Got fined 45 euro on luas - pretty annoyed. Should i appeal?

Dapos

Well here is my story. Was on luas monday morning 5th of February on green line. ticket inspector came on and asked for tickets and i showed him my monthly ticket as usual. He informed me that it was not valid. it was 2 days out of date. See i had unfortunately thought it was valid till 7th of February when in fact it was 3rd. inspector gave me a 45 euro fine. I'm pretty p***ed off about this really. Sure was it not obvious i am a regular customer. He could of just told me get off and get a ticket. I don't know how many times i have seen guys get caught on the red line and they are told to get off. I have never seen anyone fined before. this almost put me off using the luas. So i paid my fine yesterday and complained to customer care. They just told me i can appeal it. Should i? I know i was in the wrong for not having a valid ticket but in all fairness it was an honest mistake. Surely i didn't deserve a 45 euro fine. What do ye think?

Creamy Goodness

no you shouldn't appeal. you weren't in pocession of a valid ticket whilst travelling.

no court in the universe will find you not guilty.

Time Magazine

I know how much of a pain it is when you get nailed like that. It's particularly crap when you've seen lads having a blind eye turned to as well.

However, in fairness, you didn't have a valid ticket. Did your inspector let anyone else off? If not, I don't think you should appeal. Maybe write a letter to let it be known that some lads aren't prosecuted and just thrown off, but not appeal.

copacetic

appeal saying what? I've seen loads of people pulled up for no ticket and everyone of them has a similar excuse. You didn't have a ticket and they fined you. job done and you probably will make sure you actually have a ticket in future.

Dapos

Well my case really is that i had a monthly ticket and was only 2 days out of date. Like i said i know i was in the wrong but the inspector could of left me off. How is a person with a monthly ticket less than 48 hours out of date trying to "dodge the fare"

copacetic

well for all they know every month you take a weeks travel for free, not saying that you are lying, just that they hear the same story from everyone.

MarkR

Ok, but if he let off the person 2 days out, would it be fair to fine the guy with a three day expired one. He was after all on the way to see his poor sick mum.

You have no grounds to appeal. He was perfectly right in issuing you a fine.

TheNog

You have no grounds for appeal as you do not have any evidence of other people getting off the fine. Just suck it up and learn from it.

Flukey

Unfortunately Dapos, whether it was 2 days out of date or two months out of date, it was out of date. I've no doubt that it was a genuine mistake, but in this case you don't really have grounds for appeal. I'd leave it. You won't make the same mistake again.

Dapos

Ok i get wat ye are saying:

I was in the wrong
Guy had right to issue a fine.
how was he supposed to know i genuinely made a mistake
Bla bla bla

I still think it is unfair and a bit harsh. Enough said.

Wonder wat they will reply back with to the email i sent them complaining.

cast_iron

Rest assured they won't be entertaining your claim.

I'm shocked you think you have grounds for appeal. If they started entertaining excuses, everyone would be at it. It wouldn't be fair on all those who do actually make sure their tickets are valid.

DubTony

Dapos wrote:

I don't know how many times i have seen guys get caught on the red line and they are told to get off. I have never seen anyone fined before.

The reason for this is that if he tried to fine people on the red line he'd have the sh!t kicked out of him.

Zhane

Dapos wrote:

Ok i get wat ye are saying:

I was in the wrong
Guy had right to issue a fine.
how was he supposed to know i genuinely made a mistake
Bla bla bla

I still think it is unfair and a bit harsh. Enough said.

Wonder wat they will reply back with to the email i sent them complaining.

Dude, you were in the wrong. Just pay the fine and move on.

John R

Dapos, you hav no grounds for appeal, you were fare-evading. Intentional or not it really doesn't matter. It was your responsibility to make sure you had a valid ticket before boarding, the fine is deserved.

However I can understand your anger from seeing other people being let-off or just kicked off the tram in similar circumstances.

The rules should be enforced evenly but they aren't.

The fact is that trouble-making scum get away with it because the staff know full well how much difficulty there is in dealing with them never mind actually getting correct details to post a fine that will undoubtedly never get paid.

