Medicine, Pharmacy, Dentistry, Veterinary

md99

Our principal who is wise beyond his age (...........yes I am being sarcastic) advised parents in our year at the CAO to always fill professions in your CAO that you'd never even dream of getting the points for, a la Medicine, Dentistry etc... He gave himself as an example, saying that he wanted to do teaching, but put medicine first, dentistry second, pharmacy third...

Yes, this is our PRINCIPAL.

Anyhow, question is, if YOU got 600 points, would you do the course that you genuinely want to do (that could be worth say, 400 points for ex.) or would you spring for the big bucks?, ie choose medicine, whatever, just because of its prestige even though you have no interest in the job itself?

I was inspired to make this by the amount of (mainly hopeless) candidates who are very open about the choices they stand little chance of getting :rolleyes:

Not that I have anything against those who actually do get it, of course.

PurpleFistMixer

Definitely not. I couldn't stand doing any of those jobs, and I think choosing your career solely on how much money it's gonna earn you is just.. wrong, on a fundamental level.

I think people are concerned about the prestige of their course though. I know people put off going to colleges of further education that hold the course they want, because they're worried people will think they're thick for going there. It's a bit of a shame because some little-known places have some really interesting courses but they're immediately assumed to be for people who failed their lc or whatnot.

JC 2K3

I'm casually aiming for over 550, but I only need 355.

Nehpets

I wouldn't do Medicine, Pharmacy, Dentistry, Veterinary (but if I was forced to do one from those four it would be medicine.) even if the points were 200.

I need mid-300s at minimum but I'm not aiming that far over them. I don't see a point

Mushy

JC2K3 wrote:

I'm casually aiming for over 550, but I only need 355

What do you intend doing? And "casually" aiming for 550, never knew anyone could do such a thing.

With 600 points, I'd still do what I want(primary teaching, despite not even putting it down on my cao). No point in pushing up demand for courses you've no interest in

Steve01

As appealing as the money sounds I'd much rather go for something I actually want to do. Hence, law...

JC 2K3

Mushy wrote:

What do you intend doing? And "casually" aiming for 550, never knew anyone could do such a thing.

"casually" because I don't need it, but it'd be nice. I'm basically not working my ass off, but I'm steadily making an effort.

And I wanna do Computer Science.

md99

Mushy wrote:

And "casually" aiming for 550, never knew anyone could do such a thing.

With the right subject mix, it's very possible, eg a maths/science whiz can take maths, applied maths, all the sciences etc... and cruise into elite results.

I'm more of a languages fella so it's not as easy for me!

md99

Steve01 wrote:

As appealing as the money sounds I'd much rather go for something I actually want to do. Hence, law...

law is usually quite a profitable area if I'm not mistaken!

JC 2K3

md99 wrote:

With the right subject mix, it's very possible, eg a maths/science whiz can take maths, applied maths, all the sciences etc... and cruise into elite results.

I'm more of a languages fella so it's not as easy for me!

You could do Irish, English, 4 other languages and OL maths......

md99

JC 2K3 wrote:

You could do Irish, English, 4 other languages and OL maths......

A little awkward learning four other languages my school doesn't teach though.

JC 2K3

Who are the two that voted the second option?

JC 2K3

md99 wrote:

A little awkward learning four other languages my school doesn't teach though.

Well I'm sure they do at least 2 foreign ones, and you could do another one outside school or on your own(like myself with App Maths) - that's 5 languages...

Nehpets

God I hate languages, well I suppose I don't hate them but meh

JC 2K3

I hate em too.

eZe^

md99 wrote:

With the right subject mix, it's very possible, eg a maths/science whiz can take maths, applied maths, all the sciences etc... and cruise into elite results.

I'm more of a languages fella so it's not as easy for me!

Hahah, thats me (bar the whiz thing), I made the choice of doing bio, chem, phys and took up applied math at the start of 6th year for the craic. Ive got 5 sciencey subjects, so as long as I can pull off the B in eng/fre Ill be grand.

Em, I doubt I would wanna do any of those courses, if I got 600 I would definitely consider studying actuary in England. Minted!!

Steve01

JC 2K3 wrote:

Who are the two that voted the second option?

There's three of them now. You people ought to be ashamed of yourselves! :rolleyes:

Mushy

Make that 4 who'd want to be ashamed of themselves. My gf wants to do medicine though, so guess she needs 600. Guess I'm kinda distracting her by now

yurmothrintites

The fact is if you really wanted a course with high oints you would work extremely hard for it otherwise you won't push yourself furthur than you need to go!

Speaking of Medicine...

Irish Examiner 14/03/2007

www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=27696-qqqx=1.asp



Students to qualify for medicine without top marks



STUDENTS entering fifth year next autumn will be the first to qualify for medical school places without achieving top marks in their Leaving Certificate, Education Minister Mary Hanafin has announced.

