Console wars, who is winning?

KdjaCL

Simple really who is winning based on perceived sales, games, functions and PR.


Imo:

360: Xbox live, Gears of War worth buying a console for, media centre shame it dont do xvid but still solid, no other game i want other than GOW and its coming out on pc. (have 4 games for 360 meh unless its GOW). I am looking forward to nothing except one game*

Wii: Sweet god its fun, functions dont care about as there is none to care about, beating my mates at everything 3 at a time never gets old, Zelda wow but i finsihed it and feel empty for some single player, hoping sonic will do it (have 8 games for wii) them Mario Metroid and Smash bros.

Ps3: Have one preordered but honestly the games on offer do nothing for me, but i intended to use it for now to play Okami(still in packet) Pes6 and other games online, thats gone now, i may sell it as there is no game there until one comes out*


Grand Theft Auto*


So overall with the headstart 1 has over the other and quality off games on offer for all whether expectaction or actual hard fact goodness, who is winning the next gen console wars. Nintendo may not like the tag but they in the battle.



kdjac

Dont be at yourself

Xbox360: 6 months ago, it appeared to be hitting its stride. Dead Rising, PES6, Gears of War, Splinter Cell and Rainbow 6 all came out within the space of a few weeks. But for me, only two of those were worth playing. And then my 360 broke, and I can barely be bothered to get it fixed. When's the next decent game coming out for it?

Wii: I havent the time to sink into Zelda, so I'm still waiting for that essential game. Perhaps it's Wario. Overall though, a pretty solid catalogue of games, with more on the way. And it hasn't broke yet.

PS3: Sony seem to be doing everything that they can to **** up the launch of the PS3, and still I want one. Without any doubt, the day that Metal Gear Solid 4 hits, I'll buy one. Although if I'm in Japan before then, I might pick one up anyway, seeing as they're retailing for about 370e!

tman

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

Wii: I havent the time to sink into Zelda, so I'm still waiting for that essential game. Perhaps it's Wario. Overall though, a pretty solid catalogue of games, with more on the way. And it hasn't broke yet.

Tell me about it... I've only managed to rack up 40 hours of play in Zelda since launch day, if it was released a few years ago I would've managed that within the first 2 days of owning it!:p

Even though it looks like the Wii is set to take the lead, I can't really see these sales holding up for much longer before people realise that there's nothing REALLY worth buying it for other than Zelda.

PS3 isn't going to do anywhere near as well as the PS2, but it'll still sell by the shedload.

Still too early to tell I reckon...

Timans

There is about 10 games that are must haves coming out in March,

Mass Effect, Bioware, Forza 2, Blue Dragon etc etc.

BOHSBOHS

actual uptodate worldwide sales figures :

http://www.vgcharts.org

o1s1n

BOHSBOHS wrote:

actual uptodate worldwide sales figures :

http://www.vgcharts.org

"Japan"
"America"
"Others"



....others?
I know Europe is always last for everything, but that's just taking the p1ss.

evad_lhorg

Timans wrote:

There is about 10 games that are must haves coming out in March,

Mass Effectnope it isnt
, Biowarethis is a company but ill assume you mean bioshock but its out in august
, Forza 2May
, Blue Dragonnot a chance


etc etc.

i pointed out the mistakes in bold:p




oh and whichever version of GTA IV that sells best will be the winning console.

super_furry

I'm loving the 360 right now. Crackdown, Oblivion, Gears of War, Call of Duty 3 and Dead Rising are all eating up my gaming time. Add in Enchanted Arms which, I know got really bad reviews, but I'm still enjoying it, and online UNO - strangely addictive - and I haven't had time for anything else.

K.O.Kiki

Err... where's the real winner? :rolleyes:
DS anyone?

Ciaran500

360 for me for now

360: Has some great games out now and currently has more games out than I have time to finish. Also has a strong line up for the rest of the year.

Wii: I really want one but not till it gets some games. Nothing on it really interests me and the future releases are looking a bit bleak for a while.

PS3: Definitely has potential but it needs devs and Sony to take advantage of it. None of the big games (DMC4, FF13, MGS4) hold any interest at all to me and most exclusives are going multiplatform. So I'll be waiting for this one to mature.

Crucifix

Atari Jaguar here.
None of em have the games to draw me to em yet really.

qwertplaywert

tbh ,i dont consider wii to be in luege with 360 and ps3, its in luege of its own.........it was always going to sell very well

and the 360 is winning hands down......great controller......great games..........great online service............=great sales

AdMMM

I think the console war will really start when the 360 begins to show it's age. The price of the PS3 at that stage will be crucial in deciding who will come out as the eventual winner. The life of the PS3 is said to be 10 years. The 360s will be nowhere near that and if the PS3 is priced competively when Microsoft bring out their next offering to the public, then Sony maybe in a position to capitalise on the opportunity to win back those who opted to buy the 360 instead.

As for the Wii, well as already stated by someone... the PS3 and 360 are in a seperate league and if people start realistically comparing them then it's a sign of a another failing Nintendo business plan.

KdjaCL

|.Murderer.| wrote:

As for the Wii, well as already stated by someone... the PS3 and 360 are in a seperate league and if people start realistically comparing them then it's a sign of a another failing Nintendo business plan.

All recently released consoles, noone is comparing them. But the fact is they are competing against each other.

kdjac

projectmayhem

right now it's hard to look at the next gen consoles and say anyone other then microsoft is winning. at the same time, looking at figures, it's hard to not look at the ps2 and wonder how the hell anyone doesn't own that thing at this stage...

RE*AC*TOR

the 360 is the only console to have delivered. its too early to say for the other two.

