2.10 Patch notes

shinzon

Druid tank nerfs, warrior tank buffs!

General

- Some logic was fixed in the "Natural Remedies" quest so that Pathaleon the Calculator's Image will always spawn during the ritual.
- Goliathon and his shardlings can no longer be pulled to nearby areas that have guards.
- More fixes implemented in the "It's a Fel Reaver, But With Heart" quest to keep the Scrapped Fel Reaver from breaking.
- The Orb of the Blackwhelp and Hallowed Wands can no longer be used in combat, and the transformation will be canceled if the player receives damage.
- The Scrap Reaver in Netherstorm repairs reduced from 10,000 health to 8,500 health over 10 seconds.
-Battle of the Crimson Watch
Illidari Mind Breaker has been weakened.
Illidari Highlords can now be CC'ed but not Charmed.

PvP
Arenas
The cost of the "Gladiator's Slicer" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Quickblade" has been decreased to 1125 arena points and changed to offhand only.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Cleaver" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Hacker" has been decreased to 1125 arena points and changed to offhand only.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Pummeler" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Bonecracker" has been decreased to 1125 arena points and changed to offhand only.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Right Ripper" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Left Ripper" has been decreased to 1125 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Shanker" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Shiv" has been decreased to 1125 arena points and changed to offhand only.
The cost of the "Gladiator's War Edge" has been decreased to 1000 arena points and the speed changed to 1.9.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Spellblade" has been increased to 3150 arena points.
The cost of the "Touch of Defeat" has been decreased to 1000 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Endgame" has been decreased to 1125 arena points.
The cost of the "Idol of Tenacity" has been decreased to 1000 arena points.
The cost of the "Libram of Justice" has been decreased to 1000 arena points.
The cost of the "totem of the Third Wind" has been decreased to 1000 arena points.


Druids

- When the duration of "Cyclone" ends, area buffs such as "Leader of the Pack", "Tree of Life", and "Moonkin" will now be correctly resumed.
- "Bear Form" now grants 25% increased stamina instead of 25% increased health.
- "Dire Bear Form" now grants 25% increased stamina instead of 25% increased health. In addition, the armor bonus has been reduced from 450% to 400%.
- The multiplier on base weapon damage for "Mangle (Bear)" ability has been changed from 130% to 100%. In addition, the bonus damage has been reduced by the same ratio.
- "Savage Fury" no longer affects "Mangle (Bear)".
- "Savage Fury" no longer applies to "Maul" or "Swipe".
- The critical damage bonus on "Predatory Instincts" reduced from 3/6/9/12/15% to 2/4/6/8/10%.
- "Improved Leader of the Pack" can no longer get critical heals.
- The armor bonus from "Moonkin Form" has been increased from 360% to 400% (to match Dire Bear Form).
- The rage normalization equation has been adjusted to grant more rage.

Paladins

- The slowing affect from "Avenger's Shield" is now considered a snare, so snare removal and immunity affects will now work on it.

Priests

- The base healing percent from "Vampiric Embrace" has been reduced to 15% from 20%. In addition, this ability can no longer get critical heals.
- "Silent Resolve" no longer reduces threat generated by Shadow spells.
- Prayer of Mending now has a 20 second cooldown.
- If a targeted enemy has a magic effect granting immunity to spell or physical damage, “Mass Dispel” will now always pick that effect as its target.

Shaman

- The clearcasting effect from "Elemental Focus" now triggers on all spell critical strikes, rather than a chance on any spell hit.
- The shaman will no longer generate additional threat when "Unleashed Rage" triggers.
- The free Lightning spell cast from "Lightning Overload" will now cause reduced threat.
- "Stoneclaw Totem" now has a 50% chance to stun attackers for 3 sec. when struck.

Warlock

- "Demonic Tactics" now grants increased critical strike chance to you and your demon pet, instead of increased damage.

Warriors

- The rage normalization equation has been adjusted to grant more rage. The typical warrior should see an increase of 15% to 20% in their rage generation.
- All warriors had their critical strike chance adjusted upward slightly (about 1%).
- "Thunder Clap" is now useable in Defensive Stance. In addition, the tooltip has been adjusted to indicate it causes additional threat.
- The cooldown on "Victory Rush" has been removed, and it can now be used up to 20 seconds after killing an enemy.
- "Unbridled Wrath" has been modified so that rather than a fixed chance to grant rage, it has an increased chance when using slower weapons.

Items

- The threat generated from the spell effect on "Thunderfury" has been substantially reduced. ( /cry, buuhuu)
- The bonus to "Swipe" from the "Idol of Brutality" has been reduced from 50 to 10.
- "Alchemist's Stone" will no longer increase healing and mana gained from items which are not potions.
- The cost of sockets in high end items has been adjusted slightly, the result is that most high end epic items should see an increase in stats.
- Corrected many items that had incorrect stat values assigned to them.
- The rewards from the "Fel Embers" quest are now superior items as intended.
- Reduced the damage dealt by "The Lightning Capacitor".
- Corrected the level requirement of the "Fist of Reckoning".
- "Necklace of Trophies" has been corrected to increase Hit Rating instead of Hit Avoidance.
- "Burnoose of Shifting Ages" can now be disenchanted.
- "Nethershrike" now has the proper sell value and can be disenchanted.
- Corrected the level of "Marksman's Bow" to be in line with other epic reputation rewards.
- The "Marksman's Bow" now has the proper damage range.
- "Hourglass of the Unraveller" will now properly increase ranged attack power.
- Corrected the socket bonus for "Soul-Collar of the Incarnate".
- Corrected a typo in the set bonus of "Warbringer Armor".
- "Ruby Slippers" now properly have a cast time.
- Corrected the min use level of "Terokk's Shadowstaff".
- "Warpscale Leggings" have had their Crit Rating updated to the intended Dodge Rating.
- "Warmaul Slayer's Band" no longer has critical strike rating. However, its agility and attack power have been increased.
- "Ancient Draenei War Talisman" now shares a cooldown with all trinkets that temporarily increase damage done.
- "Ancient Draenei Arcane Relic" shares a cooldown with all trinkets that temporarily increase damage done.
- "Aldor Guardian Rifle" now has a range correctly set on it.
- The effect on "Void Star Talisman" was incorrectly set to On Use. It is now set to On Equip.
- The critical strike rating on "Cilice of Suffering" has been changed to spell critical strike rating.
- The cooldown for "Glimmering Mithril Insignia" has been increased from 10 minutes to 20 minutes.
- The slowing affect from the "Mug 'O Hurt" is now considered a snare, so snare removal and immunity affects will now work on it.

