BSG - S3 E20 - Crossroads Part 2 **Spoilers**

MisterAnarchy

Well its almost time so I'll start the thread.
Final episode until 2008.
Will need to be put in cold storage until then.

Peace

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Final episode until 2008.

Holy crap... thats a massive break. WTF like?

Ste.phen

They're hoping we'll forget how much half of series 3 sucked, i'll hazard.


Not a bad episode though, even if they got a little Lost-like on us and introduced plot twists that not only don't make much sense, but ask far more questions than they're ever going to answer...

DS

Pretty good finale I suppose, if not earth-shattering. Starbuck made her inevitably underwhelming return, as soon as she popped up on dradis it was obvious. They could have done the Starbuck thing without trying to pretend she died, that was just stupid.

The trial kept reminding me of the judge in Futurama... "I'm going to allow this"

BKtje

Indeed it was obvious once Lee made Draedus contact who it was gonna be but overall (well especially the second half of the episode) to me was just Woaaah.

4 of the 5 revealed (maybe5?)
I don't remember a better ending to a series in quite a while (even if most of the series was hugely underwhelming).

steviec

Well I enjoyed the trial a lot, and the way they dumped Balthar afterwards too, but I can't say I thought the ending where everything went loopy was to my liking.

I have no idea where they're going with the newfound cylons, 'Hey we all heard the same music! We must be cylons! So what do we do now? Ummm, lets do nothing.'

Ok so Tigh's speech was great, but the whole thing just doesn't make sense to me. As for Starbuck, I look forward to the explanation for that one. It was an interesting return, I just generally didn't like those scenes though because I thought that music was completely out of place for the usual atmosphere of the show, and the final CG where they zoom on earth just seemed cheesy.

I'm probably being harsh here, I did enjoy most of the episode a lot, the ending was just a let down, especially with so long till the next episode. I don't mind a 'what happens next?' cliffhanger, but 'what the hell just happened?' is a much more annoying question to be left waiting on...

BKtje

I just generally didn't like those scenes though because I thought that music was completely out of place for the usual atmosphere of the show

I thought the music was perfect for the end bit personally (speaking of which who does that version?).

I don't think the jump to being cylons was that big a one for them tbh considering they all heard the music, all came to the exact same spot at the same time and all are well aware that a "cylon switch" can be triggered at any time.

While the cgi jump to earth may have been cheesey it kinda does tell us that earth really does exist.

sioda

Great Ep cant believe its all over till next year.

ditto on the music that version was brilliant

jury is still out with me whether the 4 are cylons or not. Have been thinking for a while that maybe the cylons missing are actually resitance cylons that the others have manged to keep submerged.

What has me confused is that we have Baltar and Caprica with the kid heading towards 6 light beams but then only 5 beings behind they and we only have 4 characters from galactica who heard the music. So is it the missing 5 or 6 cylons??

Sad Professor

Very very very disappointing imo. Ron Moore has also apparently confirmed that they are cylons, kinda like how he confirmed Starbuck was dead. He's so full of s**t!

And Moore still hasn't learned how plan out a season properly. He's doing the same thing he and other writers did back on DS9, shooting their load in the first 6 episodes and throwing together the rest of the season. I'm sure next year will be the same, the first 6 episodes should be good though.

Still, it had it's moments though—I loved Tigh's reaction when he found the other 3 at the end: "whoa!" lol

8T8

I had mixed feelings about the music it worked and didn't work at the same time & was quite a departure from the normal music.