If instead of showing an expired monthly ticket the OP had told the inspector to "fukk off before i slash your bleedin' face wi me knife" he would most likely have gotten away with it. That is just the way things "work" in Dublin.

seamus

"I know I was doing 200km/h Garda, but I was obeying the speed limit for the rest of the day. A fine is a bit bloody harsh"

FlutterinBantam

You have learned one of the harshish lessons of Dublin life my man.

If you are generally law abiding,compliant,respectable and good mannered everybody will p1ss on you.

RATM

If you are appealing direct to LUAS I wouldnt bother wasting time.The corporation that fined you will not be entertaing any refunds of fines - possibly waht you should have done is refused to pay it, let them summons you and then take your chance in front of a judge,representing yourself, in the hope of it being quashed.

Miguel_Sanchez

No you shouldn't appeal.

Yours is not a special case. Your ticket wasn't valid, it's your responsibility to make sure it is. Sure you pay your fare normally but they have no way of knowing that.

I guarantee that nobody will listen to you if you try and appeal it. Just pay the fine.

Calina

Dapos wrote:

Surely i didn't deserve a 45 euro fine. What do ye think?

Yes you do. You messed up, you take it on the chin, end of.

Incidentally why doesn't the Luas have calendar monthly tickets like the rest of Europe?

OTK

I was in the same situation several years ago on a bus in London. I was taken off the bus by the police, appeared in court and offered a fine of £200 or a week in prison. I always pay the correct fare in London now but I'm not so careful in Dublin.

kmick

It was your own fault. Leave it go - it was only 45 euro so it is hardly a stiff penalty. Next time you see one of those inspectors leaving off someone walk over to them take out a pen and paper and ask for his name and number. Then twll him/her that you are reporting them for being lenient on scumbags and freeloaders. The only way people in this country are going to lose the 'a shure Ill get away with it' mentality is if the bloody laws are enforced. My sister got two points for talking on her mobile while driving and was disgusted evene though it is a law. Why would you even expect to get away with it. You should expect to get heavily punished if you are caught.

cast_iron

Does anyone else find the OP's sig a touch ironic?

Enigma365

Is it as easy as people say to give a fake name when caught without a valid ticket on the luas?

My friend used to get loads of luas fines through his letterbox in his old apartment. Apparently his address was commonly given by people caught without a ticket. He just threw them out.

I always buy a ticket for the luas(or tag on with my smartcard), but if I ever forgot and got caught without a ticket I wouldn't hesitate to give a fake name and address.

faceman

My other half has had 2 fines and had both of them scratched. She blatently did a freebie on the luas but is a regular and saw the inspector on a quiet day and gave him a sob story on both occasions. he scratched the tickets.

Back on topic, if you've paid it then you admitted you were in the wrong so you have less of a chance of success. But you've nothing to lose by appealing except your pride at this stage...

DerekP11

Following the letter of the law the OP was in the wrong. But once again the inconsistancies surface. As a reasonably regular user of the Red line, I have seen many people caught fare evading, but never seen any of them issued with a fine. They were simply escorted to the door and put off at the next stop. Some were chancers and some were more genuine. Furthermore, the level of anti-social behaviour, I witnessed when the Junior cert results came out was pretty appalling. They got warnings via the intercom, but did not abate and were not thrown off or fined. (especially for the vomiting) This is a regular feature on public transport. Fare policy is enforced to some degree, while anti- social behaviour tends to go unchecked.

Im a big believer in rules, but unless you have sweeping consistency in the enforcement of all these rules, then I would always encourage a person to take their chances on appeal, if they trully believe they made a mistake. Neither is it a crime to feel you've been done an injustice.

dumbyearbook

I think it is harsh, there are days of grace with you car insurance which to be fair is bloody important yet not on a ticket for a tram? C'mon they could allow 2 days either side of a tickets validity !

It is harsh because as the op always pays their fare (as do i; and as an aside 6months of smart card tag on and off and ive only been checked only once!!) and the one time they slip up they get caught its just lousy - im a green line user mostly but ive been on the red line and ive seen the guys being escorted off and i felt really hard done by!