Raids and Dungeons

- Creatures in Tempest Keep:Botanica, Tempest Keep: Mechanar, and Tempest Keep:Arcatraz no longer respawn as rapidly.
- Shadow Labyrinth :
Reduced the chance of a Cabal Assassin ambush.
- Shattered Halls:
Removed a problematic chest.
The "Resist Shadow" spell cast by Shadowmoon Acolyte's in Shattered Halls will now be removed if a player leaves the zone.
- Serpentshrine Cavern
Boss creatures have received additional tuning and polish.
- Arcatraz
Warder and Defender Corpses are now immune to spell effects that could cause the Protean Spawn to not spawn.
Protean Spawn now deal less damage.
- Tempest Keep Mechanar
Mechanar Drillers, Wreckers, and Crushers in Tempest Keep: The Mechanar may no longer be enslaved when in Heroic mode.
- Caverns of Time
Captain Skarloc in Caverns of Time: Escape from Durnholde is no longer susceptible to disarm, and does not slow down when wounded.
A defeat in the Caverns of Time: Opening of the Dark Portal instance will no longer despawn unlooted bosses with loot.
Occasionally after players are defeated in the Caverns of Time: Opening of the Dark Portal encounter on Heroic difficulty, the placeholder versions of the bosses that appear in future attempts that day would not spawn. The proper placeholders will now spawn instead of Rift Lords and Rift Keepers.
Boss creatures in Caverns of Time: Opening of the Dark Portal will now dispel all nearby Time Keepers instead of one at a time.
- Karazhan
Maiden of Virtue's "Holy Wrath" has been slightly retuned to try and allow additional melee attackers to be used against her.
Maiden of Virtue's "Holy Fire" has been adjusted to prevent a possible range exploit.
Maiden of Virtue will no longer "Holy Fire" players under the effect of "Repentance".
Midnight is no longer susceptible to Bleed effects, since he's a skeletal horse.
Nightbane's Restless Skeletons are now immune to non-holy magical damage.
Restless Skeletons no longer have immolation.
Nightbane's Bone Shard Spray can no longer be interrupted by using an immunity effect.
Some minor issues with the Library Tomes have been corrected.


Shin

WellyJ

shinzon wrote:

Druid tank nerfs, warrior tank buffs!

General

- Some logic was fixed in the "Natural Remedies" quest so that Pathaleon the Calculator's Image will always spawn during the ritual.
- Goliathon and his shardlings can no longer be pulled to nearby areas that have guards.
- More fixes implemented in the "It's a Fel Reaver, But With Heart" quest to keep the Scrapped Fel Reaver from breaking.
- The Orb of the Blackwhelp and Hallowed Wands can no longer be used in combat, and the transformation will be canceled if the player receives damage.
- The Scrap Reaver in Netherstorm repairs reduced from 10,000 health to 8,500 health over 10 seconds.
-Battle of the Crimson Watch
Illidari Mind Breaker has been weakened.
Illidari Highlords can now be CC'ed but not Charmed.

PvP
Arenas
The cost of the "Gladiator's Slicer" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Quickblade" has been decreased to 1125 arena points and changed to offhand only.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Cleaver" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Hacker" has been decreased to 1125 arena points and changed to offhand only.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Pummeler" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Bonecracker" has been decreased to 1125 arena points and changed to offhand only.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Right Ripper" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Left Ripper" has been decreased to 1125 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Shanker" has been increased to 2625 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Shiv" has been decreased to 1125 arena points and changed to offhand only.
The cost of the "Gladiator's War Edge" has been decreased to 1000 arena points and the speed changed to 1.9.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Spellblade" has been increased to 3150 arena points.
The cost of the "Touch of Defeat" has been decreased to 1000 arena points.
The cost of the "Gladiator's Endgame" has been decreased to 1125 arena points.
The cost of the "Idol of Tenacity" has been decreased to 1000 arena points.
The cost of the "Libram of Justice" has been decreased to 1000 arena points.
The cost of the "totem of the Third Wind" has been decreased to 1000 arena points.


Druids

- When the duration of "Cyclone" ends, area buffs such as "Leader of the Pack", "Tree of Life", and "Moonkin" will now be correctly resumed.
- "Bear Form" now grants 25% increased stamina instead of 25% increased health.
- "Dire Bear Form" now grants 25% increased stamina instead of 25% increased health. In addition, the armor bonus has been reduced from 450% to 400%.
- The multiplier on base weapon damage for "Mangle (Bear)" ability has been changed from 130% to 100%. In addition, the bonus damage has been reduced by the same ratio.
- "Savage Fury" no longer affects "Mangle (Bear)".
- "Savage Fury" no longer applies to "Maul" or "Swipe".
- The critical damage bonus on "Predatory Instincts" reduced from 3/6/9/12/15% to 2/4/6/8/10%.
- "Improved Leader of the Pack" can no longer get critical heals.
- The armor bonus from "Moonkin Form" has been increased from 360% to 400% (to match Dire Bear Form).
- The rage normalization equation has been adjusted to grant more rage.

Paladins

- The slowing affect from "Avenger's Shield" is now considered a snare, so snare removal and immunity affects will now work on it.

Priests

- The base healing percent from "Vampiric Embrace" has been reduced to 15% from 20%. In addition, this ability can no longer get critical heals.
- "Silent Resolve" no longer reduces threat generated by Shadow spells.
- Prayer of Mending now has a 20 second cooldown.
- If a targeted enemy has a magic effect granting immunity to spell or physical damage, “Mass Dispel” will now always pick that effect as its target.

Shaman

- The clearcasting effect from "Elemental Focus" now triggers on all spell critical strikes, rather than a chance on any spell hit.
- The shaman will no longer generate additional threat when "Unleashed Rage" triggers.
- The free Lightning spell cast from "Lightning Overload" will now cause reduced threat.
- "Stoneclaw Totem" now has a 50% chance to stun attackers for 3 sec. when struck.