BlitzKrieg

the 360 had a horrible start, I will not deny that...didnt even consider buying one.

but when GRAW hit it the console got pace and ever since I see reviews/previews of games that make me want it.

The Wii had a f*cking amazing start...wii sports alone sold alot of people, followed up by zelda and a few other quality titles at the start of its life made it a good purchase.

But while its not a draught, the games that have followed have struggled to get rid the gimmick element.

thankfully though the 2 biggest studios it needs are proving that they wont treat it as gimmick

obviously nintendo.

but the real shocker is EA, who have been very clear about their support of the Wii by setting up a section of the studio dedicated to it, and the response to games like ssx blur have been wholey positive.


PS3 is in trouble because as the more powerful console it should not be playing catch up. Which honestly with the lacklustre sales both in the US and japan it is stuck in catch up.

regardless of the power under its hood the ps3 will not catch up if all the 3rd party publishers start using the 360 as the base for the multiplatform titles, the prove is in the ps2/original xbox/gamecube, multiplatform titles were developed with the ps2 in mind, only the unique attributes of xbox live kept it in the race in the USA. The PS3 has not proven if its own online support will be as strong...worse its exclusive list...while as strong as Nintendo's isnt as big.


I have no doubt those who buy a PS3 will enjoy it, I do doubt though that history will remember it as fondly as it will the ps2.

LookingFor

BlitzKrieg wrote:

regardless of the power under its hood the ps3 will not catch up if all the 3rd party publishers start using the 360 as the base for the multiplatform titles

Well, not all developers are. It seems to depend on the project. Games like Mercenaries 2 and Army of Two for example, both EA published, are leading on PS3. (In fact, Army of Two actually switched from 360 as its lead platform to PS3, reportedly).

Quite asides from third party stuff, Sony itself is obviously exclusively targetting PS3, and they're one of the biggest publishers in the world. By employee numbers, supposedly the second biggest after EA. So whether third parties make the system shine or not, Sony will. Just, as it turns out, they did best with PS2 latterly with games like God of War 2, even despite the third party focus on that system.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

...worse its exclusive list...while as strong as Nintendo's isnt as big.

I don't have time to compare third party titles, but that's certainly not true in terms of first party publishing portfolios. The opposite is true in that context.

Anyway, to refer to the original question, I think Wii has certainly emerged with the best PR and best sales so far.

On PS3, I think just this week with GDC, some perception should improve. From what I've heard Sony will be showing some very creative stuff, and the PS3 game everyone will be talking about after GDC (and wanting after GDC) won't be the MGS4s and GTA4s of this world, but something we haven't even heard of yet. I've heard it's pure genius, something you'd perhaps more likely expect from someone like Nintendo. Now, one game can't 'win a war' if that's what we're talking about here, but from what I know of this, I think it will help change the perceived character of the system and the type of games you expect from it.

super_furry

The GDC thing looks nailed on to be 'Playstation Home', ripping off both the Nintendo Mii and Xbox Achievement system. http://kotaku.com/gaming/sony/rumor-sony-to-unveil-playstation-home-240746.php

LookingFor

super_furry wrote:

The GDC thing looks nailed on to be 'Playstation Home', ripping off both the Nintendo Mii and Xbox Achievement system. http://kotaku.com/gaming/sony/rumor-sony-to-unveil-playstation-home-240746.php

Nope, there's more.

I actually don't know anything about Home, except the same rumours that everyone can see. I think it'll have a hard time upstaging what I'm thinking of, though.

(That said, the rumours out there beyond Kotaku's report suggest home is something much more than Achievements or Miis. And actually, a closer analogy would appear to be The Sims, rather than Miis, if the rumours are true, but of course people always like to stir the pot with Nintendo/MS comparisons)

Tusky

Wii : Im pretty disappointed with the wii. Zelda is great but it feels like a gamecube game with tacked on wii controls. Wario ware & Raving rabbits are both fun, but not amazingly so. Sonic looks like it could be fun too but theres hardly a wide selection of games out there. I was also expecting a little more from the graphics, its often hard to tell the dif between it and a gamecube. However, the thoughts of Metroid, Mario, Supersmash bros, Mario Kart etc keeps me positive.

Xbox360 : Ive been playing this alot. Pro evo 6, Gears of war, Dead Rising, Fight night and a few others. Looks lovely on my 38inch HD tv. Theres quite a few games coming out that I am looking forward to also.

PS3 : Theres is absolutely no chance I would go near this until it drops in price dramatically.

steviec

Wii - On top at the moment in terms of sales and popularity, but a lot of people are starting to lose interest in the novelty factor already, before its even widely available in shops. I can see a lot of impulse-buy Wiis gathering dust and it will become the domain of the hardcore loyal Nintendo fans again just like the cube, it still doesn't seem like a place for third party games.

360 - Microsoft are doing everything right, they've nailed some top notch exclusives and in terms of the operating system and user experience its leagues ahead of any other console I've ever used. However, it still hasn't fully cracked Japan, and this could lead to a lack of support from independent Japanese developers. It's just hard to imagine, lets say the Katamati of this generation being a 360 game, and I guess its a matter of taste but I'd take original Japanese games over Gears of War or Halo 3 any day. I don't think anyone could possibly buy a 360 and be disappointed though, but time will tell how much Microsoft's hard work will convert into market share once all three consoles are widely available.

Playstation 3 - still a bit of an unknown quantity, but as I said above, that relationship with Japanese developers will mean everything to Sony. Exclusives like MGS4 and FFXIII will contribute hugely to sales, and with them will come lesser known, more innovative Japanese titles, just like we've seen on PS2. The price is a huge barrier to entry at the moment but it will certainly drop, and once the console's out in the wild and people are actually playing it the current negative press should start to drop off.

sprinkles

Wii - Great start, best of the lot and although Ninty have been slow in getting the games out there are a few crackers there to be snapped up, the latest of which - Excite Truck - is brilliant fun. Something that couldn't be replicaed ont he 360 - possibly on the PS3.

