Self defence

neonman

Hi all, new to boards.ie hope everybody is well, I'd like to get some information.

I would like to take up a self defence course, in the area of Artane/Clontarf/Killester. The reason is simple to many scumbags around these days, I was away with a group of friends and we got attacked for no reason what so ever. 3 people on 1 totally out numbered. Didnt come out of it to bad but it could of been a lot worse.

For that reason I'd like to take up a course. I would like to know what type of Martial arts is best for this sort of attack etc. Any help would be great. Thanks again.

/neonman

Colm_OReilly

Hi neonman,

Welcome to the SD/MA board.

First off, I'm sorry you got attacked. However, the best form of self defence is still not to be in situations/environments where this is more likely to occur.

Can you move area? Can you avoid dodgy pubs? Is there a safer means of transport to/from your area? Are you friends with the type of people who habitually end up in fights? Are you someone who has a tendency to mouth off or do you feel you need to protect your rep or not let people away with badmouthing you that lands you in confrontation?

I don't know you, but this level of introspection will help immensely more than any self defence course. If you have a strong reaction to any question, it's usually an indicator that it's close to the mark.

Now with regards a physical course: Any 12 week course will not help you develop the skill required to survive an attack or adequately defend yourself. You'd need constant training to develop and maintain the skill required to handle yourself. So for that I'd recommend finding a class.

Combat sports would be my recommendation: Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, Mixed Martial Arts, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Thai Boxing. Essentially you need to be sparring with as free a ruleset as possible to gain anything near a decent self defence ability.

Physical fitness is important as well, so sprinting, weight lifting, etc, will also help, because fighting is a very taxing activity.

I don't know the geography of the northside so I can't tell if any clubs are near you but www.sbgnorthside.com, if you can make it, would be ideal imo.

Best of luck,
Colm

neonman

I'm not a trouble maker, I dont look for trouble, none of my friends look for trouble. This attack happened while down in Athlone, we were in a pub with friends when we left we got attacked by 18-19 year olds, I'm 29 and I dont like fighting for the fun of it. I for one tried to talk the gang down but that didnt help they just wanted a fight, i'd say they're at it every weekend.

I go to the gym twice a week and play basketball twice a week so I'm fit. I've always had an interest in MA but never got the chance to do some classes. But after the weekend I think I might just jump in and see what its like. Plus its another great way to keep fit at the end of the day and give you some peace of mind if you do get attacked again.

Khannie

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Combat sports would be my recommendation: Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, Mixed Martial Arts, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Thai Boxing. Essentially you need to be sparring with as free a ruleset as possible to gain anything near a decent self defence ability.

This is sound advice.

I'd say you are near enough to SBG northside. Should only be a short trip for you. Roper (a regular on here) also has a good gym in glasnevin (can't remember the name of it, sorry man ) which would also be a short trip.

I'm pretty sure there's a boxing club in killester too. Check in the boxing forum if you're interested in that.

Roper

Colm's Northside geography lesson is actually fairly accurate! SBG Northside in Baldoyle is a Dart away. The lads tell me that they get off at Howth Junction and walk through some walkway into the Industrial Estate that the gym is in. I wouldn't know though I'm too posh for public transport.

Millionaire

go to www.kravmaga.ie Aidan Caroll...very good street based self defence

Magic Eight Ball

http://cqcireland.com
http://kravmagaireland.com

More links for ya.

Baggio...

Millionaire wrote:

go to www.kravmaga.ie Aidan Caroll...very good street based self defence

You should get in touch with Jon Mackey, he's going to be running Urban Combatives in Cabra (the same system I train in "Close Quarters Combat"). Let me know if you want his email addy. I've trained with Jon a few times and he's a sound lad and very capable. Or you can drop him a line here (he's one of the moderators):
http://www.maireland.proboards50.com/

You could also go to Aiden Caroll as Mill said, by all accounts a very good guy to train with. He also uses a lot of the close quarter combat principles.

Good luck,

B.

Nothingcompares

Or you may want to train with Martial Arts Inc as Trevor describes them as the ultimate in self-defense. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Magic Eight Ball

Nothingcompares wrote:

Or you may want to train with Martial Arts Inc as Trevor describes them as the ultimate in self-defense. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now, now play nice.
Respect really is a Dying Virtue, isn't it!!

Tim_Murphy

http://martialartsinc.com
The Ultimate in Kickboxing, Self-Defence and Mixed Martial Arts.

Has anyone from your club competed in MMA?

Magic Eight Ball

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Has anyone from your club competed in MMA?