Warlock

- "Demonic Tactics" now grants increased critical strike chance to you and your demon pet, instead of increased damage.

Warriors

- The rage normalization equation has been adjusted to grant more rage. The typical warrior should see an increase of 15% to 20% in their rage generation.
- All warriors had their critical strike chance adjusted upward slightly (about 1%).
- "Thunder Clap" is now useable in Defensive Stance. In addition, the tooltip has been adjusted to indicate it causes additional threat.
- The cooldown on "Victory Rush" has been removed, and it can now be used up to 20 seconds after killing an enemy.
- "Unbridled Wrath" has been modified so that rather than a fixed chance to grant rage, it has an increased chance when using slower weapons.

Items

- The threat generated from the spell effect on "Thunderfury" has been substantially reduced. ( /cry, buuhuu)
- The bonus to "Swipe" from the "Idol of Brutality" has been reduced from 50 to 10.
- "Alchemist's Stone" will no longer increase healing and mana gained from items which are not potions.
- The cost of sockets in high end items has been adjusted slightly, the result is that most high end epic items should see an increase in stats.
- Corrected many items that had incorrect stat values assigned to them.
- The rewards from the "Fel Embers" quest are now superior items as intended.
- Reduced the damage dealt by "The Lightning Capacitor".
- Corrected the level requirement of the "Fist of Reckoning".
- "Necklace of Trophies" has been corrected to increase Hit Rating instead of Hit Avoidance.
- "Burnoose of Shifting Ages" can now be disenchanted.
- "Nethershrike" now has the proper sell value and can be disenchanted.
- Corrected the level of "Marksman's Bow" to be in line with other epic reputation rewards.
- The "Marksman's Bow" now has the proper damage range.
- "Hourglass of the Unraveller" will now properly increase ranged attack power.
- Corrected the socket bonus for "Soul-Collar of the Incarnate".
- Corrected a typo in the set bonus of "Warbringer Armor".
- "Ruby Slippers" now properly have a cast time.
- Corrected the min use level of "Terokk's Shadowstaff".
- "Warpscale Leggings" have had their Crit Rating updated to the intended Dodge Rating.
- "Warmaul Slayer's Band" no longer has critical strike rating. However, its agility and attack power have been increased.
- "Ancient Draenei War Talisman" now shares a cooldown with all trinkets that temporarily increase damage done.
- "Ancient Draenei Arcane Relic" shares a cooldown with all trinkets that temporarily increase damage done.
- "Aldor Guardian Rifle" now has a range correctly set on it.
- The effect on "Void Star Talisman" was incorrectly set to On Use. It is now set to On Equip.
- The critical strike rating on "Cilice of Suffering" has been changed to spell critical strike rating.
- The cooldown for "Glimmering Mithril Insignia" has been increased from 10 minutes to 20 minutes.
- The slowing affect from the "Mug 'O Hurt" is now considered a snare, so snare removal and immunity affects will now work on it.

Raids and Dungeons

- Creatures in Tempest Keep:Botanica, Tempest Keep: Mechanar, and Tempest Keep:Arcatraz no longer respawn as rapidly.
- Shadow Labyrinth :
Reduced the chance of a Cabal Assassin ambush.
- Shattered Halls:
Removed a problematic chest.
The "Resist Shadow" spell cast by Shadowmoon Acolyte's in Shattered Halls will now be removed if a player leaves the zone.
- Serpentshrine Cavern
Boss creatures have received additional tuning and polish.
- Arcatraz
Warder and Defender Corpses are now immune to spell effects that could cause the Protean Spawn to not spawn.
Protean Spawn now deal less damage.
- Tempest Keep Mechanar
Mechanar Drillers, Wreckers, and Crushers in Tempest Keep: The Mechanar may no longer be enslaved when in Heroic mode.
- Caverns of Time
Captain Skarloc in Caverns of Time: Escape from Durnholde is no longer susceptible to disarm, and does not slow down when wounded.
A defeat in the Caverns of Time: Opening of the Dark Portal instance will no longer despawn unlooted bosses with loot.
Occasionally after players are defeated in the Caverns of Time: Opening of the Dark Portal encounter on Heroic difficulty, the placeholder versions of the bosses that appear in future attempts that day would not spawn. The proper placeholders will now spawn instead of Rift Lords and Rift Keepers.
Boss creatures in Caverns of Time: Opening of the Dark Portal will now dispel all nearby Time Keepers instead of one at a time.
- Karazhan
Maiden of Virtue's "Holy Wrath" has been slightly retuned to try and allow additional melee attackers to be used against her.
Maiden of Virtue's "Holy Fire" has been adjusted to prevent a possible range exploit.
Maiden of Virtue will no longer "Holy Fire" players under the effect of "Repentance".
Midnight is no longer susceptible to Bleed effects, since he's a skeletal horse.
Nightbane's Restless Skeletons are now immune to non-holy magical damage.
Restless Skeletons no longer have immolation.
Nightbane's Bone Shard Spray can no longer be interrupted by using an immunity effect.
Some minor issues with the Library Tomes have been corrected.


Shin

Good to see those druids getting nerfed, ridiculous at the moment, out tanking warriors, out healing priests, out damaging rogues....

Bull****

BKtje

I like the warrior changes, thunderclap in def stance? Woot
More rage and a little more crit, another woot.

Binomate

Makes me want to puke. Back to having 0 survivability in pvp again. How am I suposed to heal in battlegrounds if I don't live any longer than three seconds? First time I've seriously thought about giving up my priest. I can't understand why they nerfed priests so bad. Really, these nerfs are getting rediculous. This patch is just a reminder of how shit the devs are. Why don't they just try and make the game balanced instead of making one class the flavour of the month. This patch is an absolute joke. I know Druids were in need of a slight nerf, but for **** sake, they're going to be useless now. A friend of mine put it nicely. Druids before, had insane dps and insane survivability. They needed a nerf. Instead of nerfing one of those, they nerfed both. WTF?

BKtje

err what exactly is the big change to priests? you do 5% less healing with vamp embrace?

Binomate

That's the least of our worries. Prayer of mending with a 20second cooldown is just retarded. They only way we can live longer than 3 seconds in battlegrounds is by spamming ourselves with pom. It's the only spell we have to heal ourselves that can't be interrupted.

