Building chest and arms

connundrum

How do,

Ok so atm I'm going to the gym 3-4 times a week depending. I'm not worried about the losing weight bit as I know that will happen by itself with the cardio I'm doing, but what I am trying to do is get the aul chest and arms going.

I started off with free weights 12kgs each in 3 different positions on a bench (3 x 8 reps) along with the same reps on this machine, this machine, and this machine. (Sorry, I'm crap with machine names )

Now I'm up to 16kgs free weights - arm curl etc, and I'm doing 20kgs free weights in the bench position (flat down on the bench).

Anything else I can be doing? Tightening the chest is objective #1. Last time I measured it, it was 46", I don't know whether these exercises will increase the chest size or not?

rubadub

Most will probably advise to use free weights over machines. Many join gyms, pay a fortune in fees and feel they have to use machines to get "value",

(3 x 8 reps) along with the same reps on

How many exercises are you doing? you could be overtraining yourself. Esp if doing all these 4 times a week. Many exercises will indirectly work the chest too. What other exercises are you doing? Most will advise squats and deadlifts as a must. You may not think they are working you hard but will stimulate overall growth. Too much work on one area will result in no growth at all, especially in the overtrained area.

Nerdwithglasses

connundrum wrote:

How do,

Ok so atm I'm going to the gym 3-4 times a week depending. I'm not worried about the losing weight bit as I know that will happen by itself with the cardio I'm doing, but what I am trying to do is get the aul chest and arms going.

I started off with free weights 12kgs each in 3 different positions on a bench (3 x 8 reps) along with the same reps on this machine, this machine, and this machine. (Sorry, I'm crap with machine names )

Now I'm up to 16kgs free weights - arm curl etc, and I'm doing 20kgs free weights in the bench position (flat down on the bench).

Anything else I can be doing? Tightening the chest is objective #1. Last time I measured it, it was 46", I don't know whether these exercises will increase the chest size or not?

First of all you should have a specific day just for chest and arms where you just concentrate on developing these two muscle groups. On this day I would advise doing mainly free weights. Concentrate mostly on Bench Press and Incline Bench Press for chest cause that will give you overall size. The wight you're using is up to you but if you can do at least 8 reps confortably then you should be rise the weight. For chest I always do an extra set doing about 4 or 5 reps to failure to make sure my chest is completely pumped.
For arms, you have to divide between Biceps and the Triceps. You should do at least 2 or 3 exercises for each of these muscles. My personal favourites and they are the bread and butter of arm workouts is: Biceps: Barbell Curl, Dumbell alternating curl, Hammer curls or Preacher curls. For Triceps: Rope pulldowns and skullcrushers. Thats how I get my arms going. If you're not familiar with these terms you can look them up on bodybuilding.com.

Now...all this won't do a thing if you're concentrating on losing weight because I've never known a person that could lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. it's just impossible. It it were me I'd concentrate on gaining muscle for about 12 weeks. Just eating well and no cardio. If after the 12 weeks you've gained the desired results (in the muscle department) then start a season to lose weight. For another 12 weeks concentrate on cardio and low-carb diet. Need any other advice just ask ok?

hardtrainer

If you're seeing results for your fat loss goals from your cardio, then keep that up. It's important to realise that when you're starting off with resistance training, you will see gains quite easily so long as you are working hard in the gym when you are there, resting plenty to give your muscles time to grow and recover, and finally, avoid the temptation to keep working any one muscle group again and again, which will easily lead to over training.

If you are making it to the gym 3-4 times per week, split your weight training up between the sessions. Also, concentrate on compound lifts, like squats, deadlifts, olympic lifts etc, which will give you much better results in overall muscle growth, than doing isolation exercises that only focus on the mirror muscles (arms and chest).

As for putting on muscle while losing weight, thats not a problem at all. It only really becomes an issue when you get to that point where you're trying to force your body to put on more muscle than it wants to, i.e. at the upper end of the scale, bodybuilders, people who already have a decent level of muscle. For the majority of people (no offense to those who are more experienced, but lets face it, look around your gym...unless you're in a bodybuilders gym) a very simple workout, along with cardio to help reduce bodyfat (if needed) and a sensible diet, will deliver consistent and noticeable results in the medium to long term (i.e. 3-9 months).