The minister will reveal details later this month of the CAO points students will need — in combination with their performance in an aptitude test — to be eligible for undergraduate medicine courses.

Ms Hanafin and Health Minister Mary Harney are awaiting the final report of an expert group which is examining the issue but it is expected that the cut-off point will be at around 450 points out of a maximum of 600.



The outcome of the final report will be unveiled in the coming weeks by Ms Hanafin. She said the changes will be introduced in time for students sitting the Leaving Certificate in 2009.

The minister said she is not disappointed that the changes will come into effect two years after the lifetime of the present Government which made a commitment in 2002 to address the distortion of the points system caused by medicine and other health science degree courses.

“I’d prefer to have delayed and do it right rather than do it wrong. This is a major change for the way the CAO system works and has the potential to be very fair for students who have the aptitude to do medicine,” Ms Hanafin said.

Statistics, published last week by the CAO, suggest that points requirements for medicine may rise again this August as applications up to last month’s deadline were up by 13% on last year.

The least points with which students were accepted into any of the country’s five medical schools in the 2006 first round of offers was 570.

Ms Hanafin said that a number of other measures were already in place to ease the pressure faced by school leavers hoping to pursue a medical career.

These include an increase of 110 places for undergraduate medical students last year and next autumn, bringing the numbers for Irish and other EU students to 420.

The figure had been capped at 310 since the 1970s, meaning the Government now has to effectively buy back these extra places from the medical schools, who previously filled them with fee-paying non-EU students.

The Government is also setting up a graduate med- icine scheme, with more than 500 people applying for the first 60 places being made available next autumn. Vacancies will rise to 240 over the next three years, and Ms Hanafin will also announce which colleges will offer the graduate courses in the coming weeks.

The minister said it was worrying for the economy that last week’s application statistics showed a drop in the numbers of young people applying for science and technology degree courses. For level 8 (honours bachelor degrees) courses, applications for engineering and technology fell by 22% with a 5% drop in numbers seeking entry to science programmes.

Naikon

Myth wrote:

The minister said it was worrying for the economy that last week’s application statistics showed a drop in the numbers of young people applying for science and technology degree courses. For level 8 (honours bachelor degrees) courses, applications for engineering and technology fell by 22% with a 5% drop in numbers seeking entry to science programmes.

This is the best Education article I have read all year:D

nedward

There's 5.

Pure Cork

What a joke! I've come across people like that whove said things like "Nobody here should go to *IT. Everyone should go to an Ivy League university like UCC or TCD." Absolute bull.

Choosing a profession based on "prestige" is f-ing ridiculous. Isn't that one of the reasons they're bringing in an assessment for certain courses like medicine, becasue they were getting unsuitable people?

"Prestige" doesn't equal money.

JC 2K3

^Why not IT? IT is an area of massive oppertunity....

Steve01

JC 2K3 wrote:

^Why not IT? IT is an area of massive oppertunity....

Exactly. Don't be fooled into thinking IT courses are substandard just because the points are low. Demand for IT graduates among employers has never been higher and money prospects are damn good too.

PurpleFistMixer

I think by *IT they meant <Any letter>IT as in, DIT, LIT, some otherIT.

JC 2K3

Oooooohhhhhhh....

Steve01

Oh yeah... sorry bout that :rolleyes: I keep hearing the words 'IT' (as in information technology) and 'massive opportunity' being used in the same sentence. Then again the topic of the post should have been a dead giveaway

eZe^

Physics for life baby!

Robbiethe3rd

Just reading this I think youre being a bit cruel, I got 600 points and am doing medicine; but I only got those points BECAUSE I wanted to do medicine, if I didnt have to, i certainly wouldnt have worked that hard, there a lot better paying jobs out there than doctors and vets and you'd be foolish to choose either of them for money; you wouldnt make it through the course if it was just for money!

JC 2K3

^It's not aimed at people like you.

md99

Robbiethe3rd wrote:

Just reading this I think youre being a bit cruel, I got 600 points and am doing medicine; but I only got those points BECAUSE I wanted to do medicine, if I didnt have to, i certainly wouldnt have worked that hard, there a lot better paying jobs out there than doctors and vets and you'd be foolish to choose either of them for money; you wouldnt make it through the course if it was just for money!

A lot better paying true... but you can't really put Directing, Producing, Pornstarring down on your CAO....

Seriously, obviously things like owning your own business etc will bring in bigger bucks, but those high point careers usually have the greatest potential for moneymaking... or income per head? I mean even considering the fact that a GP gets €50 for just a checkup, which can sometimes involve just writing a prescription.. Income per head is usually very high in these careers. I mean, according to my parents they got around €70k a year interning. Beats the €183.50 a week the Guards give ya!

Steve01

md99 wrote:

but you can't really put Pornstarring down on your CAO....

