Friend's pregnancy

LegacyUser

My friend revealed to me the other night that she was two months pregnant. She has been seeing her boyfriend for about 3 months. She also told me that she is not telling him, as even though she claims she "loves" him so much he has no right to know. She is going to have an abortion (the third in her 22 years) and has asked me to come with her to England. Personally i dont agree with abortion, but none the less have to support her. The other side of the coin is that her boyfriend and I are very good friends, and have known each other for about a year, i even introdced them. I have pleaded with her to tell him, saying its half of him and he has a right to know she is carrying his child, but she has refused. Also this is the third abortion she will be having, and I'm quite saddened that she doesnt care about the two previous abortions.

I really dont want to go with her to get this abortion, I completely understand accidents happen, but the third?! And how do i get her to tell him because it is not my place to?

Nevyn

If you disagree then don't go.
It will not do you mentally or emotionally any good to facillate her.

DeBeere

Abortion seems kind of routine to her now...now thats scary!

I would say he should know, if she claims to 'love' him then she can't keep feeding him lies.

WindSock

I think she is right to not tell him if she is having an abortion. He doesn't need to know now and it will only complicate matters. He may not be fine with it either and at the end of it all, it is her choice. She doesnt need any more hassle than it already is, and she obviously knows the procedure and doesnt need to be guilt tripped into feeling worse.
She wants you to be there as a friend, I'm sure she knows where you stand on the whole issue, so I doubt she is trying to 'convert' you.
You don't even have to go to the clinic if you feel strongly, but it would probably mean a lot to her if you accompanied her over to England and back.

LegacyUser

'Hi OP I just want to point out a few issues that surround the abortions. Before she actually has an abortion there are a legal issues she needs to discuss with the nurse, then the nurse has a chat to her about the reasons why etc and make sure that this is what she wants. It is also compulsary to meet a doctor and chat about contraception this doctor also gives you 3 months of the pill free if you agree to take it

Every woman is offered councelling after the proceedure and are very much encouraged to go, presumably she is going to a legitimate clinic in England who do still offer the counselling to women back in Ireland.

Why would she go through this process 3 times, if offered any form of contraception free why has she continued to have unprotected sex and get herself pregnant again. Also you do realise with the cost of travel to th UK, somewhere to stay and the proceedure itself she is looking at the bones of €1000. Do you believe she has been able to get this money twice before and now again.

The reason I am telling you the in's and out's of the proceedure is to wonder is she 100% telling you the truth? You may think thi is harsh for me to say as this is a sensitive subject but you need to analyze her whole personality, I have come across girls in my time claiming they are pregnant etc claiming to go through the proceedure or having a miscarraige, never telling their fella's but only theyre girlfirends, if this is a cry for help or and attention seeking thing i am not sure but i am sure that some girls are capable of making this lie.

And the experience of an abortion is extremelly scary, un-nervying and painful between walkin through protesters (yes they still protest outside the clinics) sitting and waiting , the proceedure and the recovery I find it very hard to believe that this girl is about to go through it for the third time.

I dont mean to be cold or calluse by telling you to doubt her but it is something to consider and the fact that she is offered free contraception and still got pregnant shows she is careless.

It is her decision not yours whether he knows or not, I would encourage her to tell him if they decide to go through with it they should both be responsible for the termination as they were both responsible for the conception.
On the other hand I would seriously advice her to see someone for her coldnesss towards the abortion, ( i understand she is tring to distance herself from the reality of the situation) and the fact that this is her third abortion. This girl is in need of some form of help and also tell her to go to the damn doctor and get the pill if she is forgetful there is always the thing that goes in your arm.

At the rate shes going her womb will be so scarred from all the terminations that she will not be able to concieve when the time comes for her to want a baby.

I wish you the best of luck it is a hard situation'

BeardyGit

Don't go to England. As Thaed says, it won't do you any good at all.....Spare yourself the turmoil it will bring you later..

When it comes to telling your friends boyfriend, don't. I was in that lads shoes many years ago and wish I'd never been told. If she's going to have an abortion (and she will), you'll do nothing for him but possibly throw him headlong into a world of hurt. Don't think of it as keeping a secret, think of it as being kind to him by protecting him from the consequences of a painful and unnecessary truth. Trust me, he doesn't need to know.

