BMW 318iS or VW Golf GTi?

quarryman

Considering one of these. Seem to be around the same price range (up to 10k).

The Golf seems to be quicker according to Parkers's here. Looks like there is a 125, 150 and 180 bhp, does it follow the same red lettering format as the Tdi? (GTi etc).



The BMW seems to be available better spec'd, leather/air-con a lot more common (so long as you buy in the UK). Insurance is better, Quinn panic as soon as 'GT' is mentioned.



Fuel economy is the same in both, ie crap.

Anyhting else to consider?

kmick

GTI - resale is better and a 318 is a girls car even if it is a go faster. No man should be seen in anything less than a 320 if he is ever to call himself master of his universe.

PaddyFagan

quarryman wrote:

Looks like there is a 125, 150 and 180 bhp, does it follow the same red lettering format as the Tdi? (GTi etc)

The straight answer is No. Some of the 150 bhp cars have a red i, a lot of the 180 bhp cars do, but there no hard and fast rules - check the documents for the car you're looking at.

Paddy

smash

I'd go for the golf, BMWs age quickly I think...

$Leon$

VW UK made up their own rules when badging the Mk4 Gti.

In Ireland as elsewhere in europe their is only 2 gti engines - the 150bhp and 180bhp (red i) both turbo powered.

VW UK decided to badge the 1.8 NA and 2.0 NA as gti's as well as making up the gttdi.

The NA petrol engines are not worth even looking. They are both very under powered. They didn't appear in ireland in the standard golf. AFAIK they were only available in the cabrio, A4 and A6.

omega man

The 150 GTI was badged in all silver while the anniversary 180 model was badged with a red I. I believe the anniversary TDI 150 was actually badged as a GTI also. The MKIV GTI was an awful car as vw gti history goes. I would also agree that anything less than a 320 BMW 3 series is a non starter imo.

Cyrus

as said before if getting a gti get the 1.8t (150/180 doesnt matter, both can be remapped to around 200bhp with little fuss and is a quick car at that).

Definately try get a gti from 01 on (respond better to remap) and try get the leather recaros (lovely seats) 3drs look nicer than 5 and if you want to mod it all you need are lowered suspension and 18" BBS CH/RC or LM wheels, job done.

318is is an old looking car now and hard to find a decent one

Mahatma coat

just did a quick GIS the engine is E/W in the golf, so no mtter how much power it puts out its still goin to the wrong wheels.

BMW, actual driving experience, even with small engine

quarryman

Agreed, the badging seems to have no pattern and its best to stick to the paperwork etc.

Cyrus wrote:

as said before if getting a gti get the 1.8t (150/180 doesnt matter, both can be remapped to around 200bhp with little fuss and is a quick car at that).

wow, i thought those gains were only possible on the GT TDis

Cyrus wrote:

Definately try get a gti from 01 on (respond better to remap) and try get the leather recaros (lovely seats) 3drs look nicer than 5 and if you want to mod it all you need are lowered suspension and 18" BBS CH/RC or LM wheels, job done.

Not sure my 10k budget would stretch to all that

Cyrus wrote:

318is is an old looking car now and hard to find a decent one

There's definately some decent ones in the UK.

omega man

The 1.8T 150 will remap to 192 and the 180 to about 210. A great VAG engine for tuning.

Cyrus

omega man wrote:

The 1.8T 150 will remap to 192 and the 180 to about 210. A great VAG engine for tuning.

thats the pre 01 engine (cant remember the codes off hand) newer 1.8ts will all makes 200+

Cyrus

my old one

omega man

Cyrus wrote:

thats the pre 01 engine (cant remember the codes off hand) newer 1.8ts will all makes 200+

No way the 1.8T 150 would make over 200. All of the well known tuning companies state an increase to 192 with a standard remap. Maybe with a stage 2 remap in the UK by revo would give 200+.

