Help! Traffic Corps Questions...

Seinas

I was driving into town lastnight and there was 3 Gardai at the top of town as i was driving it. Im 17, a provisional licence driver, with a 07' Mitsubishi L200. When I noticed it was the Traffic Corps i realised i might have a spot of trouble. So far in the last month or so of my driving all the normal Gardai have waved me on but i was unsure about the Traffic Corps. He asked me for my licence, took out the business card I had in it, walked around, checked my tax and then came to the window again. He asked my friend if he had a full driving licence and we said no. He then told me it's taxed commercially and he told me that its to be used for commercial purposes and not ''for going for a spin''. I told him it was owned by a transport company and he said ''it doesnt matter a sh*te''...he told me to turn around and go home and that if he ever see's me again that he is taking it off me.

so, are the Traffic Corps more severe than just normal Gardai?

Can he really take my jeep off me for not having a full licence driver??? everyone seems to drive alone on provisional licences. Would it be worth it for him because it might just mean alot of paper work for him?? If i do meet him again and I dont have a full licence driver what would he do??? get me out of it, drive off and leave me standing there?

Im all confused about it, so id like some help :rolleyes:

overdriver

Sounds like sour grapes to me. I think he'd have a hard time taking it off you as you could argue you were on commercial business, and presumably get someone to back you up from the company.

As for the provisional question, there are LOTS of threads about that. Do a search, but keep the afternoon free to read 'em.

Seinas

yeah, thats what i had always planned but lastnight I just panicked and said as little as possible...my replies to him were more like whimpers.....

will do, thanks

my friends car was taken off him, because he was speeding, dangerous driving, no insurance and had no full licence driver......I am insured and Im a safe, cautious driver, the on-board computer can show my average speed.......so maybe there would be little chance of it?

peasant

Guess you caught your man on a bad day

He does have a point, though. A commercial vehicle is supposed to be driven for commercial use and not for recreation. What business could you possibly have in a pickup on the evening of St. Patricks day?
Secondly, as a provisional driver you are suppesd to be accompanied by someone with a full licence. Once a gain ...what business could two kids without provisional licences have on St. Patricks day ...other than taking the new pickup for a spin?

That cop probably has seen one to many young guys being scraped off the road already and decided to give you an earful.

Think about what he said ...he could have hit you with he book there and then ...

overdriver

Yep. Just have a licensed driver in the car with you, it's gameball.
You're 17, and driving an '07...go figure some mule got upset.

Seinas

peasant wrote:

What business could you possibly have in a pickup on the evening of St. Patricks day?
Secondly, as a provisional driver you are suppesd to be accompanied by someone with a full licence. Once a gain ...what business could two kids without provisional licences have on St. Patricks day ...other than taking the new pickup for a spin?

Then again, the Irish transport industry doesnt stop just because its a national holiday

peasant

Seinas wrote:

Then again, the Irish transport industry doesnt stop just because its a national holiday

Since when are you "The Irish Transport Industry" ?

Seinas

the business card that was in my driving licence says so

he took it out and gave me this look as he was giving it to me.... :rolleyes:

Stephen

You've no business driving a commercial without a licence anyway - what business would employ someone to drive without a licence?

Green_Martian

Stephen wrote:

You've no business driving a commercial without a licence anyway - what business would employ someone to drive without a licence?

I know quite a few blokes who drive company vans and cars and they only have a prov licence.............so it seems a few companies out there allow it..........

DonJose

You should have thanked the guard for being lenient, the following statement is from the Traffic Corp, "An Garda Síochána have prosecuted provisional licence holders for driving unaccompanied. The offence is in effect driving without a driving licence."

johnnyrotten

You were breaking the law! Get a full license driver to accompany you next time!

Anan1

overdriver wrote:

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

overdriver wrote:

You're 17, and driving an '07...go figure some mule got upset.

The OP was driving a pick-up truck, not a Ferrari. Gardaí are paid by the state (ie us) to uphold the law. The OP was breaking the law. The OP was lucky this time, but would do well to learn from the incident.

