Has Ireland Gone To The Dogs?

Schlemm

Dunno if this is the right forum....but what dya reckon? How do you see Ireland in the next 10, 15 years? How do you think things will change?
Just curious on everyone's opinion is all...a lot of people seem to think that things are changing and the country is about to go downhill, eg, with the bad traffic and pollution, public transport, the M50, escalating violence and 'gun culture', general attitudes, e.g. snobbery, poor government policies (both past and present), urban sprawl, inflation, etc.

So have we never had it better or are things about to change? Is Ireland the sort of place you'd like to live in the future or present?

FlutterinBantam

Full of chavs and jackasses with no education or manners to be honest, all looking for the quick buck,and the stroke ,without putting anything back into the country.

Expecting the state to bail them out and behaving like there was no tomorrow.

Trying to get away with everyrhing they can and dragging the place down to their level.

antSionnach

Ireland will be the same as it always was - some good stuff, some bad stuff, and of course the obligatory whinging!:p

Probably the most irritating book floating around my house at the moment "Is it just me or is everything sh1t" - FFS, If you don't like it, leave! (and who bought that bloody book...)

mike65

I'm sure that somewhere in the Book Of Kells is a panel that depicts 9th century Skangerati and Squeegius and seeks our deliverance from same.

Mike.

Overheal

You see; Ireland needs the bad traffic and pollution, public transport, the M50, escalating violence and 'gun culture', general attitudes, e.g. snobbery, poor government policies (both past and present), urban sprawl, inflation, etc. because thats what keeps Ireland behind the times and thats why people adore it.
The only thing we might stand to lose is pollution and gun crimes.....possibly the government....but the bollocksed attitudes and the traffic must never change

MooseJam

I blame it all on the immigrants

iwincosimcool

I find that most people who complain about Ireland, havent lived in another country apart from travelling

brianthebard

iwincosimcool wrote:

I find that most people who complain about Ireland, havent lived in another country apart from travelling

I doubt the majority of any nation has travelled abroad to live for X amount of time, just so they could justify bitching about home.:rolleyes:

iwincosimcool

brianthebard wrote:

I doubt the majority of any nation has travelled abroad to live for X amount of time, just so they could justify bitching about home.:rolleyes:

oh yeh, was just saying though

connundrum

Where's the poll?

and no.

Ickle Magoo

What do you mean gone to the dogs? Did I miss the futuristic infrastructure, great public transport, cosmopolitan attitudes, honest polititions & fabulous wealth that wasn't based on credit cards & european subsidies? The only way is up! Can't wait to leave tbh...:p

mickoneill30

iwincosimcool wrote:

I find that most people who complain about Ireland, havent lived in another country apart from travelling

Absolutely. One term I hate is "whinge whinge whinge in this country". When 9 times out of 10 it's the same in every country. Well I don't know if it's the same in every country but I've lived in 3.

BlitzKrieg

I find that most people who complain about Ireland, havent lived in another country apart from travelling

completely agree

Ireland's not that bad.

I spent 3 years in cambridge and even in a city that is stereotypically a centre for prunes, students and posh people I saw as much scummery there as I do today living in phibsboro.

connundrum

BlitzKrieg wrote:

I spent 3 years in cambridge and even in a city that is stereotypically a centre for prunes, students and posh people I saw as much scummery there as I do today living in phibsboro.

I lived in Johannesburg for 12 years and the family moved because we felt our lives were under constant threat. Ireland ain't that bad tbh

monkeyfudge

I wish it would go to the cats... that cat thread is hilarious.

Dyr

We always want to play catch up with our neighbours. So we'll happily repeat the mistakes they made ten years ago even though it's obvious now that they ballsed up. :rolleyes:

brianthebard

Bambi wrote:

We always want to play catch up with our neighbours. So we'll happily repeat the mistakes they made ten years ago even though it's obvious now that they ballsed up. :rolleyes:

Indeed. Anyone want another housing estate with your overpriced cappacino?

jester77

iwincosimcool wrote:

I find that most people who complain about Ireland, havent lived in another country apart from travelling

So that must qualify me to complain

In fairness there is so much wrong but it's not as bad as a lot of countries. In saying that I can't see myself returning anytime soon. Same job and salary here as I had in Ireland but living is so much easier and cheaper. Fantastic health and infrastructure where I am and I must also mention the beer To quote another thread, at the end of the day it's all about being happy and if you're not happy leave!

