Buying a electric guitar (possibly online)

Killaqueen!!!

Ok so as with whenever I need help to do with guitars I always ask for it in way too much advance (like when asking for help on getting a guitar set up - still haven't done it!). I don't have the money to buy an new guitar yet but I've just started saving so I'm researching what to buy.

I origionally wanted a solidbody electric but then I played this beautiful hollowbody (only an epiphone reissue but it was still sweet) and thought I might like one of them. But I'm going to assume I'm going for a solidbody from here on...

Thinking of getting a nice epiphone. So - SG or Les Paul?
Thinking of getting a fender - Strat or Tele? (Mexican?)

There#s a few other I'm contemplating as well but my main question is has anyone bought online successfully? Would I be able to get a good saving? I hear Thomann is good...but how come they are cheaper? Are they 'copies' or are they the real deal?

Sorry for all the questions - as you can see I'm still a beginner even though I've been playing for a few years! My horrible starter pack guitar (Yamaha ERG121) which I bought years ago put me off electrics but I've been trying a few out in Waltons and I want one!!!!!!

Any help would be appreciated - sorry for the long thread!

Also, I'm trying to sell that beginners electric (Yamaha ERG121) but it needs a set up. Will I have to get this done myself or would Instrumental buy it? (Also hear that Musician Inc buy them but only do trade ins)

Karl Hungus

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Thinking of getting a fender - Strat or Tele? (Mexican?)

JAPANESE!!!

Seriously, for a little more than the price of a Mexi, you can get yourself an instrument that rivals the quallity of the American models.

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

There#s a few other I'm contemplating as well but my main question is has anyone bought online successfully? Would I be able to get a good saving? I hear Thomann is good...but how come they are cheaper? Are they 'copies' or are they the real deal?

Yep, I buy online all the time, except when I'm in another country.

The one thing you have to remember is that Thomann and other online shops are not "Cheaper" as such, it's that shops in Ireland are seriously overpriced. They don't sell copies, or anything of the sort, they're the real deal.

Killaqueen!!!

Ok thanks!

What exactly is the difference between the Mexican/American/Japanese models? I hear that the Mexicans are good but the reason the Americans or more expensive is because they have great hardware and the wood quality is better. Are the Japanese models really as good as the American ones? I might just look into that. They don't seem to sell them on Thomann and I haven't seen them in music shops.

jimi_t

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Are the Japanese models really as good as the American ones? I might just look into that. They don't seem to sell them on Thomann and I haven't seen them in music shops.

Some people will tell you yes, some will no, but the common consensus is that they're closer to an American than a Mexican anyways, and they're certainly fine guitars.

You won't see them on sale new outside of Japan as they weren't meant for export - different markets.

Killaqueen!!!

Ah I see. Well I've been looking at a few sites and a Japanese Strat would be nice and second hand is all the better (sometimes) so I have no problem with that but I'm very wary of buying online but I suppose that is the only option. Most sites that sell Japanese Strats only ship to UK - can anyone recommend one that ships to Ireland for a reasonable price?

Creamy Goodness

ishibashi still sell fender jap's to regular customers outside japan don't they?

Voodu Child

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Ok thanks!

What exactly is the difference between the Mexican/American/Japanese models? I hear that the Mexicans are good but the reason the Americans or more expensive is because they have great hardware and the wood quality is better. Are the Japanese models really as good as the American ones? I might just look into that. They don't seem to sell them on Thomann and I haven't seen them in music shops.

Mexican strats are fairly mediocre, they arent complete crap, but are comparable in quality to guitars costing a couple of hundred less.

American strats are grand, theyre well made and good guitars. I reckon they are a little pricey for what they are but...

Japanese strats are very well put together, no issues at all really. Mostly vintage styled models, so make sure youre happy with that (ie the trems are crap). Much better value for money than American

If you HAVE to have a render, i'd go Japanese. But if it doesnt need to say 'fender' on the headstock, there are much better Jap brands for the same or less money.

As for places that ship Jap strats to here - Ishibashi is your man.
www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box

EDIT - tick the E.guitar box and type 'fender japan' in the first window. They have a high turnover of Jap Fenders, so check back often.

Johnny Storm

I would agree that a non-Fender Strat is probably better value since you're not paying a premium just for the name. Japanese quality is second to none.
Just to clarify (IMHO) Fender's vintage-style trems aren't any more or less "crapper" than non-vintage trems. Personally I'd be more concerned about the vintage (small) frets. I suggest to try a guitar with vintage frets before you buy one.