YES! and not getting into another debate about it because it's getting old!
Ring and speak to the gym if you have any questions or problems.. and remember..

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

MaeveD

Neonman....

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu class in Joey's Primary School in Fairview on Saturdays 1.00-2.45pm. Have a look at the Defend U website below for more info.

Liam_B

Its important to pick the right Club for you and you'll know when it feels right to you. The Trainnig effectiveness , the approach of the instructor, the atmoshphere in the club and the attitude of the other guys there. So , my advise would be to go and see the clubs mentioned above and ask as much questions as possible. And make sure your having a good time in the process!
Best of Luck!

Baggio...

Liam_B wrote:

my advise would be to go and see the clubs mentioned above and ask as much questions as possible. And make sure your having a good time in the process

That's probably the best advise...But make sure that if it's self-defense your after, that the club specialize in that area.

legendaire

HI sorry you got attacked. I do mixed martial arts in Galway with pbs ( http://www.pointblankgym.com ) and it is perfect for self defence, it basically teaches you groundfighting and boxing and takedowns etc. and is perfect for self defence, no high kicks or anything like that just moves that will work in a street situation. Hope that helps. I read above there is a sbg club close to your area and if you can I would reccomend them from my expierience from attending a seminar by one of their fighters they are very friendly and are more than willing to help you and they are excellent at mma

ElSeano93

i'm a serious martial artist. if someone tries to attack me i will beat the livin crap out of them then shove their heads so far up their arses they'd be crappin out dandruff for weeks because i do a full-conctact striking martial art, shotkan karate. if u want an MA that will disable the person take up either karate, jiu-jitsu or aikido. karate is strinking and kicking for the most part, jiu-jitsu is grappling and strikin, and aikido is locks and thwros. choose which ones rite for what you're doing, and who you are. also base it on moral grounds, if u dont want to beat the crap out of your enemy take up aikido, but i dont have any morals so i get off there!:)

Nothingcompares

Stall the ball there Sean. Where do you do karate by the way? Ever heard of MMA?

Baggio...

ElSeano93 wrote:

i'm a serious martial artist. if someone tries to attack me i will beat the livin crap out of them then shove their heads so far up their arses they'd be crappin out dandruff for weeks because i do a full-conctact striking martial art, shotkan karate.

Sean,

I'm honestly not trying to be sarcastic here... but I hope you never get attacked by three scumbags with a blade, because that type of thinking, will either get you badly injured or killed. Time to have a reality check...

Black Swan

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Now with regards a physical course: Any 12 week course will not help you develop the skill required to survive an attack or adequately defend yourself. You'd need constant training to develop and maintain the skill required to handle yourself. So for that I'd recommend finding a class.

Spot on! Saw a newspaper article about a retailer who has his employees work late and provided them with a two week SD training programme. The paper was praising the owner. I was thinking that his employees knew just enough to get themselves seriously hurt.

Tim_Murphy

YES! and not getting into another debate about it because it's getting old!
Ring and speak to the gym if you have any questions or problems.. and remember..

Erm...
I was just asking a question dude, no need for the attitude. :rolleyes:

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

?? I've never heard of the club competing in MMA so I asked a question. That's hardly rejecting anything now is it? I had a look at a few of the videos on the site, there's one link to a video called mmatraining but unfortunately that one isn't working.

Millionaire

Baggio... wrote:

You should get in touch with Jon Mackey, he's going to be running Urban Combatives in Cabra (the same system I train in "Close Quarters Combat"). Let me know if you want his email addy. I've trained with Jon a few times and he's a sound lad and very capable. Or you can drop him a line here (he's one of the moderators):
http://www.maireland.proboards50.com/

You could also go to Aiden Caroll as Mill said, by all accounts a very good guy to train with. He also uses a lot of the close quarter combat principles.

Good luck,

B.

Ah yes....we forgot about Jon....Irish rep for www.urbancombatives.com that stuff! give Jon a go!

Roper

Its off topic, but Trevor, saying something is the "ultimate" in anything is a bold, bold statement. Especially when said club has zero track record in that sport. Martialartsinc may well be the ultimate in self defence and kickboxing, but MMA? I think the "ultimate" in that in Ireland may well be those clubs that have fighters competing in the major shows. So, false advertising perhaps?

Magic Eight Ball

It's the slogan of the gym, I'm advertising the gym in my signature, link and slogan. It's no big deal, people need to get over themselfs. All gyms and businesses claim to be the best at what they do, that's life.