There are two interviews about the end of season 3 (one, two) doing the rounds with Ron Moore & as this is a spoilers thread here is some of the more interesting points; (edit put in spoiler tags at request)

* Final five are definitely different to the other cylon's – possible alternative faction ?
* Fifth member of five not revealed - but given the opera house scene with Sharon & Six very likely President Roslin is the final one (that or Starbuck).
* Chief Tyrol and Cally’s baby is a second hybrid
* Katee Sackhoff (Starbuck) is signed for Season 4 so obviously we see her again in some form.
* How the characters that where the final 5 originated as Cylon’s will be explained in season 4 & their agenda.
* Roslin has cancer again as the prophecy was that of a dying leader bringing them to Earth so it is feasible she is going to die near the end.
* DVD’s of Season 3 in August and movie/mini-series featuring Admiral Cain from the Pegasus & their activities prior to meeting Galactica will be shown in the fall to fill the gap between season 4. Though Moore mentions the full cast will be involved in the mini-movie so it must deal with other time frames from the Pegasus as well.
* Season 4 is very likely the final season where everything will be wrapped up decision is still in the air at the moment, first 8 episodes of 22 are laid out & confirmed we are in the end zone of the series – though left open how long the end zone plays out.

A theory I’ve seen is if the basestars in the end scene are crewed by the final five faction, though that doesn’t make too much sense given they have the same hardware as the regular cylon’s. However weren’t the cylon’s being led away by the radioactive fuel ship from the previous episode as that’s how they where following them ?

Also what was with the women leading Baltar away ?

Anyway to me that was a great episode making up for some of the more recent weaker ones but Jan 2008 is such a long time away I’d say Season 4 will definitely be the end



'I think the whole Starbuck is dead business was just a means to try and keep the storyline a surprise as everybody knew it was going to happen and it was the worst kept secret thereby ruining one of the big shocks for the end of the season, in what shape she comes back in I don't know but I'm betting in Lee's head/spirit form for season 4. Also in the interviews he admits they screwed up the last quarter of season 3 with the Sagiterran sub plot & then proceeded to cut it out of the episodes only making them poorer in the process but paid off in a better final episode at least.'

BopNiblets

OMG mega season 4 spoilers should be spoiler-texted please 8T8...

Hmmm, that was an ok ending, it was like:
*spit take* whoa whoa whoa...

Some of the court scenes were a bit boring (in the previous episode too, what is this, Judge Judy?), but Lees speech was good

DS wrote:

The trial kept reminding me of the judge in Futurama... "I'm going to allow this"

Hyperchicken lawyer!

Peace

Tigh and Adama were mates way back when so has he always been a cylon? Was he replaced? Does this mean the human cylons have been around for 40years?

Volvagia

I really enjoyed it, was a big step up from the rest of the season. January is a long time to wait though. I liked apollo's speech in the court room and the way Admiral Adama voted in the end.
Again as was said earlier it did pop up a lot of questions in a lost-esque way but since there's only probably one more season left i hope it wont go down that route.

I'm dying to find out the deal with the 4 cyclons that have been revealed is and to see what their plan is.
(Anyone else notice this episode didn't have a "The cyclons were created by man... they evolved etc.... and they have a plan" maybe they dont have a plan anymore?)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

200 and ****ing 8

that is just disgraceful.

bmwman

The last two episodes didn't have the stupid start (ala 24) it just wastes time. Very good episode, but not for Battlestar, Matlock has some great court room scenes but we (I) don't watch that. Maybe if it was called Star Galactica (lack of Battle) it would be good ha ha. The final 4 (5) bit was good, probably best episode of since 5. I look forward to seeing Cain etc in the mean time ( if it's true).

tvnutz

Ok...what? I mean seriously...what? How? eh...what?

That is basically what I was saying at the end of this episode. So all 4 of them are part of the final 5? because they hear bob dylan music...just weird.

Starbuck returns and has been to earth...

It will just be very interesting to see where it goes from here. I had a feeling they would do something off the wall and damn they did!

[EDIT] Ohhhhh...2000 posts

spooydermot

have to say I really enjoyed that one, I was foolish enough to watch the spoiler clip from last week - just couldn't resist.
The clip gave the impression that Adama was saying "we're cylons" - came as a huge relief when he didn't walk into that room outta the blue.

Tigh as always was fantastic.

Have to say as much as I felt the last few eps of courtroom drama and character building eps (with Helo et all) were necessary I would have liked more time to be spent on the big finish.

i.e do the courtroom verdict in the second last episode and then devote the entire ep to getting us to the payoff *and * giving us a little more to go on.
i.e last series the story got as far as actually settling on New Caprica and then the Cylons arrive.