360 - Good run last year for a while but should have made more of their year head start. There's somewhat of a lack of AAA titles, something which chould have been addressed given that it's out more than a year. Still though, PES6 and GOW (which is overerated imo) has kept me busy recently.

PS3 - There's not much to say really, it's been dogged with PR problems, the price certainly isn't a great selling point and the fact that us Europeans are being shafted with the worst hardware for the highest price is an absolute disgrace. Still, it has the name and that will sell. With the number of launch titles they are aiming for and if they follow that up with some exclusive AAA titles they could be back at the top soon enough.

My choice: Wii but it was very close between it and the 360.... Excite Truck swung it.

BlitzKrieg

So whether third parties make the system shine or not, Sony will. Just, as it turns out, they did best with PS2 latterly with games like God of War 2, even despite the third party focus on that system.

Ahh...no console has won the console wars on its own. Not even Nintendo, they won nintendo/super nintendo because of their own games and 3rd party support (Sega p*ssed 3rd party support off with the mega drive/saturn and dreamcast.) they lost with n64/gamecube because of the lack of it.

I don't have time to compare third party titles, but that's certainly not true in terms of first party publishing portfolios. The opposite is true in that context.

I know Sony has a larger number of of teams working for first party titles...but they are not materilizing quick enough, or worse they are downgraded to downloadable content (which is something of a mixed bag in quality and a disaster in pushing consoles sales). Nintendo on the other hand has more first party franchises which they have proven to be very good at exploiting these franchises again and again.

On PS3, I think just this week with GDC, some perception should improve. From what I've heard Sony will be showing some very creative stuff, and the PS3 game everyone will be talking about after GDC (and wanting after GDC) won't be the MGS4s and GTA4s of this world, but something we haven't even heard of yet. I've heard it's pure genius, something you'd perhaps more likely expect from someone like Nintendo. Now, one game can't 'win a war' if that's what we're talking about here, but from what I know of this, I think it will help change the perceived character of the system and the type of games you expect from it.

lets hope so...but really they should hve done this before launch...not after. They are still playing catch up.

n fact, Army of Two actually switched from 360 as its lead platform to PS3, reportedly

link?

LookingFor

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Ahh...no console has won the console wars on its own. Not even Nintendo, they won nintendo/super nintendo because of their own games and 3rd party support (Sega p*ssed 3rd party support off with the mega drive/saturn and dreamcast.) they lost with n64/gamecube because of the lack of it.

Your point was that if 360 was the base console for third party publishers, the PS3 wouldn't be shown off, its difference wouldn't show through, whatever that might be. My point is that the teams that showed PS2 off to its fullest are either still focussed on PS3, or working exclusively for it. That's it. I was not suggesting that Sony relied on first party content alone, but that it was their first parties that did the best with their systems. That was true on PS2, it may well be true on PS3.

You're shifting your point now to cast Sony as a latter day Nintendo, but on that front, there's no lack of third party support on PS3.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

I know Sony has a larger number of of teams working for first party titles...but they are not materilizing quick enough

How do you figure? Compared to Nintendo? Nintendo has released 6 Wii games since launch (that's including Wii Play and Wii Sports). Sony has released 5 retail PS3 games and 4 downloadable PS3 games since launch.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

or worse they are downgraded to downloadable content (which is something of a mixed bag in quality and a disaster in pushing consoles sales).

This makes little sense. I think we've seen one project thusfar potentially moved to DLC. And that's not a bad thing. DLC will be BIG in this generation, and I think Sony is right to get behind it in a big way. I don't know what you're talking about in terms of a "mixed bag of quality" - DLC doesn't automatically inherit that characteristic just because it's DLC. It has the potential to provide excellent games, and I think that's what Sony wants to prove instead of just throwing out golden oldies (which I'm sure they'll also do, but that's not been the focus to date).

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Nintendo on the other hand has more first party franchises which they have proven to be very good at exploiting these franchises again and again.

I actually doubt they have more to draw on given the very point you make - they largely exploit the same franchises over and over, whereas Sony actively pursues new IP with each new generation. If you look at all the IP to Sony's name from the last two generations and add in the new stuff on PS3, you'll probably come up more different franchises than Nintendo can claim. I've not run the numbers here, but just think back through PSone, PS2 and now PS3 at all the different stuff Sony put out..there's a huge amount of different IP there.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

lets hope so...but really they should hve done this before launch...not after. They are still playing catch up.

We're mere months after the system's launch. If every system, particularly Playstations, were defined solely by their launches and launch games, they wouldn't have been very good systems. But of course, a system grows beyond its launch. Also, I think it should set things up on a nice note for the european launch.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

link?

It was reported on 1up, but there's actually some dispute about that now, apparently, so you can disregard that if you like.

BlitzKrieg

Your point was that if 360 was the base console for third party publishers, the PS3 wouldn't be shown off, its difference wouldn't show through, whatever that might be.

Yes, and I feel my point still stands, that was why I didnt quote you fully just the point I was addressing which was the strength of Sony's own publishers to carry the ps3 even with lacklustre 3rd party support.

