E-Flight Blade CP

Cmar-Ireland

I've carried out a bit of research, and it seem that the Blade CP is the most popular elec trainer heli. What is the general opinion on them from you guys?
Plenty available for around $200 with 72mhz tx on ebay.
I think they are 72mhz, will 72mhz be a problem over here?
How does that price sound?

Cheers

The Doktor

I wouldnt waste my time with that heli, unless you have a large indoor area to use it in. Get somthing a little bigger.
72Mhz is not used for models here. You need to use 35Mhz for flying models in Ireland.

Cmar-Ireland

Any suggestions for a bigger trainer Doktor?

coolwings

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

I've carried out a bit of research, and it seem that the Blade CP is the most popular elec trainer heli. .....

I know over 50 Irish heli fliers personally and none have a Blade.
Did you do your research in Ireland?

Some Irish modellers helis:
My pal flies a Logo 10 completely tricked out, a Logo 14 Carbon, a Twister 3D all brushless. He used to have an Eco 8 and a T-Rex (possibly still has the T-Rex).

I fly mainly planes with fixed wing, but I got myself an Apache AH-60 last week for indoors flying. I gave him one flight on the Apache and he got one for himself the same day!

Another pal flies a 60 size Uni Star 60 Heim also tricked out scale, into a Bell 230. He "borrowed" a flight on my Apache and he got himself one within two days even though it looks tiny beside his big glowfuel heli.

Maybe not the answer to your needs, but then again maybe it is.

Here is the link. There is a video (with a soundtrack specially chosen for boards members )
Apache flying 4.8Mb filesize

The Doktor

Any of the ones Coolwings mentioned are good, I have a Zoom 400 (now a zoom450) among others.
Those helis you get with the transmitter an all are generally ****e. Mate of mine got one very similar, and it wouldnt actually lift off the ground, as pitch/throttle curves could not be changed.
If you want to get into helis, you wont get away with cheap ass stuff.
Do a bit more research and look at Irish and UK websites and see whats there.
Look at the likes of www.modelhelicopters.co.uk or www.helicopters-online.com. I also hear green hobby are good.
Most of these places will not sell ****e, as it only ends up comming back to them.
See what they are have on their stock lists, and what fits in your budget.

coolwings

Funny you saying that about the Zoom 400.
I bought one last year for myself... a Micro Star 400. (which is the same as the Zoom 400).
But I was talked out of it by a heli flying pal who wanted it off me. So I swopped it for one of his models, a plane.
It took a year for me to get the heli juices flowing again, and the result was the Apache, which is a bit smaller, and less aerobatic, but probably more suitable for indoors flying at home.

The Doktor

coolwings wrote:

Funny you saying that about the Zoom 400.
I bought one last year for myself... a Micro Star 400. (which is the same as the Zoom 400).
But I was talked out of it by a heli flying pal who wanted it off me. So I swopped it for one of his models, a plane.
It took a year for me to get the heli juices flowing again, and the result was the Apache, which is a bit smaller, and less aerobatic, but probably more suitable for indoors flying at home.

Dunno why, the zoom is a great yoke. Never given me any trouble, except when I crash it. Its easy to fly (easy as any heli), and easy to set up. Also there is more hop ups out there than you can shake a stick at...
I got a fair few hop ups added on, including brushless motor (which really brings it alive).
I got it from a mate who was selling helis for a while, and at the time he decided only to stock zooms, cos they gave him no grief comming back.

coolwings

Basically a Zoom 400 / Micro Star 400 / Twister 3D is a "400" size heli, most suited for outdoors like a back garden.
A gymnasium or hall is also very good for this size when it is in capable hands.

I would say myself that the collective pitch makes for a nice heli, but is not suitable for a beginner who cannot already fly fixed wing (airplanes), and that a beginner who gets one is out of their depth and will be forced into also purchasing a flight simulater software.

With the fixed pitch helis the raw beginner can get stuck in learning to fly with no need for instructors, sims, or their like.