Cyrus

REvo and Jabba would be the two best known off the shelf remaps for the 1.8t engine.

the numbers you quoted was the older engines, im not making this stuff up

Revo 207bhp

http://www.revotechnik.com/products/softwareProduct.aspx?pvID=170

Jabba 205-215bhp

http://www.jabbasport.com/vehicle_preview.asp?variantid=23

omega man

Fair play but the likes of upsolute etc here in ireland wont reach those figures. I think there might be a revo up north though.

http://www.upsolute.ie/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,44/

quarryman

How much for this type of remap guys? Doesn't seem to say on the Upsolute site.

Cyrus

omega man wrote:

Fair play but the likes of upsolute etc here in ireland wont reach those figures. I think there might be a revo up north though.

http://www.upsolute.ie/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,44/

the upsolute is just based on the older code engine, many people have got upsolute maps for above 200bhp on newer engines.

Some guy in meath does Revo aswell. Or Chippedire will do it either.

Be looking at 350-500 for a remap

You would want to check what octane fuel those remaps require

I doubt you will get 200bhp on 95 RON.

Cyrus

lads you absolutely will, i dont know why its so hard to believe, i had mine done, in a straight line there was nothing between it and my buddys mk5 gti (corners were a different story )

look at any vw enthusiasts site (uk mkivs being the best) a 200bhp remap is quite normal

Big Balls

omega man wrote:

Fair play but the likes of upsolute etc here in ireland wont reach those figures. I think there might be a revo up north though.

http://www.upsolute.ie/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,44/

Where do you get the info from?! LOL

So across the border the companies make the cars go faster do they? Westward Engineering are the REVO dealer for the Republic, they're in Enfield.

ronoc wrote:

You would want to check what octane fuel those remaps require

I doubt you will get 200bhp on 95 RON.

Remaps for the GTI run fine on 95, they can actually produce over 210bhp from the later DBW engine and K03 turbo.

Mahatma coat wrote:

BMW, actual driving experience, even with small engine

Can't agree. Driving experience once you weren't so desperate to own one that you settled for a 4 pot engine as you couldn't afford one with a proper engine. Even the 320s are slow.

BTW the Anni Golf is not a red I, the 180 bhp GTI has a red I. The Anni looks completely different, wheels, kit, seats... everything.

Futureman

Cyrus wrote:

my old one

And?

Big Balls

Big Balls wrote:

Where do you get the info from?! LOL

So across the border the companies make the cars go faster do they? Westward Engineering are the REVO dealer for the Republic, they're in Enfield.



Remaps for the GTI run fine on 95, they can actually produce over 210bhp from the later DBW engine and K03 turbo.

I stand corrected

Big Balls wrote:

Can't agree. Driving experience once you weren't so desperate to own one that you settled for a 4 pot engine as you couldn't afford one with a proper engine. Even the 320s are slow.

BTW the Anni Golf is not a red I, the 180 bhp GTI has a red I. The Anni looks completely different, wheels, kit, seats... everything.

Agree apart from being desperate to buy a 4 pot.. They are not a bad car if a tad underpowered. Its not really fair to compare a luxary coupe to a hot golf powerwise!

But BMWs 6 pots are their strong point. They have refined them so much.
Drive a six pot motor and listen to it roar to the redline, you will definatly go for them over the 4 cyl!

Big Balls

I'm sorry man I just think of idiots in 1 series, Compacts and 318ci's with 05 D 320 1 etc on the reg plate. Just people desperate to own a BMW. I'll probably go for a new model coupe for my next jam jar but it'll be at least a 325.

Cyrus

Futureman wrote:

And?

have to say thats kind of annoyed me.

Guy is looking for opinions on a car ive owned, ive given them, then given some mods i think will look nice, given info on engine remaps (which people have tried to tell me is wrong) and then shown a pic of my old one for comparisions sake.

and you post why? does the picture offend you? do you feel its out of context, please elaborate!

