Southern Ireland

englander

Can't find the original thread and apologies for bringing up this old chestnut but I have evidence that Irish people do use the term 'Southern Ireland'.

I was slagged on here for even suggesting that Irish people use the term 'Southern Ireland' and it was Brit arrogance etc etc ....

In todays Indo, the usual foaming at the mouth anti Brit brigade bile that I am subjected to on a daily basis living in this 'friendly' country...

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=53&si=1779950&issue_id=15279 (requires registration)

Queen's visit inappropriate
Not alone do I believe the playing of God Save the Queen at Croke Park is an affront to the families of those who were murdered that day. But if, as anticipated, an invitation is extended to Queen Elizabeth II to pay an official State visit to this country, it should be vigorously opposed. If an official State visit to southern Ireland by Queen Elizabeth does take place, it will be the first such visit by a reigning monarch since independence in 1922.
This is highly significant.
.....blah ...blah

So there !

funk-you

Some people use it, most dont. Whats your point?

-Funk

brianthebard

Dude...petty. Very small of you. Lots of people use the term Southern Ireland. You seem like an angry person.
No offense loike.

petes

Context etc. etc.

namloc1980

englander wrote:

Can't find the original thread and apologies for bringing up this old chestnut but I have evidence that Irish people do use the term 'Southern Ireland'.

I was slagged on here for even suggesting that Irish people use the term 'Southern Ireland' and it was Brit arrogance etc etc ....

In todays Indo, the usual foaming at the mouth anti Brit brigade bile that I am subjected to on a daily basis living in this 'friendly' country...

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=53&si=1779950&issue_id=15279 (requires registration)

Queen's visit inappropriate
Not alone do I believe the playing of God Save the Queen at Croke Park is an affront to the families of those who were murdered that day. But if, as anticipated, an invitation is extended to Queen Elizabeth II to pay an official State visit to this country, it should be vigorously opposed. If an official State visit to southern Ireland by Queen Elizabeth does take place, it will be the first such visit by a reigning monarch since independence in 1922.
This is highly significant.
.....blah ...blah

So there !

Ok!! It's quite clear to me anyway, that the writer simply used the term to distinguish the Republic of Ireland from Northern Ireland. Most Irish people refer to the country as simply Ireland and to the north as Northern Ireland but to make the point clearer he used the southern Ireland term in a casual sense. I doubt when you are asked where you come from you say "I'm from the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland???".

I'm not sure what you are trying to read into this in any case.

Dyr

englander wrote:

In todays Indo, the usual foaming at the mouth anti Brit brigade bile that I am subjected to on a daily basis living in this 'friendly' country...

anti brit bile in the indo? lol

jimmycrackcorm

*ReplaceAll/Southern Ireland/Free State/
*Run

Haven't a Clue

Yeah, we aren't technically a Republic if it's only the 26 counties we have. But Southern Ireland's a stupid name as it leaves me feeling like Donegal's left out or something.

I've met loads of ones who when they hear you're from Donegal, just say "oh, you're from down south". But not Southern Ireland, no.

mike65

Englander, from one Englander to another - stop trolling! NOW!

Mike.

imeatingchips

I normally think that people who use the term are just a bit ignorant of the whole "situation".

The reason is, when I was in America people would usually assume I was English. Typical conversation would go like:

- you guys are English, right?

= no, we're Irish (no offence taken - easy to mistake Kiwi's for Aussies, canadians for americans etc.)

- North or South?

= East

= ahh okayyy [nod head slowly]

The odd time they might try to clarify the matter:

- is that, like, Britain?

= no, it's Ireland. Only a part of the north of Ireland is under British rule. Rest of it is governed by.

But since you aren't ignorant of the situation.... that theory's out the window. ah well.

ScumLord

englander wrote:

In todays Indo, the usual foaming at the mouth anti Brit brigade bile that I am subjected to on a daily basis living in this 'friendly' country...

He's obviously one of your lot. :rolleyes:

Haven't a Clue

imeatingchips wrote:

I normally think that people who use the term are just a bit ignorant of the whole "situation".

The reason is, when I was in America people would usually assume I was English. Typical conversation would go like:

- you guys are English, right?

= no, we're Irish (no offence taken - easy to mistake Kiwi's for Aussies, canadians for americans etc.)

- North or South?

= East

= ahh okayyy [nod head slowly]

The odd time they might try to clarify the matter:

- is that, like, Britain?

= no, it's Ireland. Only a part of the north of Ireland is under British rule. Rest of it is governed by.

But since you aren't ignorant of the situation.... that theory's out the window. ah well.