Wibbs

I'd advise the same. Don't go to the UK with her. If she is telling the truth about this and the previous terminations, there's a world of irresponsibility going on, regardless of anyone's feelings on the procedure.

I'm all for honesty but I wouldn't tell the boyfriend either. It'll do no good at this stage.

Elessar

I think it's disgraceful she wont tell the boyfriend. It is his child aswell. Not just hers - his child aswell. And he has every right to know about his child. If she wont then tell him yourself. He may be in favour of the abortion for all you know, but please for the love of god - tell the man. This is a serious matter that should not be thrown aside so forgetably.

Put aside assumptions of how he will react. He is also responsible for his actions. But tell him, please. It is the right thing to do.

AnonoBoy

Elessar wrote:

I think it's disgraceful she wont tell the boyfriend. It is his child aswell. Not just hers - his child aswell. And he has every right to know about his child. If she wont then tell him yourself. He may be in favour of the abortion for all you know, but please for the love of god - tell the man. This is a serious matter that should not be thrown aside so forgetably.

Put aside assumptions of how he will react. He is also responsible for his actions. But tell him, please. It is the right thing to do.

If she's already made up her mind about this then I don't see the good in telling him. If the OP does not only is she betraying her friend's trust but she's also putting a whole world of issues onto the guy which he has no control over. If her mind is truly made up then he has no way of stopping her having the abortion and if she doesn't want him to know then I don't think it's the OP's place to step in and tell him. She can of course encourage her friend to tell him but I don't think she should go to the guy herself.

LegacyUser

'Thanks for all your advice. I have tried my best to convince her to tell her boyfriend, but she has flat out refused. I asked her if she told the other fathers and she said she never did because its her body.

It didnt cross my mind tha she might have made the prevous two and this one up, but I am really looking at those possibilities now. Nothing would suprise me at this stage'

AnonoBoy

Friendpregnancy wrote:

'Thanks for all your advice. I have tried my best to convince her to tell her boyfriend, but she has flat out refused. I asked her if she told the other fathers and she said she never did because its her body.

It didnt cross my mind tha she might have made the prevous two and this one up, but I am really looking at those possibilities now. Nothing would suprise me at this stage'

Remember that the only reason you're thinking this is because someone on here (who has never met the girl) suggested it. Ask her if she wants you to go with her, draw her out on the details, dates, times, clinic name, etc. If she's making it up you'll be able to tell. Don't accuse her of making it up though, especially if you're not 100% sure.

spinandscribble

also her story wouldnt work since she actually wants you to come with her. i think you need to ask yourself where your loyality lies between your friends. personally i'd have to tell the guy in question since i believe the father should have the right to keep the child if he wants. anyway if shes able to abort babies at the drop of a hat and you're against it i think shes got enough spunk in her to go over herself. pun intended

Cake Fiend

Can anyone explain what good it would do to tell the boyfriend?

Whether he has a right to know is not what I'm disputing, but I think it would do nothing but stir trouble.

spinandscribble

if he wants it then the death of a baby need not occur. its her body but its both their lifes and a unborn one too and personally im of the philosophy abortions are only morally justifiable if it has occured to you without you being to blame. ie. took precausions, was raped, too young ect.

Drift

Cake Fiend wrote:

Can anyone explain what good it would do to tell the boyfriend?

He might be able to convince her to keep it which in my opinion be a good thing and possibly in his too.

spinandscribble

i know women have a right to their body but i dont think the choice should start and end with their decision to have a baby. i think if one parent really wants it then why abort it? i hope this doesnt become a ethical debate however.

dudara

spinandscribble wrote:

if he wants it then the death of a baby need not occur. its her body but its both their lifes and a unborn one too and personally im of the philosophy abortions are only morally justifiable if it has occured to you without you being to blame. ie. took precausions, was raped, too young ect.

@ spinandscribble Please don't bring the ethics/murder issue into this thread. It will not be tolerated as it is not the place for it.

spinandscribble

oops, Sorry, just wanted to answer the question of why he should be told because i knew someone had already mentioned it was her body ect ect but well noted and i'l try not to bring it up

spurious

Don't go if you are not going to be supportive of her.

Whether she tells the bf or not is entirely her business and nothing to do with you.

