Does driving on your own with first provisional void your insurance

swingking

I am driving for the last 8 months, and this has always been with a fully licensed driver.

I am a very competent driver and I want to start driving on my own.

The law doesn't scare me, but if I crash, will my insurance be voided (can't claim from my insurance due to me being on my own)

I have seen loads of people who drive on their own on first provisional licenses.

Surely they wouldn't do this if there insurance would be voided

really need genuine answers

Wishbone Ash

swingking wrote:

if I crash, will my insurance be voided (can't claim from my insurance due to me being on my own)

Surely they wouldn't do this if there insurance would be voided

Third party claims would have to be honoured. I'm not sure about your own claims.

swingking wrote:

I am a very competent driver

That's a very cavalier attitude for someone who is only driving for 8 months.

NeVeR

Wishbone Ash wrote:

That's a very cavalier attitude for someone who is only driving for 8 months.

Really? I was driving on my own 2 weeks after my Lessions. (Cos no one in my family can drive)

Wishbone Ash

NeVeR wrote:

Really? I was driving on my own 2 weeks after my Lessions. (Cos no one in my family can drive)

I have been driving for over 20 years, have a full licence in all 15 categories, was never involved in an accident (that was my fault), have never had an insurance claim claim, yet, I would only consider myself to be an average driver. I make mistakes. I could kill someone else or kill myself today.

Iompair

When I was in a similar situation 7 years ago, I was told by the broker that the claim will be honoured, but it'll screw you over at renewal time.

Is it a points offence these days? I haven't looked over the ones that were introduced recently.

The competent driver thing, good luck with that, it doesn't matter how good of a driver you are, you'll always come across some twit who can't even keep on their own side of the road if you go for drives longer then 5 minutes. Other drivers cannot be trusted. Except me of course I'm a rather excellent driver;)

daymobrew

NeVeR wrote:

Really? I was driving on my own 2 weeks after my Lessons. (Cos no one in my family can drive)

It does necessarily mean that you were good at it. Maybe you were.

swingking wrote:

The law doesn't scare me

Nice attitude. I wonder if a Garda could do you for driving without insurance if you were driving on your own. IMO, driving alone would be in violation of the insurance policy (and the law), thus invalidating it, therefore you could be considered to be driving without insurance.

swingking wrote:

really need genuine answers

Ask your insurance company.

md99

I've driven for a year unaccompanied on my first provisional, met the Gardaí at checkpoints several times and they don't even mind that I don't wear L plates, so you're okay for the moment, just apply for the test asap if you haven't already.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

That's a very cavalier attitude for someone who is only driving for 8 months.

Doesn't necessarily make it untrue.

md99

As regards third party, I made the enquiry with my insurer and they told me that being unaccompanied or not would not be looked into.

swingking

the point I was making is that I am competent enough to drive on my own without a full licence driver.

I don't consider myself a brilliant driver, in fact I am average, but good enough and confident enough to drive without a full license driver

furtzy

swingking wrote:

I don't consider myself a brilliant driver, in fact I am average, but good enough and confident enough to drive without a full license driver

Obviously not if you pick and choose what rules of the road apply to you.....any others that you feel you don't need to obey?

dr.bollocko

Its v. easy for a fully licenced driver to jump on his high horse and make statements like that, furtzy. the fact is that there is a huge delay in getting tests leaving some 300,000 learner drivers on our roads, waiting for a test, desperate for a test to drive on their own, to work, to the shops, to do the basic things you need a car for in this **** crazy country. It isnt about picking and choosing which rules apply, its a matter of not being able to wait that long (over a year from application to test in many test centres) and needing to have access to a car, even when there isnt a fully licenced driver present.

Wishbone Ash

dr.bollocko wrote:

the fact is that there is a huge delay in getting tests leaving some 300,000 learner drivers on our roads, waiting for a test, desperate for a test

There are 127,000 waiting for a test but 430,000 on provisional licences! What's the problem with the other 300,000?

furtzy

dr.bollocko wrote:

Its v. easy for a fully licenced driver to jump on his high horse and make statements like that, furtzy. the fact is that there is a huge delay in getting tests leaving some 300,000 learner drivers on our roads, waiting for a test, desperate for a test to drive on their own, to work, to the shops, to do the basic things you need a car for in this **** crazy country. It isnt about picking and choosing which rules apply, its a matter of not being able to wait that long (over a year from application to test in many test centres) and needing to have access to a car, even when there isnt a fully licenced driver present.

