Banning of Trocaire advert

Macha

Does anyone else think that the banning of this advert is ridiculous??

I can't get my head around it...

What on earth is wrong with it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IKhBnazwAV4

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

aidan_walsh

Section 10 (3) of the Radio and Television Act 1988 wrote:

"No advertisement shall be broadcast which is directed towards any religious or political end or which has any relation to an industrial dispute."

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Feral Mutant

This is the first I'm hearing of the ban.

http://www.trocaire.ie/news/story.php?id=977

Gaspode

Pedantic maybe, but not ridiculous. It breaks BCI regulations, therefore banned.

Macha

I consider it as a shocking interpretation of the law.

I mean how much political crap are we going to get thrown at us through the media in the next few months? And this isn't allowed??

aidan_walsh

I mean how much political crap are we going to get thrown at us through the media in the next few months?

Not a lot in the form of adverts on television or radio,I should imagine.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

aidan_walsh

The Scientist wrote:

What about political party broadcasts on tv? How are they allowed?

You mean one the off broadcasts, as opposed to adverts that are repeated numerous times an hour, let alone a day?

Probably because they aren't covered in the bill.

edanto

So, what part of the ad exactly was political?

Macha

aidan_walsh wrote:

You mean one the off broadcasts, as opposed to adverts that are repeated numerous times an hour, let alone a day?

Probably because they aren't covered in the bill.

I don't know if you've been listening to the radio recently but the amount of airtime that our politicians are getting to push their own agendas is quite substantial and repetitive..

Sangre

Any ads that seek to change the poltical status quo will fall under it e.g. change of legislation. These rules have applied in Ireland for nearly 20 years.

Having studied the Act quite a bit in postgrad I don't think the political aspect of it will hold up with current ECHR jurisprudence.

WindSock

Yeah, Im with you Edanto, I don't understand what part ad is political. Is inequality politics? I dont know...

Sangre

equality legislation is politics

WindSock

What about all the previous trocaire campaigns and other ads on telly about economic inequality? I heard an ad on the radio today about racism.

edanto

But they're not advertising a particular political party, which could have been the spirit of section 10(3) was about.

On the radio the other day, the Trocaire guy said that one objective of the campaign was to convince the government to implement an agreement that they have already signed up to !!

So, is it fair that an ad asking the government to do what it has already committted to gets censored!?!? That's lunacy.

Pherekydes

The Scientist wrote:

Its offensive to men.

Explain!

I fail to see how publicizing the fact that women are being discriminated against is offensive to men.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

aidan_walsh

edanto wrote:

But they're not advertising a particular political party

But they are running a political campaign, with a petition that will go to government, one with a stated aim of being a lobbyist action. Lobbyist actions are political actions.

The advert doesn't explicitly mention the petition, but it is part of the same campaign.

pokerwidow

If you follow the link to the Trocaire site you can sign a petition against banning the ad. I just signed it.

aidan_walsh

pokerwidow wrote:

If you follow the link to the Trocaire site you can sign a petition against banning the ad. I just signed it.

Where? Are you sure it wasn't the equality petition you signed?

edanto

Something's a bit rotten in Ireland if a charity can't run a campaign asking for the Government to draw up viable national action plans that will prevent violence against women and protect them in conflict.

Because it is seen as 'lobbying' yet at the same time people that are rich enough are able to do any 'lobbying' they want at expensive dinners.( Old news story..Fianna Fail has also taken in up to €90,000 in ticket sales for another fundraising dinner in Cork tonight, where the Taoiseach Bertie Ahern will be the guest of honour.)

The law is an ass. Who makes the law again? Oh that's right, the TD's. The people that the ad was giving out about. The ad what was banned by the law made by the people that the ad was giving out about... meh

Talliesin

Why are adverts for McDonalds allowed? Or Microsoft, or Nestlé, or just about anything really, allowed.

As the song goes, "Yes it's ****ing political / Everything's political".

antSionnach

vSounds like silly pedantry. Trocaire always seems to come in for a bashing for some reason. Earlier this week Fat Angry Bastard had an unholy rant about about them in the Indo, and now this. Bad week, guys.

On a slightly more serious note, did any of those babies look girly to you? They didn't look girly to me.

pokerwidow

aidan_walsh wrote:

Where? Are you sure it wasn't the equality petition you signed?

You're right. I should really read things a bit better before I sign them

hardCopy

Calling for legislative change is a political act.

If we don't prevent lobby groups from purchasing air time on the television we can end up with a situation like they have in the USA with puppet lobby groups such as Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking various political agendas at election time.

The fact that many people agree with Trocaire's agenda doesn't mean that the law should not be enforced.