Big Balls

Big Balls wrote:

I'm sorry man I just think of idiots in 1 series, Compacts and 318ci's with 05 D 320 1 etc on the reg plate. Just people desperate to own a BMW. I'll probably go for a new model coupe for my next jam jar but it'll be at least a 325.

I own a compact :mad:

But its a 2.5l six pot

Big Balls

Cyrus, wouldn't worry about it. He prob owns a Focus with a 'savage' bodykit on it!

quarryman

Cyrus wrote:

have to say thats kind of annoyed me.

Guy is looking for opinions on a car ive owned, ive given them, then given some mods i think will look nice, given info on engine remaps (which people have tried to tell me is wrong) and then shown a pic of my old one for comparisions sake.

and you post why? does the picture offend you? do you feel its out of context, please elaborate!

and I was waiting for input from Cyrus as i know he has owned almost the exact GTi I would be looking at.

I'm not really interested in +/-10bhp arguements about remaps or 'idiots' that drive 1-series.

Just looking for advice on the best car between the 2 in terms of driving experience, reliability, resale and performance.

thanks!

Big Balls

Well it's a forum, you get opinions, if my opinion of lesser BMWs offends you then you should DEFFO get one as the badge is clearly all you want.

I've also owned nearly as many GTIs as there's days in a week but off you go so!

quarryman

I'm not offended by your remark but it's irrelevant, I didn't ask about a 1-series.

At what point did I state I was only interested in the BMW badge, I offered 2 cars for opinions. You seem to have a complex that people who want to drive BMWs need to meet some specific requirements.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies guys, some food for thought. Leaning towards the GTi I reckon.

Henry Ford III

omega man wrote:

The 1.8T 150 will remap to 192 and the 180 to about 210. A great VAG engine for tuning.

Will your insurance rise accordingly?

Are the brakes, steering, suspension and drivetrain up to a near 30% increase in power?

FX Meister

Yeah, they will all be cool HF III. FACT

Big Balls

Big Balls wrote:

Well it's a forum, you get opinions, if my opinion of lesser BMWs offends you then you should DEFFO get one as the badge is clearly all you want.

I've also owned nearly as many GTIs as there's days in a week but off you go so!

I was with you up to this..
There are plenty of reasons to buy a BMW apart from the badge.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of your "BMW man" argument. BMWs are out selling fords in the mondeo segment and they are nowhere near as exlusive as your badge snobbery argument suggests.

Mahatma coat

to stick my oar into whats probably a dead thread,

I have an E30 318i, yes its a small car, thats what I bought it for - nippin round town etc - the kinda reasons small 4pot motors are popular, its by no means a racecar, however its main advantage over the golfs etc is that it is RWD, this makes all the difference IMHO when it comes to driving experience.

I wouldnt set off on an extemley long journey in the BMW, thats why I have a Falcon, but round town its nippy and maneouverable, much more so than any FWD car I've driven

Mahatma coat

actualy I should rephrase that as FWD of equivelant size, yes yher fckn Mini Cooper (or any mini) would outmaneouver the shie out of me, and tehre are loads of ricerockets that will leave me standin at the lights, but which would I rather have?

you allready know that

HashSlinging

You'd have the "Ultimate Washing Machine" with a 1400 spin cycle.

Biro

Are you limiting yourself strictly to these two? Neither are bad, but then again, neither will set the heart racing on a backroad. The Mk 4 Golf is accepted now as being the worst GTi of them all. Now bear in mind that that doesn't mean that it's a pile of dung, it's just that the rest were very good (apart maybe from the mk3, marginally better only). So it's fine, but not exceptional on the handing front.
Also, it kind of bugs me the way some people seem to think that no matter what RWD is better handling than FWD. Thats just narrowminded and wrong.

Big Balls

ronoc wrote:

I was with you up to this..
There are plenty of reasons to buy a BMW apart from the badge.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of your "BMW man" argument. BMWs are out selling fords in the mondeo segment and they are nowhere near as exlusive as your badge snobbery argument suggests.