You're shifting your point now to cast Sony as a latter day Nintendo, but on that front, there's no lack of third party support on PS3.

i havnt shifted anything, that has actually been a comment made numerous times that sony's recent feck ups and apparent lack of touch with the reality of the changes in the game industry is reminisicent of latter day nintendo. And yes I do not believe the PS3 will lack 3rd party support, but to win the 'console wars' as the OP put it, one does not have to have 3rd party support...but lead in it. the titles must hit their console first or have more features on their console which is why the next few months will be interesting because if 3rd party games continue to get better support via xbox live then it will damage the ps3's credibility expecially when one takes in the larger price tag. Honestly that wont make as much of a difference here in Europe as it would in America...but America is a big market.

How do you figure? Compared to Nintendo? Nintendo has released 6 Wii games since launch (that's including Wii Play and Wii Sports). Sony has released 5 retail PS3 games and 4 downloadable PS3 games since launch

6 titles, 1 of which is part of one of the most successful game series of all time , and the fact that many similar popular nintendo franchises are confirmed for release *within* this year, compared to the tight lipped approach on the detail of many of sony's big names. On the downloadable front, while its value can be called into question there is no doubting that there is appeal in the virtual console on the Wii which has had a constant stream of quality (and not quality) classics pouring into each week, many of which are nintendo classics so the number of nintendo titles (if we are to include as you have downloadable content) on the wii has been quite high.

This makes little sense. I think we've seen one project thusfar potentially moved to DLC. And that's not a bad thing. DLC will be BIG in this generation, and I think Sony is right to get behind it in a big way. I don't know what you're talking about in terms of a "mixed bag of quality" - DLC doesn't automatically inherit that characteristic just because it's DLC. It has the potential to provide excellent games, and I think that's what Sony wants to prove instead of just throwing out golden oldies (which I'm sure they'll also do, but that's not been the focus to date).

ok...take this point by point

1. We've had 1 project turned into a demo (gran turismo) and 1 that was going to be a killer launch title, then a AAA title showcasing the potential of sixaxis, finally being cut down into a DLC multiplayer only game.

2. Yes I agree DLC will be big, in fact I wish sony would have done away with the blu ray bollix alltogether and focused their console on DLC (which so far has actually been the strongest aspect of the console in the way of actual good games.)

3. What I mean by mixed bag is that the model for it has been in flux for a long time no one has got it right on how it works, everyone has made f*ck ups. This is no way a dig at sony, its merely a comment that if sony wants to make this a big thing for the PS3 they need to get it right...NOW before microsoft does (which with the upcoming worms...they might be getting it right soon) or before nintendo start putting original titles on the virtual console. The first console to openly support episodic content on their marketplace gets a golden feather in their cap (which looks to be microsoft who are talking with telltale to bring sam and max to marketplace)

We're mere months after the system's launch. If every system, particularly Playstations, were defined solely by their launches and launch games, they wouldn't have been very good systems. But of course, a system grows beyond its launch. Also, I think it should set things up on a nice note for the european launch.

a history of playstation...hmm

nope...

cant find any sign of sony having to fight to get people on their side...after the console is released. they always did it before they released a console.

lets see

PS1: Sega Saturn released first...but at the E3 that sega released the saturn Sony announced the ps1 to be a $100 cheaper and delivered an amazing showcase of their launch games and beyond. Despite the Saturn being released first...everyone was talking about the playstation.

PS2: Again E3...again Sega is out the door first. But Sony present the 'Emotion' engine...its a load of crap mostly but it gets people on their side, the announced DVD support is another feather in the cap. Despite the Dreamcast having over 6 months head start at least, it couldnt compete with the constant reminder of quality being showed off by sony.


And while the PS3 appears to be following the same formula the difference is sony has spent the months coming up to its launch not building up excitement but playing damage control, which is why I say...they are playing catch up for the first time and nobody wants to be in that position. You dont have to release your console first to be in pole position (mega drive came before Snes) you need to convince people it will be regardless of what the other companies do.

LookingFor

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Yes, and I feel my point still stands, that was why I didnt quote you fully just the point I was addressing which was the strength of Sony's own publishers to carry the ps3 even with lacklustre 3rd party support.

But that support is not lacklustre..

BlitzKrieg wrote:

i havnt shifted anything, that has actually been a comment made numerous times that sony's recent feck ups and apparent lack of touch with the reality of the changes in the game industry is reminisicent of latter day nintendo.

You were referring to an imagined, almost pure reliance on first party support, not 'feck ups' etc., which is what I took issue with.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

And yes I do not believe the PS3 will lack 3rd party support, but to win the 'console wars' as the OP put it, one does not have to have 3rd party support...but lead in it. the titles must hit their console first or have more features on their console which is why the next few months will be interesting because if 3rd party games continue to get better support via xbox live then it will damage the ps3's credibility

Some third party games have had better online support, but not all, and I don't expect it will be a trend that establishes itself in the longer term (at least in that I expect third party games will make as full use of the PSN as they do Live). But regardless, better online didn't help Xbox win the console wars last time around.

Also, funny that we dropped the Wii comparison here. I wonder why :rolleyes: If Sony was in Nintendo's boots with regard to online at the moment, I've no doubt we'd have a 10-pager here with crucifixions all round.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

6 titles, 1 of which is part of one of the most successful game series of all time , and the fact that many similar popular nintendo franchises are confirmed for release *within* this year, compared to the tight lipped approach on the detail of many of sony's big names.

Perhaps Sony should have stuck to sequels so we'd have a better idea of what to expect then Boo! Original IP! Bad!

(Seriously though, I do agree Sony could open up on the PR side here, but all in good time I guess)

BlitzKrieg wrote:

On the downloadable front, while its value can be called into question there is no doubting that there is appeal in the virtual console on the Wii which has had a constant stream of quality (and not quality) classics pouring into each week, many of which are nintendo classics so the number of nintendo titles (if we are to include as you have downloadable content) on the wii has been quite high.