Green_Martian

I have to agree with some of the posts here, you were lucky last nite you could have gotten a cop in a really bad mood and decide to take the car off you, but instead he let you off with a warning and told you to turn around and go home........

colm_mcm

what's the significane of the business card in the drivers licesce? am I missing something?

peasant

colm_mcm wrote:

what's the significane of the business card in the drivers licesce? am I missing something?

It's either to justify driving a commercial ...seenashow your man is on business, why else would he have a business card ...

Or, it is to suitably inform any garda with who's daddy's lawyers they'd be messing if they applied the law

_Kaiser_

One point here if I may. This story once again highlights the attitude problem many of the Gardai (traffic corps or otherwise) seem to have with the general public. Regardless of the circumstances, there is absolutely no cause nor justification for a Garda to be rude, "smart", or generally throwing their weight about just because they have a badge.

Someone else mentioned on the other thread that it's almost as if the public is an inconvenience to them, and stories like this merely reinforce that.

I'll say it again, the need to "standardise" the enforcement of the law (thus doing away with the "it depends who you get on the day" phenomenon) starts with a clean sweep of the Gardai, from the rank and file officers to the top level Garda Comissioner.

Until then we'll continue to have this keystone cops brigade that passes for a police force in this country!

(For balance: no, I realise that not all Gardai behave in this manner or are incompetent, but there's enough of them that are in my opinion that it's high time action was taken to weed them out).

overdriver

Anan1 wrote:

The OP was driving a pick-up truck, not a Ferrari. Gardaí are paid by the state (ie us) to uphold the law. The OP was breaking the law. The OP was lucky this time, but would do well to learn from the incident.

Ah, the perfect Anan pontificates once more. The garda, according to the OP was complaining about him driving a commercial vehicle, so what has that got to do with the law REALLY? How many commercial vehicles are actually on business at all times they're on the road? All those vans one sees pulling up outside restaurants and pubs at lunch time on a Sunday?


If you'd read my post, you'll see I told him he should have a fully licensed driver with him. I have strong suspicions that the Garda WAS throwing his weight around.

I have been stopped by UK police, and Garda alike. I always find the UK police much more courteous and professional in their attitude. I've met far too many swaggering, power-drunk Garda for my liking.

peasant

I have strong suspicions that the Garda WAS throwing his weight around.

If the Garda HAD thrown his weight around, he would have made the two lads pull the pickup in off the road somewhere and walk them home to get someone with a proper licence to either drive it home or to accompany the OP driving it home.

ffs ..the man was leniant.

Just because there are hundreds of "commercials" being driven around under false pretenses or thousands of L-drivers on motorways or without a fully licensed driver next to them doesn't mean that there is an automatic right for everyone to expect to be able to do the same and get away with it.

overdriver

peasant wrote:

If the Garda HAD thrown his weight around, he would have made the two lads pull the pickup in off the road somewhere and walk them home to get someone with a proper licence to either drive it home or to accompany the OP driving it home.

ffs ..the man was leniant.

Just because there are hundreds of "commercials" being driven around under false pretenses or thousands of L-drivers on motorways or without a fully licensed driver next to them doesn't mean that there is an automatic right for everyone to expect to be able to do the same and get away with it.

I'm sorry, I have to disagree. It's the usual small-minded crap, regarding the commercial issue. If he was actually going to do something i'd have more respect for him, but instead he mouthed off to put the frighteners on a 17 year-old. He can't have it both ways. It's ATTITUDE that is my problem with what he did. He didn't have the General at gunpoint behind the wheel.

I never said there was an automatic right to get away with anything.

peasant

overdriver wrote:

It's the usual small-minded crap, regarding the commercial issue. If he was actually going to do something i'd have more respect for him, but instead he mouthed off to put the frighteners on a 17 year-old.

See ..that's were I would disagree.

Forget about the commercials-thingy for a moment. The OP was out there driving unaccompanied. That's a clear offence. The Garda could have done all sorts there and then. Instead he, as you put it, "put the frighteners" on a young fella.

I don't know about you ...but during MY misspent youth, having "the frighteners" put on me convinced me much more into acting properly the next time than being "punished" outright. (Mostly because I could "sell" it to my rebellious self as being sensible rather than the stoopid eejit that got caught and had no other choice:D )

overdriver

We CAN'T leave aside the commercial thingy, because THAT'S what I have an issue with. My next post to the OP advises him to drive accompanied.