You're kinda backing me up there even if you don't realise it. If they are outselling Mondeos it's people in 318 saloons who WANT a badge.

The real engine BMWs are exclusive, the badge is not. Check out any motoring website eg. Carzone and check out the amount of 318s compared to 325s, 328, 330s, 335s (I think there's TWO 335s for sale in the whole country!) that are up for sale.

If you want driving experience I don't see why you would need to buy a BMW with 143bhp to get that, there's plenty of cars out there with that power for less money so bearing all that in mind, I can't think of any other reason why you would want the BMW apart from having the badge if you are in anything less than a 320.

quarryman

Big Balls wrote:

........ there's plenty of cars out there with that power for less money so bearing all that in mind, I can't think of any other reason why you would want the BMW apart from having the badge if you are in anything less than a 320.

and those cars are?! I'm open to suggestions.

HashSlinging

What about this, im sure is well within budget, sleeper city..

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=588156

Biro

quarryman wrote:

and those cars are?! I'm open to suggestions.

7th gen Celica for a start... 140bhp, better handling, better looking, probably more reliable.

Big Balls

TBH I think 10k is a bit short to be spending to be trying to get the type of driving experience you are looking for.

You can sift through old Imprezas, MR2s etc but you are just gonna be bringing trouble onto yourself and I don't feel the GTI is going to give you that feeling that you are after!

This seems to be just a better example of the 318is you saw.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=563542

By all means, go for a well kept BMW 318is over the GTI but if you saved a bit more you would get yourself into a BMW with a real engine.

I can't believe Hash threw up a Skoda with a stick on wooden trim steering wheel as an actual suggestion. Unless it's an RS then you are wasting your time. The guy wants to have a flashy enough car, not look like a bloody hackney driver!!!!

bazz26

Seat Leon Cupra R:
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=463397

That one is expensive but they are more plentiful and cheaper in the UK.

Also the 150bhp Leon TDi: http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=586431

Or the Skoda Octavia vRS:
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=560306

Edit: Just saw that your budget is €10k so I don't think you will get any of these for that money.

$Leon$

bazz26 wrote:

Seat Leon Cupra R:
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=463397
.

Can't believe someone actually traded this in for a Kia

quarryman

Biro wrote:

7th gen Celica for a start... 140bhp, better handling, better looking, probably more reliable.

I don't think these are great looking cars, good performers from what I hear though.

Leons and vRS waaaay out of my budget Bazz

TBH I think 10k is a bit short to be spending to be trying to get the type of driving experience you are looking for.

You can sift through old Imprezas, MR2s etc but you are just gonna be bringing trouble onto yourself and I don't feel the GTI is going to give you that feeling that you are after!

This seems to be just a better example of the 318is you saw.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index...r&carID=563542

I'm really trying to keep under a budget of 10k. My current car is worth about 5k so if I save a grand, I'll be going to the bank looking for another 4k. That's about as much as i want to borrow.

Still reckon the GTi is my best bet so far. Weekend after next I'm going to go through carzone and test drive as many as have been mentioned in this thread and see what interests me most.

HashSlinging

im sure is well within budget.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=588156

HashSlinging

HashSlinging wrote:

im sure is well within budget.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=588156

The inside of it is vile. It looks like someone started designing it an quit and the replacment filled it with bits from other cars that don't go together.

Don't even get me started on the alloys they put on it.

quarryman

what does POA mean exactly? Also, Octavia is overkill for me, I'm trying to keep it to 3 doors.

Big Balls

Price on application or price on asking.. it varies.

quarryman

Looking at the prices for the GTis here, would be people steer clear of a 100k+ Golf?

Would it wear the miles well?

$Leon$

There's 163k on mine

unkel

Cyrus wrote:

have to say thats kind of annoyed me

That annoyed me too. @Futureman - get a grip...