What do you make of this...

I_and_I

I have recently learned of a chain of gyms that offer you an amazing deal (so they say). They claim that they can help you lose 11 pounds of fat and gain 3 pounds of muscle in just 12 days. I don't know about anyone else but this seems like a bit of a crazy claim to me, then I find they also claim this will only take 4 hour of training. And all this at half the price you would pay an average personal trainer. Anyone else smell a bit of a scam? I only got to thinking about this because I spotted it in a local newspaper this morning there is one open in Ennis.

LundiMardi

Name and shame...

Losing 11lbs of fat is possible if you're sick, very sick... But i doubt gainging 3lbs of muscle would even be possible at the same time.

I_and_I

They call themselve educogym. All a bit fishy really.

hardtrainer

I say it's impossible, in that amount of time. If you just do the math, 11lbs (~5kg) fat is equal to about 40,000kcal which is 2 to 3 weeks worth of calories (on average). A 2000cal deficit per day could not be maintained for more than a couple of days and even then, the body would be under considerable strain, starvation mode would certainly kick in and you'd more than likely lose more muscle than fat.

because_I_can

educo anything = tony quinn
biggest w@nker and snake oil salesman this side of the atlantic. avoid at all costs

Shrimp

On a perfect diet, workout and recovery programme max muscle gains are about .5lbs per 7 day period.

poobum

scam..shame on those people...

davyjose

hardtrainer wrote:

I say it's impossible, in that amount of time. If you just do the math, 11lbs (~5kg) fat is equal to about 40,000kcal which is 2 to 3 weeks worth of calories (on average). A 2000cal deficit per day could not be maintained for more than a couple of days and even then, the body would be under considerable strain, starvation mode would certainly kick in and you'd more than likely lose more muscle than fat.

I could do it - kidding.
But seriously, it's a crazy claim to make to any randomer. If I had a 3% Bodyfat (I wish) could they make me lose 11lb fat? And what are they going to do, follow you round and make sure you don't eat for a week?

maxxxsensation

Most gyms are cons and will say anything to get you to join. I have worked for many gyms in the past. All I can say is that if someone says they only have 5 places left, they infact mean we have 1000's of places keft but we will hassle you in to joining today. Always go away and consider your options, and don't join Jackie Skelly under any circumstances. All they see from you is money and your well-being is not remotely important!

justsomebloke

Shrimp wrote:

On a perfect diet, workout and recovery programme max muscle gains are about .5lbs per 7 day period.

arse that I put on around 8lbs of lean mass over a 4-5 week period over christmas and i know one or 2 others who have put on decent amounts of mass in short periods.

I_and_I

jsb wrote:

arse that I put on around 8lbs of lean mass over a 4-5 week period over christmas and i know one or 2 others who have put on decent amounts of mass in short periods.

Not all that was lean mass as you say, its a given that some of that was fat. Especially taking into account it was christams. I myself have put on 4 kilos since the start of december but I wouldnt dream of saying it was lean mass.

empirix

Chain of gyms??? Is this the latest trick from headquarters? Educo is tony quinn, his been banging on about those claims for years - old news

justsomebloke

I_and_I wrote:

Not all that was lean mass as you say, its a given that some of that was fat. Especially taking into account it was christams. I myself have put on 4 kilos since the start of december but I wouldnt dream of saying it was lean mass.

actually no it was lean mass, I actually put on around 12lb overall in the full 4 weeks and I had accounted for fat gain in the figure I gave

Dragan

Shrimp wrote:

On a perfect diet, workout and recovery programme max muscle gains are about .5lbs per 7 day period.

Obviously this is not a steady gain dude. It would be impossible to do this all the time, or quite simply a lot more people would be 300+ pounds ripped.

Guvnor

You do not put on 8lbs of lean mass in 4 weeks. It's about as likely as being 5% bodyfat for years!
Below are two pictures taken 4 years apart of a seasoned bb competitor at around the 5-6% bf mark the difference in 'lean' weight is 13lbs - pretty big fcuking difference isn't it?



Now for 13lbs of lean mass gained over 4 yrs of hardtraining:

Dragan

Guvnor wrote:

You do not put on 8lbs of lean mass in 4 weeks.

Maybe you don't, but JSB did. I distinctly remember putting on 7 pounds of lean mass in 4 weeks.