Killaqueen!!!

Johnny Storm wrote:

I would agree that a non-Fender Strat is probably better value since you're not paying a premium just for the name. Japanese quality is second to none.
Just to clarify (IMHO) Fender's vintage-style trems aren't any more or less "crapper" than non-vintage trems. Personally I'd be more concerned about the vintage (small) frets. I suggest to try a guitar with vintage frets before you buy one.

Could you give an example of a non-Fender Strat? I was playing a Mexican Strat today and it was great so I'm wondering if all the bother is worth it (to buy a Japanese model) I'm very wary of buying off the internet but I suppose it will give me a better price...

Voodu Child

Johnny Storm wrote:

I would agree that a non-Fender Strat is probably better value since you're not paying a premium just for the name. Japanese quality is second to none.
Just to clarify (IMHO) Fender's vintage-style trems aren't any more or less "crapper" than non-vintage trems.

A 6 point strat trem is as good as a modern 2 point? :rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

voodoo_child wrote:

A 6 point strat trem is as good as a modern 2 point? :rolleyes:

I think we're just spoiled with Ibanez trems.

Killaqueen!!!

Just been looking at http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box and there seems to be some nice strats there but there are no details whatsoever so I won't have a clue what I'm buying! Also, what currency is it in? Japanese Yen I presume? If so there are some good prices there but as I said there is little detail of woods/hardware/condition.

Anyway it's early days yet.

Also looking at hollowbodys. This looks nice:

http://www.thomann.de/ie/epiphone_es_175.htm

Voodu Child

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Just been looking at http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box and there seems to be some nice strats there but there are no details whatsoever so I won't have a clue what I'm buying! Also, what currency is it in? Japanese Yen I presume? If so there are some good prices there but as I said there is little detail of woods/hardware/condition.

Come back here when you see something you like, and you'll get help with all the details about cost, shipping, customs, payment and all that craic. Theres a rake of us have bought off them by now.

Johnny Storm

voodoo_child wrote:

A 6 point strat trem is as good as a modern 2 point? :rolleyes:

Better, obviously

Johnny Storm

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Could you give an example of a non-Fender Strat? I was playing a Mexican Strat today and it was great so I'm wondering if all the bother is worth it (to buy a Japanese model) I'm very wary of buying off the internet but I suppose it will give me a better price...

Well, G+L (Leo Fender once owned this company), Tokai, Cort, Bacchus , Edwards, etc. Pretty much every guitar company makes a Strat-a-like. The Japanese ones would probably be the best value if you used the U-Box since its in Japan. Use an internet translator like BabelFish to translate the details.

DonalN

Hi Killaqueen - I'm in a similar boat as you - I'm about to purchase my first electric and the lads here give great advice...I'll probably go down the buy online road to save a few quid..

On a different note - I found an old electric in the attic at home - forgot I bought it years ago - it's called an 'Avon Rose-Morris' - I've no idea of the quality of guitar it is, but apparantly, John Lennon (among others) had a few guitars by Rose-Morris. Found some nice pics on Google.

Hey! - Maybe I have a classic, and it's worth a fortune!!!.....prob not though...!

TelePaul

I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here. Spend as much money as you can on a guitar, you really do get what you pay for. There aren't many bargains to be had when everything's said and done. In my book certainly, an American Fender is better than a Jap Fender which is better than a Mexi Fender which is better than a Squier strat. A

ll of them have their uses and would suit your needs, but do keep in mind that an American Strat is an instrument use dby the pros. Robery Cray uses a Mexi strat too, so don't write them off.

I think if you buy Mexi, Japanese or American, you wnt be disappointed. With Fender you aren't just paying for a name, I don't agree with that. Fender invented solid body electric guitars...they did hit a bit of a low point with the CBS buy out but that changed with William Schultz.

Voodu Child

TelePaul wrote:

Robery Cray uses a Mexi strat too, so don't write them off.

I think if you buy Mexi, Japanese or American, you wnt be disappointed. With Fender you aren't just paying for a name, I don't agree with that. Fender invented solid body electric guitars...they did hit a bit of a low point with the CBS buy out but that changed with William Schultz.

