anyone else feel out of their dept?

interpolian

Wasnt expecting the leaving to be soooo hard and time consuming, anyone else feeling like there up the stream without a paddle.
theres so much to do and i dont have a subject that i shine in and dont need to do as much study for :mad: im doing 3 ordinary and 4 highers but french and business are so hard but i cant afford to drop because i need a good few points for the course i want, im sure im one of thousands felling like this but
everyone around me seems so relaxed but im stressing bad right now
if anyone has any tips on effective study methods they'd be greatly appreciated!

geminilady

Maybe you could get grinds or something? or arrange help from one of ur friends. I seem to work better when im not stressed. Perhaps if you wrote down all your worries or something. I read that if you do that its suppose to help.

cson

Put thingsin perspective here for a minute, at this stage you should know your strengths and weaknesses and what your capable of attaining in the LC. Your CAO/whatever should reflect this.

You say you need high-ish points but you have to understand your limitations, work around them and come up with some sort of plan that allows you to maximise your points. In other words, concentrate on what you can do well in, even narrow it down to areas in subjects. Its about playing to your strengths, not improving your weaknesses at this stage.

And try to relax, play sport do whatever it is that you enjoy! There is time for it

Steve01

interpolian wrote:

Wasnt expecting the leaving to be soooo hard and time consuming

What exactly were you expecting?
Honestly I dont think its as bad as its cracked up to be. Put some consistent study in throughout the year and the workload is well managable. I'm doing 6 honours and 1 pass and luckily for the most part I enjoy the subjects.
Different study methods come into play for different subjects.
For instance I think the best way to do maths is to do question after question in the exam papers. Usually what I do is take a particular question at a time, like all the Paper 1 Q7s and do them out until I understand whats involved. Break your subjects down into managable chunks like that and you'll do fine.
For subjects which rely heavily on theory I recommend writing out an answer to a question and then looking back over it and seeing where you went wrong. Generally when you see what you've done wrong you won't make the same mistake twice.

Good luck with it.

interpolian

well obviously i knew it would be hard, but i brezzed through the junior cert and wasnt expecting it to be as detailed as many answers have to be, thanks alot for the advise on it. im gonna put it into practice because what im doing now just isnt working

JC 2K3

@OP

For you, how much time is "soooo time consuming"?
How many points do you actually need?
What subjects are you doing?
What does "studying" involve for you? I'd say you need a new method. You mention Business being hard. Now I don't do Business but from the impression I get from friends doing it it seems very easy and just involves learning stuff off. You probably just need to learn to make notes more effectively. Dunno how to study languages effectively myself, so can't help you with French I'm afraid.

Haven't a Clue

Woah, woah, woah. You reckon business is hard? And French?

Business is mostly common sense, you just have to learn a few laws, roles of certain people etc along the way.

I find french a doddle too and after 5 years of no work, and I mean nothing, I'm still expected to get a C by the teacher. Maybe even a B.

md99

Really what were you expecting?

Business can be difficult in that the course is very long... You could know one section perfectly and it may not even come up.. Though if you focus on certain sections it can be very beneficial! The three business subjects are, I must say, the three most easily predictable for what will come up...

Just try your best in French, it's the kind of subject some will cruise and others will find difficult to no end, lots of practice on listening and reading comp's (which you can easily get the solutions to) is advisable, they will be tough at first though.

Burning Eclipse

Haven't a Clue wrote:

Woah, woah, woah. You reckon business is hard? And French?

Business is mostly common sense, you just have to learn a few laws, roles of certain people etc along the way.

I find french a doddle too and after 5 years of no work, and I mean nothing, I'm still expected to get a C by the teacher. Maybe even a B.

Obviously the OP is worried about his/her LC and this is the response you come up with. I don't see how it helps at all.

I'd echo what cson said, and definately find time for your hobbies as not having fun will be a huge mental drain when studying. Good luck

Mushy

I only find myself out of my depth at Maths, mainly cos I can never remember stuff. I'm just gonna have to put in extra work at it anyway.