Cake Fiend

Cake Fiend wrote:

Can anyone explain what good it would do to tell the boyfriend?

Whether he has a right to know is not what I'm disputing, but I think it would do nothing but stir trouble.

The only thing that I can think of is that it might be a wake up call for the girl to think a bit more if she is using abortion as her favoured contraception(for want of a better term) ie she might have to hear a few home truths.
She might actually have to deal with the consequences of her decisions on how she has sex.
That wouldn't necessarally be a bad thing.
I wouldnt be advocating that if it was her first time or even her second time but a third time in such a short space? As someone else kind of said it's wreckless behaviour with her own body,the body that she supposedly cares about.

WindSock

Drift wrote:

He might be able to convince her to keep it which in my opinion be a good thing and possibly in his too.

But he then might decide not to stick around 7 months down the line.

LundiMardi

Do not go with her, she does not deserve moral support for something she continuously ignores.

Glowing

Jees. If you refuse to go with her, it might force her to think a bit more seriously about her decision.

Once, then I might possibly go, but 3 times is just being careless and selfish.

On another point, does your friend plan to have children in the future? 3 abortions may affect her physically in the long run ......

metrovelvet

Don't go if you are uncomfortable. As of now you are not a witness to anything, and its just hearsa, just talk. Ask her not to discuss it with you as the boyfriend is your friend. Take the "i know nothing" approach. You know - hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

Drift

boreds wrote:

But he then might decide not to stick around 7 months down the line.

I don't think what might happen in the future is a sufficient reason ....... should get back on topic though.

The way I see it the child has two parents and its a parents right to know if they have a child. The girl's bf is being denied this right. It will obviously make things more complicated and difficult if he is told but sometimes life is complicated and difficult. The easy thing to do is not always the right thing to do.

I'd like to ask the OP if her friend knows that they have very differing views on abortion?

Crea

Drift wrote:

I don't think what might happen in the future is a sufficient reason ....... should get back on topic though.

The way I see it the child has two parents and its a parents right to know if they have a child. The girl's bf is being denied this right. It will obviously make things more complicated and difficult if he is told but sometimes life is complicated and difficult. The easy thing to do is not always the right thing to do.

I'd like to ask the OP if her friend knows that they have very differing views on abortion?

Does anyone here honestly think that telling the bf will make the friend not have an abortion?? She has had 2 in the past so regardless of whether the bf knows it is very likely she'll go ahead. He can't force her to have this baby, he has no legal rights. All it will do is ensure he knows that his pregnant girlfriend aborted his child and he couldn't do a damn thing about it which could be a major mind f**k.
This friend is being reckless in the extreme and needs to be told this. A few home truths may make her realise that her behaviour is out of order. Don't go and tell her exactly why.

Drift

He still deserves to know about the child even if she aborts/aborted it. I believe its his right to know.

As for fathers rights over unborn children thats a topic for humanities or something.

Looking at it from my own point of view. It'd hurt me a lot to know that my girlfriend was pregnant with my child and didn't tell me and I'm sure there must be other guys out there who feel the same.

Crea

Drift wrote:

He still deserves to know about the child even if she aborts/aborted it. I believe its his right to know.

As for fathers rights over unborn children thats a topic for humanities or something.

Looking at it from my own point of view. It'd hurt me a lot to know that my girlfriend was pregnant with my child and didn't tell me and I'm sure there must be other guys out there who feel the same.

The fathers LEGAL rights have nothing to do with humanities - the fact is he has none and can't do anything to make her keep the baby.
If the OP doesn't mind losing this girl as a friend then she can go ahead and tell the guy and he can sit back and have no say in what happens. Mind you at least he could dump the girl.

LegacyUser

'She knows that I dont agree with abortion, when she told me about the previous two i made that perfectly clear. Even after talking to her last night i begged her to tell him, but it was just like she didnt care. The fact is even with this abortion shes just going about it like its an everyday thing which I just dont understand'

bug

who did she go with the last two times?
Well ask her to ask them.

Seriously, if someone found the experience so daunting the last two times, they would make sure that it wouldn't happen again to the best of their ability.

Your friend is either a complete Muppet with no learning curve, or has serious emotional problems.

I mean once I can understand, twice is careless, three times is just complete idiocy with a complete disregard for her own health.