And regards to Tim_Murphy, I didn't have an attitude, I just don't want every topic I post in turning into a big deal about the gym I trian in.

If you want to continue this subject, PM me or just forget about and worry about your own training and gym.

I just don't wanna hijack any more topics with it..

And back on topic, shotkan karate is an amazing style with great history but it's not really a style used in street self defence these days.. I wouldn't use it (on the street) anyways.

Nothingcompares

Trevor Coulahan wrote:

It's the slogan of the gym, I'm advertising the gym in my signature, link and slogan. It's no big deal, people need to get over themselves.

I propose the slogan of the gym should be changed to the ULTIMATE IN BS

Trevor Coulahan wrote:

And back on topic, shotokan karate is an amazing style with great history but it's not really a style used in street self defence these days.. I wouldn't use it (on the street) anyways.

What style would you use? Semi contact kickboxing? These days? Was Shotokan once popular on the mean streets of Dublin a few years back? But now it's been over taken by Semi-contact kickboxing self-defence extraordinaries?

Magic Eight Ball

You've never even been in the gym! that's the 'ULTIMATE IN IGNORANCE'
It's not a popular gym here, fair enough.
your abuse of the gym, the style you think I train in and me myself is just childish!

You talk hard on the internet, I wonder if you back that mouth of yours up inside the ring.. OH WAIT! There's no need to.. I'm only a Semi-contact kickboxer and you'd beat the **** out of everyone from MAI one after the other cause we're such a **** gym..

Grow up!

john kavanagh

lol at everybody gangin up on Trevor - he's a NEW enthusiastic member of a club and wants to let everybody know about it. good luck with your training T and enjoy it

there's obviously MMA gyms in Dublin with better track records, in fact don't remember anyone from Martial arts inc competing in MMA? but i've no doubt that if rob devane devoted himself to it he would be very competent very quick. he is a fantastic athlete and trains very hard.

Roper

Perhaps I was being harsh, but then I saw Nothingcompares' post and I see now that I was being lovely.

No Trevor I believe you made a mistake when you said that "all gyms and businesses claim to be the best at what they do"... in fact, you're quite wrong, they don't. Some accept their place on the food chain as it were. My gym isn't as good as SBG or Point Blank or PCC, so I wouldn't put down that I was the ultimate. Some are honest, is what I'm trying to say, and tell people what they offer and how qualified they are to offer it. I've sent a few people to the likes of John Kav or Andy Ryan because their experience was beyond that of my gym. By the same token some people have stayed to train with us because they liked the place despite the beginner focus.

John, you need to quell these diplomatic urges of yours and get back to your airport-tkd forum ways. If you don't you run the risk of losing your Morpheus mantle.

Khannie

Jaysus lads.....Take it easy ffs. Not only is this horribly off topic, but it's getting all macho, which these boys love!

astfgl

Trevor Coulahan wrote:

Grow up!

Trevor, I think its you who should grow up.
Tim started off by simply asking "who in your gym has competed in MMA",
Roper merely pointed out that to call anything the "Ultimate" is going to require backing up,
and Nothingcompares made known his opinion of Karate and "semi contact kickboxing self defence extraordinaires".
Instead of just answering Tim,
backing up your claim to Roper,
and pointing out to Nothingcompares that he is wrong about your training style (and was rude in his post) you immediately go on the defensive about things that I don't see as attacks on your gym.
This makes me wonder what you think about your own gym.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll just answer the original question asked by Neonman with "go with SBG Northside"

Magic Eight Ball

astfgl wrote:

Trevor, I think its you who should grow up.
Tim started off by simply asking "who in your gym has competed in MMA",
Roper merely pointed out that to call anything the "Ultimate" is going to require backing up,
and Nothingcompares made known his opinion of Karate and "semi contact kickboxing self defence extraordinaires".
Instead of just answering Tim,
backing up your claim to Roper,
and pointing out to Nothingcompares that he is wrong about your training style (and was rude in his post) you immediately go on the defensive about things that I don't see as attacks on your gym.
This makes me wonder what you think about your own gym.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll just answer the original question asked by Neonman with "go with SBG Northside"

Well considering 'Nothingcompares' started this all off by taking a cheap shot at the gym I train at for no reason at all, for the second time in as many days.

Does this mean everything I start a topic or reply to one, 'Nothingcompares' is going to follow up with 'don't listen to him, he's trains in MAI?'
Because that's what it's turning in it.

Yeah, I gave a short answer to Tim because I felt (at the time) it was gonna turn into another ainti-MAI rant.