The threath reduction talents not working for shadow priests is a real nail in the coffin for shadow priests too. Just when guilds started accepting shadow priests, because they realise the benefits, they suddenly become useless for raiding. Vampiric touch returning mana to your casters and healers, or vampiric embrace returning health to your dps. The amount of stuff being returned to your party is dwarfed now because the priest is going to have to watch his agro a lot more now and do a lot lighter dps.

If things aren't changed in those patch notes, priests won't even be an option for healing in arenas and in battlegrounds, and shadow priests will all have to respec holy for raiding. It's a complete joke.

Kevok

Poor Druids. This is an execution, not a nerf. How short a memory wow players have to forget druids were free kills pre 2.0. Back to normal eh?

anonymous_joe

Argh. As a rogue I pretty much need a druid tank these days. :rolleyes:

Priests get nerfed, dont see any reason for that either.

rainbow kirby

Druids and priests just got destroyed

f a targeted enemy has a magic effect granting immunity to spell or physical damage, “Mass Dispel” will now always pick that effect as its target.

Stealth paladin nerf. /cry

Mr. CooL ICE

Can't complain too much about the priest nerfs, but it is pretty crap about silent resolve. They should have also increased the threat reduced from 25% to at least 30% to cut the shadow priests some slack. Makes no difference to me though cos im disc/holy all the way

About prayer of mending... Never actually used it yet cos I only dinged 68 yesterday, but I always enjoyed the challenge of (old-school) battleground healing without it. Should be interesting when i start using it soon

Binomate

LordChessington wrote:

About prayer of mending... Never actually used it yet cos I only dinged 68 yesterday, but I always enjoyed the challenge of (old-school) battleground healing without it. Should be interesting when i start using it soon

Should be a challenge alright, when you get targeted by three or more people and then get charged/stunlocked and die with in three seconds of entering combat. I've been healing in battlegrounds over the last few days, and honestly I don't think I've been killed by less than three people. I know with most other classes, if you get caught on your own and get rushed by three or more people you can just expect to die. But the thing about priests is that it happens every single time you cast a friggin heal. You get targeted by people. Priests need to be able to survive aginst multiple targets attacking you. Prayer of mending gives us this survivability. Prayer of mending was the only fun healing priests had. Now they've taken it away from us. It's a sick joke.

Binomate

LordChessington wrote:

About prayer of mending... Never actually used it yet cos I only dinged 68 yesterday, but I always enjoyed the challenge of (old-school) battleground healing without it. Should be interesting when i start using it soon

Should be a challenge alright, when you get targeted by three or more people and then get charged/stunlocked and die with in three seconds of entering combat. I've been healing in battlegrounds over the last few days, and honestly I don't think I've been killed by less than three people. I know with most other classes, if you get caught on your own and get rushed by three or more people you can just expect to die. But the thing about priests is that it happens every single time you cast a friggin heal. You get targeted by people. Priests need to be able to survive aginst multiple targets attacking you. Prayer of mending gives us this survivability. Prayer of mending was the only fun healing priests had. Now they've taken it away from us. It's a sick joke.

Priests will be of no use in arenas after the next patch.

Ivan

Prayer of mending was incredibly overpowered in arenas. You could just sit around spamming it and it was damn hard to kill a priest. Priests are supposed to be vulnerable to interruptions while healing in battlegrounds/arena's. Thats what your team mates are for... Remember, team pvp?

As for silent resolve, yes shadow priests are imba dps at the moment and while I would have just nerfed their damage a little instead of their threat, something was needed as it was just ludicrous the amount of damage they were putting out.

Now they have to watch their aggro, get a good threatmeter and play carefully... But honestly, which would you have prefered, a threat nerf or a dps nerf?

Stealth nerf to paladins is horrid.

Druids got butchered.
Warriors got some nice buffs.


But eh... what the hell is this about?
"Stoneclaw Totem" now has a 50% chance to stun attackers for 3 sec. when struck.

BKtje

The threath reduction talents not working for shadow priests is a real nail in the coffin for shadow priests too. Just when guilds started accepting shadow priests, because they realise the benefits, they suddenly become useless for raiding.

If you pull aggro from a protection specced tank you're either starting dps too soon or the tank isnt tanking properly. The rage gain that a prot tank in a raid will get after the patch is gonna be huge (its high enough as it is when your getting hit between 2 and 4k). Couple that with salvation and you really shouldn't pull aggro. Just minimise the use of mind blast which is your big aggro puller (iirc)? Probably more of a death to Spriests dps in 5 mans more than raids.

No one should be able to survive having three people pummeling them. Fix the cause for three people pummeling you rather than taking three people out of the game while u spam heal yourself.

Binomate

Ivan wrote:

Prayer of mending was incredibly overpowered in arenas. You could just sit around spamming it and it was damn hard to kill a priest. Priests are supposed to be vulnerable to interruptions while healing in battlegrounds/arena's. Thats what your team mates are for... Remember, team pvp?

I'm sorry, but that's bollox. Your team mates can't save you when you're dead three seconds after being intercepted by three or more people, which is what usually happened (even when you've got a lot of people between you and your enemies). Priests can't cast in battlegrounds or arenas full stop unless it's instant cast. All we ever wanted as healers was to be able to survive, and we got that with prayer of mending.

If the patch is applied in it's current state I certainly wont be seen in battlegrounds (having 0 survivability in bgs like we did before tbc is way too stressfull), I wont be grouping with warlocks or hunters (because prayer of mending will just jump to them or their pets the one time we have it every 20 seconds), and I'll consider rolling another class. A class that doesn't completely suck. The nerf to pom is just too much. It's the one fun spell that we've got in tbc. If I wanted to heal the way I did before tbc, which is what blizzard intends for us by the looks of things, I simply wouldn't have wasted the money on buying tbc.

As for silent resolve, yes shadow priests are imba dps at the moment and while I would have just nerfed their damage a little instead of their threat, something was needed as it was just ludicrous the amount of damage they were putting out.

Now they have to watch their aggro, get a good threatmeter and play carefully... But honestly, which would you have prefered, a threat nerf or a dps nerf?