If you dont agree, dont go.
You dont have to go and its not letting her down.

Drift

Even though there's nothing he can do about it I still think the bf should know (I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one Crea). But I do see Crea's point about it not being the OPs job to tell the bf. I think the OP did/is doing the right thing in asking the pregnant girl to tell her bf.

I could be off the mark here but if she knows the OPs strong opinions on abortion could it be that by approaching her again this time she is making some sort of a subconscious cry for help? Has she confided in anyone else regarding this abortion or the previous ones ... if so the OP may be able to get some backup from a second person. I think even people who are strongly pro abortion would see that 3 abortions could well indicate some sort of deeper problem.

ferdi

Cake Fiend wrote:

Can anyone explain what good it would do to tell the boyfriend?

it does not matter if it will do any good. the fact is that a father has the right to know that his child is going to be aborted.

LegacyUser

'

bug wrote:

who did she go with the last two times?
Well ask her to ask them.

She used to live in the states, thats where she got them done before, I only met her when I was in uni, one of them happened during the summer between 1st and 2nd year. She said she went with friends of hers, who I assume are very pro abortion. Also she never told the fathers of the other babies as far as I know so I doubt she's gonna start now.

I have said to her that she doesnt need to do this, there are many options, she has a good enough job that would support both her and a child if her boyfriend wanted nothing to do with her, or theres always adoption.

I do know that some other close friends of ours know, who would be more pro abortion than me but she has not asked them to go with her'

spurious

who I assume are very pro abortion

I have never met a single person who is 'pro abortion'. Abortion is something that is in this world - of course the ideal would be that it was never necessary, but people are not perfect. If someone has had an abortion, it does not make them 'pro-abortion'.

Just because someone accompanied this woman on her trip to the clinic does not make them 'pro' anything. It makes them her friend and they were supporting her, whether they agreed with what she was doing or not.

The OP does not feel able to support his/her friend, so should not.

metrovelvet

The father may have a right to know, but does OP have the right to tell him?

Marksie

metrovelvet wrote:

The father may have a right to know, but does OP have the right to tell him?

I am with you on this metrovelvet. The OP shouldn't tell the boyfriend. It is between the two of them.
But neither should the OP go with the pregnant friend if she doesn't want to.

Drift

I think the whole problem is that the OP wants to be a good friend even though she personally disagrees with the choice. I don't know what I'd do if a friend of mine came to me in the same circumstances ..... even if I disagreed completely I might go anyway so the friend wouldn't be alone but then who knows what psychological affects that may have on me later .....

OP, don't be bullied into anything. Your friend definitely needs support but if you don't feel right accompanying her you can still provide support before she leaves and after she comes home.

BeardyGit

Who says the boyfriend is the father? Who says she's been entirely faithful? I'm not implying people who have abortions are cheaters by default, but it's a possibility, isn't it? Don't kid yourself by thinking you know your friend well enough to know she wouldn't cheat....you can't be certain, can you? You didn't know about her previous abortions, did you? So, don't give the benefit of the doubt - Anything's possible here, including things you might hope your friends wouldn't do....

Considering the above as a distinct possibility (because as an adult, you should - Look at the number of 'cheating' PI's), a secret abortion would be one way someone might decide to be a suitable way of 'dealing' with an indiscretion gone 'horribly' wrong, wouldn't it? Like it or not, we all know that's how some people approach abortion, as a 'quick fix' (urgh) when they fail to behave responsibly in the first place. I know, there are lots of arguments to defend abortions under various circumstances. But in this case, it's unlikely she wants the abortion for any of the more unusual reasons....especially if it's to be her third.

So, here's the tricky part - What would lead you to think you should tell the boyfriend that his girlfriend is about to abort his unborn child? I mean, can you prove it? Are you absolutely certain it's his child? No, you can't be. Can you be absolutely certain she's telling the truth if she tells you it *is* his? No, you can't be. Nothing about this is certain.....Except that you're not in any position to determine whether or not he's the father, and therefore whether or not he has a 'right' to know. Everyone here should realise that he has *NO* rights to any unborn child. None. That's the simple fact of the matter and you can't change it in time to make any difference here. Pleading with her to tell him will not actually change anything for a woman who has decided to terminate. Him finding out won't suddenly grant him some sort of rights, so he can stop her aborting. It's obvious enough that this woman doesn't share your idea of how to behave in this situation, and whether right or wrong, you'll do well to accept this.