Sangre

edanto wrote:

Something's a bit rotten in Ireland if a charity can't run a campaign asking for the Government to draw up viable national action plans that will prevent violence against women and protect them in conflict.

Would it be different if the charity was promoting a graphic anti-abortion campaign?

The premise of the Legislation is to stop the wealthy buying their votes with TV/Radio ads, which are notoriously powerful and expensive. That and no one wants to listen those kind of ads all day.

Ghost Train

In my eyes the tv ad isn't directly political, maybe religious, being a lenten thing. is the radio ad any different to the tv ad? Seems a bit harsh to ban the ad, but if the commission think it doesn't comply, i suppose it mustn't. Might actually get trocaire some good indirect advertising if they can get people to complain and create a fuss about the ad being cut.

edanto

If we don't prevent lobby groups from purchasing air time on the television we can end up with a situation like they have in the USA with puppet lobby groups such as Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking various political agendas at election time.

That's not necessarily true - it's not an all or nothing situation. I'm glad that we don't have those type of pressure groups, but I think there are many steps between our situation and the American one. And some similarities.

hardCopy

edanto wrote:

That's not necessarily true - it's not an all or nothing situation. I'm glad that we don't have those type of pressure groups, but I think there are many steps between our situation and the American one. And some similarities.

I agree that political campaigns aren't as dirty here but by allowing the ad to air we could be setting a precedent which could later be abused.

edanto

Sangre wrote:

Would it be different if the charity was promoting a graphic anti-abortion campaign?

Yes, I think it would. But only because you used the word 'graphic'. There would probably be other applicable standards... I'm not really sure what point you're making with that question.

The premise of the Legislation is to stop the wealthy buying their votes with TV/Radio ads, which are notoriously powerful and expensive. That and no one wants to listen those kind of ads all day.

So, this is just an unintended side effect and it's actually in our best interest not to allow propagandistic ads? Return to your homes. Sports broadcasts will continue as normal...

InFront

Tut tut tut, BCI. You're off my Wintermas list now...
Hopefully sense prevails.

aidan_walsh

it's not an all or nothing situation.

Where would you draw the line?

Sangre

Well since BCI didn't make the legislation I don't see how its their fault.

edanto

Where would you draw the line?

Not my job. Or to be candid, I haven't got the experience to make the call.

shatners basoon

i'm a bit confused.
Is the ad purely about the equality situation in Ireland or what is the aim of the ad?

Isn't this an Amnesty International area anyway?

As for the banning of the ad- very silly... but laws can be silly. Can't see how anyone can have a problem with it.

Sangre

Its the same reason Amnesty Intl never have TV ads (afaik). Of course they've tried to get them on but were always refused. Even if the goals are noble they're still political.

InFront

shatners basoon wrote:

As for the banning of the ad- very silly... but laws can be silly. Can't see how anyone can have a problem with it.

I don't think anyone has a problem with it really. It's just some niggling little voice like one that might come up to your ear and say 'well according to rule 532, section 53, article 37 of the rule book, you cannot walk on the grass in those shoes.'

shatners basoon

Yeah i suppose if anyone did have a problem with it they'd be considered heartless sexist bastards wouldn't they?!

This thing happens all the time i'm just surprised that a charity didn't manage to get away with it!

hardCopy

shatners basoon wrote:

i'm a bit confused.
Is the ad purely about the equality situation in Ireland or what is the aim of the ad?

Isn't this an Amnesty International area anyway?

As for the banning of the ad- very silly... but laws can be silly. Can't see how anyone can have a problem with it.

Legalities aside, I found it a very confusing campaign. Are they looking for an end to some particular discriminant practices in Ireland? Do they want the Irish government to act against abuses of women in foreign wars?

shatners basoon

hardCopy wrote:

Legalities aside, I found it a very confusing campaign. Are they looking for an end to some particular discriminant practices in Ireland? Do they want the Irish government to act against abuses of women in foreign wars?

They're the same thoughts i had. I was surprised as its totally butting in on Amnesty's territory but heck charities seem to love competition!

I initially thought it was part of the lenten campaign thingy they usually do, you know- 2 euro will buy a girl some books and 10 euro will help a woman with union fees to secure equal pay or something or other (though not so tongue in cheek obviously.

Sangre

shatners basoon wrote:

Yeah i suppose if anyone did have a problem with it they'd be considered heartless sexist bastards wouldn't they?!

This thing happens all the time i'm just surprised that a charity didn't manage to get away with it!

Considering the reality of the situation in Ireland I'm suprised that they even tried to get it run in the first place. It was never happening.

shatners basoon

As in the discrimination or the legal system which likes to generalise when convenient and shove lots of things under the same bracket?