I'd have honestly prefered a damage nerf. It would then mean the shadow priest could have a more constant flow of damage to make full use of VE and VT. The nerfs to shadow are only minimal compared to the pom nerf though. I agree, the shadow damage in raids was a bit ott, but again I have to feel for shadow priests, simply because barely anyone uses them in end game raiding.


It just sucks that the two most important classes for PvE (priest and warrior) have to sacrafice so much to carry out their roles in pve effectivly. Then the one time something good comes along that lets us do pvp with out aging 10 years, gets nerfed to fuck. Something that results in our healing at 70 in PvE getting nerfed too. As said before, It's a complete joke.

Binomate

B-K-DzR wrote:

If you pull aggro from a protection specced tank you're either starting dps too soon or the tank isnt tanking properly. The rage gain that a prot tank in a raid will get after the patch is gonna be huge (its high enough as it is when your getting hit between 2 and 4k). Couple that with salvation and you really shouldn't pull aggro. Just minimise the use of mind blast which is your big aggro puller (iirc)? Probably more of a death to Spriests dps in 5 mans more than raids.

Ok, maybe I'm begining to see the light here. Maybe the shadow priest nerf isn't so bad after all.

B-K-DzR wrote:

No one should be able to survive having three people pummeling them. Fix the cause for three people pummeling you rather than taking three people out of the game while u spam heal yourself.

I don't think you actually realise how often healers in battlegrounds get pummeled by three or more people. We're closer to tanks in battlegrounds than healers. We most definatly should be able to survive when we have three people pummeling us. We're not like other classes. We agro people. We're a primary target.

BKtje

I don't think you actually realise how often healers in battlegrounds get pummeled

I do actually. Our 5v5 arena team tact recently has been to generally blitz an easy to kill dps player (rogue if he isnt stealthed or lock etc) to lower their dps somewhat then destroy any healing classes they have. We all hit the same one to maximise the burst damage. Haven't found a single class that can withstand it for long unless they got coordinated heavy healing support. (team consists of mutilate rogue, frost mage, demonology lock and healing specced priest+shammy).
What this does do is leave our healers slightly open to counter and they then generally get pummeled somewhat in return. However i hang near the healers for nova's to give them some breathing space from melee or try cs any ranged casters (or have pet ready to nova ). It buys them some seconds while ur team blitz's their players. Once their players start dropping its funny how confusion/panic breaks out against a lot of opponents and any tacts they had go out the window. Has worked quite well thus far tho im sure as we progress we'll find teams who can easily counter it. (mage is my pvp alt, trying to pvp with a prot warrior is fun only until you actually try to hurt them)

BG's are all about making some sacrafices for the good of the team and have to rely/trust some of your teammates for assistance when **** hits the fan. If you're constantly getting pummeled by 3 then i have to ask what your team mates are doing a) letting it happen b)what are they doing whille you get pummeled.
Of course in pug bg's none of the above applies. If you're in a pug and you're hit by a co-ordinated three there is very little you can do unless u got ice cube or so.

Basically what i'm trying to say is, no matter who you are, three pummeling you should mean death. Least thats my take on it.

Binomate

Well as you said yourself, you can't expect any kind of standards of teamwork in pugs. In fact, you can count on people to fail.

Splinter

Priests

- The base healing percent from "Vampiric Embrace" has been reduced to 15% from 20%. In addition, this ability can no longer get critical heals.

ahh that just hurt... good to c warrior buffs though. gonna make healing easier

WTF_L2P_n00b

B-K-DzR wrote:

If you pull aggro from a protection specced tank you're either starting dps too soon or the tank isnt tanking properly. The rage gain that a prot tank in a raid will get after the patch is gonna be huge (its high enough as it is when your getting hit between 2 and 4k). Couple that with salvation and you really shouldn't pull aggro. Just minimise the use of mind blast which is your big aggro puller (iirc)? Probably more of a death to Spriests dps in 5 mans more than raids.

No one should be able to survive having three people pummeling them. Fix the cause for three people pummeling you rather than taking three people out of the game while u spam heal yourself.

Atm I can only lay down about 60% of my max dps with a prot warrior tanking (PvE Mage Fire Spec btw) this increases to about 90% with a druid tanking.

Prot warriors are a nightmare, no aggro, no HP so I agree they must be buffed.

Druids are imba, outdps'ing some rogues while tanking in bearform while great, can't be fair.

Mr. CooL ICE

Binomate wrote:

The nerf to pom is just too much. It's the one fun spell that we've got in tbc.

Umm, shadow word: death anybody? BOOOOMM!!! (headshooottttt)

Binomate wrote:

I don't think you actually realise how often healers in battlegrounds get pummeled

If you die as constantly as you make out, then theres something wrong. Priests have low survivability, yes, but if you can't make a well-timed fear to allow for a self heal and to run to safety, you are going to die much more often than any other class, whereas the death rate should be equal to most other classes. Fair enough, it has a 30 second cooldown, but if you're still getting targeted, you're placing yourself in the wrong location in relation to your teammates, or your teammates don't know how to help others in BGs.

Not expecting a medal, but while i ground (nee grinded) my way to rank 9, I came out of a lot of battlegrounds with top HK. HKs aren't indicative of necessarily being a good PVPer, but it is very possible to get the highest on the team if you stay close to the action and constantly heal all around you. Just hide in the bushes and spam heal the warrior who has charged into the horde to annihilate all around with sweeping strikes, etc.

Terra

Druids needs to be nerf'd a little but not as much as blizz are doing.

Really what are they thinking....making classes so imba for a few months then taking it all away. While it might seen nice to warriors it sucks for druids.


I wish the thought more about what there are doing before the go nerfing or improving any class.

cance

oh dear god wont somebody think of the paladins... poor little blighters.

druid nerf = good but a little OTT.
warrior buff = great.

prayer of mending 20 second cooldown is a bit much, and giving warlocks +crit in a non heavy nuking build? really doesnt make much sense and will cause alot of respecs.

and shame about the shadow priests, the threat reduction loss will be a pain, but still do-able with a good tank. Warlocks managed without a threat reduction ability prior to improvements to drainsoul/grim reach in 2.0 and soulshatter at 66.

The Clown Man

Shower of fuking tosspots. Think they would do some of their own game testing rather than listen to all the warrior whining. From zero to hero to zero. That, and treeform is crap in 5-mans because of the lack of OOC res. I specced it thinking I could be a main healer but I needed one crutch in the form of a retri pala or SP. So I was more annoying than useful.

