warning or anything i started looking down at other players and having little or no respect for them or their ability, its terrible so it is and the sooner i get thru this the better

my advice for what its worth, ##

be true to yourself, treat every player as you would like to be treated i.e. with respect. imagine you are sitting accross from your granny and she likes you, so watch your mouth and be nice to those you knock out

remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint and you can only win the tourney when 2 players are left, not 602

imagine every player in the room is a great player and every move you make or decision to put chips in a pot must be the best possible decision at that particular moment. think thru B4 dumping chips into any pot for any hand

alternatively, you could imagine that every player is only there to make up the numbers and increase the prize pool for you, treat every player with contempt, have no respect for them or your chips and see how you get on, '

this 2nd option could mean an early night

patmac

Some great advice here, since qualifying three weeks ago I have been either walking or cycling everyday, played a lot of live games (normally play online) been reading HOH and 'Zen and the Art of Poker', my package includes expenses so I'm staying Friday and Saturday night in the Burlo (special rate €120 from PPP). I feel like I'm studying for an exam, but I've also identified a huge flaw in my game and have corrected it so I am feeling a lot more confident.
I feel like I'm studying for an exam. Also I was thinking of taking a sleeping tablet on the Thursday night or Valerian Hops (natural sleep remedy) to help me sleep, I hope the nerves don't take over.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Wreck

I would agree with a lot of the comments here - especially the pre-tourney preparation. I'm currently on a two week break from online poker, and only plan on playing once more live before the event. Not going on the beer between now and then either - treating it very much like I would a big match or exam.

In terms of actual tactics on the day, I really don't know yet and alot will depend on the actual make up of the table. But I am toying with the idea of playing very lag for the first few levels. This is not my normal game early on, but I just feel that its going to be very hard to get paid off when you get big hands playing tag. With a more loose aggressive style, I feel there is the chance to consistently accumulate chips early on. Still haven't decided though.

kebabfest

Wear an eye patch and tell Vietnam war stories.
Start sniffing, twitching your head nervously and going " I can smell Charlie " while shipping all your chips in the middle on the 1st hand of the day.
This should relax you and scare the sh1t out of everybody at your table.
dugggadugggaduuuuggggggaaaaaa

semibluff

cheers for all the advice everyone*, this is exactly how id imagine the thread going. I agree with lloyd that perhaps you do play your best game, and kk all in to qq loses, but if so c'est la vie.
the preparation is def very important - is the SE deep stack on this sat? if so would be ideal.
KP, MrPT, Roundtower, Shortstack, OllieBoy, 5spin5 NFR Ocall Dathio . . . and all those others who have played WSOP care to add to this?

also im very donfident that there will be prominent boards players deep in the tournie.

*esp u kebab man

phantom_lord

my preperation also involves watching this everyday until the tournament.

semibluff

lol


was hoping to see a few live clips added in their too - tillys check with the house of Jacks. or some of golds play in HSP

DeVore

robinlacey wrote:

just try and focus on playing each hand as well as you can,really focus when you're in a hand.
also,try not to make (or at least declare) any decisions too quickly,once the pot gets in any way big make sure to take the time to think everything through before acting.

QFT

DeV.

DeVore

I've given mine, but I wonder if others have differing hand values for long blinds/deep stack games as compared to the usual 20-30 min tournies.

I much prefer slightly whackier hands like 78s, 55, QT etc in position then AQ/AJ/KQ in early position. I dunno, its just that they either hit and are stealth "mugging" hands or they dont and you can either bluff/steal or simply release given position. This may seem obvious but its the main difference in the actual PLAY of the game for marathon tournies.
Saying "Play good poker" is not all that helpful really

DeV.

connie147

Havent much more to add to the above than whats already been written but here goes my 2c
1.-- Arrive early and find your seat well before the tourney starts.
2 -- Be confident in your own abilities.If its your 1st real big tourney, dont divulge that information at the table.( i know that sounds obvious but I saw it happening last year when a player was telling me prior to the start that it was his first big tourney and he was nervous and that he was going to play like a rock.I kid you not.
3 --Dont show your cards except at a showdown. Good players pick up loads of info from knowing how a player plays certain hands relative to position,etc etc, and often they're bursting to find out what your playing with, DO NOT help them by needlessly flashing an ace or something like that as you rake in an uncontested pot.
4 -- Some "friendly" players might approach you at a break and strike up a conversation and innocently ask what you had in a certain hand. Innocent my a r s e. Do not reveal.
5 --You dont have to build a monster stack.If you remain average chip for the duration of the tournament you can still do well.(it might be an exageration but if you get to heads up, how good is the average stack then?)