Robert Cray doesnt use a mex strat

What do you think, he lets Fender make money off his name and they give him a $500 mexican guitar as a thankyou?:rolleyes:

TelePaul

voodoo_child wrote:

Robert Cray doesnt use a mex strat

What do you think, he lets Fender make money off his name and they give him a $500 mexican guitar as a thankyou?:rolleyes:

Isn't his sig a Mexi? I presumed he played one if it was.

Grolschevik

DonalN wrote:

On a different note - I found an old electric in the attic at home - forgot I bought it years ago - it's called an 'Avon Rose-Morris' - I've no idea of the quality of guitar it is, but apparantly, John Lennon (among others) had a few guitars by Rose-Morris. Found some nice pics on Google.

Hey! - Maybe I have a classic, and it's worth a fortune!!!.....prob not though...!

As far as I remember, Avon was the in-house brand of a London distributor (maybe JHS?) for Japanese copies in the '70s. I used an Avon SG copy before: not a bad guitar... but not worth a fortune.

Voodu Child

TelePaul wrote:

Isn't his sig a Mexi? I presumed he played one if it was.

Not a chance, his sig is mexican alright, but that doesnt mean squat, its a marketing move by fender to instill a bit of cred in the mexican line.

Cray (and almost all other endorsees) play models made by the custom shop.

TelePaul

voodoo_child wrote:

Not a chance, his sig is mexican alright, but that doesnt mean squat, its a marketing move by fender to instill a bit of cred in the mexican line.

Cray (and almost all other endorsees) play models made by the custom shop.

So you're saying he endorses this

http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0139100324

But plays...this?

http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0109100824

Voodu Child

TelePaul wrote:

So you're saying...

It doesnt really matter, we're going off topic, but what im saying is that (most) endorsers don't play off the shelf models.

If they play a 'new' guitar (i.e. not some trusty old thing they've had for donkeys years), its made by the Fender custom shop, its not in the catalogue. Its a perk of endorsing any brand.

Killaqueen!!!

Was taking a look on eBay and they have some good deals but...I don't like buying off actual companies online what chance do I have of having the courage to buy off eBay?!

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Fender-62-Reissue-Strat-Special-Edition-Japan_W0QQitemZ300087037028QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33039QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ie/FENDER-JAPAN-STRAT-ST-75-SUNBURST-BRAND-SPANKIN-NEW_W0QQitemZ180082281510QQihZ008QQcategoryZ38082QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

What do you think of these?

I thought most/all Japanese strats had basswood bodies....

It wasn't me!

I can't think of a single Japanese strat model, made by Fender at least, with a basswood body. Where'd you hear that?

Squirrel

I have a cheap guitar, made by Behringer. Some people were apprehensive before I was given it for Christmas. I got it and it felt nice, a friend used it for a gig and thought it was fantastic (his Fender's head stock broke two days before) for the fact it cost in or around €150 and claimed it played like a guitar worth at least 3 times the price. I may have been lucky and just got a very very good one, and I lowered the action on it to make it a bit more playable. Looks good too I think

Johnny Storm

It wasn't me! wrote:

I can't think of a single Japanese strat model, made by Fender at least, with a basswood body. Where'd you hear that?

Some do. E.G. the ST57-66US
AFAIK There is nothing at all wrong with basswood for making guitars. According to Ken Parker it has a "terrifying low-end response". Its used in a lot of guitars incl I think some Ibanezes.

Voodu Child

The specs for most of the current Jap strats are here.

It wasn't me!

Johnny Storm wrote:

Some do. E.G. the ST57-66US
AFAIK There is nothing at all wrong with basswood for making guitars. According to Ken Parker it has a "terrifying low-end response". Its used in a lot of guitars incl I think some Ibanezes.

Oh, I stand corrected. Yeah, it's not a bad wood, to be honest, in mid-range guitars. I used to have an Ibanez made from it and it was pretty nice. I think there's a stigma about it because it's not a pretty wood, it's quite ugly in fact, but it doesn't sound bad.

BostonB

It wasn't me! wrote:

Oh, I stand corrected. Yeah, it's not a bad wood, to be honest, in mid-range guitars. I used to have an Ibanez made from it and it was pretty nice. I think there's a stigma about it because it's not a pretty wood, it's quite ugly in fact, but it doesn't sound bad.

AFAIK Joe Satriani and EVH use basswood in their signatures.