Anyone agree ?:D

Victor

dumbyearbook wrote:

It is harsh because as the op always pays their fare and the one time they slip up they get caught its just lousy

The OP was **two** days over.

Calina wrote:

Incidentally why doesn't the Luas have calendar monthly tickets like the rest of Europe?

I'm sure you can work it to be monthly, but I imagine that everyone buying a monthly ticket on the first of the month (as would happen in Ireland, none of this advance buying) means queing. You can avail of the 30 day or the rolling (fairer than a calendar month) one month type.

http://www.luas.ie/ticket-types.php

seamus

dumbyearbook wrote:

I think it is harsh, there are days of grace with you car insurance which to be fair is bloody important yet not on a ticket for a tram? C'mon they could allow 2 days either side of a tickets validity !

There's no grace on car insurance

dumbyearbook

seamus wrote:

There's no grace on car insurance

You sure on this? I think you do get a couple of days with car insurance?

Anyway does anyone agree that on a monthly ticket you should get 48 hours or maybe just 24 hrs to buy a new ticket? I think it would be a nice offering tbh and easily implemented too, in fairness.

Calina

According to my insurance renewal notices there is no grace period on car insurance.

Why are people looking for get out clauses, or leniency? It's a public transport ticket. How hard is it to ensure you have a valid one? When I didn't get to renew my monthly card in Belgium for whatever reason (closed ticket desk or whatever) I just bought a single journey ticket if I needed to take a bus or a trame somewhere.

Why are people doing the poor mouth over this?

seamus

dumbyearbook wrote:

You sure on this? I think you do get a couple of days with car insurance?

Fairly sure. You usually get grace on all types of insurance except car insurance, because of the mandatory nature of the insurance.
By law the insurer is obliged to issue you with a renewal notice at least ten days before your insurance expires in order to allow you to shop around.

dowlingm

Dapos - if you were on IE you could send in a photocopy of your monthly ticket and the IE evasion notice because you had paid a fare but didn't have the proof on your person.

However, presumably you were buying the monthly LUAS pass retail in which case you had not paid for your ticket and should take responsibility. Pay up.

Victor

dumbyearbook wrote:

Anyway does anyone agree that on a monthly ticket you should get 48 hours or maybe just 24 hrs to buy a new ticket?

Why not call it a 34 day ticket then? you get a whole month to buy the next ticket.

cast_iron

dumbyearbook wrote:

Anyway does anyone agree that on a monthly ticket you should get 48 hours or maybe just 24 hrs to buy a new ticket? I think it would be a nice offering tbh and easily implemented too, in fairness.

In fairness, the monthly tickets are already discounted. And now you want them to throw in an extra few days for nothing too!

rediguana

Dapos wrote:

Well here is my story. Was on luas monday morning 5th of February on green line. ticket inspector came on and asked for tickets and i showed him my monthly ticket as usual. He informed me that it was not valid. it was 2 days out of date. See i had unfortunately thought it was valid till 7th of February when in fact it was 3rd. inspector gave me a 45 euro fine. I'm pretty p***ed off about this really. Sure was it not obvious i am a regular customer. He could of just told me get off and get a ticket. I don't know how many times i have seen guys get caught on the red line and they are told to get off. I have never seen anyone fined before. this almost put me off using the luas. So i paid my fine yesterday and complained to customer care. They just told me i can appeal it. Should i? I know i was in the wrong for not having a valid ticket but in all fairness it was an honest mistake. Surely i didn't deserve a 45 euro fine. What do ye think?

I believe you. But you have no grounds for appeal. Pay the fine and use a car from now on. There's too much ice at the poles anyway.

rediguana

cast_iron wrote:

Does anyone else find the OP's sig a touch ironic?

At least he HAS a signature, CastIron.

Anyway, the OP's signature should be: "It is far better to remain silent and look a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." It's a better version.

Mr. Presentable

Victor wrote:

Why not call it a 34 day ticket then? you get a whole month to buy the next ticket.

Because then the OP'd want 2 days grace and a 36 day ticket. Some people.