CMAR : My suggestion would be an Apache, (look at the video and judge for yourself) or a Twister V2, slightly more expensive, but with the extra moving parts in the tail.

Then after you can fly either of these, if you are still into helis, get a more serious one, like the Blade you were looking at (I wouldn't myself - god knows where you get parts for them) a Zoom 400 / Micro Star 400/ Twister 3D, or even bigger still be nice to yourself and get a Logo 10.
But those are not suitable for now. MODEL HELIS ARE FAR HARDER THAN YOU THINK (if you don't already know how to fly).

So it is easy to believe all the crap in the internet shops about "this collective pitch is easy to fly" and buy something that you totally trash in under 12 seconds. A reasonable comparision is that a CP heli is the same difficulty as for instance the guitar, or a unicycle, or swimming the breast stroke. It is an advanced skill that takes time to build up.

Also you will not be able to properly set up a CP rotor head for proper operation without help, unless you have learned first with something simpler. A video or manual will not be enough.

Easier and cheaper to learn on the correct basic stuff first. Then move up to advanced stuff.

Cmar-Ireland

Is there a basic heli out there for "scale" style flying? I wouldn't be interested in 3d, just something basic to fly around the yard.
Of those mentioned, would any suit? What kind of price range for entry?

I do not like the counter rotating stuff at all, would prefer a proper looking heli.

coolwings

Sure there is ... as described in my last post!

coolwings wrote:

CMAR : My suggestion would be an Apache, (look at the video and judge for yourself) or a Twister V2 .... with the extra moving parts in the tail.

:-)

Cmar-Ireland

Norman,
What do you think of this?
http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_guide/kitprofile.cfm?kit_id=3666

v. popular in the US

coolwings

Looks reminiscent to a Twister v2.
But where are you going to get parts for it?
You do plan to fly it, I assume, so you will break parts when flying.
Those bits are no use to you 2000 miles away when you just hit the ground with a bit more bump than usual ! You order, wait weeks, get, fit, and then break another small bit after ten - thirty minutes!

The wardrobes (and dustbins) of Ireland are full of wrecked helis where their owners couldnt stand the heat! Don't make it harder for yourself by adding extra complications. There are plenty enough problems there already ... the ten thumbs holding the sticks!

I think you are still reading brochures ... it's interesting but nothing to do with reality .... you need to read back very carefully - pay attention to what the heli guys here are actually using now... you see, they have done the research too, and they know more than you what is important and what is not.

Think about uninterrupted continuity of practise flying sessions and you will begin to get it .....

The Doktor

Cmar, Listen to coolwings.. he speaks the truth.....
I would agree about the collective pitch thing, unless you have someone to show you how to set it up, and keep it set up. I was lucky in that I had a friend who could help me all the time.
I have 3 helis. A nitro one (hirobo sceadu), an mini electric (zoom 400) and a fixed pitch hmmingbird.
The most important thing is parts. Each one of the above I can have parts in a day or two. I can get them on the net from the UK or I can drive to a few places in Ireland if i want them sooner.

The first heli I got was the sceadu, and to be honest, I went the wrong way and should have started with somthing simpler. Thing is the hummingbird (similar to the ones you gave links for) will only be flown outdoors if there is NO wind. The zoom can be taken out most of the time in the summer. Some of the yokes Coolwings mentioned are very similar. Looking back, I would have liked to start off with the zoom.
Answer me this question... where will you fly your heli??

You are welcome to have a look at the helis I have any time because, as coolwings says, most helis end up in a box somewhere after the first few mins on flying.

Cmar-Ireland

It's one of those situations, do I spend the money to get something decent, and take a chance that I'll have the interest to keep at it.
I was hoping to get into something for under 200 to see if I'd like it. I'm going to look out for a Twister and go from there.
I'm in monasterevin, so the curragh is only 10 mins away. The Newbridge flyer's club is there every weekend, so hopefully I can get some tuition.