As intersting as the whole Kain thing might be....it just feels like threading old ground.

Still the best show on TV.

c0y0te

What a freakin' letdown :mad:

The only good thing about this episode was the music in the last 30 seconds.

The rest was pure cop-out, start to finish.

If they wanted to stay gritty - they should have chucked the bugger out an airlock; it's not as if he won't be around again later now is it?

As for the whole final 5 thing.. who cares anymore? The plot has lost it's way, the writing has gone all fuzzy and the characters seem to have reverted to a wooden state.

Dammit all to hell anyway. I loved this show when it kicked off, but now it's just gone kinda bleauggh

Oh well - at least Heroes is back on the air next month!

Vokes

Oooooh, i liked this one. Courtroom drama was pretty good (nice speech from Adam Jr, which makes for a nice change from Adama Sr. doing the pontificating normally) and the ending, which was very different complimented it nicely - maybe ep1 next season will be a ball-to-the-walls action episode

Think its a shame though that Tigh may be a Cylon - kind've cheapens all that he's gone through and makes his character development seem pointless Hopefully, the writers have something special planned for him.


I expect, as mentioned above, that Lee is imagining Kara or 'projecting' or something.

The revealed Four will probably spend most of next season hiding their identities.

Also, expect the El Prez to bite the dust, within touching distance of Earth, in keeping with the prophecy.


P.S. I had a big-ass cheesey grin on my face to match the cheesy zoom-out and zoom-in to Earth at the end

gandalf

Ugh what a let down. Really really disappointed with that one. It seems like they are running out of ideas and Starbuck is bloody still alive arrrghh.

Fenster

I was thoroughly entertained, which is the point of TV right?

Mark Sheppard was fantastic in both parts. A little too shouty in bits, but he played his role well and his Dublin accent was actually fairly passable. I'm a bit let down by the writers and Gaius. They had his role played to perfection in the courtroom - being silent and letting those who knew fight his case, but take him out of the court and he's back to being gibbering.

Fie.

I'm not sure about the revelations of the final five. I guess it really boils down to how the writing team manage it, although they haven't done much to win my heart and mind recently, as most of season 3 was fairly mediocre. The cover of All Along the Watchtowers was fantastic.

tvnutz

gandalf wrote:

Starbuck is bloody still alive arrrghh.

Come on...you knew she was,you knew they wouldn't actually kill her off...destiny etc etc

spooydermot

maybe the music they're hearing is the Cylons illegal file sharing network

That said, the Cylons (or at least the final 5) must have already been to earth quite a while ago to in-bed a Bob Dylan song into Tighs head? If he's been in the service for 40 years.

jor el

Bloody hell. Bob Dylan is a Cylon, never saw that coming.

Quite a slow build up with the courtroom but interesting none the less. As said, Lee's speech was very good and made a lot of sense. Everyone got away with murder up until Baltar, because nobody likes him.

What was the story with all the ships loosing power, were the four new maybe-Cylons causing that? It seemed to end just as soon as they all decided that they were Cylons. If the Chief is a really one then I guess Hera isn't alone in being a hybrid. I couldn't help but feel a bit pissed off at Tigh being one though, bit of a cop out that.

It's sure to be a hell of a start to season 4, but I wish they had done some of this in season 3 instead of making us wait over a bloody year with nothing but the promise of a few flashback specials later in the year.

mcgovern

Now that I'm starting to catch my breath after that...WTF!!?!?
What the hell just happened?
Music was perfect though.

Suaimhneach

So enjoyable.
Suprised not to hate Lee in a scene, he wasnt his usual unbarable self in the court room.
Love the twist on the final five.
Rosilinn probably isnt one of em, she has the babys blood though... so thts whats frakin with her I'd say.
I bet its all a trick, like they're just being played with,t hey couldnt *all* be FFs.

Good music, most things tied up, and enough questions made to keep us interested.