Sangre

These types of ads have been banned for 20 years, there have been plenty of cases on the matter questioning the legislation but all have failled. Trocaire know this.

Politics is politics, you can't isolate the issues without adding your own agenda via the division.

DadaKopf

shatners basoon wrote:

They're the same thoughts i had. I was surprised as its totally butting in on Amnesty's territory but heck charities seem to love competition!

I initially thought it was part of the lenten campaign thingy they usually do, you know- 2 euro will buy a girl some books and 10 euro will help a woman with union fees to secure equal pay or something or other (though not so tongue in cheek obviously.

I think the ad is suggesting gender inequality is a universal issue. It affects Ireland, but that it affects the developing world most. No country has 100% gender parity, but in rich countries, that doesn't mean you're automatically excluded from education, health, any kind of say in how a household is run, or made more vulnerable to vicious assault and risk of HIV/AIDS just because you're a woman. As an overseas aid agency, it's the latter part that Trócaire deals with. So no confusion there, I suppose.

I think the ad works because it raises this question - it's constructively confusing. So, no probs there. Though, I'd have to admid, I kinda went "whoa" when I saw the campaign. I was sort of impressed they'd (sort of) gotten away with it.

Personally, I feel that the ad didn't need to be censured. The BCI said the issue was the ad directing viewers to the Trócaire website, which is political. Rubbish. Name me something that isn't political.

Anyway, it's International Women's Day today, so let's all show some extra-special love towards the special ladies in our lives.

All you ladies have an empowering day, y'hear?

DadaKopf

DadaKopf wrote:

I think the ad is suggesting gender inequality is a universal issue. It affects Ireland, but that it affects the developing world most. No country has 100% gender parity, but in rich countries, that doesn't mean you're automatically excluded from education, health, any kind of say in how a household is run, or made more vulnerable to vicious assault and risk of HIV/AIDS just because you're a woman. As an overseas aid agency, it's the latter part that Trócaire deals with. So no confusion there, I suppose.

I think the ad works because it raises this question - it's constructively confusing. So, no probs there. Though, I'd have to admid, I kinda went "whoa" when I saw the campaign. I was sort of impressed they'd (sort of) gotten away with it.

Personally, I feel that the ad didn't need to be censured. The BCI said the issue was the ad directing viewers to the Trócaire website, which is political. Rubbish. Name me something that isn't political.

Anyway, it's International Women's Day today, so let's all show some extra-special love towards the special ladies in our lives.

All you ladies have an empowering day, y'hear?

Oh yeah... and I'm not against the BCI codes or anything. They're there for a reason. Wayyyy to easy to abuse otherwise. But on a broader note, the charity sector has had its political edge blunted in recent years by conditions placed on funding. It's rubbish - NGOs are being transformed into services rather than valid and vital civil society organisations.

Then again, Trócaire is half-funded by the Catholic Church, part funded by the government and by charity donations. Lucky sucks.

shatners basoon

Sangre wrote:

These types of ads have been banned for 20 years, there have been plenty of cases on the matter questioning the legislation but all have failled. Trocaire know this.

Politics is politics, you can't isolate the issues without adding your own agenda via the division.

I agree. I'm still curious whether the outroar that this thing is causing mightn't topple it considering the juge support that Trocaire has in Ireland.
That being said its a rather pointless and expensive task and i wish they'd just stick with charity.

DadaKopf

shatners basoon wrote:

I agree. I'm still curious whether the outroar that this thing is causing mightn't topple it considering the juge support that Trocaire has in Ireland.
That being said its a rather pointless and expensive task and i wish they'd just stick with charity.

Well, the BCI is expected to be succeeded by a Broadcasting Authority of Ireland covering all media outlets. So the definitions may very well be redrawn, but not necessarily for the better. Though this incident may become a cause celebre.

* Nice nick by the way .

hardCopy

I get that they're trying to raise awareness of and fight gender inequalities what i don't get is what specific actions they plan to take or want the government to take.

I.e. how do they plan to use funds raised to actually fight the problem.

DadaKopf

hardCopy wrote:

I get that they're trying to raise awareness of and fight gender inequalities what i don't get is what specific actions they plan to take or want the government to take.

I.e. how do they plan to use funds raised to actually fight the problem.

Becuase they're not allowed to say that, presumably. Although some of the information is on their website.

Gender is a 'cross-cutting' issue in development these days. It's to be mainstreamed in all activities - in all situations, women are to be empowered.

If this is the BCI's ruling, there's no point allowing aid/charity to advertise at all.

Binomate

They should not only ban the ad, but they should execute the people who made and funded it.