As for everything else, no point in stressing out too much. Getting plenty of work done, training three times a week. Maybe the Mocks might help people in showing what they need to do. All the harsh reality has been settling in now, but only 4 months and thats it, plenty of time.

md99

I think the pres/mocks are a fantastic motivator, both before (for those already working hard - they can focus on getting at least a certain grade, etc) and after (for those who haven't done a tap)

interpolian

Thanks alot, your advice is quite useful! good to see not everyone is letting the leaving take over their life like myself :eek: mocks next week so we'll see how they go. but suppose these exams arent the end of the world

md99

interpolian wrote:

well obviously i knew it would be hard, but i brezzed through the junior cert and wasnt expecting it to be as detailed as many answers have to be

Everyone goes through this at some stage... True, there is no comparison between the two exams. Many get A's in HL subjects for the JC and end up doing OL in the Leaving (like myself in maths).

The amount of detail and accuracy they look for, for one thing, is a major difference, also the questions are often asked differently than in the JC, for ex. different wording, and the size of the courses in general...

mateo

interpolian wrote:

Wasnt expecting the leaving to be soooo hard and time consuming, anyone else feeling like there up the stream without a paddle.
theres so much to do and i dont have a subject that i shine in and dont need to do as much study for :mad: im doing 3 ordinary and 4 highers but french and business are so hard but i cant afford to drop because i need a good few points for the course i want, im sure im one of thousands felling like this but
everyone around me seems so relaxed but im stressing bad right now
if anyone has any tips on effective study methods they'd be greatly appreciated!

I'm exactly the same. I feel like I'll never get anything done at this stage. I spend ages studying something only to discover it's a tiny part of what I need to study. :mad: I hate this so much. I get so frustrated. I am constantly unhappy with this piece of s*#t education system. :mad:

These f#*king mocks aren't helping either. How the hell are we meant to study everything for them?? URGH!

md99

mateo wrote:

I'm exactly the same. I feel like I'll never get anything done at this stage. I spend ages studying something only to discover it's a tiny part of what I need to study. :mad: I hate this so much. I get so frustrated. I am constantly unhappy with this piece of s*#t education system. :mad:

These f#*king mocks aren't helping either. How the hell are we meant to study everything for them?? URGH!

You're not meant to study everything for them... At least in most subjects.

What you need to do, if you feel you'll never get everything covered, is to get a great knowledge of those topics which come up the most frequently...

Very few students cover EVERYTHING in great detail.

JC 2K3

mateo wrote:

I'm exactly the same. I feel like I'll never get anything done at this stage. I spend ages studying something only to discover it's a tiny part of what I need to study. :mad: I hate this so much. I get so frustrated. I am constantly unhappy with this piece of s*#t education system. :mad:

These f#*king mocks aren't helping either. How the hell are we meant to study everything for them?? URGH!

You're disorganised and you have a bad attitude. Quit moaning. If you think the mocks aren't going to help then don't bother studying for them. However, I recommend you do as they serve as a practice in exam technique for the LC and this experience could be invaluable to you come June. And let's face it, if you had no mocks you wouldn't be studying right now would you? Better to realise you've nothing done now than in June.

Haven't a Clue

The time you start feeling sorry for yourself is the time yer bollixed. The mocks only provide a guide as to where you stand at this present moment. Like, you still have just under 4 months to study for the big one.

melekalikimaka

interpolian wrote:

anyone else feel out of their dept?

emmm english would be one to work on....i believe its spelt depth

ZorbaTehZ

emmm english would be one to work on....i believe its spelt depth

Such spelling skillz - omg.
You should be a teacher !

yurmothrintites

I don't feel alot of pressure, the way I think about the LC is that stressing gets you nowhere so what's the point. When I feel out of my depth I get a cup of tea and open a textbook and study for a while. It calms my nerves. If I do that everytime I get stressed I should be well on my way to passing the exams.

I know, I'm such an old woman with the cup of tea!:)

Corruptedmorals

I don't know yet- I'll see when I get my results. I need 510, so if I get I dunno, 430 or lower, I'll be very annoyed. I'm not stressing, not until I know how much more to do anyway..

Riveta

I feel absolutly out of my depth, i'm doing only pass maths, and everything is just piling up on top of me, i have mocks on monday morning. I'm screwed, history i'm goign to fail, chemistry i'm going to fail, irish i'm going to fail. I only need 365 for nursing, but i'm starting to feel i cant' get there you know? it's now 12.30 and i've done no study all day. I just can't motivate myself at all. Does organisng notes count?