VC titles are not Wii titles though. They're NES/SNES/N64 etc. titles. PS3's DLC games (the ones I counted) have been developed for PS3.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

1. We've had 1 project turned into a demo (gran turismo)

GT5 is still coming, you know.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

and 1 that was going to be a killer launch title, then a AAA title showcasing the potential of sixaxis, finally being cut down into a DLC multiplayer only game.

Warhawk was never announced as a launch title, and there's nothing stopping it still making a good use of Sixaxis. The truth of the matter there is that the single player component was not coming along well. Better to release the part of it that is good than not at all, right? Without DLC the whole project might have been canned, but this way they can at least salvage part of it.

As for your history lesson, I take the point that it has been a rougher ride with PS3, but I don't think things were quite so clearly rosy at the time as you suggest. PS2 had its share of bad PR initially (not as much as PS3, but still a fair bit), surrounding everything from average launch games, to stock problems to 'jaggies' to BC problems (yes!) etc. And people were already talking about the threat from Microsoft and a revitalised Nintendo with it's "anti-N64" and high profile exclusive announcements (RE, Capcom, Namco etc.) At the time you'd have been laughed at if you suggested Sony would match the success of PSone, let alone exceed it.

Now, I'm not saying things aren't any different this time around. I'm just pointing out that it's easy to think in hindsight that Sony's success to date was as obvious as a blue sky, but that was not the case back in 1995 or 2000.

BlitzKrieg wrote:

And while the PS3 appears to be following the same formula the difference is sony has spent the months coming up to its launch not building up excitement but playing damage control

Yeah, but as others have said here, most of this will dissipate once the system is out. Most of the clouds over PS3 relate to things that are transient, once the system is out an established it will just come down to the software mix as usual. The one big exception is price, but even that won't be quite permanent. I think to a degree there's an issue of perception here also. All of the systems have their share of issues and challenges, not just PS3. And there's many things Sony has done right that, relative to apparent mis-steps, seem to go overlooked. But I guess that comes with the territory when you are the market leader (i.e. the 'build them up to knock them down' psychology).

Eep! This thread of conversation is getting rather unwieldy. I hope I've expressed myself decently enough.

BlitzKrieg

Yeah, but as others have said here, most of this will dissipate once the system is out.

...

this is an easy one to start with.

the criticism i have mostly talked about are not european issues (which I have mostly avoided since the machine isnt out) but are global issues brought up about the machine annnnd...it is out in the USA and Japan annnnnnnnd those clouds are just simply not going away.

Eep! This thread of conversation is getting rather unwieldy. I hope I've expressed myself decently enough.

I get worried over the same things as well it'll be worse this time, cause i'll be hoping all over your response in a bizarre order.

Warhawk was never announced as a launch title, and there's nothing stopping it still making a good use of Sixaxis. The truth of the matter there is that the single player component was not coming along well. Better to release the part of it that is good than not at all, right? Without DLC the whole project might have been canned, but this way they can at least salvage part of it.

my apoligises you are correct, but the point I was raising that warhawk was one of the key titles that was shown off first when the ps3 was revealed. It was used in their US advertising and like we agree it is a great showcase for sixaxis.

with it suddenly becoming a DLC a showcase game that was up there with metal gear solid 4 and motorstorm is now a small multiplayer game you can download, you have to admit the sudden deflation of excitement is felt. Its like getting half a game.

Similarily with the gran turismo demo there was a lot of talk of it being something bigger (I admit some of it was very BAD talk) but still there was alot of excitement around the potential...which ends in a 2 course (same course reveresed) demo.

its a worrying thrend of potential that was promised a year ago only being half delivered. I wonder if Lair is going to be announced as the next title to be downsized into DLC. We all love DLC but we want the game and then DLC on top.

Its also horrible for advertising. I said it to projectmayhem, you dont see tekken 5, warhawk or gran turismo in the shops, DLC cant sell consoles to joe public, DLC only sells itself.

As for your history lesson, I take the point that it has been a rougher ride with PS3, but I don't think things were quite so clearly rosy at the time as you suggest. PS2 had its share of bad PR initially (not as much as PS3, but still a fair bit), surrounding everything from average launch games, to stock problems to 'jaggies' to BC problems (yes!) etc. And people were already talking about the threat from Microsoft and a revitalised Nintendo with it's "anti-N64" and high profile exclusive announcements (RE, Capcom, Namco etc.)

dont want to sound nasty but you sort of missed the point. The previous sony consoles built up positive news before they were released, the majority of the problems you mentioned were voiced after its release, they existed before release, but the positives that sony kept throwing out kept those problems on the fringes. Which is were the PS3 is failing, if it cannot generate enough positive press to outwiegh the negative then we should be asking why? Will it be worth the 620 euro price tag?

And on the xbox/gamecube comment, the exclusives that nintendo scored came quite late if I remember...after launch if I am right? the gamecube was out in 2001, resident evil 0 didnt show up till 2002.

And Microsoft had (and still does to some extent) to face off against its very negative image due to microsofts history with windows and the company's wealth. People refused to buy xbox simply because it was microsoft.

thankfully they have for a large part fixed their rep in time for the 360.

VC titles are not Wii titles though. They're NES/SNES/N64 etc. titles. PS3's DLC games (the ones I counted) have been developed for PS3.

I thought we were talking simply about support for each console from its developer. I said Nintendo have despite their smaller size (according to a recent survey) were matching if not outdoing sony in the matter of support for their own console. Yes this includes rereleases on the virtual console. But Nintendo is not alone in rereleasing when it comes to DLC Tekken 5 and lemmings are both stripped down versions of their psp originals.