What we seem to be drifting towards is a police force who are more and more likely to tackle motorists on ever more piddling letter-of-the-law issues, or interpritations of same. It's not like there aren't other matters they would be best tending to, is it?

I do know what you're saying about mis-spent youth - and I agree to a degree- , but there's a difference between "frighteners" and a quiet but firm word, if you follow? The Garda ( and let's remember we're only going by the OP's version - neither of us were there!) might've gotten through with a lighter hand, and not created bad feeling toward the Gardai in general.

peasant

We CAN'T leave aside the commercial thingy, because THAT'S what I have an issue with. My next post to the OP advises him to drive accompanied.

Let me put it this way:

All the special rules for commercials, ie low VRT and cheap tax surely weren't brought in just so that the 17 year old OP could afford taking his friend for a spin on Paddies day in his "macho" pickup, were they?

The Garda would have a hard time and lot's of paperwork trying to "nail" him on it ...but I see no harm in mentioning it, ESPECIALLY as the OP clearly isn't a self employed craftsman with only one (commercial) vehicle to his name taking the missus for dinner on his day off, but a youngster clearly just out for the spin.

No harm mentioning, in my mind, that there is something just slightly fishy about the whole thing.

georgie59

Have to agree that it is an offence to drive on a provisional lic. without a qualified drive,

With waiting list so b***** long for a test is it any wonder that kids start driving on their own.

Garda trowing their weight around, does it happen yes it does couple of Garda don't paticularly like my son (20 with a full lic) and are often pulling him over last night he was parked in the town and told he has to go back in tomorrow night with (not sure what you call it a dark strip across the top of the windscreen removed) and his wheels changed (thats fair enough as the thread on the tryes was to low) the edjit tried tham on and didn't change them.

But it's really there attitude he was no way pleasent and told him if he decides to prosecute him with the new judge in this area now he could get a fine of up to 2,000 euros or loose his lic.

My point is he wasn't speeding or drinking or driving dangerously or any of the other serious offence that young people are accussed of, It's no wonder that alot of young lads head to Australis or uk to get away from the constant harassing they are facing at the hands of Garda who go OTT
I do ackknowledge that all Garda aren't like it but to many of them are

ballooba

Do the Gardai usually take so much interest in commercials?

Or is it just because this guy is so young? Might have to think twice about buying a commercial myself.

I don't see why you people have such an axe to grind with the OP when half the country is driving around on first provisionals and it is pretty much universally unenforced.

Seinas

Ive read all the replies and Im glad to see that some people know where I am coming from.

Oh i might also add that there was a guy in the back seat aswell...so, 3 of us.

peasant wrote:

It's either to justify driving a commercial ...seenashow your man is on business, why else would he have a business card ...

Or, it is to suitably inform any garda with who's daddy's lawyers they'd be messing if they applied the law

ammmmmm..............the latter :rolleyes:

georgie59 wrote:

Garda trowing their weight around, does it happen yes it does couple of Garda don't paticularly like my son (20 with a full lic) and are often pulling him over last night he was parked in the town and told he has to go back in tomorrow night with (not sure what you call it a dark strip across the top of the windscreen removed) and his wheels changed (thats fair enough as the thread on the tryes was to low) the edjit tried tham on and didn't change them.

a sunvisor...yep, I have a massive one of them aswell, and fancy numberplate....im surprised he didnt say anything about them

Stephen wrote:

You've no business driving a commercial without a licence anyway - what business would employ someone to drive without a licence?

amm im not employed...

georgie59

Forgot to say that he has to have new number plates on tomorrow night so don't know if he is supposed to break into a motor factor's to get new plates on a bank holiday or wave a magic wand His aren't that fancy plain letter on white background with 'Heny made this when he had balls' in small writing under neath they are perfectly legible and are not ones that canot be photographed when speeding

wingnut

I for one am glad to hear the garda are cracking down on stupid embellishments like fancy number plates and sunvisiors. There is always an excuse: its only slightly fancy, it dosen't really break the law that much. Is he supposed to break into a motor factors, no he is supposed to have a proper number plate on his car and keep it off the road untill he does so. He is not a victim, he is a person who thinks the rules do not apply to him.