Pherekydes

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Full of chavs and jackasses with no education or manners to be honest, all looking for the quick buck,and the stroke ,without putting anything back into the country.

Expecting the state to bail them out and behaving like there was no tomorrow.

Trying to get away with everyrhing they can and dragging the place down to their level.

And that's the Government!!

partholon

well personally im glad im not starting out now. if i had to drive 3 hours from the arse end of nowhere just to get to work i'd go mental.

i dont buy into the whole gun culture and violence thing, it was always as bad as that in the 80's. the only difference is the press dont have the wet dream of the IRA blowing the crap out of things to put on page 1 now so they have to do something to fill up the colums. anyone who thinks towns bad now should remember what the harp bar used to be like. bearly a week went by with out some scumbag knifeing another outside that place

but i have to confess the social scenes collapsed. the price of a pints ridiculous and most pubs bar a saturday night are like fecking morgues compared to the early 90's,and that was technically a recession !

my dad earned half of what im on but he's had four kids and a home. ive no bloody chance of that cause the house is taking up most of my cash. in fact what im seeing now is mates emmigrating to australia to have families because they dont want to pauperise themselves :eek:

its death by a thousand cuts in my opinoin, not one thing in particular but quality of life is definelty secondry to "the economy" and it shows in our daily lives . like i said im lucky, i got my act together just before it all went mental. i have a reasonably secure job which pays enough to keep me going and a roof over my head. but TBH i feel a great swell of pity for my neices and nephew, theyre ****ed.

InFront

Slow coach wrote:

And that's the Government!!

lol. but sadly qft as well.

biko

I blame the arse end (east)
/gets crisps and flak jacket

ballsofire23

I had two marriages in my life, Irish and Dutch man I married. I much preffered Ireland and I stayed here but I preferred my Irish husband, my Dutch husband was very easy going and Irish very uptight.
So the steretype that Irish are easy going is not accurate, it's a problem here if you're any way different.
If you go to the Netherlands, you'll notice how approachable people are, but Ireland it depends what the person you approach thinks of you'd dress sense, you're general attire before they keep walking. It's the only problem with Irish people, they are not very friendly but I think as they learn, they'll change. It's a shame to see such sweet ladies ignore you when you are in a car crash and you'r son bleeding when they walk past without saying ok I'll help you.

mickoneill30

partholon wrote:

my dad earned half of what im on but he's had four kids and a home. ive no bloody chance of that cause the house is taking up most of my cash. in fact what im seeing now is mates emmigrating to australia to have families because they dont want to pauperise themselves :eek:

They'll learn. Australia was one country I lived in for 5 years. They have many of the issues there that we have (including expensive housing unless you don't want to live near a major city with lots of jobs.)

Archeron

I love good old soggy Ireland, and I think a lot of the problems we have are a result of the affluence we've experienced over recent years. I reckon no matter how perfect things may be, if someone wants to winge, then they will always find something to winge about.

While I can kind of nearly semi-understand people from Ireland bitching about things (as someone said, a lot dont know what they are comparing it to anyway), what I really dont get is people from other countries constantly attacking Ireland and Irish ways. If you hate it that much, then why are you here? Surely if you find things here that annoying you could just open your email inbox and find some sort of North African princess who would be more than happy to take you in (in exchange for your bank account details of course).

A good friend of mine is from Nigeria and he absolutely loves it here. He lived in France and the UK and came here because he likes the Irish people and our ways. If he just gave out all the time about bad attitudes and backwards infrastructure and so on and so on, my honest advice to him, as a friend, would be to go back to the UK, or France, or Nigeria, or whatever.

With the exception of very few people, there isn't a bungee cord holding you here.