God dammit! Why are the best jobs so hard to get in to:rolleyes:

cocoa

Robbiethe3rd wrote:

Just reading this I think youre being a bit cruel, I got 600 points and am doing medicine; but I only got those points BECAUSE I wanted to do medicine, if I didnt have to, i certainly wouldnt have worked that hard, there a lot better paying jobs out there than doctors and vets and you'd be foolish to choose either of them for money; you wouldnt make it through the course if it was just for money!

yes, and hence so many drop outs and the need to fix the system so less unsuitable people are misguided into choosing medicine.
I'm still getting results in, but looking at around 535 in my mocks, my first choice is CA in DCU which will require 300 points, not because entrants will have that many, but because not all the places will be filled. I have no interest in medicine, so I won't bother. The only high points course I might have enjoyed was actuarial mathematics, but I decided I didn't want to narrow my options so much.
Anyone who takes the view that points are currency, and it's best to spend as many as you can, is damn stupid and on the road to ruin.

Shox

eZe^ wrote:

Em, I doubt I would wanna do any of those courses, if I got 600 I would definitely consider studying actuary in England. Minted!!

Thats the course im going for at the moment, actuary in UCD, need to put a lot more work in tho if im gonna get it!!

And cocoa I dont think doin actuarial mathematics would narrow your options too much, there are loads of options off it!

cocoa

Shox wrote:

And cocoa I dont think doin actuarial mathematics would narrow your options too much, there are loads of options off it!

umm, yeah, I can see how being able to work out the probability of someone dying would be extremely useful in many professions...

md99

cocoa wrote:

umm, yeah, I can see how being able to work out the probability of someone dying would be extremely useful in many professions...

Well, despite your sarcasm, I think most people can see that it WOULD be useful...

What's the pay for actuary like, guys? I was recommended to do it, doubt I will though coz my heart is set on Law.

InFront

Pure Cork wrote:

Choosing a profession based on "prestige" is f-ing ridiculous. Isn't that one of the reasons they're bringing in an assessment for certain courses like medicine, becasue they were getting unsuitable people?

No, it's a publicity stunt, it makes them look good. There's a rubbish misconception that some people have that people who get high points are more likely to be bad doctors. In fact, getting the points says nothing about your bedside manner or medical practice whatsoever; it means that you worked hard, and you got lucky. I don't see how introducing an aptitude test is going to make things better - better how? What's wrong with the system as it is? If they want to increase access into medicine, and they want more Doctors, stop leaning on non-EEA students to run the medical schools and appoint more places. (That costs money)

cocoa

md99 wrote:

Well, despite your sarcasm, I think most people can see that it WOULD be useful...

ok... a pure maths degree being open to new directions I can just about imagine, but a degree in one particular area of maths? Seriously, apart from making the drastic change between legal actuary and office actuary (gasp!) I fail to see how it's flexible. Sure, in today's world you could go on and study something entirely different, but had you chosen a more open degree, you could already be a little way down that path...
Seriously, without waffle, tell me what about a degree in actuarial mathematics is easily transferable to another profession, excluding skills learned in any course...

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Pure Cork wrote:

"Prestige" doesn't equal money.

I think you'll find that it often does.

People who go to the more prestigous universities have much better oppurtunities to make very valuable connections which make the road to the big money much easier.

Obviously it's not impossible to get there through hard work, but personally I'd prefer the easier option.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

cocoa wrote:

umm, yeah, I can see how being able to work out the probability of someone dying would be extremely useful in many professions...

Ever heard of Investment Banking, Fund Managment and any other extremely high paying jobs in the finance industry?

It may not be useful for being a builder or a secretary, but it would appear to me anyway to have a particular relevance in quite a few jobs which are more lucrative than most.

JC 2K3

I never understood the whole prestige thing. I mean I'm from a good area, have a good background and I suppose I have "valuable connections", as you put it. However, I don't want that. I don't believe I should have an advantage over anyone else. The lack of integrity in today's world is sickening....

Thomas_S_Hunterson

JC 2K3 wrote:

I never understood the whole prestige thing. I mean I'm from a good area, have a good background and I suppose I have "valuable connections", as you put it. However, I don't want that. I don't believe I should have an advantage over anyone else. The lack of integrity in today's world is sickening....

That's entirelly your personal preference, but at the end of the day, it's a big bad world out there, and if you waste the oppurtunities afforded to you by your background, nobody else is going to stand upand thank you for it. Someone else will take them.

Personally I have no problem with the old boy networking.

Pure Cork

InFront: "No, it's a publicity stunt, it makes them look good. There's a rubbish misconception that some people have that people who get high points are more likely to be bad doctors. In fact, getting the points says nothing about your bedside manner or medical practice whatsoever; it means that you worked hard, and you got lucky. I don't see how introducing an aptitude test is going to make things better - better how?"
WTF are you on about? An aptitude test would help select people who are suited to a profession. Why should some people be excluded because they didn't get 600 points when they might be more suitable?


sean keevey: "I think you'll find that it often does.