How much garda time is wated on these muppets that just can't abide by the rules there for the safety of all? When I see a car tarted up with crap like those metal stickers on the fuel flap all I think is 'what an idiot'.

Lorax

Traffic corps and highway patrol wreck my head, just because Im young and drive a powerful car. Think they are jealous or something.

georgie59

Embellsihments on cars are often only an expression of their individuality, you wear clothes the same as everyone else as I said the plates were perfectly legible lettering not Itallic or any thing this state is becoming more like a dictatorship when you are not allowed to expresse your own indvidualisum. Maybe we should introduce a national uniform and all drive skodas

NUTLEY BOY

A few questions.

What specific law provides that you cannot drive a commercial vehicle for social domestic and pleasure (SD&P) purposes ?

There is a good chance that the insurance certificate on the vehicle covers SD&P use. Did the Garda read the insurance certificate when he stopped you OP ?

Do Gardai know how to read an insurance certificate properly ?

Why don't gardai prosecute more people for driving unaccompanied whilst driving on a first provisional ?

I thought that were was a Super' in the West of Ireland who also tried to prosecute the parents of young drivers operating on provisional licences whilst unaccompanied. Personally, I think he is dead right but is this actually happening ?

When can a Garda seize a vehicle ?

timmywex

look, the guard knew you were a 17 year old without a full licence whats the highest number of road accident victims ages??

he could have stopped you driving as you didnt have a fully qualified driver with you but he didnt!!he just sent you home

CLADA

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

A few questions.

What specific law provides that you cannot drive a commercial vehicle for social domestic and pleasure (SD&P) purposes ?

None, the fact that it is taxed commercially makes it a revenue issue, therefore driving it for non commercial purposes is a similar offence to driving it untaxed.

dil999

CLADA wrote:

None, the fact that it is taxed commercially makes it a revenue issue, therefore driving it for non commercial purposes is a similar offence to driving it untaxed.

Do you have any reference to that. I am not aware of anything that says you cannot drive a commercial for social/domestic purposes once its insured accordingly. Once it fulfils the requiremnets of a commercial vehicle you can only tax it commercially.

oleras

Seinas wrote:

I When I noticed it was the Traffic Corps i realised i might have a spot of trouble....................

Im all confused about it, so id like some help

What are you confused about ? You broke the law, You knew you were breaking the law at the time ! I would have taken it off you and made you walk home .............

CLADA

dil999 wrote:

Do you have any reference to that. I am not aware of anything that says you cannot drive a commercial for social/domestic purposes once its insured accordingly. Once it fulfils the requiremnets of a commercial vehicle you can only tax it commercially.

I never mentioned the insurance issue, if your vehicle is commercial but is insured for S,D & P purposes as well, then you can drive whenever you want. But if it is taxed commercially and you drive it for pleasure purposes then you are commiting a revenue offence. As I said in previous post, this is similar to driving an untaxed vehicle regardless of your insurance cover.

dil999

But if it is taxed commercially and you drive it for pleasure purposes then you are commiting a revenue offence.

My question is: what are you basing that statement on. I have never heard that before.

180jos180

ill tell ye wat he was doin notin only tormenin him bcos he was young.dey have done it to me several times in dat town ive been beaten by garda for no reason and harassed for no reason in broad daylight

Seinas

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

There is a good chance that the insurance certificate on the vehicle covers SD&P use. Did the Garda read the insurance certificate when he stopped you OP ?

I keep a copy of the insurance cert with me and he never asked for it. I think it may be covered for SD&P use, im not too sure. So that means that i ament breaking the law, just commiting a revenue offence?

timmywex wrote:

look, the guard knew you were a 17 year old without a full licence whats the highest number of road accident victims ages??

thats just stereotyping, im not a boy racer, i dont speed.....the on board computer could tell him I dont speed...

dil999

there is a section titled something like "limitations as to use" its should say Use for social domestic amd pleasure puposes.