Cheers

Cmar-Ireland

I have been looking for a twister cp v2, so I found one that I can get for €180 delivered. It's brand new, with two 1000mah lipo's & charger. Plus a spare set of main rotors. Is that a good price. I'll be buying this evening if ye reckon it is a good one.

coolwings

So you're went for a collective head. Okeedokee.

Welcome to learning the trapeze without a safety net !
You can break your wallet instead of your bones!
Have fun!

Don't forget to tell us how long your first flight lasts.
PS If you can already fly ... the last bit does not apply!

Cmar-Ireland

Oh I didn't buy anything yet! I've just re read the replies, so now I understand that a twister cp is the collective pitch head. Is it a lot more difficult to learn on one with cp? I do have patience when it comes to stuff like that. I realise I wont be flying around the garden in a few day, I'm prepared to put in the effort.

Should I let this one go and look for a non cp heli?

Cheers

syl77

With a collective head theres just a bit more to do in setting it up....
You have to setup a throttle/pitch curve.... starting of have no negative pitch, this will stop you doing a 'chop stick' in case you get into trouble.
As for flying with a collective, it is a little more sensitive, however theres nothing stoping you setting the same pitch accross the board....
Having some one to show you starting off would help, however if there is non, read up on them, theres loads of useful info on the web.

coolwings

With or without CP is like
the difference between
what suits "can already fly" (CP) people and "learning to fly" (fixed) people

If you get fixed pitch you an fly within a week.
If you get CP and can fly it also takes about a week to get the hang of it.
If you get CP and can't fly you need a friend, or simulator, or cash for lots of rotors.

If you get fixed pitch you will master it, enjoy, then outgrow it. Follow up with CP.

Of those who get CP plenty fall by the wayside, the remainder get help, master it, and possibly don't move up, or possibly do.

Flyers who get CP say "what is all the fuss about?" It is just a new model to them, with new difficulties to master, but nothing too difficult.

Does this help?

The Doktor

syl77 wrote:

You have to setup a throttle/pitch curve.... starting of have no negative pitch, this will stop you doing a 'chop stick' in case you get into trouble.

Ah ... thats what yed think isnt it?? But if you look at the Heli in question, that comes with the transmitter.... Its factory set, and cant be changed!!

Looking at the instructions, what it says to do is preset the pitch of the rotors by actually moving them physically.
Mate of mine got one of these and I found that when you increased the throttle, the pitch did not change very much at all. In fact, it would not take off. I adjusted it so it would, but really ment it was not much different than a fixed pitch. Its now at the bottom of a wardrobe.

The only way to make that heli worth using, it to buy it, rip out all the electronics, except the servo, and put in your own reciver + gyro and use your own transmitter.


At least if you buy a cheaper fixed pitch heli and transmitter, you wont have those worries, as all it means is the faster the rotor goes, the more lift you get.

Cmar-Ireland

Wow...there is a lot to digest in this thread.
So for a budget of €200, what would be best to go for? I really dont like the look of the twin counter rotor stuff.

Or is €200 not enough to get anything decent?

Cheers!

The Doktor

The way I see it is you have a choice.

1. Buy the one you are looking at. From my experience, as it comes with a pre set transmitter, you will have problems.

2. Buy a cheap fixed pitch one, which in reality has more of a chance of working, as you dont need to worry about curves. (there is a twister fixed pitch)

3. Spend more money than you intended, get a nice heli, nice transmitter.

Now as coolwings says you may loose interest. And I really beilve you will if you go for option 1.
If you go for option 3, you may loose interest, which would suck cos you spent a load of money.
But if you go for 2... you havent spent a fortune if you loose interest, there is less things to worry about setting up, And more than likely you will get to fly.
What you think coolwings, would ya agree?

I went for option 3... I was lucky, i didnt loose interest. But it was a very steep learning curve for me.