People who go to the more prestigous universities have much better oppurtunities to make very valuable connections which make the road to the big money much easier.

Obviously it's not impossible to get there through hard work, but personally I'd prefer the easier option."
Bull. Prestige associated with colleges is rubbish, it's down to individuals. There is no "easy" option. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Bill Gates never worked a day in his life.

Investment banking? 70hr week? You're actually being underpaid in that job.

JC 2K3

sean_keevey wrote:

That's entirelly your personal preference, but at the end of the day, it's a big bad world out there, and if you waste the oppurtunities afforded to you by your background, nobody else is going to stand upand thank you for it. Someone else will take them.

Personally I have no problem with the old boy networking.

Meh, money doesn't run my life. I reserve the right to "waste" any unfair advantages I'm given.

I'm never going to work directly in finance or business, however, so I probably won't be offered these oppertunities...

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Pure Cork wrote:

Bull. Prestige associated with colleges is rubbish, it's down to individuals. There is no "easy" option. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Bill Gates never worked a day in his life.

Investment banking? 70hr week? You're actually being underpaid in that job.

£20 million christmas bonus and you're underpaid??? It all boils down tohow good you are.

I know the inequality may be hard to stomach, but at the end of the day, if I go to Private School and then one of the elite universities like Harvard or Cambridge, I'm going to make contacts that will put me ahead in life, be that putting me in contact with people that make things happen or favours down the line.

It may not represent perfect moral equality, but life ain't fair and we get on with it.

JC 2K3

Lol, the old "life ain't fair so I'm gonna stop caring about anything besides my own welfare" attitude.

Ever considered the notion that money!=happiness?

Pure Cork

In my opinion, investment banking, despite the financial rewards, is a sh*t job. I would prefer a good life.

You don't have to go to a private school to go to places like CIT, MIT, Imperial, Yale, Stanford. You don't have to go to your so-called "elite" colleges (or to college at all) to become minted. I know about both sides.

You're not the only one with connections.

Do you still believe there is an "easy option"?

AdMMM

Bull. Prestige associated with colleges is rubbish, it's down to individuals. There is no "easy" option. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Bill Gates never worked a day in his life.

In fact, in a recent enough survey SME's who were surveyed stated that oftentimes it's not the type of degree that matters but moreso where you obtained it. I'll admit that this may not be primarily because of the "prestige" of the University and may just be the result of a manager also attending a certain college but that just goes on to solidify the argument that contacts do matter.

cocoa

sean_keevey wrote:

Ever heard of Investment Banking, Fund Managment and any other extremely high paying jobs in the finance industry?

my point exactly, if I were to choose actuarial mathematics, I would be looking at something in finance or starting again, whereas with my current choice (CA in DCU) I can get all the maths I want, +a solid grounding in computers (used all over, hence more transferable) and the course itself is adaptable so I can adapt my study to the areas I become interested in.

in response to the prestige discussion:
I think you'll find that what's more important when you're trying to get a job than which college you went to is having an impressive and relevant final year project and even more important, showing an interest and doing a good interview.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

JC 2K3 wrote:

Ever considered the notion that money!=happiness?

Of course, it's foolish to think that money does bring happiness, but at the same time I can't imagine poverty would ring a whole lot of happiness otherwise people would all be living on the streets, and money brings a whole lot of comfort.

Pure Cork wrote:

You don't have to go to a private school to go to places like CIT, MIT, Imperial, Yale, Stanford. You don't have to go to your so-called "elite" colleges (or to college at all) to become minted. I know about both sides.

I never said you had to go to private school to go to one of those universities, nor did I say you have to go to an elite university to get minted, all I'm saying is it helps quite a bit, depending on your chosen course in life. Obviously there'll be those of extreme entrepreneurial aptitude who'll drop out of school at sixteen and make a billion by the time there thirty, but for the rest of us we need to make ourselves employable through education.

Pure Cork wrote:

Do you still believe there is an "easy option"?

Of course there's an easy option. People can can get fast-tracked to employment by calling in favours. There'll still be hard work but it certainly helps. You'd be amazed by the types of deals that are made based on classroom loyalties.

cocoa wrote:

my point exactly, if I were to choose actuarial mathematics, I would be looking at something in finance or starting again, whereas with my current choice (CA in DCU) I can get all the maths I want, +a solid grounding in computers (used all over, hence more transferable) and the course itself is adaptable so I can adapt my study to the areas I become interested in.

There's also careers in managment, consultancy, economics, science etc available because the courses do not focus solely on being an actuary, they focus on Actuarial Mathematics/Science, finance and economics.