I'm so sick of this crap anyway. Long live my Shaman.

Binomate

LordChessington wrote:

Umm, shadow word: death anybody? BOOOOMM!!! (headshooottttt)

What about shadow word death? The only thing it's good for is finishing mobs off and stealing mobs from other people when trying to farm.

LordChessington wrote:

If you die as constantly as you make out, then theres something wrong.

Yes, the class is broken. That's what's wrong. I'd consider it a good day if I come out of a battleground with 0 kills and < 5 deaths. Not that I'm expecting kills, but as a healer, surely I should be able to heal.

LordChessington wrote:

Priests have low survivability, yes, but if you can't make a well-timed fear to allow for a self heal and to run to safety, you are going to die much more often than any other class, whereas the death rate should be equal to most other classes.

To fear, they need to be in range. Assuming it doesn't get resisted by one of the three people pummeling me, and that they havn't yet got a movement slowing affect on me already, then yes I supose I might just make it out alive in the two or three seconds they're feared before they hit their pvp trinket/wotfs/or stance out of it, assuming they don't get feared in the same direction that I've got to run to get away. Even then they'll probably just charge/sprint after me again.

LordChessington wrote:

Fair enough, it has a 30 second cooldown, but if you're still getting targeted, you're placing yourself in the wrong location in relation to your teammates, or your teammates don't know how to help others in BGs.

I don't think people realise how bad the targeting is. I could be in the middle of 9 of my team mates, and I'll still be picked.

LordChessington wrote:

Not expecting a medal, but while i ground (nee grinded) my way to rank 9, I came out of a lot of battlegrounds with top HK. HKs aren't indicative of necessarily being a good PVPer, but it is very possible to get the highest on the team if you stay close to the action and constantly heal all around you. Just hide in the bushes and spam heal the warrior who has charged into the horde to annihilate all around with sweeping strikes, etc.

I ground to rank 11 with my horde rogue during a period when rogues were considered broken at end game. It was way before they got their talent review in 1.12 or what ever it was. It was nowhere near as painfull as the priest class is now. Not even close.

Cuddlesworth

Can anybody answer this, with Mass dispel targeting magic immune effects does that mean that mana-shield, paly bubble and cloack of shadows will all be the first to be removed?

Ps, why did they nerf shadow priests? It was pointless.

rainbow kirby

Yes, yes it does.

Excuse me while I cry into my dispelled bubble. Paladin PvP viability at 70 has just completely gone to hell. There really doesn't seem to be a place for the retribution tree any more... I'm specced 20/0/41 at the moment and I feel totally useless in a group. Time to go back holy methinks... the group-viable specs we have at the moment seem to fall as some combination of holy and prot unfortunately.

DRakE

Shadow word death is the one of the best damage spells to a shadow priest in an instance. It's low mana cost, does about 2k crits (with my gear) and when vampiric embrace is up with swp and vt i'm healed back about 50% of the damage i take as soon as i take it. It's a brilliant spell to use even if you're not gonna kill the mob with it.

POM Nerf: Ridiculous. 20 seconds will render it useless for me. 4-5 would have been perfect.

Disc threat reduction: also bollocks. used to be the handiest talent for the shadow priest outside of the shadow tree.. now it's purely holy

Overall, bad bad patch for priests but no need to have a go at SWD, it's AWESOME.

edit: also /clap for Blizzard re: Shadowfiend. (tho they could have added it as a normal pet with a petbar.. sometimes it sits beside me when theres a mob to hit and i cant command it to attack.. no attacks = no regen )

DRakE

also cry at the mana cost of mass dispell.. but thats neither here nor there.. been teh same since release ;D

DRakE

Binomate wrote:

Yes, the class is broken. That's what's wrong. I'd consider it a good day if I come out of a battleground with 0 kills and < 5 deaths. Not that I'm expecting kills, but as a healer, surely I should be able to heal.

Spec disc with Pain suppression and reflective shield. It's seriously the only way for a pvp healer. (HEALER NOT DPS before you scream 'shadow is d bst' at me)

BKtje

Atm I can only lay down about 60% of my max dps with a prot warrior tanking (PvE Mage Fire Spec btw) this increases to about 90% with a druid tanking.

I'm having no problems tanking Karazahn atm. Outta curoisoty how much +crit u got and +dmg? I mean my fire mage had about 400 and 30% crit and as long as i didnt open with a pyro crit i was generally ok. This thats what invis is for... its a full aggro wipe afterall. I do realise warlocks go at about 75% in my guild and some others. We found druid tanks in karazahn a major liability.
Slightly more armour, no parry and similar dodge. Just wasn't work loosing parry and shield block spam for bosses (druids we have dont *do* def, its a warrior thing apparently :rolleyes: ).

Prot warriors are a nightmare, no aggro, no HP so I agree they must be buffed.

Again i'm having no problems holding aggro with a little bit of common sense. Infact if my first shield slam doesn't miss i don't lost aggro often (tho as i said some peeps arent going 100%).
My hp is about 14k full buffed, about 13500 armour (54% ish mitigation), 16% parry 18% dodge and 18% block (important since my def still relatively low at 490). Dunno how 14k hp is no hp, especially with 54% mitigation and parry. Still the buff is welcome. Should make multi mob tanking a bit easier with a non prot spec. More rage is always nice

Binomate

DRakE wrote:

Spec disc with Pain suppression and reflective shield. It's seriously the only way for a pvp healer. (HEALER NOT DPS before you scream 'shadow is d bst' at me)

I can't respec at the minute cause I'm speced for raiding. I've completely stoped pvp all together.

Ivan

I was under the impression that shield blocks no longer prevent crits or crushing blows, so exactly why are druids a liability in Karazhan?

Unless of course you mean noob druids that dont have the ~300 def rating needed to properly tank end game bosses.

But yeah, I think the nerf to druids was pretty harsh, they nerfed the aggro and now the damage and the hp when they should have just nerfed the damage.

Warriors got some mad buffs both for tanking and otherwise when I'm still watching my friends in crappy blues and a lionheart slam targets for 1-2k crits, uninterruptible. Mortal strikes for 3k. Tanking in battle stance spamming Mortal strike just seems wrong some how.