Roll on 2008.

thelordofcheese

Hmm, i get the feeling that they might not be the final five, unless it's been carved in stone somewhere that i'm not aware of. I mean people have had visions and weird feelings before, the chief at the temple for example. Maybe it's something to do with the signposts to earth, not only do you have to find them, but you'd also have to be human. I'm just wildly speculating though, so i'm probably miles off.

Anyway, i enjoyed the episode, the courtroom bits didn't sag as much this week, and lee was pretty bearable. Not sure how i feel about starbuck being back, but as usual tigh was great and now baltar seems to have a new life as the 2nd [3rd?] comming of jesus.

And we've to wait how long? Bugger to that.

Overheal

Peace wrote:

Tigh and Adama were mates way back when so has he always been a cylon? Was he replaced? Does this mean the human cylons have been around for 40years?

they could explain that maybe Tigh actually commited suicide, and that the cylon model replaced him before he was reinstated by Adama. (Season 2)

Pepe LeFrits

Very good episode. I was a bit disappointed that the four of the five were so straight forward - no surprises there really.

What was the story with Roslin and Hera, Sharon and Six - could Roslin be the fifth, instead of Starbuck? Thus far, none of the characters from the original series have turned out to be Cylons.

I like the development of Tigh as a cylon - it'll bring his levels of self-loathing to a new high! Surprised that the president's aide is a cylon. She's a pretty minor character to get such an esteemed role! Not sure how I feel about Anders and Chief though. I always felt that they are two of the most 'human' characters in the whole show, so it's pretty funny that they are cylons.

Oh, and I thought Lee was fantastic in this episode. More of that please.

8T8

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Very good episode. I was a bit disappointed that the four of the five were so straight forward - no surprises there really.

What was the story with Roslin and Hera, Sharon and Six - could Roslin be the fifth, instead of Starbuck? Thus far, none of the characters from the original series have turned out to be Cylons.

It is almost certainly one or the other given the spoiler info floating around.

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

I like the development of Tigh as a cylon - it'll bring his levels of self-loathing to a new high! Surprised that the president's aide is a cylon. She's a pretty minor character to get such an esteemed role! Not sure how I feel about Anders and Chief though. I always felt that they are two of the most 'human' characters in the whole show, so it's pretty funny that they are cylons.

Yeah she was a minor side character replacing Billy (I think he left or was he killed off on purpose?) you can't really use too many main characters I'd say as it complicates matters even more. It will be interesting to see how Tigh came about as his back story had him fighting in the first Cylon war so this "new" faction of Cylon's must have at least existed prior to the Chrome toasters.

Over on Something Awful's forums someone talked to Jamie Bamber (Lee Adama) and he dropped a minor spoiler or two about the final five & few other bits.


DS the thread title has a spoiler warning so I assume anyone coming into this is appropriately warned ???

DS

It is almost certainly one or the other given the spoiler info floating around.

Does anyone else agree that this spoiler info should be spoilered here. It kind of takes the fun out of idle speculation when someone can come along and say "well so and so said this", even if it's vague or questionable info, it still should be spoilered.

geecee

Tigh, Anders and the Chief were all interred in the torture chambers in New Caprica... Could the presedential aide also have been interred?

I wonder were they implanted with something by Br. cavill - that would just make them think they are cylons?

Talisman

El Prez has another shot at being cured of cancer by getting a blood transfusion from Cally's baby. But for that to happen, the final five would have to reveal themselves.

Nukem

Loved it Loved it Love it!
Made up for the major dip in the series - com'on what a good ending to a series. A little telegraphed but that music was spot on.

2008:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
*Crawls under rock til then*

Barry Aldwell

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Thus far, none of the characters from the original series have turned out to be Cylons.

Erm, boomer.......

sioda

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Erm, boomer.......

Tigh too

BKtje

I asked this before but i'll ask again incase people missed it. Does anyone know what version of "all along the watchtower" that is? thanks

DS

8T8 wrote:

DS the thread title has a spoiler warning so I assume anyone coming into this is appropriately warned ???