Famous_Séamus

Riveta wrote:

Does organisng notes count?

The only thing that counts is when you learn something. So...no.

md99

yep... only way you're gonna get nursing is to give up your free time and actually learn..

JC 2K3

Riveta wrote:

I feel absolutly out of my depth, i'm doing only pass maths, and everything is just piling up on top of me, i have mocks on monday morning. I'm screwed, history i'm goign to fail, chemistry i'm going to fail, irish i'm going to fail.

Change your attitude.

You've been learning these subjects in school for one and a half years and you don't think you can manage over 40% in a test on any of them? Come on... All you have to do is focus a bit more.

Riveta wrote:

I only need 365 for nursing, but i'm starting to feel i cant' get there you know?

365 really isn't that much and is very attainable. Have you set goals for your subjects, ie. do you know what grade you want in each subject? Don't give up, just organise yourself and focus more.

Riveta wrote:

it's now 12.30 and i've done no study all day. I just can't motivate myself at all. Does organisng notes count?

Organising notes only counts if you're going to actually study them the next day. I've taken whole weekends off studying to organise myself before and it is necessary, but it's not studying.

Without being harsh, I really think you should ask yourself, "Am I out of my depth or am I just lazy?"

mateo

JC 2K3 wrote:

You're disorganised and you have a bad attitude. Quit moaning. If you think the mocks aren't going to help then don't bother studying for them. However, I recommend you do as they serve as a practice in exam technique for the LC and this experience could be invaluable to you come June. And let's face it, if you had no mocks you wouldn't be studying right now would you? Better to realise you've nothing done now than in June.

I can't help the attitude though. There's just far too much to learn. I don't understand why. I hate this education system. I really do. I hope it gets changed one day!

Anyway, enough of my ranting. No need to reply. Just ignore me. I'm a mess

md99

mateo wrote:

I can't help the attitude though. There's just far too much to learn. I don't understand why. I hate this education system. I really do. I hope it gets changed one day!

Anyway, enough of my ranting. No need to reply. Just ignore me. I'm a mess

lol many students go through what you're going through, but face it you'd have some problem with whatever system it was... no system is flawless. i think the LC is ridiculously biased towards the maths/science subjects (going by grade distribution) but I've got to get over it.... and that ain't easy either

seriously though there's never 'far too much', I mean the key to the LC is that while the course may be ridiculously big... you can often pull a 'big' grade by only learning very selective amounts well..

JC 2K3

mateo wrote:

I can't help the attitude though. There's just far too much to learn. I don't understand why. I hate this education system. I really do. I hope it gets changed one day!

Changed to what?

There's so much to learn because is a way to seperate people of different ability/work ethic.

What do you want? Less to learn? Easier tests? Sure then everyone would get As and the points system would be messed up.

It works as it is IMO.

md99 wrote:

i think the LC is ridiculously biased towards the maths/science subjects (going by grade distribution)

How do you mean biased? There's the same amount of points for maths or a science as anything else....

Naikon

JC 2K3 wrote:

How do you mean biased? There's the same amount of points for maths or a science as anything else....

It would be handy if subjects were weighted according to course choice.
More people I know pick Geography than Science subjects because they believe they will get a higher mark in them,whereas Science subjects would be more usefull if they are going on to do Science etc.

JC 2K3

^Indeed, but that's not the issue being discussed...

md99

JC 2K3 wrote:

How do you mean biased? There's the same amount of points for maths or a science as anything else....

There may be the same points, but with the sciences/maths subjects it's a hell of a lot easier to get them than with the business/etc subjects.....

Look at the grade distribution stats... for example, chemistry and physics are extremely high compared to the likes of Home Ec and Art..

JC 2K3

md99 wrote:

There may be the same points, but with the sciences/maths subjects it's a hell of a lot easier to get them than with the business/etc subjects.....

Look at the grade distribution stats... for example, chemistry and physics are extremely high compared to the likes of Home Ec and Art..

I don't understand this. There's thousands failing honours or taking pass maths right now. And the reason Chemistry and Physics are higher is probably to do with the fact that far less people do them. No bias. Business, for example, has a reputation for being ridiculously easy. Compare that to, say, Physics, which is said to be very hard by many who do it.

