Virtual Image Of "New" O'Connell St. And Info On Plans

Karmafaerie

Sorry about the pic quality. I couldn't find it online, so I just scanned it from the paper.

CITY CENTRE €50m FACELIFT ON WAY By CLODAGH O'LEARY
AN ambitious €50m plan to transform the city centre was unveiled by Limerick City Council yesterday. The plan combines the pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street between William Street and Roches Street with the introduction of an Inner City Orbital Route, in a bid to make the city centre comparable with Europe's top cities.
The proposed Orbital Route around the city centre will create a mainly one-way, two lane, clockwise traffic system in three sections.The route will encircle the city centre, beginning at Mallow Street, around to Henry Street, Arthur's Quay, Charlotte's Quay onto Clare Street, Cathedral Place onto Sexton Street, Parnell Street and back on to Mallow Street.
Nick de Jong of Nicholas de Jong Associates, responsible for the design of the transformed city centre, told City Councillors that it is planned to convert Charlotte Quay into a one-way system, while Clare Street on to the Dublin Road will remain a two-way. There will be enhanced pedestrian access around the St John's Square area into the city and it is envisaged that there will be a new Link Road between Mulgrave Street and Sexton Street.
The Council hope to raise the huge amount needed for this project from the coffers of the National Development Plan's €300m Gateways Innovation Fund. Limerick city is one of the nine National Spatial Strategy Gateway Centres pinpointed in the NDP for regional investment. City Manager Tom Mackey said the launch of the "highly achievable" plan was in good timing.
"We plan to lift Limerick's position so that it can compete with other cities in Ireland, so that Limerick has a city centre adequate to compare with any city in Europe," City Manager told City Councillors.
"We want to create a vibrant city centre, and give priority to the people who live there, work there and shop there rather than giving priority to traffic."
"There will be a lot of consultation with the public, and we will enter into more detailed consultation with the gardai, taxis and Bus Eireann as well as traders. So there is a way to go on this," Mr Mackey told Councillors.
Director of Transportation and Infrastructure Pat Dromey added: "The one-way orbital routes in city centres are considered a very efficient and safe way of moving traffic with up to 50 per cent less turning at junctions and a decreased risk of collision."
The plan will officially go for public consultation in mid-March, as part of the Part 8 process. A private information seminar for City Councillors will be held in the next two weeks.
Mayor Leddin commented:"By investing millions of euro in the city we are matching the confidence of investors in our city who have invested huge amounts of money already here."

ninty9er

haha....I'll believe it when I see it

krudler

yeah that makes sense,pedestrianise the biggest street in town that carries a load of the cities traffic,cant wait to see the dock road on friday nights now...

Karmafaerie

ninty9er wrote:

haha....I'll believe it when I see it

I can understand the scepticism, but this is happening.
With Bedford Row and Thomas Street almost complete, all that's left is the pedestrianisation of Little Cathrine Street, Foxes Bowe and Limerick Lane, before this starts.
Expect O'Connell Street to be a crater by October!

krudler wrote:

yeah that makes sense,pedestrianise the biggest street in town that carries a load of the cities traffic,cant wait to see the dock road on friday nights now...

So you prefer having a National Highway going through the middle of the city?
O'Connell Street desperately needs pedestrianisation, and it's been over ten years since this plan was announced.
The traffic in Limerick is a disgrace, and this will not only ease that, but make Limerick a much more pedestrian/shopper friendly city.

In a couple of year Limerick will be completely bypassed anyway.

ellenmelon

Karmafaerie wrote:

In a couple of year Limerick will be completely bypassed anyway.

bypasses can be a bit of a double edged sword in my opinion...on the positive it reduces traffic within a city so its residents can move around a bit more freely..but might it also decrease the amount of visitors visiting the city? limerick struggles a wee bit as it is.
will be interesting to see what happens anyway.
about time its pedestrianised..its a bit of a shambles in there!
(have to say, im not holding my breath as to when it will be completed..but im hoping it will be done in about 3.5 years when im most likely to be back that way..)

ricey

Looks class.