His attitude stinks. Statements like "the law doesn't scare me". What a prat.
Loads of things about driving are frustrating but unfortunately the rules are there for a reason. I don't like when I'm stuck in traffic beside an empty 24 hour bus lane...still don't drive in it though. For someone who has only been driving 8 months to come out with statements like that only show up their immaturity and state the case for being accompanied.

dr.bollocko

When he said "The law doesnt scare me" he was only referring to the one particular law regarding learner drivers not being able to drive on their own. But what you are saying is "if a learner driver questions this law, then in questioning it they are revealing how **** they are at driving because a lowly learner cant possibly control a car in a mature and decent manner, therefore, for a learner driver to assume such means that he is a bad driver." So what we are actually dealing with are your assumptions that all learner drivers arent competent to drive on their own, and if they say that they are competent to drive on their own, but dont have the piece of paper to prove it, then they must be immature, stupid learner drivers. Thats just one big ball of fallacy you have there.

Tony Danza

I know when I had a provisional the insurance company said that it wasn't a requirement by them for me to drive accompanied. After 8 months, I agree, time to start doing some driving on your own.

dr.bollocko

Didnt elton John write a song about you?

"Hold me closer, Tony Danza,
Count the headlights on the highway?"

omega man

swingking wrote:

the point I was making is that I am competent enough to drive on my own without a full licence driver.

I don't consider myself a brilliant driver, in fact I am average, but good enough and confident enough to drive without a full license driver

You can not make that decision. That is why you have to pass a test to aquire a full license and earn the privilage of driving alone legally. Wouldnt it be great if we could all make that judgement and not require a test......

furtzy

dr.bollocko wrote:

But what you are saying is "if a learner driver questions this law, then in questioning it they are revealing how **** they are at driving because a lowly learner cant possibly control a car in a mature and decent manner, therefore, for a learner driver to assume such means that he is a bad driver." So what we are actually dealing with are your assumptions that all learner drivers arent competent to drive on their own, and if they say that they are competent to drive on their own, but dont have the piece of paper to prove it, then they must be immature, stupid learner drivers. Thats just one big ball of fallacy you have there.

The driving test decides on whether they are competent not me and not the driver. This is just the usual bullsh*t attitude thats prominent on the road whether its getting the NCT done or displaying L plates etc etc etc. The "piece of paper" you refer to is a certificate of competency but if you or the OP think that you don't need this "piece of paper" then thats the immaturity and stupidty I was refering to before

dr.bollocko

Well Im not calling into question your ability to continue a retarded circular argument in the exact same circle without seeing anyone elses point or seeing why their argument is one big fallacy, but I also never said what status of driver I am or tell you any of my road habits.

cast_iron

Now I realise why I don't read C&T so much anymore. This was an enquiry about insurance.

md99

No one cares, furtzy.

If the OP believes himself to be fit for the road alone, then the OP will drive unaccompanied - he's not going to decide not to because of what YOU say...

Why don't you lecture the countless boy racers and L drivers who hit the road the day they turn 17, unaccompanied, barely fit to drive, speed to their hearts content and put the rest of us at risk? See how much they care what you think. At least the OP has sought advice on the matter before doing so.

furtzy wrote:

His attitude stinks. Statements like "the law doesn't scare me". What a prat.
Loads of things about driving are frustrating but unfortunately the rules are there for a reason.

So the OP should, while countless other provisionals are happily driving on the road alone, wait his turn to take the BS test that has a huge failure rate and that he's not guaranteed to pass, before driving alone even if he's perfectly capable of doing so and won't be prosecuted?

And then if he fails, walk for another year? What kind of logic is that?

swingking

Every single time I got into a car, turned on the engine and drove away. I have had an accompanied driver beside me. I have always obeyed the law. Get down from your high horse full license drivers.:mad:

Sure some of the full license drivers that have been driving today bought their licenses, when there was backlog 20 years ago.

I had to cancel my test, due to medical reasons, and now I am at the back of the queue.

When I said the law doesn't scare me, I didn't mean every single fooking law, I meant the law regarding being accompanied with full license drivers.