Still, Blizzard felt that warriors needed a buff and druids needed a nerf...
mneh, I guess I'm still in shock.

rainbow kirby

*gets a mighty crack of the nerf bat*

Forbearance causes a 15% drop in damage done, both physical and spell damage.
Avenging Wrath and Divine Shield now share a cooldown.
Retri's dead... holy/prot seems to be the only way to go...

WTF_L2P_n00b

B-K-DzR wrote:

I'm having no problems tanking Karazahn atm. Outta curoisoty how much +crit u got and +dmg? I mean my fire mage had about 400 and 30% crit and as long as i didnt open with a pyro crit i was generally ok. This thats what invis is for... its a full aggro wipe afterall. I do realise warlocks go at about 75% in my guild and some others. We found druid tanks in karazahn a major liability.
Slightly more armour, no parry and similar dodge. Just wasn't work loosing parry and shield block spam for bosses (druids we have dont *do* def, its a warrior thing apparently :rolleyes: ).


Again i'm having no problems holding aggro with a little bit of common sense. Infact if my first shield slam doesn't miss i don't lost aggro often (tho as i said some peeps arent going 100%).
My hp is about 14k full buffed, about 13500 armour (54% ish mitigation), 16% parry 18% dodge and 18% block (important since my def still relatively low at 490). Dunno how 14k hp is no hp, especially with 54% mitigation and parry. Still the buff is welcome. Should make multi mob tanking a bit easier with a non prot spec. More rage is always nice

Ok I have +700dmg with no pots and over +1000dmg fully buffed with pots with a 30% crit rate and a 10/38/3 PvE Raid Fire Build.

I can pretty much unload with the Druid tanking but really have to hold back with the prot warriors.

I usually spam a few channels of AM as I have the extra threat reduction from Arcane Subtelty then scorch them up and start to unload, with the Druid I can pretty much go flat out from the start.

We are using a druid to MT Kara at the moment as he is about 50% more effective than the warriors, both for aggro generation, dmg mitigation and the huge HP he has @18k+

Invisi is no use on trash, and only really worth using 1/2 way through a boss fight, so you still really have to watch the aggro. Having to hold back dps by such a magnitude on boss attempts with a warrior tanking really puts more pressure on the healers.

Imo Prot warriors should be the most viable tanks, and personally I would like the Druids left as they are and the warriors buffed to be at least as viable.

Dubhthamlacht

druids at present make fantatsic tanks. To leave them as is and then buff Prot warriors to make them better the druid tanks would make a mockery of some boss fights. Druids will whine endlessly but in all fairness can any one say it wasn't going to happen? Druid tanking as much as I like it needed to be nerfed to bring it into line with things. Simply buffing one class enough to surpass another class is not the answer. If you think otherwise you're in dreamland.

Prot warriors tank fine especially if you bring a hunter along for misdirection. Simply get the hunter to pop misdirection at the very beginning of a boss fight and a mage can go flat out from the start.

Kevok

Eh, you'd be hard pressed to find a druid that didn't think they needed a correction in the damage department in bear. But they completely gutted the form.

Druids do not scale well in end game. That is a fact. The rare->epic progression of weapons that warriors and rogues have don't compare to druids since they scale off ap alone. This means that druid threat will not scale as well as a warrior and so these changes, coupled with the threat nerf from just after bc release means that druids will tank worse than pre bc in new raid content down the line. If my druid was still my main I'd be sick with these changes.

timmyotoole

Those changes to druids are sick. All they needed to do was lower our damage and increase our threath modifiers. Not kick us in the teeth.

Binomate

Ivan wrote:

Unless of course you mean noob druids that dont have the ~300 def rating needed to properly tank end game bosses.

This may be a silly question, but why do Druids need defence rating? As I understand, defence gives a slight percentage to block, parry, and dodge, right? Since druids only use one of these surely +defence is wasted on them? Does it give any additional stats?

Kevok

From WoWWiki.com

For an attack from an equal-level NPC, each point in defense:

* Increases the chance of being missed by an attack by .04%
* Increases the chance to dodge an attack by .04%
* Increases the chance to parry an attack by .04%
* Increases the chance to block an attack by .04%
* Decreases the chance of being affected by a critical hit by .04%

Out of the 5, druids benefit from 3. Agility is far more important for tanking than defense for a druid due to the new agi->dodge formula for druids. Defense is very important however for crushing blows reduction.

DRakE

Raiding as a 41/20 priest is still perfectly viable imo.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=dxghzIxdb0eofLxcc

Imp Innerfire, pain suppression and reflective shield for pvp, with inspration, crit,imp renew quick cast heals for pve.

BKtje

I was under the impression that shield blocks no longer prevent crits or crushing blows, so exactly why are druids a liability in Karazhan?

That's is inaccurate im afraid. At 490 (max defence) crit rate is down to 0.1% (lowest it can go), Only way to stop crushing blows from bosses is to spam shield block and build your shield block rating.

Main benefit of defence is to lower the amount of crushing blows inflicted by a boss, the other stuff is just secondary.

This may be a silly question, but why do Druids need defence rating?

To lower the amount of crushing blows as stated above. Armour mitigation helps a lot to lower the crushing blows (they don't get parry or shield block so need to mitigate it instead, hence high armour) but it's still best to try an minimise it. Defence also helps to lower crit chance against. Basically you are trying to minimise the damage spikes that you take to make healing easier.

Those changes to druids are sick. All they needed to do was lower our damage and increase our threath modifiers. Not kick us in the teeth.

According to a post over on the wow forums, druid threat to a single target is fairly stable, multiple targets is harder but more inline with a warriors. Damage has been scaled waaaaay down however. If this post is to be believed then druids are still viable tanks but multi target tanking difficulty has been increased a lot. Guess we won't know till more people try it out on the PTR.

Ok I have +700dmg with no pots and over +1000dmg fully buffed with pots with a 30% crit rate and a 10/38/3 PvE Raid Fire Build.

That is an insane amount of +dmg and +crit. You must have some set of gear. I'm not surprised you have to go at 60% (you could just swap out some +dmg gear in exchange for +stam/int tbh but thats up to you). If an entire raid had that kinda damage then it really would make a mockery of bosses.

really puts more pressure on the healers.

From my own experience in karazahn (up to curator at present), the healers arent having much problems with mana.