BeautifulLoser

I was in a similar situation last year. Was getting a weekly ticket every Monday. I was caught with an out of date ticket on a Tuesday after a Bank holiday Monday. It was one day out of date. I had the previous three weeks' tickets on me but they fined me anyway.

I decided to appeal. I wrote them a nice letter explaining my mistake and included the previous weeks' tickets.

A week later I received a letter saying that they had rescinded my fine and warned me not to do it again.

The company wants to catch the serial offenders, those who never pay, not people who loyally give them money week in week out.

Why would you not appeal? To save 48c?

Go for it and good luck!

Dapos

BeautifulLoser wrote:

I was in a similar situation last year. Was getting a weekly ticket every Monday. I was caught with an out of date ticket on a Tuesday after a Bank holiday Monday. It was one day out of date. I had the previous three weeks' tickets on me but they fined me anyway.

I decided to appeal. I wrote them a nice letter explaining my mistake and included the previous weeks' tickets.

A week later I received a letter saying that they had rescinded my fine and warned me not to do it again.

The company wants to catch the serial offenders, those who never pay, not people who loyally give them money week in week out.

Why would you not appeal? To save 48c?

Go for it and good luck!

Finally someone who had a similar experience. This is how i would have assumed the company would react to my appeal. Now there have been alot of people telling me stop whinning and just pay it cause i was in the wrong. I never said i wasn't in the wrong. I have paid the fine as well btw but i'm still going to wait for a reply from them. For those post comparing it to penalty points etc i would argue it's not the same situation. Penalty points were introduced by government to save lives on roads. Luas fines where introduced by the luas company to stop people abusing the system and not paying for the service. Like i said before, if it is clear that u use the service and pay, i.e. a monthly ticket, then a warning would be more appropriate. If you come into work on time every day and then one day u are late, should u be fired!

Now fair enough there are those of u who (clearly) disagree with me and i'm sure ye would make great ticket inspectors but at least i know now that this happened to someone else and the got somewhere with an appeal.


P.S. my signature was kinda meant to be ironic!

Victor

Then collect up your recent monthly tickets, with no breaks in between and appeal on that basis.

AlekSmart

Prevarication,befuddlement,Outrage and finally relief at finding another fellow traveller.

Classic Hurling on the ditch as we insist of being able to bend things in the Uri Geller fashion.
We won`t stop for Red lights,but hey...we aint going to GO for a Green either.

JC 2K3

Luas fines are pointless as anyone not paying the fare simply has to watch out for the ticket inspectors who stick out like a sore thumb in their bright, luminous jackets. If you see one at the stop about to get on then you get off. And due to the efficiency of the Luas system, you get another one within 5 mins.

I only take free Luas rides when I genuinely have no money and need to get somewhere fast, but when I do I can't imagine any way that I'd possibly get caught.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/general_information.asp

THE STANDARD FARE

Bye-Law No. 19 enables Dublin Bus to levy a standard fare on any passenger found travelling on a bus without being in possession of a current valid ticket for the journey taken. The standard fare at present is €30.00 and may be increased from time to time as the Board sees fit. Failure to pay this €30.00 immediately or within 21 days of the issue of the Standard Fare Form will result in the passenger being prosecuted for fare evasion.

I think this means you if you don't pay up on a BUS you are dodging a €30 fare and so more serious in court than if you were dodging a €1 one. Is this true of the Luas too ?

lostexpectation

BeautifulLoser wrote:

I was in a similar situation last year. Was getting a weekly ticket every Monday. I was caught with an out of date ticket on a Tuesday after a Bank holiday Monday. It was one day out of date. I had the previous three weeks' tickets on me but they fined me anyway.

I decided to appeal. I wrote them a nice letter explaining my mistake and included the previous weeks' tickets.

A week later I received a letter saying that they had rescinded my fine and warned me not to do it again.

The company wants to catch the serial offenders, those who never pay, not people who loyally give them money week in week out.

Why would you not appeal? To save 48c?

Go for it and good luck!

great stuff, a snare to all those but thems the rules A*holes that post on this board

Red Alert

It's very hard to prosecute a non-existant person or address.