How many of you can say that they were always accompanied during the time they had a 1st provisional. Not many? Thought so?

As things stand I have not broken the law. I have insurance, tax and I drive accompanied

Tony Danza

dr.bollocko wrote:

Didnt elton John write a song about you?

"Hold me closer, Tony Danza,
Count the headlights on the highway?"

????

furtzy

md99 wrote:

So the OP should, while countless other provisionals are happily driving on the road alone, wait his turn to take the BS test that has a huge failure rate and that he's not guaranteed to pass, before driving alone even if he's perfectly capable of doing so and won't be prosecuted?

What a f**kin statement......not even worth commenting on

dr.bollocko

And yet you did.....

furtzy

swingking wrote:

Every single time I got into a car, turned on the engine and drove away. I have had an accompanied driver beside me. [/b]

Glad to hear it.

md99

lol, pot calling the kettle black if you ask me!

dr.bollocko

Tony Danza wrote:

????

Sorry a kissthisguy joke.

furtzy

dr.bollocko wrote:

And yet you did.....

Pure comedy gold........:rolleyes:

dr.bollocko

Not as funny as your attempt at forming a decent argument.
Thank god for rolleyes and high horses or you would have nothing to post at all!

furtzy

dr.bollocko wrote:

Not as funny as your attempt at forming a decent argument.
Thank god for rolleyes and high horses or you would have nothing to post at all!

Pass the test....get the licence problem solved. Simple really...no real need to argue

Vikings

I think the point that dr.bollocko is trying to make is that, if I am a provisional license holder and have my driving test tomorrow and I pass, on wednesday I would be a full license holder yet at the same time be the exact same driver with the exact same experience driving. The colour of my license is all that would change, no matter what there are going to be provisional license holders driving unaccompanied.

It's not only a matter of passing the test, waiting for the test is the problem.

tbh

swingking wrote:

I had to cancel my test, due to medical reasons, and now I am at the back of the queue.

Me too, got a note from the doc, resubmitted and got the test 1 month later.

as far as your original query - I remember a guy on TV (sorry I know that's not a great source) saying that if a provisional lic. holder had a crash while unaccompanied, or on a motorway, the claim would be honoured, but they would not get their policy renewed.

md99

dr.bollocko wrote:

Not as funny as your attempt at forming a decent argument.
Thank god for rolleyes and high horses or you would have nothing to post at all!

Agreed, thank God most of our society don't adapt furtzy's attitude of 'you're a provisional driver, only full's are worthy of my attention', face it your living in 22nd century Ireland, not the Third Reich.

The young in our society are being given far too much freedom!:mad: :mad: :mad: Back in my day this never would have happened!!!....:mad: :mad:

md99

furtzy wrote:

Pass the test....get the licence problem solved. Simple really...no real need to argue

Or just drive anyway, like everyone else, apply for your test, be happy if you pass and try again if you fail....

No real need to argue about that, is there?

DonJose

md99 wrote:

Or just drive anyway, like everyone else, apply for your test, be happy if you pass and try again if you fail....

What other country in the world allows a FAILED driver to get into behind the wheel of a car and drive home... LOL what a system.

cast_iron

DonJose wrote:

What other country in the world allows a FAILED driver to get into behind the wheel of a car and drive home... LOL what a system.

Do you not realise the alternative is even more farcical?

md99

DonJose wrote:

What other country in the world allows a FAILED driver to get into behind the wheel of a car and drive home... LOL what a system.

Agreed... It's fine for us provisionals now but I'm still against the principal of letting someone on the road so easily (a theory test... come on!) and letting us drive away scot free after the test.

That said, the test waiting list shouldn't be as long as it is, there should be more testers, etc... so there's two sides to the coin really. Eliminating provisional drivers unaccompanied would be nearly impossible - the Gardaí couldn't go pulling every learner driver who is alone, as those on their 2nd provisional don't require any full-licenced accompaniment. As well as that, lots of us will just take down our L plates and drive a little less - so as to avoid check points, which is SIMPLE most of the time, and even if they become more frequent it'll only be for a short while.

furtzy

md99 wrote:

Agreed, thank God most of our society don't adapt furtzy's attitude of 'you're a provisional driver, only full's are worthy of my attention', face it your living in 22nd century Ireland, not the Third Reich.