Theres probably more I should add but Im just home from a trip to Vegas and Im wrecked.Hope some of this is helpful to you.

Good luck to all boardsters playing in the IO.

phantom_lord

connie147 wrote:

2 -- Be confident in your own abilities.If its your 1st real big tourney, dont divulge that information at the table.( i know that sounds obvious but I saw it happening last year when a player was telling me prior to the start that it was his first big tourney and he was nervous and that he was going to play like a rock.I kid you not.

that's something i was thinking about, cause looking at me no one's ever gonna think that I'm a mainly online player who won his ticket for cheap...

RoundTower

The key to doing well in tourneys is about 120% playing good and -20% tourney strategy.

cooker3

phantom_lord wrote:

my preperation also involves watching this everyday until the tournament.

lol, quality

Goodluck2me

RoundTower wrote:

The key to doing well in tourneys is about 120% playing good and -20% tourney strategy.

your posts on 2+2 are much more informative/useful. Did the Davids upset you?

SIDESHOW BOBs

and get the first round in then as padraig parkinson jesse may roy the boy scotty gray et al arrive you will always be included in subsequent rounds.Start throwing beer mats at dave doyle, flipper and dave masters.

ideal prep , at least thats what i did last year , fcuk i was out after 4 hrs ,ah i remember now dont overplay ak

Tar.Aldarion

A.Clear your head beforehand. Jerkoff/sex.
2. Sing you got to pump it up with dave masters.
3.You have a lot of chips, people seem to have a problem letting go of things like jj/qq etc, let go of them easier. Even preflop. I threw away qq, twice in ten minutes, preflop in the nspc, but some people can't let go of things.
4. Think for a set amount of time about each action. Being rash can cost you all off your chips.
5. Eat well, and sleep well beforehand. Eat properly at a break.
6. The aim of no limit hold em is to give your opponent a decision for all of his chips.
7. Profit.

ocallagh

There is very little you can do to prepare for a tournament in terms of strategy etc (unless it was a speed game or something). Don't employ a strategy... incorporating new styles at this stage is pointless, just play poker. In fact I find whenever I try out a new style of poker I end up losing lots of money for a while! If you're a LAG player then play that way. If you're TAG then sit back and wait for the cards... the blind structure will allow that. If the cards don't come, don't beat yourself up. As Robin said, as long as you tried to play every hand to the best of your ability then you cannot do any more. Don't read any books on new strategy from now on. The one piece of advice I would give is play small pairs for set value from any positon in the first 2 levels.

There are a few practical things:

When you get thru day 1 you'll have cards swimming around your head at 5am so make sure you have 1 or 2 beers in your fridge for when you get home, they'll help you sleep much better. I'd advise not having more than 2 (kp will back me up on this one!:D )

The dinner break will be an hour long. If you wait for the clock to count down you will spend half of that break in a queue for food. I would advise going for food when there are 2 minuts left on the clock. You might miss one or two hands but as long as you're not ridiculously short stacked that doesn't matter. You'll get your food first and will have 45 minutes to go for a walk or whatever.

And apart from that there's very little I can advise on. I suppose make sure you drink enough water throughout the day. If you don't you'll have a headache after 10 hrs of play and the final 2 or 3 hours will be a nightmare.

Goodluck2me

good advice.

phantom_lord

ocallagh wrote:

When you get thru day 1 you'll have cards swimming around your head at 5am

umm, that happens me like everyday

Flipper

As for preperation, I think it's vital to be physically ready for the event. The day before the event, I try to eat and drink nothing but fruit and loads of water. I know it's sounds gay but a quick detox does wonders for your concentration and stamina. Try to eat well on the day and stay away from sugar as it just gives you highs and lows. Stick to bananas or something!

DO NOT arrive too early as hanging around observing all the bussle will probably only make you nervous. Try to stay away from the beer during play and if you make it to day 2, don't have more than 1 or 2 at the end of play on day 1. It'll help you sleep. I made this mistake in Singapore: With 80 left, myself, halibut and Marty Smyth were amongst the chip leaders. We decided to go for a couple of beers and ended up drinking until 4 hours before the commencment of day 2. Not a bright idea and WAS the reason I was eliminated in 35th. (Not concentrating and never saw a EP raise before I announced raise with trash.) Hali and Marty suffered similiar experiences. One of my biggest ever mistakes.

I think the biggest mistake I see being made is inexperienced players failing to adjust to the rising blind levels. I remember last year that 40+ players fell during the first ante level!