That's not what I mean. My interpretation of the spoiler warning in the thread title is that it refers to spoilers in this episode, which makes perfect sense. I'm talking about spoilers for future episodes e.g. "X has been confirmed by X as the final cylon". I think it's pretty reasonable to expect this kind of info to be spoilered.

Pepe LeFrits

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Erm, boomer.......

Oh yeah, oops

sioda wrote:

Tigh too

Doubly oops, I'm losing my brain

Haruspex

B-K-DzR wrote:

I asked this before but i'll ask again incase people missed it. Does anyone know what version of "all along the watchtower" that is? thanks

It's entirely Bear McCreary's original interpretation of the Dylan song, sung by his brother Brendan aka Bt4. He has written a fantastic in depth blog entry about the process. I'd recommend everyone who was captured by the closing music of this episode to read it! Click

I really thought this quote was interesting:

I happened to catch Ron Moore in the hallway at Universal and, in a brief conversation, got everything I needed to know. I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any "Earthly" versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others. The arrangement needed to sound like a pop song that belonged in the Galactica universe, not our own.

CiDeRmAn

Lots of coincidences in that there Orion nebula, at least thats what it looks like.
Reckon that the chances of a bunch of Baseships and Starbuck flying amiably along is one straw too many, perhaps she hitched a ride, perhaps the Cylons got there first.
Loved the courtroom stuff, all it lacked was Matlock!
The standard of writing and acting is a cut above the rest, I remember reading Verheidens Aliens comics back in the day, nice to see he hasn't lost it.
But the 4 guys being Cylons, listening to earth music, and old earth music too, 1500 lightyears away, so if the music got there under its own steam that would place our heroes in or around the year 3500, always wondered at what stage of development they find us, will it be the far future, will it be now?
If the future surely they would have entered into our sphere of influence by now, unless theres nobody home anymore?
Not to worry, Starbuck will tell us.
Roll on 2008, can't come quickly enough for this fan. Wonder if the wife will let me rename our son Apollo, her name is Kara, seriously!

Vokes

CiDeRmAn wrote:

But the 4 guys being Cylons, listening to earth music, and old earth music too, 1500 lightyears away, so if the music got there under its own steam that would place our heroes in or around the year 3500, always wondered at what stage of development they find us, will it be the far future, will it be now?
If the future surely they would have entered into our sphere of influence by now, unless theres nobody home anymore?

Could be there is no one, or ever has been anyone, on Earth. Perhaps the rag-tag fleet is the 13th Tribe, (i think Head Six has mentioned previously that this has all happened before?).

Bacchus

Well FRAC ME that was some ending. Wasn't overly gone on the trial and I wish they had come to it earlier in the season but cool speech from Lee and interesting prospects for Baltar. Got lucky with those girls coming to his aid really and knowing his luck they're some underground clan of nymphomaniacs

How cool was the reveal of the song. After Tigh's first line and Anders (I think) second line my jaw hit the floor. What the hell were they doing singing Bob Dylan!!!
The slow realisation that they were all heading to the same room was great. Can't believe they're Cylons. Especially Tigh and the Chief.

The bit after they jumped to the nebula was a bit "WTF" with all the power going and such. Can't wait to see what happens with all the basestars there. No doubt the Cylons will want to talk or something, thus avoiding a big fight (and the end of the humans).

So, what is Kara? Cylon or something else? Somehow I doubt she's a Cylon. I heard talk before of a 3rd race yet to be revealed. Not sure how much truth there is in those rumours but if there are another race, bet she's one of em.

Once again 2000 and 8!!!!!!! WHY!!!!

BKtje

It's entirely Bear McCreary's original interpretation of the Dylan song, sung by his brother Brendan aka Bt4.

Ah thanks. It really is a greta version imo

Edit: Mid august for bsg season 3 soundtrack, i'd almost buy it just for that mix.

Riamfada

omfg


lost for words


...eh.... orgasmic

ps: best version of All along the Watchtower I have ever heard

GerardKeating

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

could Roslin be the fifth, instead of Starbuck?

but she did not hear the music, or did she?

lostexpectation

8T8 wrote:

It is almost certainly one or the other given the spoiler info floating around.