My original point numerous posts above was that despite Sony's sheer size there has been little software actually shown off beyond the initial launch games and a number of announcements. Compared to yes nintendo who have put playable versions of most of the biggest games out at every possible venue to show off. Sony should have been flogging countless images and video previews of games in action since the ps3 was revealed.

Perhaps Sony should have stuck to sequels so we'd have a better idea of what to expect then Boo! Original IP! Bad!

(Seriously though, I do agree Sony could open up on the PR side here, but all in good time I guess)

In all honesty original or unoriginal whats needed is good fun games, nintendo have proven despite rehashing of characters and plots that they can make good games. They've also proven to be able to deliver original titles aswell.

Sony have done just aswell, God of War is an excellent game franchise that I hope will continue to grow.

the matter of it being an original IP or not is not important if there are no games there.

and on that matter I point out again and again why I am worried.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_3_games

look at this list does it not worry you that so many games are marked TBA, I am happy to see someone has confirmed that MGS 4 will be this year. But the sheer number of games that they cant mark down as even in 2007 is something to be worried about.

Some third party games have had better online support, but not all, and I don't expect it will be a trend that establishes itself in the longer term (at least in that I expect third party games will make as full use of the PSN as they do Live). But regardless, better online didn't help Xbox win the console wars last time around.

online not helping the original xbox is actually my point. The fact that 3rd party developers used the ps2 as the basis for 3rd party games meant that most of them were not willing to go further for the xbox when it was simply not worth it. This time around the roles could very well be reversed where because a large number of titles are built up starting with the 360 developers wont be pushed to take advantage of the PS3's unique features. Not to mention the fact microsoft runs the xbox live servers means there is not as much work needed by developers to provide online support for the 360.


Also, funny that we dropped the Wii comparison here. I wonder why If Sony was in Nintendo's boots with regard to online at the moment, I've no doubt we'd have a 10-pager here with crucifixions all round[/quote]

Also, funny that we dropped the Wii comparison here. I wonder why If Sony was in Nintendo's boots with regard to online at the moment, I've no doubt we'd have a 10-pager here with crucifixions all round.

it is funny, I am disapointed that online gaming isnt available on the Wii yet, but it has performed the other tasks it promised quite well. I hope to see a good online support for the Wii but honestly I dont expect much and it remains the biggest sore on the Wii at the moment.

You were referring to an imagined, almost pure reliance on first party support, not 'feck ups' etc., which is what I took issue with.

Ahh I see...ok.

If we keep this going I suggest we take it to PM cause we are really beginning to overpower this thread.

0ubliette

Its way too early for a 'whos winning' thread, as both wii and ps3 are barely a few months old, so 360 wins by default. Tho having said that, i absolutely love my 360, and it has shot straight into my top consoles of all time list. Why anyone would buy a launch ps3 over a 360 is utterly beyond me. Most the top titles on ps3 are already available on the 360 for cheaper, and the price tag is ridiculous. You could buy a 27" HDTV for 499 off komplett and a core 360 for about the same price as a PS3 and one game :rolleyes:

Kristok

360 - At the moment the only of the 3 new consoles with any sort of catalog worth looking at.

Wii - I loved playing wii sports but once i cleared everything its become a party only game and there is nothing else on the console at the moment im interested in.

Ps3 - Its only out it has a poor launch list and everything ive played on it was poor compared to the 360.

Given time the ps3 might get better but it will not have the ps2 lead over the xbox more than likly we will end up with a snes megadrive situation with a 50/50 market split. At the same time I think allot of people will end up owning either a ps3 or 360 and a wii aswell because last generation graphics where good enough and we where all waiting on something new like the controllers to make a difference.

End of the day the real winner is nintendo for clawing back from obscurity and microsoft for changing peoples image of itself. Sony are the big loosers because they will lose their market share just like commadore did when it ruled the market and for the same reasons they made a good console and management screwed up big time dealing with it.

sprinkles

Kristok wrote:

End of the day the real winner is nintendo for clawing back from obscurity and microsoft for changing peoples image of itself. Sony are the big loosers because they will lose their market share just like commadore did when it ruled the market and for the same reasons they made a good console and management screwed up big time dealing with it.

Well said. I think MS's image change had been remarkable. When the xbox came out there was considerable resistance to it but even though they've won us over they still haven't converted the Japanese, which is where the fight will be won or lost in the long term imo

BlitzKrieg

they still haven't converted the Japanese, which is where the fight will be won or lost in the long term imo

the recent success of idolmaster and blue dragon in japan have been a step in the right direction though...so lets see if microsoft can build on it from there.

Retr0gamer

The xbox 360 has actually gained a cult following in japan were it's 'cool' to own one in the same way it's cool to own a quirky japanese only or successful in japan console in the west. Blue Dragon did very well for microsoft but Lost Odyssey is the big RPG that a lot of japanese gamers are interested in.

monument

I voted 'Atari jaguar' - it's too early.

BOHSBOHS wrote:

actual uptodate worldwide sales figures :

http://www.vgcharts.org

:rolleyes:

BrenC

I don't think theres going to be a clear cut winner for this generation. PS3 though is made for long term, you'd get around 10 years out of it. I can see the PS3 doing really well and since Its looking like blu-ray is becoming accepted, it only helps its case. Plus the games coming out for it are good. MGS4!!!

Retr0gamer

BrenC wrote:

I don't think theres going to be a clear cut winner for this generation. PS3 though is made for long term, you'd get around 10 years out of it. I can see the PS3 doing really well and since Its looking like blu-ray is becoming accepted, it only helps its case. Plus the games coming out for it are good. MGS4!!!