Limerick Dude

Needed badly, will creat a really good atmosphere in the city centre.

billy the squid

Is every CGI image of a development in Limerick going to include munster flags from now on?

Karmafaerie

billy the squid wrote:

Is every CGI image of a development in Limerick going to include munster flags from now on?

Short answer. Yes.
The bandwagon's well and truly hitched, and LCC is gonna squeeze it for all it's worth!

sioda

This is a great plan Limerick is going to look fantastic in a few years

1huge1

^^ I think the city centre is already looking very impressive with the exception of william street

Karmafaerie

1huge1 wrote:

^^ I think the city centre is already looking very impressive with the exception of william street

Well William St. is next on the agenda.
Work is due to start there before O'Connell St. is even finished!

sioda

William street upper thomas street all of catherine street and BTs and penneys need facelifts

dv

Willy St. is certainly the biggest mank-athon in the city and hopefully they'll get to work on it before too long. Of course it sure is awful cramped with small footpaths, a taxi rank, loads of buses and on-street parking.

Work on upper Thomas St. and Lower Catherine St. is due to start around July/August, if I'm not mistaken.

Karmafaerie

dv wrote:

Willy St. is certainly the biggest mank-athon in the city and hopefully they'll get to work on it before too long. Of course it sure is awful cramped with small footpaths, a taxi rank, loads of buses and on-street parking.

Work on upper Thomas St. and Lower Catherine St. is due to start around July/August, if I'm not mistaken.

Well every single thing you mentioned is part of the plan to revamp William St.!

They're widening the footpaths, getting rid of the on-street parking, with the exception of two loading areas and the bus rank, setting new on street furniture and decorations, and planting a load of trees.
Should look a damn site better when finished.

There is however one major downside to all of this pedestrianisation that nobody has mentioned yet.
The whole place is gonna be covered with goppets, and muppets on skateboards!;)

dv

Can't help but wonder where all the buses are gonna go if they actually do remove the bus stops on both William and O'Connell St...

I still think it would be a good idea to allow public transport on an otherwise pedestrianised O'Connell St.

1huge1

ya I agree dv
I'd say the buses will end up on henry street though that will become very traffic ridden, maybe beside authers quay

Karmafaerie

Colbert Station is undergoing a makeover.
A proper bus terminal is being built next to the train station, so the station rather than O'Connell, William, and Henry St, will become the main bus hub.

dv

Where did you here that? I read alot about the redevlopment of the bus station but never saw anything about it becoming the hub for city services.

dv

Just found a very interesting document here:

http://www.limerickcity.ie/services/planning/CityCenterProjects/Limerick%20City%20Public%20Realm%

Some of the info is a bit out of date, but there's a fair bit I'd never heard/seen before aswell...

source

some very interesting ideas there, can't wait to see the river walk along the quays completed, it looks fantastic. especially the stone wall walkway along the castle.

Karmafaerie

foinse wrote:

some very interesting ideas there, can't wait to see the river walk along the quays completed, it looks fantastic. especially the stone wall walkway along the castle.

Well, lets hold off on that a while.
Admittedly it might be a good idea, but we are talking about defacing the walls of a castle that have stood there for 800 years!!!
Lets see if they deseign it to be a stand alone walkway, just off the castle, or not.
I'd fight tooth and nail if they decided to try and deface the castle and build it off the wall itself!:mad:

I agree though. Great post DV. Some great concepts and ideas there.
Some of the new parks, and improvements to the bridges look really good.

As for the bus station, I'll take a look and see if can find the article online.
It was mentioned as part of the proposed new traffic system by some councilor in an interview.

source

from the picture it looks like it is attached to the ground under the castle.....as opposed to the castle wall proper.... tbh i don't think any more damage could be done to the castle, that monstrosity at the front is ridiculous, at least this would be in keeping with the castle.

Limerick Dude

dv wrote:

Just found a very interesting document here:

http://www.limerickcity.ie/services/planning/CityCenterProjects/Limerick%20City%20Public%20Realm%

Some of the info is a bit out of date, but there's a fair bit I'd never heard/seen before aswell...

There is some very interesting stuff in there. The new pedestrain footbridge looks cool and the lighting effects they will put on all the bridges!

1huge1

I dont like the thought of moving the citty commuter buses to colbert from O Connell, Im not being lazy or anything but when your in the city centre its handy to get a bus out to the cresent because you only have to walk to brown thomas or somewere but having to walk up to colbert will be a nuisence I know its not a long distance but it will still be a pain I would rather not have to go thorugh each time. I hope your wrong about that

source

well they're staying on william street, so i'd say that they will keep the o'connell st stop but move it out of the pedestrian zone

Karmafaerie

foinse wrote:

from the picture it looks like it is attached to the ground under the castle.....as opposed to the castle wall proper.... tbh i don't think any more damage could be done to the castle, that monstrosity at the front is ridiculous, at least this would be in keeping with the castle.

The original "unofficial" plan was to have it abutting off the castle wall, but there's been strong opposition, so it's being reconsidered.
Personally I think the walkway would be a great addition, but only as long as it's done to match in with the wall, without damaging it further.

P.S: Foinze - I hate that glass contraption as much as the next person, but they really didn't have a choice.
When they knocked all the houses that were in there, the original plan was to rebuild the wall, but when preparing to do so, they found the remains of some houses under the foundations, that predated the castle itself!
Seeing as they couldn't damage the protected buildings, they had to develop something without a foundation, hence the floating building we all know and loathe!
It may be ugly, but it's better than a hole in the wall, and at least it serves a purpose!


As for the buses, the plan I heard was to still have them stopping at the usual places (ie: William St, O'Connell St, and Henry St), but for them to be there for less time.
More of a stop n' drop kinda thing, to keep the roads clear.
Then again, this was only one councilor talking, so it may not be even remotely accurate!;)

sioda

Karmafaerie: its nice to hear the real reason for the castle structure being mentioned as it gets a lot of stick but serves a vital purpose.

I am really looking forward to the new bus depot think it will bring easier access to the city and add to the transport links.

Gotta agree about the walkway though unless its an independent structure away from the castle I wold fight against it myself

Limerick Dude

Karmafaerie wrote:

Well, lets hold off on that a while.
Admittedly it might be a good idea, but we are talking about defacing the walls of a castle that have stood there for 800 years!!!
Lets see if they deseign it to be a stand alone walkway, just off the castle, or not.
I'd fight tooth and nail if they decided to try and deface the castle and build it off the wall itself!:mad:

I agree though. Great post DV. Some great concepts and ideas there.
Some of the new parks, and improvements to the bridges look really good.

As for the bus station, I'll take a look and see if can find the article online.
It was mentioned as part of the proposed new traffic system by some councilor in an interview.

Karma, have you not seen the picture of the stone walkway along the castke wall, it blends in really well with the caste and its not 'defacing' it as you put it, it looks really good.

Goofy

It sounds like there will still be bus stops around the city centre, but they will be stop and drop, and the main stops will be at the train station.
Great news if it is true. It will mean an end to the lines of empty busses on william street, o'connell street and maybe henry street when the bus drivers change over/ go on a break.

vkid

Goofy wrote:

It sounds like there will still be bus stops around the city centre, but they will be stop and drop, and the main stops will be at the train station.
Great news if it is true. It will mean an end to the lines of empty busses on william street, o'connell street and maybe henry street when the bus drivers change over/ go on a break.

I agree. Think its pretty crap having everyone hanging out for buses on main shopping streets. If the station upgrade goes ahead I would much prefer that to be the location of the city buses. Stop and drop points great but prefer to get rid of people hanging out for buses. (especially on William St - horrible to have to walk through that "bus stop")

dv

To be honest, I don't really see the need for the castle walkway myself. It would partially obscure a great view of the castle from the other side of the river (and it would have to be fairly high up so as not to be flooded at high tide) and I really don't think it's that important to have a circular walkway around the entire river. Is it that much hassle just to go around or double back? When it comes to 800 year old castles, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

What I do like:
The new river walks. O'Callaghan and Clancy strand (+ new park) work is supposed to start soon isn't it?

Lighting up bridges and especially Curragour falls. Not many cities have such a dramatic river feature.

The skateboard park - hurry up and build the bloody thing already!

Nice to see Sasfield St. Dunnes, Arthur's Quay, Roches/Penney's area marked as a "major development opportunity site". I know this doesn't mean anything's going to happen but at least it's someway recognised as the shameful waste of space it is.

Also nice to see the Crescent getting a mention, one of the nicest parts of the city centre.

dv

Double post. Bugger.

Karmafaerie

sioda wrote:

Karmafaerie: its nice to hear the real reason for the castle structure being mentioned as it gets a lot of stick but serves a vital purpose.

I am really looking forward to the new bus depot think it will bring easier access to the city and add to the transport links.

Gotta agree about the walkway though unless its an independent structure away from the castle I wold fight against it myself

TBH I was probably one of the ones so vehemently against it until I found out the reasoning.:D
I've always hated the building, but it was the best of a bad situation so to speak.

Limerick Dude wrote:

Karma, have you not seen the picture of the stone walkway along the castke wall, it blends in really well with the caste and its not 'defacing' it as you put it, it looks really good.

Well, I think that we can all agree that virtual images quite often look very different from the finished project.
Also, as DV pointed out, it would have to be higher than shown in that image in order for it to be above high tide.
I have no problem in theory with the walkway, but that stone walkway looks suspiciously like it was built right off the original wall.
That would mean that it would be damaging in the long run.
I'd much, much prefer that if they were going to have a walkway, they build it a few feet back from the wall, not up against it.

Clare gunner

Oh booy!!Can we say donut conurbation???
Soo we pedesterinise lower O Connell st up to what Cecil st?.So now all traffic has to go up William st,then go right and feed back into town to get to upper Limerick ,and Newtown Pery?Hmmmm!!

Next start modernising William st,which will be carrying double the traffic load from the ghost street that was O Connell st.Not to mind that the whole of Patrick st will be coming online to be dug up and demolished for the Oprea house project. End result;it will be better off avoiding city centre like the plauge for the next five years!!!!Which will do CC trading a power of good and force the few left out.
In a few years time O connell st will be an empty street full of to let shops,that no one wants because of delivery problems and access to by shoppers.Not to mind exhoribant rates and rent will make it unaffordable to anyone bar a chainstore.And then who wants to tramp amile carrying bags to your car ,when you can pull up outside a mall on the outskirts and have to walk a 100 meters max to your car?

Who thought this mess up at all down in city hall???No one obviously looked at other cities around the world to see what happens when you pedesterinise your main throughfares.
Sort of like blocking one major artery of your heart.

Goofy

The whole point of pedestrianisation is to force people to leave their cars outside the city centre. Thus making it more pleasent to shop there.
The shops on Bedford Row and Lower Thomas Street have said that business has increased significantly since the pedestrianisation.

Karmafaerie

CG, take a proper look at the plans.

A full orbital Traffic system has been laid out that would circumvent the entire city center, while still allowing the same freedom of movement, and even speeding up some of the traffic issues already there.

The Pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street is only going as far as Roches Street, and William Street will still have two lanes of one-way traffic, without the gridlock around centra and the rows of parked cars.

The whole idea of this pedestrianisation is to free up the city center, and orbital routes always prove better than what we have at the moment, which is a really bad system.

People are constantly coming on here and nay-saying against this project before they know a fraction of the facts.
This plan is to help traffic flow, as much as to pedestrianise the city center.

Here's the layout of the soon to be implemented new traffic system.



P.S: Don't forget, the last legs of the Limerick bypasses are now started, so Within the next couple of years there will be significantly less traffic coming through the city anyway.
I for one am fed up of the main street in Limerick being clogged up with Lorries.
No city should have a national route going through it's city center!