Ah, but if you talked giotta beag Gaeilge, you wouldn't have that problem. Instead, they'd think you were a wee bit mental and avoid you like the plague.

cornbb

Note the article said "southern Ireland" not "Southern Ireland". The capitalisation makes all the difference, the term was just used to emphasise that the author was referring to "not Northern Ireland". I've never, ever heard another Irish person use the term Southern Ireland to describe our country. Just feels weird!

luckat

Wasn't it a letter, rather than an article? Letters to the editor are the natural home of the odd and the strange.

spurious

The name of the country is Ireland.
I have never heard an Irish person call the country 'Southern Ireland'.

Conversation usually goes:
You from Ireland?
Yes.

Northern Ireland?
No, the Republic/other bit.

kraggy

Haven't a Clue wrote:

Yeah, we aren't technically a Republic if it's only the 26 counties we have.

How so?

InFront

Sinn Feiners usually don't refer to the south as the republic though, do they? I've only ever heard Mr Adams refer to "the rest of the country" or "Ireland" or "the south". Apparently this is something that the British media do as well, though with them I presume it's a lot less political, they just call this the south to differentiate from the North.

Who cares?!

brianthebard

cornbb wrote:

Note the article said "southern Ireland" not "Southern Ireland". The capitalisation makes all the difference, the term was just used to emphasise that the author was referring to "not Northern Ireland". I've never, ever heard another Irish person use the term Southern Ireland to describe our country. Just feels weird!

I'd use it to distinguish between North and South. Doesn't affect my life or world view in any way not matter how you refer to it.

Just so long as well all keep to talking about Sassanach as "them across the water":p

redzerdrog

dont worry about it engerlander all you scottish make the same mistake.

Haven't a Clue

kraggy wrote:

How so?

A Republic of Ireland is 32 counties. As, to start off with, that's what we had before the brits starting knicking counties.

That's what Pearse and those boys were fighting to get, a republic. All 32 counties. The fact that we didn't get a Republic when we signed the treaty was the main argument behind the Anti-Treaty ones during the Civil War.

Mossy Monk

englander wrote:

Can't find the original thread and apologies for bringing up this old chestnut but I have evidence that Irish people do use the term 'Southern Ireland'.

I was slagged on here for even suggesting that Irish people use the term 'Southern Ireland' and it was Brit arrogance etc etc ....

In todays Indo, the usual foaming at the mouth anti Brit brigade bile that I am subjected to on a daily basis living in this 'friendly' country...

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=53&si=1779950&issue_id=15279 (requires registration)

Queen's visit inappropriate
Not alone do I believe the playing of God Save the Queen at Croke Park is an affront to the families of those who were murdered that day. But if, as anticipated, an invitation is extended to Queen Elizabeth II to pay an official State visit to this country, it should be vigorously opposed. If an official State visit to southern Ireland by Queen Elizabeth does take place, it will be the first such visit by a reigning monarch since independence in 1922.
This is highly significant.
.....blah ...blah

So there !

stupid pathetic attempt at trolling

Pherekydes

I'll bet the people from Muff don't call it Southern Ireland.

brianthebard

Haven't a Clue wrote:

A Republic of Ireland is 32 counties. As, to start off with, that's what we had before the brits starting knicking counties.

That's what Pearse and those boys were fighting to get, a republic. All 32 counties. The fact that we didn't get a Republic when we signed the treaty was the main argument behind the Anti-Treaty ones during the Civil War.

Eh, we didn't even have counties until "The Brits" introduced the idea. I love it when republicans start rewriting history.

Haven't a Clue

brianthebard wrote:

Eh, we didn't even have counties until "The Brits" introduced the idea. I love it when republicans start rewriting history.

Ok, they took some Irish terroritory that we never got back. Since then, these territories have developed into counties. So now we can have an accurate amount of what they took off us, which stands at the moment at 6 counties.

Happy?

kraggy

Haven't a Clue wrote:

A Republic of Ireland is 32 counties

No it's not.

The Republic of Ireland consists of the 26 counties and them alone.

gimmick

Southern Ireland is Cork, Waterford, Kerry. Northern Ireland is a state currently under British rule.

People who refer to the 26 countries as Southern Ireland really irk me. It is like they have no sense of identity other than differentiating their country from another state. Call centre workers are especially culpable for this.

Hagar

kraggy wrote:

No it's not.

The Republic of Ireland consists of the 26 counties and them alone.

Now there's a tricky one for you.

The original Irish Consitution has always stated that the country consisted of the whole island.

Article 2

The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.

Article 3

Pending the re-integration of the national territory, and without prejudice to the right of the parliament and government established by this constitution to exercise jurisdiction over the whole territory, the laws enacted by the parliament shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws of Saorstat Éireann[2] and the like extra-territorial effect.