Yeah she was a minor side character replacing Billy (I think he left or was he killed off on purpose?) you can't really use too many main characters I'd say as it complicates matters even more. It will be interesting to see how Tigh came about as his back story had him fighting in the first Cylon war so this "new" faction of Cylon's must have at least existed prior to the Chrome toasters.

Over on Something Awful's forums someone talked to Jamie Bamber (Lee Adama) and he dropped a minor spoiler or two about the final five & few other bits.


DS the thread title has a spoiler warning so I assume anyone coming into this is appropriately warned ???

the missing link is what I presumed the final 5 were, an older version which should be interesting to see those guys reveal their older version history, but a missing link between the metal and the meats does that mean they are less human/meatbags then the newer cylons?

duridian

One thing that makes me question whether the four who now think they're cylons are correct in their conclusion is the presence of Col. Tigh. At the start of season 2, when Adama was in surgery post-shooting-by-GalacticaBoomer, the flashbacks showed a "younger" Tigh and Adama. (i.e., E.J. Olmos and Mike Hogan with makeup and hairpieces to make 'em look younger)
Anyway, my point - and I may be wrong - but I can't remember seeing any of the 7 confirmed cylons in a younger form throughout the 3 seasons so far and I always thought that maybe this was because aging would raise tricky issues about the whole cylon resurrection thing.
For example since the cylon consciousness downloads into an identical body, does that mean that all the Tigh models, including the "empty" models aboard a resurrection ship age along with those into whom a Tigh consciousness has been downloaded.
If it can age, then how old can a Tigh become assuming the model is never killed by unnatural means.
Presumably a model can't age indefinitely, what happens when a Tigh reaches a very ripe old age? Does the body die and the consciousness download into a baby Tigh body?
These issues make me doubt somewhat the conclusion that the four Bob Dylan fans drew.
Also the coincidence of the power failure across the fleet at the moment of epiphany. I suspect the four "sleeper agents" are responding to something more significant than just a cylon on switch.

Berns

Just wondering, can anyone remember the ship that had the virus thingy. Was any of the suspects around it at all??
Also how come it wasnt noticed when Baltar was doin the bloodwork. I know he didnt mention about Boomer and it did work for her, but surely he would have said if the others had it??
And the cheif suspected himself to be one for a while... Could now have been right :eek:

First thoughts was , Kara's a cylon, cause if she did "die" then that would be the only way she could have came back. Also showin up at the same time as the cylons....freak coincidence????
However think on that virus ship, Lee was there, have a feelin that Kara and Anders might have been too. So could possibly rule them out?? Anyone fancy findin out what episode it was

Berns

3x7 was, none of the suspects were there :rolleyes:

Talisman

The episode was nothing special. The trial was a joke. All the build up was for nothing. Conveniently, there was no Cylon evidence presented, detailing how Baltar had given them the key to the defense system of the twelve colonies. If that was revealed he wouldn't have made it out of his seat nevermind to an airlock.

I posted previously that I thought the show had lost the edge that it had over all others and despite the producers talking up the end of season they clearly have lost their way. The show has gone soft and dumbed down, most likely in an effort to get more viewers. Season 4 being extended from 13 to 22 episodes is a very bad thing - expect another 12 or so filler episodes next year.

Anybody else notice that in the final scene, the vipers are in front of the fleet heading in to the nebula, while the raiders and basestars are approaching from behind.

The only interesting nugget in the episode was the revelation of Six getting the urge to protect Hera with her life. The link between Hera, Six, Sharon and Roslin can be explained because Roslin has Hera's blood in her and taking the drugs again is giving her heightened sensitivity to 'out there' things. The last time she was on the stuff she encountered Leboen in her dreams before she actually met him. Most likely it's all leading up to the introduction of a third race and the link between the humans and cylons.

Of course at the end of season 4 the cylons and humans are going to colonise Earth and everyone will live happily ever after. Should I have spoilered that?