In the early stages (25/50 to 50/100), pay close attention to the hands as they play out and try to put each player on a hand. Watch out for overplayed AA & KK and also to the players that tend to check/call (most nitty players have a habit of doing this). Metally seperate the players into groups and try to focus in on the players willing to pay your nut hands off. As a result, playing suited connectors and all pairs (for set value) against these nits is very +EV. The bigger the fields, the bigger the percentage of weak players so pay close attention! Finally, I like to massively overbet my made hands as ALL amateur players seem to be allergic to folding (I think that psychologically they feel that they are being bullied and want to stand up to you).

Around the 200/400 level, I like to start getting creative by raising and re-raising pretty frequently. The positive results of this a two-fold: 1: obviously, you will build your stack through aggression and without showing down many hands and 2: your table image with be altered as your pre-flop raise percentage rises. It's most important at this point that you look objectively at what type of player your opponents are perceiving you to be. Use this "read" and play you hands accordingly.

Remember, tournaments aren't about survival, they are about chip accumulation!

From there on in, fortune almost always favours the aggressive so play your best TAG game and always trust your instincts. If you start second guessing yourself, you won't be playing your optimum game. At this stage, I think it's imperitive that you avoid all-in pre-flop situations without goods. You didn't bust your ass for 8 hours to toss a coin for the lot. Around bubbletime, keep telling yourself that there is only one prize: 1st place. Seperate yourself from toughts of getting a pityful €4k and destroy all the people that are thinking just that. Playing to win can be explosive but if you do break into the money, you'll have the chips and the momentum to carry you really deep.

In conclusion, tourneys are easy. Stay out of marginal situations and trust your instincts. Be aggressive and always get your chips in first!

Goodluck2me

Flipper wrote:

...............!

good post flipper

RoundTower

goodluck2me wrote:

your posts on 2+2 are much more informative/useful. Did the Davids upset you?

you're probably right, I think 2+2 has got much better over the last year or so and boards has got much worse, for what I want to read. I'm sure that makes me post worse here too. It's not you, it's us.

Goodluck2me

RoundTower wrote:

you're probably right, I think 2+2 has got much better over the last year or so and boards has got much worse, for what I want to read. I'm sure that makes me post worse here too. It's not you, it's us.

i just noticed that your posts on the 2+2 section that i frequent are very insightful and was expecting more of the same here. fwiw i think there are many more new posters here and the older posters seem to have taken a backward step, like yourself. maybe you would reverse the trend?

fabsoul

nice post. flipper

nicnicnic

Flipper wrote:

As for preperation, I think it's vital to be physically ready for the event. The day before the event, I try to eat and drink nothing but fruit and loads of water. I know it's sounds gay but a quick detox does wonders for your concentration and stamina. !

right!! that wasn't you that fell out of my room twisted in jury's at 7.30 am on the morning of the open last year;)


my advice is for novices to this type of event

play a hand early in the first level even if its 94os just to get you settled into the game and alleviate any nerves. for novices at a bigger tourney a bit of stage fright can set in and if you don't play a little pot or two Early it can seem as if your are watching the tournament rather then participating in it. dont get star struck if you get big names at the table I remember last year i had half my chips in second hand with Mike Caro and remember three betting Rob Young and Simon Tumper in the first level after they raised my continuation bets on the flop. your there to play and win let your table know your not there to make up the numbers and are not playing scared

phantom_lord

nicnicnic wrote:

I remember last year i had half my chips in second hand with Mike Caro

did u win?

nicnicnic

phantom_lord wrote:

did u win?

split pot i had 99 board was something like flop 672 turn 5 river 8 he had 9 4 os and had bet every street i did raise his flop bet. I knocked him out in level two:rolleyes: well he knocked him self out really

phantom_lord

nicnicnic wrote:

split pot i had 99 board was something like flop 672 turn 5 river 8 he had 9 4 os and had bet every street i did raise his flop bet. I knocked him out in level two:rolleyes: well he knocked him self out really

u flopped a house and he shoved? lol donkaments

nicnicnic

phantom_lord wrote:

u flopped a house and he shoved? lol donkaments

8k into a 400 pot and he looked so strong:)

Flipper

nicnicnic wrote:

right!! that wasn't you that fell out of my room twisted in jury's at 7.30 am on the morning of the open last year;)

He asked what he SHOULD do, not what I DID! Besides, I was gone late in Day 1.

I don't often offer Hold'em advice Mr. Power so savour it... :rolleyes: