Should Croke Park be our National Stadium?

darkman2

Hi, the reaction from Europe to Croke Park (Especially from across the water) has been quite astounding. After the England match on Saturday there was nothing but praise for this great facility in the media and many overseas are asking why in gods name this is not the national stadium to accomodate all sports and events? Naturally the worlds media has given the GAA the type of advertising it could only dream of and they are making a mint out of these arrangements. I think many who were against the opening of Croke Park will probrably rethink that posistion in the light of the two memorable rugby matches staged there. It was a wonderful advertisement for our country. It showed the GAA in a new light and everyone wins.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/02/28/srinvr28.xml

So should the great stadium be opened always to rugby and soccer? Or would the GAA eventually lose out in such an arrangement? Given that Tax payers paid the majority of costs for the stadium is it rich of the GAA to say what we can and cant use the stadium for? Would you settle for Rugby to always be played in Croke Park at least? Or should they just close it away from the eyes of the world again in 2009? Are you one of the anti 'forgein games' brigade?


BTW should the Hill 16 terracing be developed to finish the stadium (giving capacity of well over 100,000 people). Thats John Inverdales point in that article. Does it look unfinished with the Hill? Or is the Hill just too important to us Dubs?;)

Nalz

Politics

GreenHell

Just ye dubs..

Croker is an amazing stadium, I'd like to see another 50-60k stadium developed, with maybe a running track from some stupid reason, then you could rotate games between the two ground.

IMHO Lansdowne road should be left to the history books.

RobertFoster

I thought they could develop the hill further because the GAA don't own the traintrack/land behind it?

Naked Lepper

the fact that the hill is made from the gpos rubble from the 1916 rising would probs be the main reason for opposition to changing it as well as the dubs wanting to keep it

i think croker should be open all the time, it makes me proud to see it on an international broadcast, unlike lansdowne which portrayed a image of 1970s stoney broke ireland

Daithí Locha

Croke Park should NOT in my opinion be our 'national' stadium, although whether the like it or not the floodgates are now open.

Those who argue for this are missing out on this following,salient point: Croke Park is the stadium of the NATIONAL SPORT, it's not a NATIONAL STADIUM.

The oval ball merchants and indeed their friends in the 26 county soccer body never had any interest in HQ before. The 26 county soccer administration squandered millions I'm sure - enough to have built a stadium or
renovated Dalymount when they squatted there. This crowd are a joke, CLG used hard work and volunteerism to create this stadium. The suits in the FAI (sic) seem to have wasted money. And if that's not bad enough they claim to be a 'national' team. (And before someone comes up with the hoary old chestnut about lottery money going into Croke Park, remember that this was unclaimed money)

As I say though, CLG have allowed themselves to be bought, I knew it would only be a matter of time before 'Croker' was fingered by those fans who never
set foot in the ground before, who begrudged the GAA and seen us as 'backward' and 'narrow'. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

I bet half (particularly the rugby crowd) of those who want 'Croker' to be a 'national' stadium would not let me, or the likes of me, use their conservatories or holiday homes anytime I felt like it.

BTW I'm not a member of any political party and am a working class Dub.

jesus_thats_gre

Sell Lansdowne Road to property developers and used that money to built a stadium somewhere on the outside of the city with adequate public transport links. Sticking it just beyond the airport alongside the proposed Subway would be nice but sure meh.

Terry

Before this goes any further, I would like to point out that any sniping or bitching will earn you an instant ban.
You will not be notified of this ban further than this post.
Play nice.

ANXIOUS

Firstly i dont think hill 16 will ever be seating, one as was already pointed out they dont own the train track secondly they would never get planning permission.


Also i dont think it should be used as a national stadium i feel that the possibilty of games clashing would be unacceptable to gaa members.

Unpossible

My class were told by our teacher (one of the kerry GAA bigwigs who I won't name), that Croke park is used quiet a lot by GAA games already and it wouldn't be possible to have a bunch of other sports regularly play there. Of course this confused me as across the continent you have soccer teams playing on their home grounds at least once every two weeks (this was also when I was in school so we are talking 7-8 years ago).

I think Croke Park should be an example to the government and other sporting bodies, we CAN build a world class stadium, we just need to give the money to a competent group and let them off to build it.

jesus_thats_gre

Daith&#237 wrote: »

Croke Park should NOT in my opinion be our 'national' stadium, although whether the like it or not the floodgates are now open.

Those who argue for this are missing out on this following,salient point: Croke Park is the stadium of the NATIONAL SPORT, it's not a NATIONAL STADIUM.

The oval ball merchants and indeed their friends in the 26 county soccer body never had any interest in HQ before. The 26 county soccer administration squandered millions I'm sure - enough to have built a stadium or
renovated Dalymount when they squatted there. This crowd are a joke, CLG used hard work and volunteerism to create this stadium. The suits in the FAI (sic) seem to have wasted money. And if that's not bad enough they claim to be a 'national' team. (And before someone comes up with the hoary old chestnut about lottery money going into Croke Park, remember that this was unclaimed money)

As I say though, CLG have allowed themselves to be bought, I knew it would only be a matter of time before 'Croker' was fingered by those fans who never
set foot in the ground before, who begrudged the GAA and seen us as 'backward' and 'narrow'. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

I bet half (particularly the rugby crowd) of those who want 'Croker' to be a 'national' stadium would not let me, or the likes of me, use their conservatories or holiday homes anytime I felt like it.

BTW I'm not a member of any political party and am a working class Dub.

You attempt to argue that the GAA are not historically a backwards organisation yet make a number of comments in your post that are typical of the comments from alot of GAA members on the topic and subsequently highlight that your opinion is just as backward.

Yes, the GAA did work hard from the stadium. Did you and I not also work hard for it considering the amount of money that was given by the tax payer to facilitate the construction of what is now one of the finest stadiums in the world.

And a working class Dub my balls. Who gives a **** who uses the stadium. Lansdowne Road or an alternatives should be developed but I cannot understand why the GAA would want to turn their nose up at the amounts of money that is literally been handed to them from hosting Rugby and Soccer matches. It is benefiting all sports and everyone else alike.

Daithí Locha

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

You attempt to argue that the GAA are not historically a backwards organisation yet make a number of comments in your post that are typical of the comments from alot of GAA members on the topic and subsequently highlight that your opinion is just as backward.

Yes, the GAA did work hard from the stadium. Did you and I not also work hard for it considering the amount of money that was given by the tax payer to facilitate the construction of what is now one of the finest stadiums in the world.

And a working class Dub my balls. Who gives a **** who uses the stadium. Lansdowne Road or an alternatives should be developed but I cannot understand why the GAA would want to turn their nose up at the amounts of money that is literally been handed to them from hosting Rugby and Soccer matches. It is benefiting all sports and everyone else alike.

Firstly, I simply mentioned who and what I am because I'm an honest person, and don't believe in hiding behind a keyboard. I agree with you, the GAA is open to all, unlike certain other sporting bodies on this island.

Secondly, you state that my views are concurrent with a lot of other GAA members. That's because a lot of us feel like this. Just because you disagree with our legitimate concerns does not make is backward - in fact it says a lot more about your level of argument than it does our concerns.

Thirdly, my tax money goes everywhere, there are, I'm sure, hundreds of organisations, arts councils, theatres etc where is has gone, and I don't begrudge that - that's called society. However, it is a moot argument - tax pays for things. Why wouldn't tax money pay for a stadium for an organisation
that has roots in every single parish, village, town, and city in the 32 counties?

GreenHell

Daith&#237 wrote: »

I bet half (particularly the rugby crowd) of those who want 'Croker' to be a 'national' stadium would not let me, or the likes of me, use their conservatories or holiday homes anytime I felt like it.

I'd let you use my conservatorie but I decided to build a new one, haven't got planning permission yet and I can't use my current one, which makes it a bitch to get out of my house in the morning. Maybe I could use yours until 2009?

skywalker

Daith&#237 wrote: »

Croke Park should NOT in my opinion be our 'national' stadium, although whether the like it or not the floodgates are now open.

Those who argue for this are missing out on this following,salient point: Croke Park is the stadium of the NATIONAL SPORT, it's not a NATIONAL STADIUM.

The oval ball merchants and indeed their friends in the 26 county soccer body never had any interest in HQ before. The 26 county soccer administration squandered millions I'm sure - enough to have built a stadium or
renovated Dalymount when they squatted there. This crowd are a joke, CLG used hard work and volunteerism to create this stadium. The suits in the FAI (sic) seem to have wasted money. And if that's not bad enough they claim to be a 'national' team. (And before someone comes up with the hoary old chestnut about lottery money going into Croke Park, remember that this was unclaimed money)

As I say though, CLG have allowed themselves to be bought, I knew it would only be a matter of time before 'Croker' was fingered by those fans who never
set foot in the ground before, who begrudged the GAA and seen us as 'backward' and 'narrow'. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

I bet half (particularly the rugby crowd) of those who want 'Croker' to be a 'national' stadium would not let me, or the likes of me, use their conservatories or holiday homes anytime I felt like it.

BTW I'm not a member of any political party and am a working class Dub.

We, as a country can continue with that kind of backward bitter outlook for the rest of our lives. Or perhaps put our differences aside, and do business, and good, for everybody.

CountryWise

If they really wanted to finish the Hill with seating i doubt planning would get in the way as the goverment would be involved and aslo their is a line near the Cusack too, id personally love to see it finished imagine the atmosphere if the stadium was closed in would be even greater.

Simply put it doesnt look finished, much like Twickenham didnt when it missed an end which they are finishing currently.

The thing the GAA must consider is if they finished it would it be full for GAA games, bar an All Ireland final or a semi final double header probably not, and its also a cheaper ticket alternative

StupidLikeAFox

Croker belongs to the GAA and they can do with it as they wish. If other sports want to play there there is a process involved. The rugby and soccer went through this and were successful.

The GAA should not be bullied by anyone into opening their stadium, keeping it closed or whatever. It is the GAAs stadium and nobody elses and thats that.

The GAA were given grants and funding, just like almost every other sport in the country, and they used it to build and develop their stadium. This was done with little or no interupption to their championships which run every year. They now have one of the finest stadiums in europe and again i have to say its theirs, nobody elses, and they cannot be forced by anyone to open it to other people if they dont want to!

event

Daith&#237 wrote: »

. This crowd are a joke, CLG used hard work and volunteerism to create this stadium.

and an awful lot of taxpayers money

Daith&#237 wrote: »

Thirdly, my tax money goes everywhere, there are, I'm sure, hundreds of organisations, arts councils, theatres etc where is has gone, and I don't begrudge that - that's called society. However, it is a moot argument - tax pays for things. Why wouldn't tax money pay for a stadium for an organisation
that has roots in every single parish, village, town, and city in the 32 counties?

So what, the tax payers can pay for it, but only the GAA can use it, simply because they are ingrained into society?

aye, thats fair:rolleyes:

jesus_thats_gre

Daith&#237 wrote: »

Secondly, you state that my views are concurrent with a lot of other GAA members. That's because a lot of us feel like this. Just because you disagree with our legitimate concerns does not make is backward - in fact it says a lot more about your level of argument than it does our concerns.

Christ alrighty.. Your concerns as to how it will affect the development and future of the GAA are perfectly valid. Your argument is not about Soccer or Rugby damaging the pitch or encrouching on GAA events.

However, the underlying feelings that alot of GAA (not all by any means) members harbour on the subject belong buried in the past. These "concerns" are not valid in the slightest and can only be described as backward.

Daith&#237 wrote: »

Thirdly, my tax money goes everywhere, there are, I'm sure, hundreds of organisations, arts councils, theatres etc where is has gone, and I don't begrudge that - that's called society. However, it is a moot argument - tax pays for things. Why wouldn't tax money pay for a stadium for an organisation
that has roots in every single parish, village, town, and city in the 32 counties?

And out of curiosity, what did these peoples representatives vote in favour off when the GAA last convened on the matter? You know, the one where the majority of the organisation was in favour of allowing sports of British origin to be played in the stadium.

We can return to the classical argument of why ye feel it is ok for concerts, athletics and American Football to be played there every few months of the year but the same welcome cannot be afforded to the these British sports. Only if you want that is.

jesus_thats_gre

ColHol wrote:

Croker belongs to the GAA and they can do with it as they wish. If other sports want to play there there is a process involved. The rugby and soccer went through this and were successful.

The GAA should not be bullied by anyone into opening their stadium, keeping it closed or whatever. It is the GAAs stadium and nobody elses and thats that.

The GAA were given grants and funding, just like almost every other sport in the country, and they used it to build and develop their stadium. This was done with little or no interupption to their championships which run every year. They now have one of the finest stadiums in europe and again i have to say its theirs, nobody elses, and they cannot be forced by anyone to open it to other people if they dont want to!

No one is disputing this I think. The problem I have with the whole issue is that it makes no sense for the GAA not to rent out the use of their stadium for the odd event when they making a massive profit out of it. If it was a case that the events were effecting their own schedules, excessively damaging the pitch or making a loss, then it makes perfect sense to refuse other sports the option to host an event there. Unfortunately, to reject other sports while the potential for great profit exists is absolute lunacy and betrayal to the grass roots of the GAA who work hard to ensure that the association has enough money to ensure continued growth and development. To deny such potential based on what one can only assume is because they are sports of British sports (officially or unofficially) is simply wrong.

Sleepy

Daith&#237 wrote: »

Thirdly, my tax money goes everywhere, there are, I'm sure, hundreds of organisations, arts councils, theatres etc where is has gone, and I don't begrudge that - that's called society. However, it is a moot argument - tax pays for things. Why wouldn't tax money pay for a stadium for an organisation that has roots in every single parish, village, town, and city in the 32 counties?

Did the British government give the GAA grants towards Croker? Because if not, frankly I have a problem with the six counties of Northern Ireland using the stadium since they didn't pay for it.

humanji

Maybe I'm missing the point, but why can't other sports play there? I mean, if there are GAA games scheduled, then they tale precedence, but why not let the odd game of another sport play there. The GAA will make a fortune, which they can put into developing other grounds. So far, the only real reason that seems to be given for not letting sports play there is that people want to dwell on the past.

jesus_thats_gre

humanji wrote:

Maybe I'm missing the point, but why can't other sports play there? I mean, if there are GAA games scheduled, then they tale precedence, but why not let the odd game of another sport play there. The GAA will make a fortune, which they can put into developing other grounds. So far, the only real reason that seems to be given for not letting sports play there is that people want to dwell on the past.

This is pretty much exactly what I am trying to say. It seems they are cutting their own nose off to spite their face.

tricky@

CountryWise wrote:

The thing the GAA must consider is if they finished it would it be full for GAA games, bar an All Ireland final or a semi final double header probably not, and its also a cheaper ticket alternative

The Hill as a terrace holds approx 15,000 at the moment so if they were to "finish it", the capacity of a two tier stand, like the canal end at the other end of the ground would be roughly similar, if not less than this.

netwhizkid

It is a thundering Disgrace that foreign games were allowed into Croke Park and for it to be made a "National Stadium" is another disgrace. Croke Park was built on the blood, sweat and tears of many a true Irish Patriot.

Mr.Bertie Ahern promised a national stadium a few years back, if anybody has a problem with a lack of one I suggest they take it up with the Fianna Fail Parliamentary party when they come a knocking on the doors soon. Don't expect the GAA to pick up the tab for another Fianna Fail failure. This is to be a temporary arrangement and it will stay that way.

Terry

Umm, wasn't the bertie bowl shot down by everyone else?
Bertie tried his best to get an new stadium built, but was blocked all the way.
Take your political agenda to the place it belongs.

chubba1984

I'm sick to death of listening to very misinformed people saying that Croke park was funded almost entirely by the taxpayer. An once-off grant of E60 million, less than 20% of the total cost was given by the Exchequer and the GAA are being held to ransom over this. Bear in mind that almost E200 of the refurbishment of the new Lansdowne Road will be funded by the public coffers and it puts it into some sort of perspective.

The GAA own Croke Park and can rent it out to whomever they like according to their own terms as informed by their membership. The GAA should have every entitlement to use Lansdowne Road as well if the argument that other sports should be always allowed to take place in Croke park is put forward. The fact that the only professionally run sporting organisation in this country has an amateur playing base is not the GAA's fault. In the last 20 years, soccer and rugby have got similar grant aid for sporting projects as the GAA. How is it possible that the amatuer organisation has excellent facilities in virtually every parish in Ireland whereas soccer facilities are non-existent. I find rugby facilities, where they do exist, are exceptional.

Croke Park is the best stadium in the country, owned by the GAA and funded by its members. Nobody has the right other than their members to tell them what they can or can't do with it.

jesus_thats_gre

netwhizkid wrote:

It is a thundering Disgrace that foreign games were allowed into Croke Park and for it to be made a "National Stadium" is another disgrace. Croke Park was built on the blood, sweat and tears of many a true Irish Patriot.

Mr.Bertie Ahern promised a national stadium a few years back, if anybody has a problem with a lack of one I suggest they take it up with the Fianna Fail Parliamentary party when they come a knocking on the doors soon. Don't expect the GAA to pick up the tab for another Fianna Fail failure. This is to be a temporary arrangement and it will stay that way.

Seriously, you come acrosss as an over excited tart sometimes. Constant ****ing FF bashing is getting rediculous!!

Unpossible

Sleepy wrote:

I have a problem with the six counties of Northern Ireland using the stadium since they didn't pay for it.

So do you have a problem with the GAA teams of those counties playing in Croke park? Or is it just with the people from those counties who play "foreign games" ?

styer

Chubba1986.. thank you for finally explaining funding of Croke park to the misinformed people.... And I totally agree 20 percent is nothing compared to what the GAA for every parish in the country...

Another point that people tend to miss is that the planning permission for the grounds only allows a certain number of events to take place in Croke park every year... thus limiting the number of times the GAA can "rent" the stadium out....

chubba1984 wrote:

I'm sick to death of listening to very misinformed people saying that Croke park was funded almost entirely by the taxpayer. An once-off grant of E60 million, less than 20% of the total cost was given by the Exchequer and the GAA are being held to ransom over this. Bear in mind that almost E200 of the refurbishment of the new Lansdowne Road will be funded by the public coffers and it puts it into some sort of perspective.

The GAA own Croke Park and can rent it out to whomever they like according to their own terms as informed by their membership. The GAA should have every entitlement to use Lansdowne Road as well if the argument that other sports should be always allowed to take place in Croke park is put forward. The fact that the only professionally run sporting organisation in this country has an amateur playing base is not the GAA's fault. In the last 20 years, soccer and rugby have got similar grant aid for sporting projects as the GAA. How is it possible that the amatuer organisation has excellent facilities in virtually every parish in Ireland whereas soccer facilities are non-existent. I find rugby facilities, where they do exist, are exceptional.

Croke Park is the best stadium in the country, owned by the GAA and funded by its members. Nobody has the right other than their members to tell them what they can or can't do with it.

jesus_thats_gre

chubba1984 wrote:

I'm sick to death of listening to very misinformed people saying that Croke park was funded almost entirely by the taxpayer. An once-off grant of E60 million, less than 20% of the total cost was given by the Exchequer and the GAA are being held to ransom over this. Bear in mind that almost E200 of the refurbishment of the new Lansdowne Road will be funded by the public coffers and it puts it into some sort of perspective.

The GAA own Croke Park and can rent it out to whomever they like according to their own terms as informed by their membership. The GAA should have every entitlement to use Lansdowne Road as well if the argument that other sports should be always allowed to take place in Croke park is put forward. The fact that the only professionally run sporting organisation in this country has an amateur playing base is not the GAA's fault. In the last 20 years, soccer and rugby have got similar grant aid for sporting projects as the GAA. How is it possible that the amatuer organisation has excellent facilities in virtually every parish in Ireland whereas soccer facilities are non-existent. I find rugby facilities, where they do exist, are exceptional.

Croke Park is the best stadium in the country, owned by the GAA and funded by its members. Nobody has the right other than their members to tell them what they can or can't do with it.

I totally agree, an agreement should be put in place whereby the GAA can use Lansdowne Road for events that wouldn't maybe fill Croke park and the FAI/IRFU could maybe use Croke Parl events that would fill Lansdowne Road twice over.. Jesus wouldn't that make rediculous sense..


Loads of different figures being bandied about as to how much was given by tax payers. One particular argument agains the goverment funding lark that I love is that the GAA shouldn't even have to say thanks for it as they have given the money back two fold in VAT receipts since the stadium opened.



http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0930/gaa.html

According to this link, the goverment has given €110 million to the GAA for Croke Park out of a total cost of €265.

grahamo

darkman2 wrote:

Hi, the reaction from Europe to Croke Park (Especially from across the water) has been quite astounding. After the England match on Saturday there was nothing but praise for this great facility in the media and many overseas are asking why in gods name this is not the national stadium to accomodate all sports and events? Naturally the worlds media has given the GAA the type of advertising it could only dream of and they are making a mint out of these arrangements. I think many who were against the opening of Croke Park will probrably rethink that posistion in the light of the two memorable rugby matches staged there. It was a wonderful advertisement for our country. It showed the GAA in a new light and everyone wins.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/02/28/srinvr28.xml

So should the great stadium be opened always to rugby and soccer? Or would the GAA eventually lose out in such an arrangement? Given that Tax payers paid the majority of costs for the stadium is it rich of the GAA to say what we can and cant use the stadium for? Would you settle for Rugby to always be played in Croke Park at least? Or should they just close it away from the eyes of the world again in 2009? Are you one of the anti 'forgein games' brigade?


BTW should the Hill 16 terracing be developed to finish the stadium (giving capacity of well over 100,000 people). Thats John Inverdales point in that article. Does it look unfinished with the Hill? Or is the Hill just too important to us Dubs?;)

NO! Soccer and Rugby fans should have their own stadium. I'm already sick of GAA fans going on how we should be eternally grateful to them for RENTING us their stadium. The sooner the better we get back to Landsdowne. What the GAA fans need to remember is a lot of Taxpayers money went into Croker. And not all taxpayers are GAA fans! Fair play to the GAA. They got a great stadium but I think its only fair soccer fans and rugby fans get a great stadium too.