Dr.Bunson

My biggest complaint is that the government tends to look after non-nations entering the country before the Irish people. Look around Dublin city, it's only Irish people that are homeless and living on the streets. There's talk in the press about bringing in foreign language teachers in Irish schools to facilitate the foreign nationals, yet I have to fight to get my child into school, and I've been paying taxes all my life.

The Brits have got it right, they brought in a law recently that says you can't claim social welfare unless you can speak the English language... smart move.

mickoneill30

Dr.Bunson wrote:

There's talk in the press about bringing in foreign language teachers in Irish schools to facilitate the foreign nationals, yet I have to fight to get my child into school, and I've been paying taxes all my life.

While I agree with you (that Irish people in Ireland should get priority) I don't agree with your example. What would your fix be for those kids? Seperate schools? Struggle with trying to understand their English speaking teachers thus holding back other kids and themselves? Go back to where they came from?

Ìts called evolution it happens

Dr.Bunson

I'm not asking to segregate people, the government have already started that. They are segregating the Irish out of society...

If I moved to, lets say Latvia, Nigeria, Pakistan, I would be expected to abide by their customs and laws, they would not accept my customs to be their own. In Ireland, we are changing our customs to be the customs of the foreign nationals entering the country. I don't think that's right.

We have two national languages, Irish and English, yet most advertising from certain financial institutions is in Polish. I know is economics, and they want business, but it's destroying our national identity...

zuutroy

ballsofire23 wrote:

I If you go to the Netherlands, you'll notice how approachable people are, but Ireland it depends what the person you approach thinks of you'd dress sense, you're general attire before they keep walking

Thats crap....outside Amsterdam they're the most insular unapproachable bunch in any country I've been to. In this part of the world (belgium, holland etc) there's no real spark between the people. In my experience anyway, very few people will wave or flash for doing them a good turn on the roads, very few people will thank you for holding the door for you etc, very little general banter in everyday situations.
For all Ireland's problems at least there's a *bit* of warmth between the people, whereas around here, its just people sharing a country.

galah

iwincosimcool wrote:

I find that most people who complain about Ireland, havent lived in another country apart from travelling

Nope, I see it the other way round - a lot of people who complain actually have lived somewhere else, and can compare between countries...

I for one love it here, but I do see a lot of problems that Ireland needs to solve - the shocking state of health care (and the price you pay for it), traffic (well, not traffic as such, just road planning), house prices, alcohol abuse etcetc.

But it's not enough to make me move elsewhere (well, the weather would, but I knew that when I moved here...)

Ireland has changed a lot, from the cosy, dozy land of the inbred leprechauns to a "real" first world country (bar the third-world healthcare) with immigration, high-flying rich people etc and it will continue down that way, with all the ups and downs...

It's not necessarily all bad, but I guess it takes a bit to get used to...

mickoneill30

Dr.Bunson wrote:

I'm not asking to segregate people, the government have already started that. They are segregating the Irish out of society...

If I moved to, lets say Latvia, Nigeria, Pakistan, I would be expected to abide by their customs and laws, they would not accept my customs to be their own. In Ireland, we are changing our customs to be the customs of the foreign nationals entering the country. I don't think that's right.

We have two national languages, Irish and English, yet most advertising from certain financial institutions is in Polish. I know is economics, and they want business, but it's destroying our national identity...

If 10% of Latvia, Nigeria or Pakistan suddenly consisted of Irish people then you could be sure that you'd start to see Irish customs creep into those cultures. You could either tell them to learn the local language or you could try to help them learn the language and integrate with your society. Which would work better?
It's a lot smaller than that in most countries but you'll find an Irish bar and some kind of Irish community in many countries.

Plissken1

Schlemm wrote:

Dunno if this is the right forum....but what dya reckon? How do you see Ireland in the next 10, 15 years? How do you think things will change?
Just curious on everyone's opinion is all...a lot of people seem to think that things are changing and the country is about to go downhill, eg, with the bad traffic and pollution, public transport, the M50, escalating violence and 'gun culture', general attitudes, e.g. snobbery, poor government policies (both past and present), urban sprawl, inflation, etc.

So have we never had it better or are things about to change? Is Ireland the sort of place you'd like to live in the future or present?