The reasons i remember it so well is that i was meeting JSB and a few other posters from here for a meal and a few drinks and JSB loudly proclaimed how much he "****ing hated me" for adding so much mass in such a short time.

So, in short, maybe you don't ( any chance you were scuppering your gains with **** supplements? ) but it can be done.....not regularly and not by everyone no doubt....but it can be done.

justsomebloke

yes but a seasoned BB is going to be at the end of the scale where gains our going to be a lot harder to come by and I would be no where near that stage.

before the bulk I was coming off what had been a pretty hard 3 day a week strength building programme and diet wise it had been a bit restricted and so when I came off this and started doing a 4 day split 5 times a week with a massive overall calorie intake and the gains a that point came quiet easily, however after this the gains went back to being really hard to get again.

Oh and Dragan I still do hate you for that you fecker as nobody who was already your size should be able to make gains like you did *shakes fist*:D

Dragan

jsb wrote:

Oh and Dragan I still do hate you for that you fecker as nobody who was already your size should be able to make gains like you did *shakes fist*:D

Ah, it was really all down to a combo of Dave Tate, John Berardi and Alwyn Cosgrove. I just did the lifting and the eating after robbing all there ideas!

I_and_I

I still find it very hard to beleive, sorry.

Dragan

I_and_I wrote:

I still find it very hard to beleive, sorry.

As you should do, your reading it on a website

Can't say myself or JSB will lose any sleep over it. The simple fact is that correct manipulation of diet can do the most fantastic things, but they won't happen all the time.

If your coming out of a heavy or even moderate calorie restriction and you then up the calories somewhat ( try AnaCat for example http://teamtest.freeforumsite.com/teamtest-about761.html ) and up the work load as well in a clever and well thought out manner you can take serious advantage of your body going "food??? NOICE!" and going into anabolic overload. It rocks and is something that most people will overlook.

Guvnor

Keeping chasing the rainbow boys!

Dragan

Guvnor wrote:

Keeping chasing the rainbow boys!

**** the rainbow, it's always dissapointing when you find out the pot of whey at the end of it has what, 20% protein?

t-ha

Guvnor wrote:

You do not put on 8lbs of lean mass in 4 weeks. It's about as likely as being 5% bodyfat for years!

Ronnie Coleman stayed at 5%BF year-round for most of the years he was bodybuilding.

I'm not going to comment on lean gains in terms of specific numbers because I think it's pointless to try and limit people, but I will say that I've found that I will go through periods where gains are hard to come by, and then periods where my lean mass shoots up very quickly, and that putting a mental celing on what your gains can be seems silly to me.

As for that picture, yes 13lbs of lean mass does make a HUGE difference...

...on a short-arse, a big difference on a regular guy, a noticeable difference on a tall guy & I know a very tall guy who would soak up a 13lb increase and you'ld just about register it.

Guvnor

Ronnie Coleman stayed at 5%BF year-round for most of the years he was bodybuilding.

Dragan

Guvnor wrote:

Ronnie Coleman stayed at 5%BF year-round for most of the years he was bodybuilding.

Out of interest mate, are you doing to offer a decent explanation as to why your disagree with the statement or are you still at the stage where your enamoured with the pictures???

walt0r

5% for most of the year? Are you kidding me? Ronnie Coleman? Nearly every pro-bber balloons to the size of a small country in the off season

rubadub

hardtrainer wrote:

I say it's impossible, in that amount of time. If you just do the math, 11lbs (~5kg) fat is equal to about 40,000kcal which is 2 to 3 weeks worth of calories (on average). A 2000cal deficit per day could not be maintained for more than a couple of days and even then, the body would be under considerable strain, starvation mode would certainly kick in and you'd more than likely lose more muscle than fat.

There is a serious flaw in your mathematics, it makes sense

There calculation would be 11-3=8lb so all they have to do is make a scales say you have 8lb less force acting on it, then tell you 11lb of this loss was fat and 3lb of muscle was gained. This can easily be done with a crooked scales, using a different spring on a fat calipers, or just putting you on a dehydration diet. I can exert an 8lb difference on my scales in about 2 days easy.

mickoo

maxxxsensation wrote:

Most gyms are cons and will say anything to get you to join. and don't join Jackie Skelly under any circumstances. All they see from you is money and your well-being is not remotely important!

dont forget this is a business. they are the best known gym in ireland for customer service and spend serious money on trying to be the best in this area-which gym did you a disservice? and how?