An amendment was passed into law as part of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 whereby the claim to a 32 county Republic was dropped as part of a quid-pro-quo deal on a new power sharing structure in Northen Ireland. Nine years later the Unionists still haven't fulfilled their part of the Agreement. If they continue to refuse to honour their part of the Agreement then I can see no legal reason why the Good Friday Agreement should not be nullified and therefore by default we will revert to a nominal 32 county Republic.

So I think it's fair comment that until they do step up to the mark and keep their side of the deal we reserve the right to withdraw our offer.


/edited for typos

Haven't a Clue

So before the Good Friday Agreement, to call the 26 counties a Republic wsa nonsense? But after, it's grand? But it might change back if the Unionists don't get their heads out of their asses soon?

Hagar

Yeah, that's about it.

Kaiser_Sma

gimmick wrote:

Southern Ireland is Cork, Waterford, Kerry. Northern Ireland is a state currently under British rule.

People who refer to the 26 countries as Southern Ireland really irk me. It is like they have no sense of identity other than differentiating their country from another state. Call centre workers are especially culpable for this.

Personally it bothers me when people deliberately refer to northern ireland as the '6 counties' purely because a term combining 'northern' and 'ireland' isn't politically correct enough for them.

I thought John A Costello proclaimed it to be a republic though?

Anyways, I would never refer to Ireland as Southern Ireland. I mean, how many Americans refer to their country as Northern America? Or to Canada as Northern America (even though this is a bit far off.. ya get my point). If talking to a friend up the North I would refer to it as "down South".

Terry

I live in Souther Ireland.
Happy now, Englander?

Flukey

Like Imeatingchips, if someone asks me if I am from the north or the south, I tell them that I am from the east. Of course the funny thing about this is the following facts. Geographically:

• The most northerly part of the country is in "The South".
• The most easterly part of the country is in "The North".
• The most westerly part of the country is in the south.
• Only the most southerly part of the county is in the south.

biko

Free State ftw

Haven't a Clue

Kaiser_Sma wrote:

Personally it bothers me when people deliberately refer to northern ireland as the '6 counties' purely because a term combining 'northern' and 'ireland' isn't politically correct enough for them.

Loads of foreigners think Donegal's in the North. So they can keep saying 6 counties for all I care.

PeakOutput

our country is called the Republic of Ireland which does not include the 6 counties / northern Ireland the island which our country is on is called ireland this does include those 6 counties...........

we can claim what we want it dosnt make it true

englander you are a troll but thats fine in a few years(in my lifetime anyway) we will be able to call the whole island Ireland or Republic of Ireland or whatever we want to call it and this argument will not matter

JaysusMacfeck

Not this again!

I think some Brits have the impression that Ireland is split evenly across the middle, not really understanding the difference between the two, and not aware that the "south" is a sovereign EU state. Am I right?

You also have a large amount of people you live in Ulster who are in the Republic and certainly not "Southern Ireland".

I think the general ignorance of British people about Ireland is what annoys some Paddys.

county

PeakOutput wrote:

our country is called the Republic of Ireland which does not include the 6 counties / northern Ireland the island which our country is on is called ireland this does include those 6 counties...........

we can claim what we want it dosnt make it true

englander you are a troll but thats fine in a few years(in my lifetime anyway) we will be able to call the whole island Ireland or Republic of Ireland or whatever we want to call it and this argument will not matter

lol:rolleyes:

Haven't a Clue

PeakOutput wrote:

our country is called the Republic of Ireland which does not include the 6 counties / northern Ireland the island which our country is on is called ireland this does include those 6 counties...........

we can claim what we want it dosnt make it true

englander you are a troll but thats fine in a few years(in my lifetime anyway) we will be able to call the whole island Ireland or Republic of Ireland or whatever we want to call it and this argument will not matter

As slightly daft as that sounds, I'd have to ask why not?

If the Israelis can get kicked out of the Gaza Strip, why can't we get the north back and have a proper republic?

Black Swan

Southern Ireland? Counties Cork and Kerry?

TU154

PeakOutput wrote:

our country is called the Republic of Ireland which does not include the 6 counties / northern Ireland the island which our country is on is called ireland this does include those 6 counties...........

we can claim what we want it dosnt make it true

englander you are a troll but thats fine in a few years(in my lifetime anyway) we will be able to call the whole island Ireland or Republic of Ireland or whatever we want to call it and this argument will not matter

I hope not. The current tax burden is enough paying for the 26 counties. The huge expenditure on Norn Iron by the UK government in maintaining artificial levels of employment will not be matched by the Irish government. And personally I don't want to fund it.
Norn Iron is pretty much it's own entity now. Even most nationalists don't feel like they want to belong to a 32 county Ireland. An autonomous state would be a better idea. Also, you think Bertie and co could take on the issues of what's now referred to as the "most bigoted place on earth?" Where a french teaching assistant gets warned out of an area by the police because the local bigots have it in for her because she's "not from around"?