Cmar-Ireland

My budget is limited a little because I recently dropped €400 on a Revo and €200 on a Spektrum DX3.0

The Doktor

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

My budget is limited a little because I recently dropped €400 on a Revo and €200 on a Spektrum DX3.0

Option 2 for you then?:D

Im off out to me workshop to put some blue aluminium bits on me zoom.....:rolleyes:

coolwings

The Doktor wrote:

.... would ya agree?
I went for option 3... I was lucky, i didnt loose interest. But it was a very steep learning curve for me.

I see it very much the same.

If you want a smaller heli to keep the cost down, stay away from a tiny CP job. In this size the simpler Twister V2 would be fine, but so would a "coax" like the Apache, Bell etc.

If you insist on CP, then move up a size, so the more complex moving components have a bit of strength in them. Zoom 400, Micro Star 400, Twixter 3D are all good.
So it cost a bit more to do it right? Well life sucks, dunnit !

Every person that is in helis after a few years is not "normal" like the average beginner. You see, all the "average" beginners got weeded out by trying to do it with no skill, no practise, on the cheap, or a funny heli that they couldn't get parts for. Well a year later they are all gone. All of them.

We have seen so many folks say "well I havent got much money to spare, I want my car, beer, holiday, night out, etc, etc. So I want a low cost model, with the cheap radio, and so on."
Yes right ... and I'd like a Ferrari too!

Well you know what. You can't negotiate gravity down to a lower level by shopping on ebay, or wishful thinking, or hope. Beginners can't ask the ground to retreat from their plunging model because they pretended they couldn't afford a better engine.

Gravity sucks their model down to the ground faster than it sucks ours. Cos we bought some decent power for ours, and we control them better with better components.

There are no liars or posers in model flying, they are all gone, or they haven't crashed it yet but they are getting ready to crash. Model fliers are very practical people. Like boating people who know you can't negotiate with the sea, you live with it in whatever mood it throws at you.

We have seen it all so many times it's sort of pitiful and boring at the same time.

We kinda know (the outcome) in one glance at the beginners choice of gear when he arrives at the flying field. But the established fliers hand out the advise out fresh every time. The instructors instruct and gently suggest that this or that be replaced before something fails. And the "newbie" decides for themselves if they will survive or fail in this hobby. They always do.

A gentle suggestion: if it costs more to get a decent one that flies right, do without something else, or save up a bit longer.

coolwings

The Doktor wrote:

Option 2 for you then?:D

Im off out to me workshop to put some blue aluminium bits on me zoom.....:rolleyes:

Nothing satisfies like lots of SHINY BLING on a heli, eh?

Cmar-Ireland

What about the Align T-Rex? Spares seem to be plentiful on ebay.

(Giving myself a higher budget....!)

The Doktor

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

What about the Align T-Rex? Spares seem to be plentiful on ebay.

(Giving myself a higher budget....!)

ment to be good alright, very similar to the zoom.
give me a few of the links you are looking at on ebay.

Cmar-Ireland

The Doktor wrote:

ment to be good alright, very similar to the zoom.
give me a few of the links you are looking at on ebay.

I just typed in align in the radio controlled section on ebay. It brought up about 40 hits.

syl77

Ebay can be useful, and one area would be parts. I wouldnt however buy a second hand heli and radio from it as i think your only buying some one elses problems. New kits - ok!

Align make some nice helis, the 450 is gr8 from the basic X version up to the new SE V2. looking at buying the new 600 myself, batteries are costly though at £190 a pop.

coolwings

syl77 wrote:

... looking at buying the new 600 myself......

If you hold an Align on hand and a logo in the other hand.
And look at them both - not catalogue pictures - the actual helis.
You would want a Logo.

Close up everything on the Align is almost nice enough.
Close up everything on the Logo is perfectly finished.

Cmar-Ireland

I couldn't find much on the net for the Logo. No spares on ebay.
Lots of spares for the t-rex on ebay.

If I was to get a trex, would it be suitable for a beginner. As was mentioned earlier, the throttlr/pitch curve could be set the same across the range. So essentially it would be a fixed pitch heli, until I was competent with that.
Does that make sense, or am I talking rubbish????;)

coolwings

1 Hmmm ... spares on ebay ..... that could mean China or Dublin City Centre Say it quickly enough not much difference, but HUGE difference when you want a bit TODAY to fly when you get home.