PurpleFistMixer

I think they may be taking their statistics from the percentage of As etc. rates... wherein subjects such as Russian have 68% or so, and Art has.. 1%? Something like that.

JC 2K3

^Indeed, but you have to look at the amount of students taking the subjects in question. People taking science subjects do so generally because they interest them and they know they can do well, students who wasnt to pick easy subjects/without a clue what subjects to pick tend to pick Business etc. More people + possibility of less interest in the subject by those who take it = lower percentage of As.

md99

JC 2K3 wrote:

^Indeed, but you have to look at the amount of students taking the subjects in question. People taking science subjects do so generally because they interest them and they know they can do well, students who wasnt to pick easy subjects/without a clue what subjects to pick tend to pick Business etc. More people + possibility of less interest in the subject by those who take it = lower percentage of As.

In THEORY, yes, but....

Have you examined the statistics closely? As far as I know, the statistics are set in such a way for a reason.. can't verify this, but I'm told that as the govt. wishes to promote jobs in the science sector, it allows more high grades in it be relased than many other jobs...

Aside from Accounting, the business subjects are far lower than the science subjects for high grades..

Donald-Duck

md99 wrote:

In THEORY, yes, but....

Have you examined the statistics closely? As far as I know, the statistics are set in such a way for a reason.. can't verify this, but I'm told that as the govt. wishes to promote jobs in the science sector, it allows more high grades in it be relased than many other jobs...

Aside from Accounting, the business subjects are far lower than the science subjects for high grades..

Business has a reputation for being taken by people who want easy marks, and hence that id displayed in the results. I'm pretty sure about 10times as much people do business as Physics or Chemistry every year. If a minority do a subject, the A rate will often be higher because its more likely to be taken by people who have an interest in it

JC 2K3

md99 wrote:

In THEORY, yes, but....

Have you examined the statistics closely? As far as I know, the statistics are set in such a way for a reason.. can't verify this, but I'm told that as the govt. wishes to promote jobs in the science sector, it allows more high grades in it be relased than many other jobs...

Aside from Accounting, the business subjects are far lower than the science subjects for high grades..

lol, conspiriacy theories eh?

The fact Accounting is an exception shows the lack of bias and backs up my theory. Accounting isn't a subject someone not able to do well in is going to take.

And yes, the government is pushing to get more people to work in the science sector, but it doesn't mean the course is any easier.

You can talk about only a certain amount of A grades being released for each subect etc. which, what I think you mean by it, is that a couple of students getting high Bs get bumped up to As. But the fact still remains that if you work hard you'll get your A, regardless of subject. And as mentined before, it's considerably easier to earn an A in Business than a science subject.

md99

JC 2K3 wrote:

But the fact still remains that if you work hard you'll get your A, regardless of subject. And as mentined before, it's considerably easier to earn an A in Business than a science subject.

I hope you're right... .*crosses fingers*
I'm sure I'll have an A knowledge of Home Ec and Pass Irish, but will that reflect my results I wonder??

Bearing in mind the A1 rate in O/L Irish is less than 1%!!!!! :mad: but ce n'est pa la mort du petit cheval, i spose

enda1

I think people do science subjects by choice and business subjects by default. In my school there was little subject choice: two languages, no economics, engineering, woodwork, home economics etc. etc. The.. stupid people to be honest, all did business (im not saying the people who did business were all stupid ). Some did history or geography too. Then biology usually. Point being none f them did physics, chemistry or higher maths.

Look at a subject like applied maths. No one in their right mind will do a subject like that unless they excel in maths and the results prove that. If every student in the country was forced to do every subject at the higher level, id say the worst average result , just looking at the sciences, businesses, geog and history, would be in applied maths, followed closely by maths and then physics and chemistry. Still though if id had to do business i'd have found it harder that physics applied maths or maths. Then again everyone is different.

AdMMM

And yes, the government is pushing to get more people to work in the science sector, but it doesn't mean the course is any easier.

They realised that an interest in Science is better to be formed sooner rather than later. As a result, they made the JC Science course much more accessible to students in an attempt to stimulate an interest in it and therefore increase the uptake of the sciences for the senior cycle. Also, don't use the word "easier", courses are never made easier, instead they are made more "accessible" and "user-friendly".