I lived in the UK for ten years, we are like a Satellite town of the UK, what ever happens there is copied here eventually. I was there in the 80's early 90's, Ireland at the moment is identical to the UK back then, I find it hard to see any differences, maybe the Irish language and Gaelic Games, But its virtually the same. The obsession with Status and Property is so similar its scary. But I feel that the UK copied it from the US, they called the 70's in North America the "ME ME" decade. So maybe both the UK and ourselves are just copying the US. Either way, we have so much in common with Britain, you would think we would be the best of friends. The one problem we have in our area at the moment is illegal dumping of household rubbish, and scummy Chav's vandalising private property. I see we are bringing in ASBO's, where has that happened before ?

The one thing that happened back then, in the UK, was, The economy which was built on the short term gains from Property and Financial Services (always short term both of these) eventually buckled and came crashing down. The only upside to this was some friends of mine who didnt own property and didnt have large loans out at the time, they became millionaires by buying up assets that other people had to hand back to the banks.

NutJob

antSionnach wrote:

Ireland will be the same as it always was - some good stuff, some bad stuff, and of course the obligatory whinging!:p

Were good at whineing.

Hate to tell ye this but we made the country this way.

Muggy Dev

I agree with the sentiment that if you think living in this country is that bad then you should seriously consider leaving.Afterall,nobody likes a whinger.But I disagree stongly with the suggestion that we should not voice our concerns about the serious quality of life issues that face us all on a daily basis without first having gained some foreign life experience with which to compare.Just because life may be crap in France or the U.K.,does that mean we should accept our lot here? Does it make life any easier to bear? Probably not.

In the course of obtaining quotations from three companies for furniture removal for my own forthcoming move I discovered that the Irish are indeed moving abroad in large numbers.Overseas removals are now 25% of these company's businesses and the figure is growing.One agent's entire diary for the previous day was for potential clients seeking overseas transfers. Australia is the hot favourite but France,Spain and Italy are popular destinations.

Thanks to Michel Thomas these european languges are easy and fun to learn(especially if you've done a bit of Latin in your day), thereby opening up opportunities to move to countries which previously might have been considered unsuitable because of the "barrier". Thanks to the E.U. and a raft of Bi-lateral agreements the rights and entitlements of Irish citizens are wholely transferable within europe.

So if you're unhappy about the present and unsure about the future,my advice would be to go for it!

super_furry

Have people forgotten the 80s so quickly - now that was when Ireland was in a bad way. The country is much safer, has a far higher standard of living and has a much brighter future.

zuutroy

super_furry wrote:

The country is much safer, has a far higher standard of living and has a much brighter future.

And yet if you ask most 50+ year olds they'll tell you that it was a better place then.

0ubliette

mickoneill30 wrote:

While I agree with you (that Irish people in Ireland should get priority) I don't agree with your example. What would your fix be for those kids? Seperate schools? Struggle with trying to understand their English speaking teachers thus holding back other kids and themselves? Go back to where they came from?

I just think anyone sending thier child to school in a foreign country should make sure thier child has enough of that countrys language beforehand. I wouldnt send a child of mine to school in france if they didnt have any of the language and expect the school to bend over backwards accomodating my kids, hiring english teachers etc. If you want to live in another country, you should at least be prepared to speak thier native tonuge, otherwise, whats the point? Why not just stay in your own contry where at least other people can understand you?
And to be blunt, im getting a little sick of sitting on the bus on the way home from work and hearing nothing but other languages being spoken, its starting to make me feel like an outsider in my own country, a feeling im sure alot of ther people are slowly becoming familiar with.

zuutroy

0ubliette wrote:

Why not just stay in your own contry where at least other people can understand you?

Because a large amount of them haven't got two cents to rub together in their own country. If you were smashed and you heard about some country where you could earn your equivalent of 50 grand a year with qualifications, would you give a **** about the feelings of the locals towards your language difficulties. I think you'd rather feed your family and save up to build/buy a house.

0ubliette wrote:

And to be blunt, im getting a little sick of sitting on the bus on the way home from work and hearing nothing but other languages being spoken, its starting to make me feel like an outsider in my own country, a feeling im sure alot of ther people are slowly becoming familiar with.