It wasn't me!

Shrug, you seem to be right, but it is primarily used in the lower end Ibanezes, the higher ones tend to be mahogany as far as I know.

Voodu Child

Most Ibanez guitars are basswood, and not just lower end ones. Its a cheap wood, but that doesnt mean squat when it comes to sound.

Basswood sounds and weighs different to alder, mahogany, ash, poplar, whatever. Some like the sound, some don't, and most cant even tell the difference (including plenty who say they can..:rolleyes: ).

Most of my Ibanez guitars are mahogany with a maple cap. My favourite (this one) is basswood with a maple cap.

Meh, wood is wood, so long as its not some plywood POS i wouldnt get worked up about it.

Fingers Mcginty

Meh, wood is wood, so long as its not some plywood POS i wouldnt get worked up about it.[/QUOTE]

Had to look up the old urban dictionary there voodoo

Killaqueen!!!

voodoo_child wrote:

The specs for most of the current Jap strats are here.

Oh cool thanks! Are all these guitars new or are some used? What the hell is the U-Box...?

Look at this...

http://ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/fender-j/kanda/st68-ho.htm

Zebrawood? Sweet! Dunno what it is but sounds cool! hehe..Using xe.com currency converter it is 823euro

Voodu Child

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Oh cool thanks! Are all these guitars new or are some used? What the hell is the U-Box...?

Look at this...

http://ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/fender-j/kanda/st68-ho.htm

Zebrawood? Sweet! Dunno what it is but sounds cool! hehe..Using xe.com currency converter it is 823euro

The u-box is the used section of ishibashi, the ones ive linked to are the new ones, but you can use it to check the specs and new price of used guitars you spot aswell, to see if the value is good.

Japan charges 5% sales tax on guitars, but when ishi export them, you dont pay the tax, so if there are two prices quote, its always the lowest. If there is only one, you can usually assume that you'll be getting it a few quid cheaper when they knock off the tax.

Add between 16,000 and 18,000 yen for delivery from Japan, thats what its usually cost me, it varies depending on weight.

Assume you'll be paying about 25% more on the TOTAL (including shipping), when it gets here.(you may of course get away with no import tax, but always budget for it before you buy.)

The one youre looking at there (zebrawood) is actually a very expensive fender japan, you'll be paying around or over E1100 by the time you get it.

Killaqueen!!!

I knew there'd be loads of added fees! Well thanks for clearing it up...so I'm adding 25% to the lowest marked price. Are you saying this is usually between 16000 and 18000 JPY or are you saying I add 25% PLUS usually between 16000 and 18000 JPY? I'm pretty sure that it's the first one but just to be sure! I don't mind paying the extra shipping bits - it can't be avoided but as long as I know what the total amount is gonna cost me before I buy it. I don't want any nasty surprises!

So this one here (looks nice) http://ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/fender-j/st6885tx.htm would be around 600euro in total (plus the 25% tax). Still not bad for a guitar that many will claim is just as good as an American Strat.

Fingers Mcginty

73600 +18000 (shipping) = 91600 + 25% = 114500 Yen = 745 Euro. I dunno that seems kinda expensive to me for a jap strat. Methinks you'll have problems getting your money back on that if you don't like it.

Johnny Storm

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

I knew there'd be loads of added fees! Well thanks for clearing it up...so I'm adding 25% to the lowest marked price. Are you saying this is usually between 16000 and 18000 JPY or are you saying I add 25% PLUS usually between 16000 and 18000 JPY? I'm pretty sure that it's the first one but just to be sure! I don't mind paying the extra shipping bits - it can't be avoided but as long as I know what the total amount is gonna cost me before I buy it. I don't want any nasty surprises!

So this one here (looks nice) http://ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/fender-j/st6885tx.htm would be around 600euro in total (plus the 25% tax). Still not bad for a guitar that many will claim is just as good as an American Strat.

That's a beautiful, beautiful guitar. I had one and sold it just the other week. It had the total Jimi vibe. The quality of the fit and finish was totally comparable to a US Strat.
BUT
That guit has vintage frets. I mentioned them already in this thread as something to watch out for. Are you sure you will be comfortable with vintage frets?

BostonB

It wasn't me! wrote:

Shrug, you seem to be right, but it is primarily used in the lower end Ibanezes, the higher ones tend to be mahogany as far as I know.

Where are you getting your info from?