So, you now need only to decide if you go with her or not. That's the only decision you have to make. Personally, I don't think you're in the right place emotionally or phsychologically to effectively play a part in facilitating an abortion. If you go with her, that's what you'll be doing - Setting yourself up as part of the support structure she needs to go ahead with the termination. If you pull out, that doesn't mean she'll keep the baby etc., but it'll at least leave you with a clear conscience, that you didn't have anything to do with it.

You can't stop it - but if you object, then don't support the act itself. Have nothing to do with any of it, for your own sakes, if you can't reconcile this with yourself quickly and painlessly. I'm warning you now, this will likely eat you up if you get too close to it. I know people who are strong enough and confident enough in their own position on abortion that they could support friends in travelling to the UK for a termination. I know many more who just couldn't do it. Neither group are right or wrong, good or bad people, better or worse friends etc. Different people handle this situation differently. Just respect your own gut feeling on this and don't feel obliged to do anything, just because either of this couple carries the label of 'friend'.

Good luck, whatever way you decide to play it out....

Gil

Miss Fluff

metrovelvet wrote:

Don't go if you are uncomfortable. As of now you are not a witness to anything, and its just hearsa, just talk. Ask her not to discuss it with you as the boyfriend is your friend. Take the "i know nothing" approach. You know - hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

Couldn't agree more MV, if you don't want to get involved you shouldn't have to be. It is not your place to tell her BF though OP, that is entirely her business.

If you DO want to be a friend to her though, she SERIOUSLY needs to think about what contraception she is using (if any). Perhaps she is not responsible enough to be taking the pill every day so should look at getting an implant inserted. Abortion should only ever be a last resort and not a method to counteract carelessness so a trip to her family planning clinic should be her first port of call when she arrives back in Dublin.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Thaedydal wrote:

If you disagree then don't go.
It will not do you mentally or emotionally any good to facillate her.

i disagree, you may not be in favour, but think of your friend... she is not taking this decision lightly,

sometime being a true friend means you need to give advice, not pressure, and then support your friend in what ever decision she has made...

its hard but this issue is not about YOU, its about your friend.

sometimes you have to put others before yourself and your views.

BeardyGit

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

i disagree, you may not be in favour, but think of your friend... she is not taking this decision lightly,

sometime being a true friend means you need to give advice, not pressure, and then support your friend in what ever decision she has made...

its hard but this issue is not about YOU, its about your friend.

sometimes you have to put others before yourself and your views.

If my friend decided to rob a bank and asked me to be his getaway driver, I wouldn't just try to talk him out of it, and end up driving the getaway car anyway..... just because I want to be a 'Good friend'. Imagine trying to use that as a defence. It's ridiculous. "Sorry judge, I was only tryin' to be a good skin an all an' anyways"

I know, going for an abortion in the UK is not illegal. And I'm most certainly not arguing for or against - That's not the point here. Using my analogy above once more, if the OP ends up being tried by her conscience (as opposed to a judge) for being the 'getaway driver', she's going to go down for life, so to speak. There's no escaping the long arm of a guilty conscience folks.

So again, it's down to the OP to decide what her position is regarding her supporting a friend in having a termination. If she thinks her conscience will make her pay a price - Then she should opt out now.....

And if her friend is worth her salt, she'll respect the OP's decision. Anyone who tries to force another to act against their personal beliefs and principles when it comes to abortion would never be described as a friend by me.... Pro-Life or Pro-choice, these are personal decisions, and friends respect each others right to make their own decision.....But don't necessarily support the decision itself.

Like it or not \/\/@LEETSPEEK@\/\/, This is *ALL* about the OP right now.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

robbing a bank is the same as abortion,

if the post on this issue are to this standard, then i think this discussion has went way over my intellect level and i am way out of my depth.

enjoy.

Crea

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

i disagree, you may not be in favour, but think of your friend... she is not taking this decision lightly,

sometime being a true friend means you need to give advice, not pressure, and then support your friend in what ever decision she has made...

its hard but this issue is not about YOU, its about your friend.

sometimes you have to put others before yourself and your views.