The problem is if you are driving on a 1st prov licence then you must have a fully licenced driver accompany you. Otherwise you are not licenced to drive and are actually breaking the law. That being said I don't know anyone who has not driven alone on a first or 3rd provisional (myself excluded obviously

I am fairly sure you are okay with revenue to drive a commercial viehicle for pleasure purpose as long as you are insured. I know that if you are doing tax return and you use the same vehicle for domestic and business then you claim 85% of you motor costs for business and the other 15% are regarded as social/domestic, So I doubt its a revenue offence to drive a commercially taxed vehicle socially. I could be wrong though

Esel

180jos180 wrote:

ill tell ye wat he was doin notin only tormenin him bcos he was young.dey have done it to me several times in dat town ive been beaten by garda for no reason and harassed for no reason in broad daylight

I would be tempted to beat you for typing like that. Bring back the cat I say! :rolleyes:

KeRbDoG

Firstly, get your full licence asap.
Secondly, we all have off days. He might have just been at a large accident. He could have just taken ****e from another motorist.

dil999

esel wrote:

I would be tempted to beat you for typing like that. Bring back the cat I say! :rolleyes:

Take it easy. He may be typographically challenged

oleras

Seinas wrote:

the on board computer could tell him I dont speed...

How could it do that ? Does it keep max speed recorded or average speed on this journey ?

BostonB

Kaiser2000 wrote:

One point here if I may. This story once again highlights the attitude problem many of the Gardai (traffic corps or otherwise) seem to have with the general public. Regardless of the circumstances, there is absolutely no cause nor justification for a Garda to be rude, "smart", or generally throwing their weight about just because they have a badge.

Someone else mentioned on the other thread that it's almost as if the public is an inconvenience to them, and stories like this merely reinforce that.

I'll say it again, the need to "standardise" the enforcement of the law (thus doing away with the "it depends who you get on the day" phenomenon) starts with a clean sweep of the Gardai, from the rank and file officers to the top level Garda Comissioner.

Until then we'll continue to have this keystone cops brigade that passes for a police force in this country!

(For balance: no, I realise that not all Gardai behave in this manner or are incompetent, but there's enough of them that are in my opinion that it's high time action was taken to weed them out).

Couldn't agree more. There's attitude problem with a lot of Gardai.

Seth Brundle

Im not sure why the OP think they were treated unfairly.
The vehicle was a commercial and therefore got reduced VRT and road tax. I presume the company is also reclaiming the VAT on the diesel.
The garda gave you a warning - consider yourself lucky that you weren't given some form of punishment.

dgosul

You shouldn't be allowed on the road in the first place with a provisional licence,laws are too relaxed here. Full licence or take the bus. Posing around town in Daddies 07.

Guy:Incognito

georgie59 wrote:

Forgot to say that he has to have new number plates on tomorrow night so don't know if he is supposed to break into a motor factor's to get new plates on a bank holiday or wave a magic wand His aren't that fancy plain letter on white background with 'Heny made this when he had balls' in small writing under neath they are perfectly legible and are not ones that canot be photographed when speeding

Why doesnt he use the ones that came on the car before they were changed for illegal ones?

180jos180 wrote:

ill tell ye wat he was doin notin only tormenin him bcos he was young.dey have done it to me several times in dat town ive been beaten by garda for no reason and harassed for no reason in broad daylight

Obvioulsy not hard enough.



As far as commercial policies go, do you not have to have a full licence for a commercial policy?

Victor

georgie59 wrote:

Embellsihments on cars are often only an expression of their individuality, you wear clothes the same as everyone else as I said the plates were perfectly legible lettering not Itallic or any thing this state is becoming more like a dictatorship when you are not allowed to expresse your own indvidualisum. Maybe we should introduce a national uniform and all drive skodas

So how about embellishing you driving licence or passport?

180jos180 wrote:

ill tell ye wat he was doin notin only tormenin him bcos he was young.dey have done it to me several times in dat town ive been beaten by garda for no reason and harassed for no reason in broad daylight

What does that mean?

Seinas

dgosul wrote:

Posing around town in Daddies 07.

its mine, not his