2 I wasn't suggesting either the Logo or Trex 600 for learning on. I already said they are too complicated for beginners, I was answering Syl77 suggesting he make a comparison.

3 Not using the collective on a collective heli is a bit like disabling the steering wheel in a car ..... you sure could do it, but why? :eek:

4 Maybe you should ask what is the cheapest price for someone on ebay to fly over to Ireland, tell you why your nice new heli repeatedly crashes after 3 seconds flying, give you free rotor blades to replace the ones already trashed by you, and then set it up correctly for you.
Now add that price to the cheapest ebay heli price you are already researching.
My simple point being: Have you got someone to SHOW YOU HOW to get a a CP heli to work correctly yet?

I see there's over thirty posts on this. This is my last.

syl77

I am sure the logo is a nice pice of kit, The new flybar version is nice and I did see it fly a demo at last years 3D masters...Impressive
Im just more in favour of the 600, its a more popular heli in the 3d world with top pilots flying them for fun and a few entered in this years masters.

Not using the collective on a collective heli is a bit like disabling the steering wheel in a car ..... you sure could do it, but why?

Not a far comparison, diabling a cars steering wheel, how do you steer?
Setting a fixed pitch accross the collective range on a CP heli (think you need +5 to take off), wouldnt it act like a non collective heli....??? i have never done it so I stand corrected but wouldnt the therory be right.

Cmar, if your going CP, its hard to do it alone, setting the collective the same accross the range means it may fly like a FP but your still learning how to setup a CP. If your going CP and have no help, then I recommend a good LHS.

Cmar-Ireland

As I've already said, I live close to the Curragh and the Newbridge and District Flyers are there every weekend. They are a friendly bunch, so I'm sure training is available. Most of the guys there fly fixed wing, but there is a few helis.
Regarding spares, It's easier for me to get them off the net than try to get up to Dublin.
There may be a lot of posts here, but I still don't know what to get. From what I gather, a 400 size is good for outdoor, but too complicated for a beginner. The smaller electrics are too twichy and no good outside.

So please, what should I get??

Cmar-Ireland

And just to reiterate, I am not interested in aerobatic heli flying. I much prefer scale type manoeuvres.

I would like to think that if I can get the hang of it, I could eventually get a nice large heli with a scale body on it.

(long way down the road) !!!

coolwings

syl77 wrote:

I am sure the logo is a nice pice of kit, The new flybar version is nice and I did see it fly a demo at last years 3D masters...Impressive
Im just more in favour of the 600, its a more popular heli in the 3d world with top pilots flying them for fun and a few entered in this years masters.

No big opinion on this. But if you put them side by side, you can see a difference across the board in the quality of the parts, the rigidity of the chassis, the care that went into making them.
You would never get it from a catalogue, or a description, or a specification sheet.
On the Logo for example the chassis is carbon, so is the TRex 600, but even the standard of the individual carbon sheets that make up the sides and the milling out of them is superior on the Logo vs the Align. The carbon has a better flatter smoother surface, and is more precisely cut. It fits better together, and the chassis is appreciably stiffer. So it goes right down to the individual components having a higher standard.
Of course the T Rex 600 will fly very well indeed. I'm not suggesting otherwise. Anyone who buys one will be happy with it. However there is nicer out there in similar size.
On paper they are both super helis. After you make a close up inspection and comparison, the Align fades a bit and the Logo doesn't.

syl77 wrote:

Setting a fixed pitch accross the collective range on a CP heli (think you need +5 to take off), wouldnt it act like a non collective heli....??? i have never done it so I stand corrected but wouldnt the therory be right..

I am not interested even in thinking it out it myself, who would do it? You might as well take a 40 size plane, and fit a 25 engine to fly it! :-) Why not just get a 25 plane if you want to do that?

syl77

Will have a closer look at the logo the next time I come accross one....