I have no problem with Roper, he asked questions of the gym and their grappling, I tired to answer them to the best of my knowledge and referred him to their website and welcomed him to call them.

I have a lot of respect for MAI and the people who teach there, and I'm gonna promote it when I can and I'm gonna defend it when people talk BS about it.

All of you would do that same for your gym!!

Please, Can we drop it and move on, arguing like this is pointless and takes away from the forum.

I'm hanging up my 'internet boxing gloves' and get back to reading some of the great and informative topics here.....

Baggio...

Trevor Coulahan wrote:

Well considering 'Nothingcompares' started this all off by taking a cheap shot at the gym I train at for no reason at all, for the second time in as many days.

Speaking of cheap shots... I seem to remember you making a few yourself on another forum for no good reason.

Life's hard, so wear a helmet...

Nothingcompares

Ah my old pal Trevor C knows what I think about MAI I didn't think he'd take it so seriously, didn't want to disrupt the karma of the auld forum.

Just to reiterate what's already been said so I can some sort of on-topic comment, if your intentions are to learn something practical that will stand to you in a scuffle on the street or self-defence situation of a more serious nature your best bet is to build up a base in an alive/functional martial art such as Judo or boxing (or mma, or wrestling, or kickboxing, or Muay Thai). To get to the standard necessary to be proficient can take a few years so be prepared for a long learning curve.

Around the Artane/Clontarf/Killester area is a judo club in Donnycarney and a boxing club in Darndale, coolock and killerster ( i think). There is a big mma club in Baldoyle that does a bit of BJJ, Judo (grappling), Muay Thai (striking) and MMA ( a bit of both).

On top of this, if your interest is not to get involved in the competitive/sporting side of the martial arts but you want to specifically practice something in the self-defence area you can do a course. I repeat, take this course after doing a good bit of functional training. Firstly, because you'll have the skill and experience to help you learn the self-defence stuff quicker but you'll have more realistic idea of what the limitations of your own capabilites and the techniques you are shown are.

Colm_OReilly

Hmmmmm....

I'll deal with this in morning. I'm tired and going to bed. You kids keep it down.

Colm
-The Mod

PS: Khannie, nice!

HammerHeadGym

Nothingcompares wrote:

...These days? Was Shotokan once popular on the mean streets of Dublin a few years back?...

Not sure about Dublin, but it was very popular in Japan after the way when a small bunch of Karate enthusiasits fought back and kept the Yakuza from bringing organized crime into their village. According to a japanese cop I met when I travelled there anyway.

HammerHeadGym

astfgl wrote:

...I don't want to hijack this thread...

It's a bit late now.

columok

I don't know why everyone is being so harsh on MAI. That Robert Devane guy did the 100 man kumite (kinda like 100 no rules fights in a row) for charity.

There are some really cool vids on that MAI site.
Great SD techniques
http://martialartsinc.com/downloads/mpg/TechniqueDemoRob&Dec.mpg
Some cool musical forms:
http://martialartsinc.com/downloads/mpg/FireFormRobert.mpg
and some great takedowns
http://martialartsinc.com/downloads/mpg/takedowns.mpg

People should stop being so ignorant.

Millionaire

Rob Devane is a fantastic martial artist, and has been around years. was he not World Champ in Semi Contact.

I seen people train down in his gym, the trainers work them on the pads like in any muay thai camp over in thailand.

I know they teach, alot of point kickboxing, which is not my own interest, but they teach alot more than just that.

I d put money down Rob would kick the butts off most posters on here in striking...me included. he's a big lad, and got speed and power. would land a kick on your jaw and you would not see it coming. I ve seen him train, hes top notch.

arybvtcw0eolkf

neonman wrote:

I would like to take up a self defence course, in the area of Artane/Clontarf/Killester.

Artane/Killester = Mugendo Kickboxing with Liam McConalogue, a fantastic club. There's also the Dagokan Judo in the leisure centre behind Doneycarney church. I train there occassionally, its 'soft' judo ie you won't get battered like you will in some clubs, and the instructors down there are absolute gentlemen

Clontarf = ShaneT from this forum has his club in EastWall.

You might check IrishFighter magazine, available in Eason's and Jon's 'Pro Nutrition' shop in Phibsboro for some of the smaller clubs in your area.

If you can travel you won't go wrong with Andy Ryan's SBG club www.sbgnorthside.com I'd seriously look into Andy's place.

Roper

Millionaire wrote:

Rob Devane is a fantastic martial artist, and has been around years. was he not World Champ in Semi Contact.
I d put money down Rob would kick the butts off most posters on here in striking...me included. he's a big lad, and got speed and power. would land a kick on your jaw and you would not see it coming. I ve seen him train, hes top notch.