I don't really agree with you on the friend not taking the decision lightly. This is her third abortion which is showing a fairly cavalier attitude in relation to pregnancy prevention and dealing with the consequences.
I understand that as much as possible we should support her friends but if this friend is doing something that the OP is morally opposed to then she should be allowed to step back. I was discussing this with my sister and she told me that if I were to have an abortion she wouldn't come with me because she is opposed to it and I absolutely accept that. I would never put someone in the position of them having to go against their beliefs.

LegacyUser

'Thanks everyone for your advice. I met with her today and told her I just couldnt go against my personal beliefs and supposrt her over in England with this. She had a go at me saying what kind of friend I was and how if anything happened to me she'd be there. I said to her I'd be ther to support her when she got back, but I couldnt be the sympathetic sholder she needed with this. She said she really wanted me to go, and even said e could go on a shopping trip to London after! I got really angry, and said to her how could she just treat such a situation so lightly (not in those words). She told me her boyfriends definately the father, so I suppose I can only take her word for it. I asked her why she would choose me to go with her since there are other friend who would be in a better position morally to be with her. she just looked at me and didnt answer. Things werent left on good terms, I've told her I will be there fo her, but not with something I objectto so much about. As for the boyfriend, she has absolutely no plans to tell him, and probably never will. He text me earlier asking if theres anything wrong because she seems a little "preoccupied", but I didnt reply.'

Poppy84

friendpregnancy wrote:

. She said she really wanted me to go, and even said e could go on a shopping trip to London after! I got really angry, and said to her how could she just treat such a situation so lightly (not in those words).

There is no way she would be able to go shopping after that kind of proceedure with the pain etc and tbh her attitute towards the situation is shocking. To suggest going shopping after a termination really emphasises her cold attitude towards the situation, this girl seriously needs to see someone - I dont believe anyone could be so cold hearted about this situation.

OP well done for sticking to your morals if you cant face that situation you did the right thing.

Have you come to a decision on telling the father yourself?

Drift

Well done OP I think you did/are doing the very best you can. Hopefully if the boyfriend has sussed that somethings up he won't stop looking for answers until he gets them.

BeardyGit

Good job OP - Stick with your own principles, not anyone elses.

I hope your friend works all this out for herself too - Sounds like she's going to learn it all the hard way though, and there's nothing any of us can do to stop that. You can be a good friend by keeping an eye out for when she comes crashing down to earth....

Best of luck,

Gil

LegacyUser

'

Poppy84 wrote:

Have you come to a decision on telling the father yourself?

Shes going to England in the next few weeks, so maybe in that time she'll have the guts to tell him. If not then I suppose I'll have to decide whether or not to tell him before she leaves'

Beruthiel

friendpregnancy wrote:

If not then I suppose I'll have to decide whether or not to tell him before she leaves'

I suggest you think long and hard before you interfer in this.
And when you've thought about it, think again.
I for one certainly would not get involved in that one.

Your friend is a total idiot to let this happen to her so many times, she clearly doesn't pay any kind of attention to contraception. To be in a relationship and not tell your partner is utter selfishness. But it's their relationship.
What do you expect to happen if you tell the b/f? If you wish for them to break up, then goal achieved on your part.
But me thinks that's all that will happen, if you were thinking of any other good coming from this, it won't.

Elessar

friendpregnancy wrote:

'

Shes going to England in the next few weeks, so maybe in that time she'll have the guts to tell him. If not then I suppose I'll have to decide whether or not to tell him before she leaves'

Good on you. At least someone is taking this situation seriously. If I was him, regardless of my reaction to such a situation, I would thank you in the end for telling me. Fathers have a right to know, I cannot stress this enough. Anyway, let us know how you get on.

metrovelvet

friendpregnancy wrote:

\ She had a go at me saying what kind of friend I was and how if anything happened to me she'd be there. She said she really wanted me to go, and even said e could go on a shopping trip to London after! '

There's something Im not getting. This woman will have had as many abortions as I have had tooth extractions and seems to think of abortion and tooth extraction is a similar manner. If its such not a big deal, then why would she need that much support from you and how is your refusal to come with her a huge betrayal?

Also, how does she think shes going to be able to shop afterwards?