Woden

B-K-DzR wrote:

I'm having no problems tanking Karazahn atm. Outta curoisoty how much +crit u got and +dmg? I mean my fire mage had about 400 and 30% crit and as long as i didnt open with a pyro crit i was generally ok. This thats what invis is for... its a full aggro wipe afterall. I do realise warlocks go at about 75% in my guild and some others. We found druid tanks in karazahn a major liability.
Slightly more armour, no parry and similar dodge. Just wasn't work loosing parry and shield block spam for bosses (druids we have dont *do* def, its a warrior thing apparently :rolleyes: ).


Again i'm having no problems holding aggro with a little bit of common sense. Infact if my first shield slam doesn't miss i don't lost aggro often (tho as i said some peeps arent going 100%).
My hp is about 14k full buffed, about 13500 armour (54% ish mitigation), 16% parry 18% dodge and 18% block (important since my def still relatively low at 490). Dunno how 14k hp is no hp, especially with 54% mitigation and parry. Still the buff is welcome. Should make multi mob tanking a bit easier with a non prot spec. More rage is always nice

I don't think those dmg figures represent a well geared game in end game mage tbh i would expect them to have twice as much plus dmg. I must intervene (no pun intended). If you are finding your druids a tanking liability in karazhan tbh they aren't geared for it. Slightly more armour for me is druid with 22k my dodge is equal to the sum of your dodge and parry (would be 42% dodge fully raid buffed). When you do get hit even if you blocked every hit each hit would still hit you for more then me and i'm also crit immune and running round with 22+ k hps fully raid buffed. The only difference is crushing blows which druids can't do anything about but warriors can.

fully buffed i'm thinking, motw, fort, imp, CS, kings, titans, elixir agi, elixir defense, elixir mastery, food, agi totem.

With regards to defense a warrior only needs 490 a druid needs 415 and 3 points in survival of the fittest.

Woden

B-K-DzR wrote:

That's is inaccurate im afraid. At 490 (max defence) crit rate is down to 0.1% (lowest it can go), Only way to stop crushing blows from bosses is to spam shield block and build your shield block rating.

Main benefit of defence is to lower the amount of crushing blows inflicted by a boss, the other stuff is just secondary.

The first statement here is correct to my knowledge however once you get your defense to 350 defense you get from gear has no affect on crushing blows received (http://evilempireguild.org/guides/crushing.php). so defense does what it says it does on the tooltip. makes a mob miss, makes you dodge, makes you block, makes you parry and makes you less likely to be crit. The only that deals that pushs crushing blows off the table is shield block which is the main difference between a druid and warrior atm imo.

In response to the people who are asking why a druid needs defense the main reason is crit reduction the others are just a nice bonus. When mobs can hit for 5-6k i don't want to be crit ><. so as a tankie druid i worked my defense/resilence up to the point where i am crit immune including talents.

My own take on the changes is similar to others i'm happy to have the actual dmg numbers from bear decreased if the threat modifiers where reintroduced for those that don't know the 1.75 modifers on maul/swipe where removed a while back. Instead imo they should have left them in and reduced the dmg.
I agree that doing 600 dps with swipe in a 5 man is not particuarly balanced. However if a rogue can't outdps a druid when a druid is single target tanking that rogue sucks. Overly harsh and reactive to the pvp whines (like most nerfs these days) would be my summary of it.

kayos

B-K-DzR wrote:

Ok I have +700dmg with no pots and over +1000dmg fully buffed with pots with a 30% crit rate and a 10/38/3 PvE Raid Fire Build.

That is an insane amount of +dmg and +crit. You must have some set of gear.

Ahhhh 700dmg 30%crit is nothing for a mage.

I'm a shaman sitting on 704dmg to LB and CL, 92MP5, 28% to crit and 14% to hit...Thats using the Alchem stone (no dmg or crit but 40% to mana pots rules) in one trinket slot and the Sha'tar caster trinket in the other. Oh ya thats without my totems......I've not set foot in Kara or a heroic yet for better gear.



I'm just looking forward to my new clearcasting .

rainbow kirby

Looks like the paladin nerf have been held off for now... /sigh of relief

The comment which was made though was that our burst damage is too high... I'd love to know what they're smoking. Burst damage is the only thing that makes a retri build viable, and if they are to reduce the burst damage we can put out then we are dead in the water for PvP and we may as well all spec holy/prot and be good little raiding buffbots.
*contemplates rolling elemental shaman*

Splinter

priest one has changed...

Here are the latest patch notes for the PTR 2.0.10

Priests



The base healing percent from "Vampiric Embrace" has been reduced to 15% from 20%. In addition, this ability can no longer get critical heals.

"Silent Resolve" no longer reduces threat generated by Shadow spells.

Prayer of Mending now has a 10 second cooldown.

Mass Dispel will now target immunity effects first.

Circle of Healing mana cost reduced by 25%.

The effectiveness of "Fade:Rank 7" has been increased by approximately 25%.

The damage absorption of "Power Word: Shield" added by the caster's bonus healing has been increased to 20%.

Binomate

It seems the developers actually got wind of some of the problems that Priests face, then took a very very very small step in the right direction. These small fixes make the prayer or mending nerf less of a nerf. Two steps backwards, one step forward.

If they think fixing a 41 talent point that nobody uses well shut priests up, they've got another thing coming. The Priests holy tree needs a complete revamp, and talents like lightwell, circle or healing and holy nova need to be changed dramatically, or replaced. I like some of the ideas I've seen on the priest forums. The Disc talent tree needs to be more defined towards a certain goal, i.e. small short buffs, and the holy tree needs to be be a complete tree for healing, rather than the current state it's in where the best healing talent build is split between two trees. Currently, I don't know of any priests with the 41 point talent in holy.

Splinter

ahh the vampiric embrace change hurts though...i agree with what was said by one of the others - why change the base talent? if they wanted to change VE then why not the improved VE talent and just make it a one point increase to 25% and not 2points to 30%...

rainbow kirby

Binomate wrote:

Currently, I don't know of any priests with the 41 point talent in holy.

I know one, and my paladin outheals him massively.

DRakE

its easy for a paladin to outheal a priest

paladins will have mana for longer, 100% crits on some spells.. just their flash heal isnt as good