1huge1

Last legs of the bypass? you mean the tunnel yes?

and Clare Gunner your taking a very pessimistic look at it, from my experience of cities in germany with city centre's that are pedestrianised i.e dusseldorf and dortmund I can gurantee you there is no shops to let instead you have all the top brands sure look at beford row

Clare gunner

well 1huge1
I am half German and I can tell you thet alot of German cities are totally different to anything we have;

1]Most of their city centres were destroyed in the war to ground level and rebuilt with the concept of expansion in the future.IE roads were laid out with traffic of cars and trucks in mind.Ours are still built with asses and carts in mind,nor have our cities been demolished courtsey of Axis or Allied bombing.

2]Said buildings are now in the 30 /50 year age group and do not charge exhorbriant ground rates/rent that we are doing on new buildings...How many New shops are there around town that are up for rent???And not filled with top brand retailers.

3]Trying to compare Dusseldorf with a pouplation of 4million plus to Limerick is ludicrious.With 4million you will have the turnover to pay for exclusive city centre rents.I had a busisness in Limerick,and quit the city centre because the rates were killing me.

4]German cities already have included alt methods of transporting people IE busses and trams,and proper acess for people to deliver to said shops their supplies usually at 5am untill 7 AM. We are just falling out of the scratcher at this time in Ireland..:) .So I cant see THAT one working too well.
Plus if you dont want people coming by car into the city centre,you have to provide close parking areas or a shuttle bus service from the car parking areas.Are you going to want to lug a load of pshopping a mile to your car ????

5]Bedford Row...hmmm I was on it today.Still a big construction site on one end a pub[not open] a barber,a clothes shop,a nother building site starting,a massive ugly chipper and block house style red brick bank!! Horrible street furniture,and a already filthy with vomit stains, blood and dog ****e on a now grey slabbing.
No German city would allow or tolerate such a mess on it's street.Especially one opened so recently.

So NOTE to City and traffic planners.
Consider early morning deliveries like between 0400 to 0630,and 18:00 to 21:00 for trucks.After that any delivery and busisness that delivers outside that faces a 1000 euro fine!!! Works in London. NOTE also traffic wardens and other inconsiderate motorists out there.If your car does not have commerical insurance,please FUKoff out of the commerical parking bays!!!!:mad: :mad:
Your Beemer does not qualify as a van while you hop into Brown Thomas for that little cocktail number,and take 3 blooddy hours to decide and collect.They are there for people making deliveries and working vechicles to park to load or unload equipment.

Quit choking the main arteriers with construction sites.Henry St is a disaster!Visually as well as with traffic,it is now like a canyon in New York city!!!
Get the damn traffic lights from Shelbourne rd to upper William st to go GREEN all together.It is totally stupid when you come to Sarsfield bridge that the damn lights at Dunne stores go red and the other set including the new ones at the Hilton hotel[who thought THAT was a good idea??] are Green and the traffic backs up the bridge,while William st goes somwhat forward.
You would REALLY want to get that sorted out before you start going chopping up O Connell st.Then to keep this now vital route clear can I suggest digging it up and doing whatever in the Summer,prefably at night???
Not in Autumn,when everyone is doing the brat run to and from school.The town is an obstacle course enough due to bad policing of building sites,etc.

So now if I want to go to the Cresent going by this plan.I have to go up William st,turn right onSextonSt,down Parnell St,down Mallow St and then hope to find parking spaces in Newtown Pery??? Hmmm three times the distance,burning twice as much fuel in the traffic jam that will ensue,as these roads wont handle this double of traffic.Global warming anyone???
Limerick SNAFU.

Karmafaerie

1huge1 wrote:

Last legs of the bypass? you mean the tunnel yes?

I said the last legs have "started"!

I've lived here my whole life, don't worry, I'm used to Irish construction times by now!;)

talkingclock

William Street was closed for traffic due to the parade. It was very nice. Not the parade but William Street. A feeling of space and air! Enough room to walk along!