The young in our society are being given far too much freedom!:mad: :mad: :mad: Back in my day this never would have happened!!!....:mad: :mad:

??? No idea what you're going on about here....22nd century Ireland??? ramblings of an idiot

You need to step back here and look at the original post where a guy who has been driving 8 months describes himself as "a very compentent driver" even though he has no certification of competence. Its idiotic.

You might not agree with the current driving test or the wait times but its all we have. With all its flaws it is still the test of driving competency which the OP has not passed.

The OP should apply for cancellations and he should get a test date relatively quickly albeit I know with very little notice. But if he's confident then he should go for it.

Remember the provisional licence is not an actual licence but a learners permit...says so on the front. With regard to the insurance question I'd consider it a gamble. Insurance companies like anyone else will try to absolve themselves from pay out if the terms and conditions of the policy are not met. Driving unaccompanied, therefore driving illegally, could be seen as being in breach of terms and conditions same as being under the influence of alcohol in which circumstances they only pay the third party.

Seinas

down here in Kerry, the Gards dont bother if you dont have a full licenced driver.........ive been at it a week now

i dont understand that.....would i be right in saying they are more stricter in the cities?? i really dont know.......

Kadeshh

i drive around by myself on my first provisional. have done since a week after getting my licence.

a few months ago someone ran into the back of me (forgot to brake).
no one hurt, swopped details and i got my claim no probs. neither insurance companies asked nor did the other driver.

mind you the gardai werent called (unnessicary) but that might have been an issue then...

slickmcvic

The cops stopped me when I was 17 driving my da's new mondeo....They checked my L plates,looked at my licence (A PROVISIONAL!!!) and let me drive on..!!! I was on me own at the time, a named driver on the policy and didnt even mention the full driver thing....I was livin in rural donegal with a serious boy racer culture and they just turned a blind eye!!

ninty9er

It's really something of a grey area......Insurance companies shouldn't technically give insurance to provisional drivers since they don't have a licence at all....yes....your read right...a provisional is a permit to learn not a licence to kill

however if your insurance company will quote you for insurance then it's their problem if someone hits you or you hit someone else....

Technically you could be done for driving without a licence if a Garda was having a bad day

jhegarty

ninty9er wrote:

..a provisional is a permit to learn not a licence to kill

so thats why james bond didn't just go down the motor tax office...

Victor

md99 wrote:

As regards third party, I made the enquiry with my insurer and they told me that being unaccompanied or not would not be looked into.

However, for the comprehensive parts of your policy, you may be left swinging. Plus you'll have a bad insurance reputation.

mikemac

Completly off topic but the OP could get a motorbike.
You only wait 8 weeks for a Category A test.

I got my provisional A in November and my full A in Feburary. All that includes one test I cancelled 15 days before it was due so I had to wait for another test date.

If only there were similar waiting times for car drivers.

Hotblack Desiato

micmclo wrote:

If only there were similar waiting times for car drivers.

The main reason is that the motorbike pass rate is far higher than for cars, so there's not many eejits going in for tests when they're not ready, or failing their test for the umpteenth time.

Elessar

As a matter of interest, if you have a full licence (car), are you allowed to ride motorbikes or do you have to take another test? Reason I ask is because when I passed the cert only said for cat. B vehicles and as such I could only apply for a B licence.

miju

eh why was my post from the start of this thread deleted??????

Wishbone Ash

Elessar wrote:

As a matter of interest, if you have a full licence (car), are you allowed to ride motorbikes or do you have to take another test? Reason I ask is because when I passed the cert only said for cat. B vehicles and as such I could only apply for a B licence.

A category B licence will cover you to ride mopeds (M) and tractors (W).

Wishbone Ash

Kadeshh wrote:

someone ran into the back of me (forgot to brake).
no one hurt, swopped details and i got my claim no probs

That's a different senario as you were not at fault.

A lot of posters have mentioned that the Gardaí 'don't care'. It's not so much that the Gardaí don't care but that our District Court judges seem reluctant to prosecute for single motoring offences. If a Garda brings someone before the court, the judges seem to prefer that the defendant is up for several offences, e.g. seatbelt, tax, L plates, NCT etc. In my local District Court, provisional drivers are occasionally convicted of driving unaccompanied but it is always combined with other motoring offences.