I think this talk of the PS3 going to last 10 years or more is absolute bull. In about 5 years when all the next gen consoles are looking old I'm sure MS and Nintendo will have a new console in the works and Sony will have to react or be left selling an out of date console. The PS3 is going to last as long as the other 2 consoles. When another console manufacturer decides it's time to move on the other will have to follow or be left behind.

sprinkles

Retr0gamer wrote:

The xbox 360 has actually gained a cult following in japan were it's 'cool' to own one in the same way it's cool to own a quirky japanese only or successful in japan console in the west. Blue Dragon did very well for microsoft but Lost Odyssey is the big RPG that a lot of japanese gamers are interested in.

Sales are pretty stagnent though. They have tried to win support and they've gone the rigt way about it but they really need to be challenging the PS3 on an equal footing in Japan, I think it's where Sony's dominance will prevail.

projectmayhem

sprinkles wrote:

I think it's where Sony's dominance will prevail.

not just yet though. i think for a while the PS3 in Japan will be like the PSP. selling well, but being completely trounced on all fronts by nintendo... until some decent RPG stuff arrives that is.

i think Sony's dominance will prevail in Europe actually. we're pre-booking the thing like we've never pre-booked before on both a hardware and software front. it's true that how ever bad we're treated, we'll still lap it up like good little boys regardless. us buying the thing in droves will then allow Sony to give a price drop in America (a fancy bundle at the same price won't do it), boosting sales, especially for christmas. couple that price drop with the killzone2 demo around e3 and you'll start to see Sony rise up again stateside, purely because they won't be doing damage control anymore... they'll be building hype for the first time in about 2 years.

Ciaran500

Retr0gamer wrote:

I think this talk of the PS3 going to last 10 years or more is absolute bull.

I think the way they meant it was that they will still be making and selling the PS3 in 10 years even with the PS4 out, like they did with the PS1 and they are likely to do with the PS2.

Retr0gamer

projectmayhem wrote:

not just yet though. i think for a while the PS3 in Japan will be like the PSP. selling well, but being completely trounced on all fronts by nintendo... until some decent RPG stuff arrives that is.

i think Sony's dominance will prevail in Europe actually. we're pre-booking the thing like we've never pre-booked before on both a hardware and software front. it's true that how ever bad we're treated, we'll still lap it up like good little boys regardless. us buying the thing in droves will then allow Sony to give a price drop in America (a fancy bundle at the same price won't do it), boosting sales, especially for christmas. couple that price drop with the killzone2 demo around e3 and you'll start to see Sony rise up again stateside, purely because they won't be doing damage control anymore... they'll be building hype for the first time in about 2 years.

Not too sure about that statement. The PS3 was preordered like like crazy in Japan and America but after the hardcore gamers had got the first batch sales plummeted and it was easy to find a PS3 in shops. I predict the same will happen here. I'm sure the sheep, I mean general public in ireland will lap up the PS3 since they have a blind following of all things playstation. I doubt this will happen in the rest of Europe.

AS for the Killzone demo, I think you are the only person actually excited about Killzone. An MGS4 demo might spark more interest but until there are full games like GTA 4 and MGS4 then there won't be much interest in the console.

I think the Wii will hold it's dominance in Japan. The console is selling for the same reason the DS is selling so well, it's appealing to a huge market while the PS3 will only appeal to gamers. Even if the big RPGs like Final Fantasy get released then those games are still only appealing to the PS3's core audience and not the wider audience like the PS3. I'd say sony will try to rectify this with software similar to nintendos casual gamer output and we will probably see a plagiarised dualwiimote controller of some sorts at E3 but the big disadvantage the PS3 has is that the price is distancing itself from the casual market. You also have to remember that Final Fantasy isn't really that big in Japan. The real system seller in Dragon Quest and that has moved to the DS and Wii.

Ciaran500 wrote:

I think the way they meant it was that they will still be making and selling the PS3 in 10 years even with the PS4 out, like they did with the PS1 and they are likely to do with the PS2.

Probably right but it's still not a major selling point over the other 2.

steviec

Retr0gamer wrote:

Probably right but it's still not a major selling point over the other 2.

It's not a selling point but it probably should be. I'm sure people who bought PS2s 6 years ago and are playing Okami or FFXII and looking forward to GoW2 right now are thinking the console was a lot better value for money than Xbox or Gamecube owners who bought their machines 4 years ago. Even if the PS2 was 600 quid(and i'm pretty sure when you convert from punts and take inflation into account, it wasn't far off) it would have been easily the better value choice in the long run...

Retr0gamer

It will only last 10 years if it's successful.

shonuff4909

Maybe because its cheaper, but it is still outselling all other consoles world wide. Good quality games continue to come out for it and they are in high def if you have the right cables. Sony knows how to plan for the future and most likely the PS3 will demolish the competition now that they have come out with a simpler system for the developers to use in creating games for it. PS3 Home is another thing that will help to seperate it from the weak Xboxlive community. A second-life like world to interact with gamers and display trophies, have your own area where you can invite people to come to. Much better than a Mii or a stupid dashboard.

Wii- Is a passing fad. With the motion control its great but with Blue-Tooth capabilities anything is possible on the PS3 in the near future. The Graphics are subpar and they don't have a very good processor. It is great for families and kids but for the serious gamer it is a joke.

XBOX360- Is struggling to stay ahead of the times and compete with PS3 technology but the lack of a blue-ray or HD-dvd that plays game content they will in the future have smaller games, shorter games, graphics may be great but the games will be smaller, sound won't be as good, and develpoers will move to make games for the better system once they learn how to use it. Don't get me wrong I believe they will be better off than Wii.

In the end we all know Sony is gonna win, but I believe all the consoles have their own niches this time, which has never happened before. After the initial crazes over the new systems people will figure out which ones they think will best suit their gaming needs and buy that one or trade in the one they aren't happy with for another. Possibly buy them all if they are really hard-core which happens quite often.