I don't think anyone disputes what they do and how good they are at it. Gerry, did you look at the self defence videos above? If anyone on here came on and posted those you'd be all over them like a rash. So why not now?

Also, what is it with kickboxers and bomber jackets? Every SC tournament I ever went to the bomber jacket to person ratio was huge!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Jeeze guys lets get this one back on topic.

Millionaire

Roper wrote:

I don't think anyone disputes what they do and how good they are at it. Gerry, did you look at the self defence videos above? If anyone on here came on and posted those you'd be all over them like a rash. So why not now?

Also, what is it with kickboxers and bomber jackets? Every SC tournament I ever went to the bomber jacket to person ratio was huge!

No, did not look at vids.... I cut down looking at stuff like that, and more time into own training... might have a peak at weekend as I am in bangkok right now in hotel with weak internet link..(Oh the pleasure of life)... in fact I am redoing my Krav Maga Instructor cert under the most non BS KM people I have very came across, cause its full whack training, and very simple stuff (my faith has been restored in KM as a worthwhile self defence system, after the americans and a few others Tae Bo'ed it) www.tacticalkravmaga.com.au

I m not a mate of Robs(in case people think I am plugging him), I d say he would just about recognise my face, from a kickboxing point of view he is a top dude, and highly skilled.

Bomber Jackets...I always asked same questions about bouncers and bomber jackets??? especially the black colored ones.... what happened bouncers in Tux's LOL!

Baggio...

I've trained with Robbie a few times back in my old Kenpo days and he's a very talented lad (and a nice guy). My problem has always been with their CQC course; "learn to kick butt now", etc.

For me it's not proper Close Quarters Combat - but a mish mash of various "specific defenses". Looks like a hybrid of American Kenpo with a bit of KM thrown in. Proper CQC does not use Specific Defenses per se as they wont work under duress. There was virtually no mention of "mindset", which is the most important aspect of CQC. I've not been on the course myself, but I have seen their 5hr DVD. Lets just say, it's not my cup of tea...

That's just my opinion, not trying to offend anyone.

Millionaire

Baggio... wrote:

I've trained with Robbie a few times back in my old Kenpo days and he's a very talented lad (and a nice guy). My problem has always been with their CQC course; "learn to kick butt now", etc.

For me it's not proper Close Quarters Combat - but a mish mash of various "specific defenses". Looks like a hybrid of American Kenpo with a bit of KM thrown in. Proper CQC does not use Specific Defenses per se as they wont work under duress. There was virtually no mention of "mindset", which is the most important aspect of CQC. I've not been on the course myself, but I have seen their 5hr DVD. Lets just say, it's not my cup of tea...

That's just my opinion, not trying to offend anyone.

See a certain mish mash krav maga guy used to rent training space down there, so I d say, spurred on by the mish mash KM guys commercial stroke, the lads "modelled" (now there an NLP term) his strategy, and when they had their CQC in place, they sent him elsewhere. (thats the business side of MA I guess!)

arybvtcw0eolkf

lads, its a different bloody discussion.

This is ridicules.

OldBloke

Neonman

Just to get back on track. ShaneT in east wall is a good bet www.mmairealand.com

Or if you want you could try Kyokushin Karate - www.kyokushinireland.com - we have a dojo in Killester in St Brigids BNS on the howth road.

Let us know what you choose.

Roper

You're right of course Mairt.

OP, try everything and see which one suits your needs the most. That would be my advice to you. Just remember that self defence is a vague subject at best so the best club is probably the one you get most enjoyment out of.

Cheers.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Roper wrote:

OP, try everything and see which one suits your needs the most. That would be my advice to you. Just remember that self defence is a vague subject at best so the best club is probably the one you get most enjoyment out of.

Very true.

Khannie

Colm_OReilly wrote:

PS: Khannie, nice!

Cheers. I thought so.

Nothingcompares

In fairness to the off topicness of this thread, the original poster has got his answers but he's also learned all about what SD is and what SD isn't and what (in some people's opinion) SD effective training is and what isn't.

People don't own threads, if they organically steer off topic they should be pruned or the posters warned.

Khannie

Nothingcompares wrote:

People don't own threads, if they organically steer off topic they should be pruned or the posters warned.

In fairness, this thread has degenerated into ****. Your attempts to cloak your agressive personal attacks as a mere drifting of an organic discussion are ridiculous IMO.