But the fact still remains that if you work hard you'll get your A, regardless of subject. And as mentined before, it's considerably easier to earn an A in Business than a science subject.

It depends on whether or not you have an aptitude for that subject. Different people excel at different subjects/professions. For example, no matter how hard I worked, I wouldn't be able to get an A in art. Why? Because even stick figures are beyond my feeble and prehistoric artistic skills! On that note, there are those who can produce picture-esque landscapes with their eyes closed. Why? Because they have an aptitude for drawing. Just because "makey uppey" subjects like Business come naturally to you, it doesn't mean it will come naturally to others and therefore it isn't "considerably easier to earn an A in Business than a science subject."

JC 2K3

|.Murderer.| wrote:

Also, don't use the word "easier", courses are never made easier, instead they are made more "accessible" and "user-friendly".

pfft, that's a load of bollocks. A subject being less accessible or user friendly is what makes it hard.

|.Murderer.| wrote:

It depends on whether or not you have an aptitude for that subject. Different people excel at different subjects/professions. For example, no matter how hard I worked, I wouldn't be able to get an A in art. Why? Because even stick figures are beyond my feeble and prehistoric artistic skills! On that note, there are those who can produce picture-esque landscapes with their eyes closed. Why? Because they have an aptitude for drawing. Just because "makey uppey" subjects like Business come naturally to you, it doesn't mean it will come naturally to others and therefore it isn't "considerably easier to earn an A in Business than a science subject."

People have different aptitudes for different things, but academically all that matters is logic, creativity or rote-learning. Anyone can rote learn but not everyone is logical or creative. Business is heavily based on rote learning and not hard to understand, therefore it is generally easier than other subjects.

mateo

|.Murderer.| wrote:

They realised that an interest in Science is better to be formed sooner rather than later. As a result, they made the JC Science course much more accessible to students in an attempt to stimulate an interest in it and therefore increase the uptake of the sciences for the senior cycle. Also, don't use the word "easier", courses are never made easier, instead they are made more "accessible" and "user-friendly".



It depends on whether or not you have an aptitude for that subject. Different people excel at different subjects/professions. For example, no matter how hard I worked, I wouldn't be able to get an A in art. Why? Because even stick figures are beyond my feeble and prehistoric artistic skills! On that note, there are those who can produce picture-esque landscapes with their eyes closed. Why? Because they have an aptitude for drawing. Just because "makey uppey" subjects like Business come naturally to you, it doesn't mean it will come naturally to others and therefore it isn't "considerably easier to earn an A in Business than a science subject."

True, which makes me so angry that I have to do Maths. I'm not good at it, why should I have to do it? :mad:

JC 2K3

mateo wrote:

True, which makes me so angry that I have to do Maths. I'm not good at it, why should I have to do it? :mad:

A D3 in pass Maths should hardly be hard to attain. Why the anger?

mateo

JC 2K3 wrote:

A D3 in pass Maths should hardly be hard to attain. Why the anger?

Well it is hard to attain!

JC 2K3

I can't see how, after 14 years of learning maths, that it could be really that difficult.

But in any case, basic maths is a necessary life skill and it's essential that it stays a compulsory LC subject.

Look at it this way, if you weren't forced to do it you might have no aptitude for maths at all, which could severely hinder you in later life

PurpleFistMixer

Some people are just not good at maths. You've said it yourself, "not everyone is logical"!

JC 2K3

I know, which is why many do pass maths. But a D3 in pass maths is not asking much tbh.

AdMMM

Anyone can rote learn but not everyone is logical or creative. Business is heavily based on rote learning and not hard to understand, therefore it is generally easier than other subjects.

Once again, that's your prerogative. You are speaking from your experience of finding it easy to understand. Regarding your claim that anyone can rote learn, I have to disagree - some people could read something and absorb it all straight away while others may experience great difficulty in trying to learn a plethora of definitions. The point I'm trying to make, and the one you're being very ignorant of, is that the reason you find Business easy to understand is because you're able to learn what is required. Other's aren't able to do that and if someone finds it difficult to learn something then you can safely say that it's hard to understand (for them).

pfft, that's a load of bollocks. A subject being less accessible or user friendly is what makes it hard.