Cmar, if 200 quid is your budget, go for a fixed ptich that comes with its own tx. A CP version with a tx will cost more, and a good CP version will not come with radio gear so it would have to be bought seperate which will push up the price again.
A fixed pitch will teach you how to fly... after that you will know if your hooked or not......

The Doktor

syl77 wrote:

Will have a closer look at the logo the next time I come accross one....

Cmar, if 200 quid is your budget, go for a fixed ptich that comes with its own tx. A CP version with a tx will cost more, and a good CP version will not come with radio gear so it would have to be bought seperate which will push up the price again.
A fixed pitch will teach you how to fly... after that you will know if your hooked or not......

Ok... Are we all agreed on this?? can we go to the pub now???:D

syl77

Ok... Are we all agreed on this?? can we go to the pub now???

God idea!!! but what would we drink...........:p

syl77

How bout this for a drink!

coolwings

Very appropriate!

Cmar-Ireland

I am going to try find a Twister V2 for starters. Hopefully I can get to grips with it, then progress up to something a bit bigger.

The Doktor

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

I am going to try find a Twister V2 for starters. Hopefully I can get to grips with it, then progress up to something a bit bigger.

Good man... you should be able to get one for less than 100 sterling

Cmar-Ireland

The Doktor wrote:

Good man... you should be able to get one for less than 100 sterling

That would be for a package kit. Tx etc.. included?

The Doktor

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

That would be for a package kit. Tx etc.. included?

Yep...
http://www.jperkinsdistribution.co.uk/detail.php?JPNO=6600010&activepage=1&Navmain=Helicopters&subcatname=Kits%20-%20Twister


Im sure if you look around you might save a tenner

Cmar-Ireland

Anywhere in Ireland selling them at a good price?

coolwings

I know Green Hobby & Model in Dublin have Twisters in the Feb-Mar monthly special list at €15 off but I don't know what that is ... should be abt E 150-ish for V2s ... or if any are in stock so you would have to ring.
That sale list is good for another week (changes last week of month) before it gets changed/updated. (I have the next month list here but cannot divulge as it's provisional/subject to change still )

Cmar-Ireland

Hi all,

I am reading up as much as I can find about the Twister V2, and hope to have one soon.
I found this page while browsing around and was wondering what you accomplished heli flyers thought about it.
It is a method to learn to fly that is supposed to make it a *little* easier.
Anyway, have a read and see what you think...

http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html

It's based on an a different heli that the twister, but is adaptable for all FP's

Ciaran

The Doktor

Im gonna read that later.. but one bit of advice I will give is take your time, and when you think you got the hang of doing somthing, turn off the heli, and take a break.
In the last few days, I got my zoom out. Its been a long time with movin house.. twice.. and all sorts of stuff. But I had a great time, and when I was at the point of "ah it all comes back very fast".. I crashed
Not a bad one, just bent the spindle shaft which costs about 2quid. Also discovered again why support is so useful. The spindle was out of stock everywhere I tried. But it seems protech (who make the zoom) have a new forum on their website.. within a couple of hours I had an answer that I could use a different spindle shaft from a different model which i can get my hands on without a problem.
Not that it was a problem, as I have a spare one.. but I can be sure that I will need one soon!!!
Only thing is that Protech have a new Zoom 450 Pro out.. mmmmmmmm

syl77

yep, read Radds notes when I started off, pretty helpfull. Half the battle is making sure the heli is setup correct, make sure linages are correct and also heli balanced correctly.
I remember when I was starting off I got flybar weights to place on the end of the flybar (just before the paddles). They help to stablise the heli when learning, not sure if the twister has them, so if you PM me with ur address I can find them and post my old ones to you (wont be using them again).
Also remember fround effect.. the heli is always going to be a little unstable when taking off until it gets about a foot of the ground. This is due to the backwash of main blades rebounding of the ground and hitting the main blades again. All this will be explained in radd notes.
Best of luck...