They have just as much claim to it as you or I, and they're contribution to the economy is very much required....Look at Toronto a huge mash of cultures that works very well. The so called 'locals' there dont go around brandishing hockey sticks at all the immirgrants.

ferdi

partholon wrote:

quality of life is definelty secondry to "the economy" and it shows in our daily lives .

QFT. very well said.

people go on about how rich we are but as a 21year old male i have virtually no chance of owning my own home, no chance of living near where i work, no chance of a proper healthcare/transport system, i have a high chance of dying in a car accident or by suicide. forgive me for not jumping for joy.

super_furry

zuutroy wrote:

And yet if you ask most 50+ year olds they'll tell you that it was a better place then.

Nostalgia has a lot to answer for. Even watching the Commitments the other night highlighted exactly how much of a ****hole the place was back then. The 'on location' filming, down by Smithfield and the like look like something from the medieval ages, and it's not just artistic licence, that's how it was.

zuutroy

ferdi wrote:

i have a high chance of dying in a car accident

Thats just Joe Duffy hype....Ireland is mid-table in Europe in terms of road deaths per billion kilometres.

ferdi

yeah maybe, the rest of my post stands

Jocksy

I just think anyone sending thier child to school in a foreign country should make sure thier child has enough of that countrys language beforehand. I wouldnt send a child of mine to school in france if they didnt have any of the language and expect the school to bend over backwards accomodating my kids, hiring english teachers etc. If you want to live in another country, you should at least be prepared to speak thier native tonuge, otherwise, whats the point? Why not just stay in your own contry where at least other people can understand you?
And to be blunt, im getting a little sick of sitting on the bus on the way home from work and hearing nothing but other languages being spoken, its starting to make me feel like an outsider in my own country, a feeling im sure alot of ther people are slowly becoming familiar with.

I'm with you on that one. It pisses me off the lenghts all these state bodies go to put out all their literature in a variety of languages. Just use English and force them to learn it or suffer the consequences. I don't want to have non-English speakers living in our communities. Oh you're such a racist etc..
No. Its because I actually want to feel like I can communicate with these people and have them part of our community rather than having these seperate communites existing.
Back in the 80's when a foreign family came to our town and stayed within a few years they jsut became Irish people and part of the community. Not any more.

0ubliette

zuutroy wrote:

Because a large amount of them haven't got two cents to rub together in their own country. If you were smashed and you heard about some country where you could earn your equivalent of 50 grand a year with qualifications, would you give a **** about the feelings of the locals towards your language difficulties. I think you'd rather feed your family and save up to build/buy a house.





They have just as much claim to it as you or I, and they're contribution to the economy is very much required....Look at Toronto a huge mash of cultures that works very well. The so called 'locals' there dont go around brandishing hockey sticks at all the immirgrants.

Do you even live in Ireland? If not, how can you honestly say thier contribution to the economy is needed here unless youve seen it with your own eyes? i could care less if they dont have 2 cents to rub together back home, thats thier problem, not mine.
And no, they dont have as much claim to Ireland as i do. I cant just go to America and claim i have a right to live there, or any other country for that matter.

zuutroy

0ubliette wrote:

Do you even live in Ireland? If not, how can you honestly say thier contribution to the economy is needed here unless youve seen it with your own eyes? i could care less if they dont have 2 cents to rub together back home, thats thier problem, not mine.
And no, they dont have as much claim to Ireland as i do. I cant just go to America and claim i have a right to live there, or any other country for that matter.

Lived there until 4 months ago, still visit every month. Ask any economist and they'll tell you the same. As for the rest of your post...thats your opinion...fair enough.

NutJob

0ubliette wrote:

Do you even live in Ireland? If not, how can you honestly say thier contribution to the economy is needed here unless youve seen it with your own eyes? i could care less if they dont have 2 cents to rub together back home, thats thier problem, not mine.
And no, they dont have as much claim to Ireland as i do. I cant just go to America and claim i have a right to live there, or any other country for that matter.

Last thing we can complain about is immigration.

Half the country left during the 80s because we hadn't "2 cents to rub together" and they went to England the states where they worked there ass off.