You must have misunderstood me. I was merely trying to say that the DES will never admit to making a course easier, but you'll find that every syllabus revision is geared towards making the affected course more accessible to the students.

A D3 in pass Maths should hardly be hard to attain. Why the anger?

Once again, that's merely your prerogative. You said it yourself, all that matters academically is logic, creativity and the ability to aborb information. You also said that not everyone is logically minded so you pretty much answered your own question unless of course you somehow think that being creative will help you with Maths...

Look at it this way, if you weren't forced to do it you might have no aptitude for maths at all, which could severely hinder you in later life

You don't develop an aptitude for a certain subject, it either comes naturally to you, or it doesn't.

bikeman1

I think that it is fair to say that getting at least a D3 in Ordinary Maths is achievable if you put in any sort of effort. If you just sit there and say Im not good at maths and say im never going to understand it. Then you are on the right track to failing.

Ordinary level subjects are designed for people who have a difficulty with a subject, and the examiner wants to give you marks, so a D3 is well within anyones reach if they put a bit of effort in. Also any less Maths skills than a D3 in Ordinary is very very basic and you will need the skills in life.

JC 2K3

|.Murderer.| wrote:

Once again, that's your prerogative. You are speaking from your experience of finding it easy to understand. Regarding your claim that anyone can rote learn, I have to disagree - some people could read something and absorb it all straight away while others may experience great difficulty in trying to learn a plethora of definitions. The point I'm trying to make, and the one you're being very ignorant of, is that the reason you find Business easy to understand is because you're able to learn what is required. Other's aren't able to do that and if someone finds it difficult to learn something then you can safely say that it's hard to understand (for them).

I hate rote learning, yet I sit down and do it. Most who find it "hard" simply don't bother putting the time in

And I don't even do business, yet anyone I ask about it says it's very easy, yet most I ask about physics find it difficult.

My theory, which I'm sure many will agree with me on: Ability to rote learn is a more prevalent charaterisitic in students than ability to think logically or creatively, hence most students finding subjects like Business easier than Physics.

|.Murderer.| wrote:

Once again, that's merely your prerogative. You said it yourself, all that matters academically is logic, creativity and the ability to aborb information. You also said that not everyone is logically minded so you pretty much answered your own question unless of course you somehow think that being creative will help you with Maths...

Firstly, being creative is very important in maths. Maybe not LC maths, but concepts like differentiation or the MacLaurin Series are some of the most creative feats of the human imagination I've ever come across.

Secondly, ok, some people find maths hard, but a D3 in pass maths in order to be accepted to college is hardly much to ask. Unless the person just wasn't motivated and refused to apply themselves or had a bad learning disability it simply isn't too hard to attain.

|.Murderer.| wrote:

You don't develop an aptitude for a certain subject, it either comes naturally to you, or it doesn't.

Not true. That's a defeatist attitude which is the reason why people failing and doing ordinary level Maths has increased steadily over the last decade or so. Just because a subject might come to a student very quickly doesn't mean others can't become as good with a little more work. I used to be crap at LC history, getting Ds in tests last year. However, having figured out how to study it more effectively by making better notes and write essays better by studying the marking scheme I've started to get Bs and As and I've done a good mock exam. I'm sure I could become good at Art if I practised a lot. Just because some people have amazing artistic talent from an early age doesn't mean anyone else couldn't become very good at art with a lot of practice.

md99

JC 2K3 wrote:

My theory, which I'm sure many will agree with me on: Ability to rote learn is a more prevalent charaterisitic in students than ability to think logically or creatively, hence most students finding subjects like Business easier than Physics.

I agree, but I think rote learning is very important. While it takes a lot of time, it shows that the student really WANTS a good grade in the subject and they are rewarded accordingly...

An average student may want an A in Business, and may achieve it with the time put in.
This can't be said of say, English... A student can study English 24/7 and an A is still far from guaranteed...

If a student can pull most of his/her points from rote learning subjects, ie History, Business etc... Fair play to them. They're getting the points the best way they can, even if it takes a lot of time..

That said, subjects such as French and Maths are influenced more by practice than rote learning. Even with many 'rote' subjects, a high degree of natural intellect is usually essential to score highly..