Headshot

i believe that the xbox 360 and ps3 will be ahead of the wii in times to come

the wii is a passing fad

Ciaran500

shonuff4909 wrote:

Maybe because its cheaper, but it is still outselling all other consoles world wide. Good quality games continue to come out for it and they are in high def if you have the right cables. Sony knows how to plan for the future and most likely the PS3 will demolish the competition now that they have come out with a simpler system for the developers to use in creating games for it.

Heh

shonuff4909 wrote:

Wii- Is a passing fad. With the motion control its great but with Blue-Tooth capabilities anything is possible on the PS3 in the near future. The Graphics are subpar and they don't have a very good processor. It is great for families and kids but for the serious gamer it is a joke.

Yeah its only family and kids that are buying nearly 5 million Wii's :rolleyes:

shonuff4909 wrote:

XBOX360- Is struggling to stay ahead of the times and create with PS3 but the lack of a blue-ray or HD-dvd that plays game content they will in the future have smaller games, shorter, graphics may be great but the games will be smaller. Don't get me wrong I believe they will be better off than Wii.

They don't seem to be having any trouble yet and games don't get much bigger over a generation. The only game that I know of that uses multiple discs is packed with video.

mikeruurds

Sorry Sony... too little too late. My €700 has already been spent on Wii60 and there's just nothing about the PS3 that interests me.

PS Home, LittleBigPlanet... meh.

Mike

Ciaran500

#Elites wrote:

well you cant really compare the 360 to the PS3 (in my opinion the Wii doesnt count..its just not "up to standards") cus the 360 has been out much longer, and the ps3 isnt even out here.

I don't see why not, just cause one had the advantage of time doesn't mean the other should be excluded. They are all looking for our money and our support now (or very soon)

projectmayhem

shonuff4909 wrote:

Sony knows how to plan for the future and most likely the PS3 will demolish the competition now that they have come out with a simpler system for the developers to use in creating games for it.

i would imagine in 5 or 6 years time we'll see PS3 on top of the sales figures, but not by as much as PS2 vs. xbox. the idea that sony will "demolish" microsoft is rubbish...

shonuff4909 wrote:

PS3 Home is another thing that will help to seperate it from the weak Xboxlive community. A second-life like world to interact with gamers and display trophies, have your own area where you can invite people to come to. Much better than a Mii or a stupid dashboard.

i personally love the idea of the playstation home. it's an MMO, for free. of sorts. they just have to get everything around it right, a-la xbox live.

shonuff4909 wrote:

Wii- Is a passing fad. With the motion control its great but with Blue-Tooth capabilities anything is possible on the PS3 in the near future. The Graphics are subpar and they don't have a very good processor. It is great for families and kids but for the serious gamer it is a joke.

i have a Wii, and honestly, it is collecting dust right now. nothing interests me, but as soon as mario or something pops along i'll be all over it like a bad rash. you're comparing it to the PS3 in terms of graphics and processing power, which clearly says that you missed the point of the Wii. the idea is to be fun and interactive, bringing the original philosophy of games back...

shonuff4909 wrote:

XBOX360- Is struggling to stay ahead of the times and compete with PS3 technology but the lack of a blue-ray or HD-dvd that plays game content they will in the future have smaller games, shorter games, graphics may be great but the games will be smaller, sound won't be as good, and develpoers will move to make games for the better system once they learn how to use it.

i just got GRAW2, which impressed me beyond belief. i'm happy with my 360. especially since i got a hd-tv. also, it can play hd-dvds, but wont use it for games. if it comes to a situation whereby game length is an issue, you'll find packs on xbox live to download to extend the gameplay. but looking at oblivion, game play time is not an issue, and won't be for years. as for sound, it uses the same stuff as ps3 to output the sound, and right now the files are using the same bitrates.

shonuff4909 wrote:

Possibly buy them all if they are really hard-core which happens quite often.

hi.

BlitzKrieg

projectmayham defending both the 360 and the wii?


I believe I owe you an apology my good man, it seems at times I have misjudged you.

Id say the ps3 will do great if Blueray catches on

again we see the ifs...of the 3 consoles the only one who doesnt have to worry about ifs is the 360. This is why it is probably in the best position. It has 3rd party support, it has already proven and delivered on its niche (xbox live) and it has shown a strong line up of exclusives already or very close to release.


compared to the Wii, which is garunteed quality exclusives from nintendo but needs third party to prove they will treat it better then a gimmick (so far shockingly EA and less soUbisoft are the only ones to show such inklings.) its niche is in its control and while there are games out there that show it can be an amazing game experiance...there are too many at the moment not delivering.


and we've all heard the many many ifs of the ps3 so no need to blunder on some more.

jesus_thats_gre

LookingFor wrote:

GT5 is still coming, you know.

Without actually wanting to get into the argument as you guys are making plenty of good points.. When will this actually be released?

Also, Sony promised us a GT for the PSP. How is that coming along?

My point is that Sony are full of **** and will bandy around big names like MGS and GT for years before the games are launched just to peak peoples interests and stop buying a competitors console. MS did it with Halo too.




The upcoming list of software on the 360 is what is really interesting me at the moment though:

- Halo 3
- Mass Effect
- BioShock
- Forza 2
- PGR4
- GTA IV
- Assassins Creed
- C&C3
- Enemy Territory: QW

If rumours of them getting Sam and Max are also true then I will be even more delighted.

Headshot

projectmayhem wrote:

i just got GRAW2, which impressed me beyond belief. i'm happy with my 360.

Graw2 is superb, graphics are class