They do have a right to work here because if you voted you voted us into the EU.

The reason there taking the jobs is because we've got fat and lazy as a nation. Migrants work harder and whine less thus deserve the jobs they get. I know companies in construction sector and others that hire because of this and the fact they dont whine turn up on time and get the job done. Similarly the'll hire Irish people who do the same.

dont have 2 cents to rub together back home, thats thier problem, not mine.

It already is. If we don't upskill our workers migrant workers from mainland Europe will be quite happy to take all the low skilled work and youll be competing with them.

Muggy Dev

super_furry wrote:

Nostalgia has a lot to answer for.

Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.For sure,thosands of Irish people (mostly rural)emigrated to the U.S. and the U.K. during the late 70's and early 80's but for the vast majority of us who remained,life was good.People typically got their first foot on the property ladder in their early 20's,hospitals and the health service in general was efficient and well run,and perhaps most importantly,no married mother was compelled to go out and get work to suppliment the household budget.Yes,thats right.Single income families with a full-time parent were the norn.The first time the word "creche" entered common usage in this country was when Superquinn began providing these facilities to full-time mums and dads who shopped in their stores,a quarter of a century ago.As for commuting......my daily trip from a suburb in the southside to a suburb in the northside took 35 minutes each way.....years before the M50.

Regarding the comment about "Dublin in the Commitments" all I can say is there were slums then and there are slums now.

Nostalgia.....No, but it was a vastly better country then.

Kintarō Hattori

Dr.Bunson wrote:

We have two national languages, Irish and English, yet most advertising from certain financial institutions is in Polish. I know is economics, and they want business, but it's destroying our national identity...

I think you'll find that most of it is not in Polish but a portion is. I can't see how it's destroying our national identity, it has become part of our national identity. We are an evolving first world nation and part of our success has been due to the influx of immigrants contributing to our economy. The success that we have experianced just would not have happened without them. Would you rather we simply ignored their effort and ignored their needs?

0ubliette wrote:

Why not just stay in your own contry where at least other people can understand you?

Have you been to any of these other nations? As another poster mention, economically some of these countries are in a very poor way and the people need to go abroad to find work as there is very little for them at home.
Part of our prosperity has been due to these people and with it we shoudl have changing attitudes, a modern prosperous society should be tolerant and understanding.

0ubliette wrote:

And to be blunt, im getting a little sick of sitting on the bus on the way home from work and hearing nothing but other languages being spoken, its starting to make me feel like an outsider in my own country, a feeling im sure alot of ther people are slowly becoming familiar with.

I for one am very pleased and proud when I walk the street's of Dublin and see so many 'foreigner's and different cultures. Ireland was culturally a stagnant place during the 80's and early 90's, there was no-one here. We have such an influx of people and new traditions now I can only really see it as a positive thing.
Being a part of the EU these people have every right to be here, the vast majority of them contribute greatly to the economy and to society and I try to look at things positively. Why do you feel uncomfortable surrounded by foreign languages?
All these people still make up a small MINORITY so you shouldn't feel too threatend.

Jocksy wrote:

It pisses me off the lenghts all these state bodies go to put out all their literature in a variety of languages. Just use English and force them to learn it or suffer the consequences. I don't want to have non-English speakers living in our communities.

That's a pretty shocking attitude and I don't know if anyone here could convince you that having these people here is a positive rather than a negative thing.
I have no issue whatsoever with anyone printing literature out for these people in their respective languages. I know many foreign people and some of them had very little english when they first arrived here but they made the effort for themselves to learn english and integrate into the community. Are you saying they shouldn't be helped along while doing this?

I'll agree not all of them learn english, but the majority do.

Jocksy

Are you saying they shouldn't be helped along while doing this?

No the opposite. By making it easier for them get by on their own native language they will take longer to learn English. THrow them in the deep end and let them swim.

zuutroy

Speaking from experience, there are a ****load of things to organise when first moving to a country, and having the instructions/application forms in English is a major relief, saves a lot of time and hassle. Those people have enough to worry about on first arriving without having to battle through the language barrier toom, so fair play if someone helps them that way,