On a funnier note, when I were a lad up in college "in the north", "free staters" were also referred to as "mexicans" as we were from south of the border. Hehehe.
Anyway it's not important in the grand scheme of things. Except in peoples minds, and it's certainly not worth getting worked up over.
I had to convince some american colleagues recently that (the Republic of) Ireland was an independant sovereign (sp) state with no dependance on the UK whatsoever. But that's another matter.

5starpool

Haven't a Clue wrote:

As slightly daft as that sounds, I'd have to ask why not?

If the Israelis can get kicked out of the Gaza Strip, why can't we get the north back and have a proper republic?

If there was a referendum there would be at least a very significant minority voting against it, including myself. As mentioned above, the tax burden if for no other reason, is enough.

1huge1

TU154 wrote:

I hope not. The current tax burden is enough paying for the 26 counties. The huge expenditure on Norn Iron by the UK government in maintaining artificial levels of employment will not be matched by the Irish government. And personally I don't want to fund it.
Norn Iron is pretty much it's own entity now. Even most nationalists don't feel like they want to belong to a 32 county Ireland. An autonomous state would be a better idea. Also, you think Bertie and co could take on the issues of what's now referred to as the "most bigoted place on earth?" Where a french teaching assistant gets warned out of an area by the police because the local bigots have it in for her because she's "not from around"?

On a funnier note, when I were a lad up in college "in the north", "free staters" were also referred to as "mexicans" as we were from south of the border. Hehehe.
Anyway it's not important in the grand scheme of things. Except in peoples minds, and it's certainly not worth getting worked up over.
I had to convince some american colleagues recently that (the Republic of) Ireland was an independant sovereign (sp) state with no dependance on the UK whatsoever. But that's another matter.

I agree completly its comes to a place were most people in the north are happy with the way things are and most people here just don't care

Haven't a Clue

5starpool wrote:

If there was a referendum there would be at least a very significant minority voting against it, including myself. As mentioned above, the tax burden if for no other reason, is enough.

Fair enough. By the way, I'm only throwing the point out there. Last thing I'd want is to be stuck in the same nation as what yer man described as 'the most bigotted nation on earth'.

brianthebard

Haven't a Clue wrote:

As slightly daft as that sounds, I'd have to ask why not?

If the Israelis can get kicked out of the Gaza Strip, why can't we get the north back and have a proper republic?

What is this bull about being a proper republic? Where does it say in the dictionary that a republic must consist of 32 counties?? FFs

Civilian_Target

Southern Ireland? They call that Munster, right? They have a really awful rugby team, roysh?

(Gawd, these free-staters seem to have got stupider by the day since they left the commonwealth... )

Haven't a Clue

brianthebard wrote:

What is this bull about being a proper republic? Where does it say in the dictionary that a republic must consist of 32 counties?? FFs

Look at the last page. It's explained there. Until the Good Friday Agreement, 26 counties was not a Republic.

brianthebard

First off your wording is atrocious. France is "A republic". So in mere technical terms 26 counties can be "a republic". Secondly your reference to articles two and three only serves to show Dev's attempts to overstep his boundaries by laying claim to the whole Island and its islands and territorial seas. There is no way that article three could have been put into effect without seriously breaching legal fighey wigheyness in Ireland and England. Finally these articles were written (to the best of my knowledge) in the 1937 constitution, when Ireland was a Free State.

A vague constitutional attempt to claim the six counties as being part of the Free State is up there with the idea that a woman's place is in the home, that there should be dances at the crossroads and that Ireland could be economically self-sufficent. Untenable, each and every one.

therecklessone

It appears a number of people need to reacquaint themselves with Bunreact na hEireann.

Article 4:

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland Act 1948 states:

It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland.

Note the use of the word description. To change the name of the state would require a constitutional amendment, which can only be brought about by referendum.

The original articles 2 and 3 provided a balance between the aspirational claim to the territory and the pragmatic acknowledgment of jurisdiction. Even if they were reinstated, no material change to the name or description of the state would occur.

InFront

Very interesting, I thought there had been a referendum along with the general election that followed the Act but apparently not. So the popular name (as opposed to the description) is not the constitutional one, so still a 'Republic all but in name' as it was in 1937?
Very strange.

SimpleSam06

brianthebard wrote:

Just so long as well all keep to talking about Sassanach as "them across the water":p

I always wondered why the English are called the "sassanach" or whatever, when its cleary spelled "sacsanaigh", saxons, in most Irish texts. Not jumping on you or anything Brian, I've asked Irish teachers on it before too, never got a satisfactory answer.