For the record, I always pay my fare and I think people who don't deserve to get fined. However everybody must get the same treatment. That means either being put out or fined or whatever. You can't have different rules for different people.

dumbyearbook

nipplenuts wrote:

Because then the OP'd want 2 days grace and a 36 day ticket. Some people.

In fairness we are talking about a ticket one day out of date here

I think -and it would be fair to the regualr ticket buyers -that when you are actually in possesion of an unvalid ticket as proof that you have been unfortunate (say out of date by one day?) - you should be left with a warning and nuff said

for gods sake alot of you seem to think these rules are what holds society together!! why would you begrudge that to a customer of what is a relatively expensive means of transport?

a day here or there on the luas is fine by me anyway if people were treated fairly

there is a big difference in having a monthly ticket just out of date and not being in possesion of a ticket at all.

"Some people" my foot:mad:

Victor

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/general_information.aspI think this means you if you don't pay up on a BUS you are dodging a €30 fare and so more serious in court than if you were dodging a €1 one. Is this true of the Luas too ?

Yes, except for Luas it is €45.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Luas fines are pointless as anyone not paying the fare simply has to watch out for the ticket inspectors who stick out like a sore thumb in their bright, luminous jackets. If you see one at the stop about to get on then you get off. And due to the efficiency of the Luas system, you get another one within 5 mins.

Which tram do you think they will check next?

I only take free Luas rides when I genuinely have no money and need to get somewhere fast, but when I do I can't imagine any way that I'd possibly get caught.

What happens when you show up at a stop and there are 10 ticket inspectors?

dumbyearbook wrote:

In fairness we are talking about a ticket one day out of date here

Did you read the first post or are you being doubly flexible with the rules (of maths)?

Dapos wrote:

it was 2 days out of date.

Mr. Presentable

dumbyearbook wrote:

In fairness we are talking about a ticket one day out of date here .. there is a big difference in having a monthly ticket just out of date and not being in possesion of a ticket at all.

"Some people" my foot:mad:

Just for clarity it was two days, but no matter. No ticket is no ticket and an expired ticket is no ticket. It's not that difficult to understand

Del2005

JC 2K3 wrote:

Luas fines are pointless as anyone not paying the fare simply has to watch out for the ticket inspectors who stick out like a sore thumb in their bright, luminous jackets. If you see one at the stop about to get on then you get off. And due to the efficiency of the Luas system, you get another one within 5 mins.

I only take free Luas rides when I genuinely have no money and need to get somewhere fast, but when I do I can't imagine any way that I'd possibly get caught.

Be a wary of this. I was getting a Green line luas into town before Christmas and they had undercover ticket inspectors on the tram. They where sitting down in the sears and then stood up and took Viola(sp?) badges out and checked everyones tickets. Tram was packed and everyone just looked at them at first but after a little while we figured out who they where.

JC 2K3

Del2005 wrote:

Be a wary of this. I was getting a Green line luas into town before Christmas and they had undercover ticket inspectors on the tram. They where sitting down in the sears and then stood up and took Viola(sp?) badges out and checked everyones tickets. Tram was packed and everyone just looked at them at first but after a little while we figured out who they where.

Even still. Stand/sit in a seat beside the door (preferably at the very front or very back.) There's not very long between stops, so in the worst case scenario(ie. they ask you for your ticket before you've a chance to hop off) you could just pretend you couldn't find your ticket, stall them by checking all your pockets thoroughly and leg it when the tram stops and the door opens beside you

copacetic

JC 2K3 wrote:

Even still. Stand/sit in a seat beside the door (preferably at the very front or very back.) There's not very long between stops, so in the worst case scenario(ie. they ask you for your ticket before you've a chance to hop off) you could just pretend you couldn't find your ticket, stall them by checking all your pockets thoroughly and leg it when the tram stops and the door opens beside you

u are some sad fecker! see kids dodge the fair all the time, stay near the door keeping an eye out and then hopping off if they spot anyone in yellow. they always seem to think they are mad cool too...