Karl Hungus

BostonB wrote:

Where are you getting your info from?

Reality maybe? Aforementioned Satch sig and a few others aside, a lot of high-end Ibanezes are mahogany, such as the RGT and RGA models, aswell as many other signiature models (Andy Timmons, Munky, Vai's JEM7V is Alder) and almost the entire J Custom line.

So reguardless of whether Basswood is any good or not, apart from a couple of signiature models, the wood is reserved more for Ibanez mid to lower end models. High end models are mostly mahogany, with a few exceptions such as Alder and Ash.

Killaqueen!!!

Fingers Mcginty wrote:

73600 +18000 (shipping) = 91600 + 25% = 114500 Yen = 745 Euro. I dunno that seems kinda expensive to me for a jap strat. Methinks you'll have problems getting your money back on that if you don't like it.

Oh...you add 18000 as well as 25%...that sucks.

Still, 745euro isn't bad for a nice strat.

Johnny Storm wrote:

That's a beautiful, beautiful guitar. I had one and sold it just the other week. It had the total Jimi vibe. The quality of the fit and finish was totally comparable to a US Strat.
BUT
That guit has vintage frets. I mentioned them already in this thread as something to watch out for. Are you sure you will be comfortable with vintage frets?

Yeah I've been told that they're very Hendrix style! Em...what are vintage style frets like? (ahem..embarassing!) I'm sure I wouldn't be able to tell the difference!

Why did you sell it though? Was there something wrong with it?

Johnny Storm

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Why did you sell it though? Was there something wrong with it?

Take a wild guess....

vintage frets

Killaqueen!!!

Johnny Storm wrote:

Take a wild guess....

vintage frets

Haha! Ok seriously someones gotta tell me whats wrong with vintage frets! You're spoiling the excitement for me! (Seriously I'm so excitied about getting a new guitar!) I'll have to go down to Waltons and ask if I can try out a guitar with vintage frets see what all the fuss is about

Karl Hungus

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Haha! Ok seriously someones gotta tell me whats wrong with vintage frets! You're spoiling the excitement for me! (Seriously I'm so excitied about getting a new guitar!) I'll have to go down to Waltons and ask if I can try out a guitar with vintage frets see what all the fuss is about

Vintage frets are really small ones. Or at least, that's what I'm assuming, because modern guitars generally have taller frets, and taller = better for a lot of people.

Voodu Child

Yeah, theyre just shorter frets really. With jumbo (modern) frets, you can really dig into the string and give it loads of welly during bends and vibrato, without your fingertips/nails rubbing off the fingerboard and slowing you down.

Medium jumbo would be 'normal' these days, with vintage and super-jumbo as opposite ends of the spectrum.

Johnny Storm

Karl Hungus wrote:

Vintage frets are really small ones. Or at least, that's what I'm assuming, because modern guitars generally have taller frets, and taller = better for a lot of people.

Yes, they don't bother some people but I find the tips of my fingers really press against the fretboard which doesnt happen with modern medium jumbo frets. This is despite the fact that I'm of such a vintage myself that when I started learning to play, vintage frets were just "frets".

It's a good idea to go to a shop and try lots of guitars. Even if you dont find one you like you may find out some things you dont want.

Karl Hungus

voodoo_child wrote:

Medium jumbo would be 'normal' these days, with vintage and super-jumbo as opposite ends of the spectrum.

Would've thought the super-jumbo being fairly common, and scalloped fretboards (Where you can really dig in for bends and such) being the end of that spectrum?

Voodu Child

Karl Hungus wrote:

Would've thought the super-jumbo being fairly common, and scalloped fretboards (Where you can really dig in for bends and such) being the end of that spectrum?

Yep scalloped fretboards are the logical extension of big frets, but they also make it hard to play chords in tune.

Super-jumbo arent that common. Jumbo covers most rock-oriented guitars, you'd just use super-jumbo to describe 'as big as they come' frets, and they arent all that common.

Yngwie's scalloped strat has some of the biggest frets ive ever seen...:rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

They have a very tempting one in the UBox atm...

Killaqueen!!!

Look at the Gibsons in the U-Box.....just me or are they amazing deals?

Fingers Mcginty

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Look at the Gibsons in the U-Box.....just me or are they amazing deals?

yeah i missed out on a lovely 335 lately. I think with duty included it was working out at just over a grand.