Complicated workout routines and diet programs are not going to help at that level and are not needed anyway.

Nerdwithglasses

hardtrainer wrote:

If you're seeing results for your fat loss goals from your cardio, then keep that up. It's important to realise that when you're starting off with resistance training, you will see gains quite easily so long as you are working hard in the gym when you are there, resting plenty to give your muscles time to grow and recover, and finally, avoid the temptation to keep working any one muscle group again and again, which will easily lead to over training.

If you are making it to the gym 3-4 times per week, split your weight training up between the sessions. Also, concentrate on compound lifts, like squats, deadlifts, olympic lifts etc, which will give you much better results in overall muscle growth, than doing isolation exercises that only focus on the mirror muscles (arms and chest).

As for putting on muscle while losing weight, thats not a problem at all. It only really becomes an issue when you get to that point where you're trying to force your body to put on more muscle than it wants to, i.e. at the upper end of the scale, bodybuilders, people who already have a decent level of muscle. For the majority of people (no offense to those who are more experienced, but lets face it, look around your gym...unless you're in a bodybuilders gym) a very simple workout, along with cardio to help reduce bodyfat (if needed) and a sensible diet, will deliver consistent and noticeable results in the medium to long term (i.e. 3-9 months).

Complicated workout routines and diet programs are not going to help at that level and are not needed anyway.

I beg to differ. Connundrum asks specifically for improvements in his chests and arms. I can't understand how a compound lift like a squat can help in the chest and arm deparment. Second: I believe it's pretty hard to build muscle and lose weight at the same time. sometime while losing weight the muscles start to stand out but it isn'r necessarily growing. Third: connundrum hasn't specified how much effort his willing to put in this. I automatically assumed he wanted really good results, and for good results, you need to take things to another level: consistent protein diet, good workout routine, in sum, a good degree of sacrifice. If it isn't that important for him I guess what he's been doing is fine.

justsomebloke

Nerdwithglasses wrote:

I beg to differ. Connundrum asks specifically for improvements in his chests and arms. I can't understand how a compound lift like a squat can help in the chest and arm deparment.

Big compound movements like squats help to increase tests levels and IGF-I levels (there are a people who are better at explaining it so I will leave it to them) which is what you want if you want bigger muscles be that in the arms or anywhere else

Nerdwithglasses wrote:

Second: I believe it's pretty hard to build muscle and lose weight at the same time.

eh it just depends on how good a diet you have and how you time your food, read anacat.teamtestforum.com

davyjose

Just to clarify, when we say build muscle and lose weight, are we talking losing bodyfat, or actual bodyweight, because this could be the reason for the two conflicting opinions?

HammerHeadGym

jsb wrote:

Big compound movements like squats help to increase tests levels and IGF-I levels

More specifically, when the heart starts operating at 90%+ of it's maximum level, the body secretes human growth hormone, which as we all know, burns fat, leads to hyperplasia and repairs damage done during training. Many top level body builders advocate training a flagging body part on the same day as squats.

t-ha

Nerdwithglasses wrote:

I beg to differ. Connundrum asks specifically for improvements in his chests and arms. I can't understand how a compound lift like a squat can help in the chest and arm deparment.

I'd agree to a point, but focusing only on chest & arms will lead to muscle imbalances and creaky shoulders if he makes much progress with them, so he's better off looking up a balanced programme, and building himself up proportionately.

Squats are great for burning fat and adding overall mass, partly because of the hormonal response to doing them hard & partly because they involve so many muscle groups in the exercise - but I couldn't see them building an impressive chest or arms by themselves. The hormonal response to a tough squat session is to give a short blimp of extra test followed by a fall off (test is lowered in people who train hard in general), and an IGF-1 and GH increase later on. However, even people who inject themselves with huge doses of IGF-1 and GH won't grow big arms and a big chest without working them out, let alone whatever changes occur in a natural trainee as a response to squats.

Transform

Sounds like you have been reading too many Flex magazines!!!

Putting a beginner on a split program is like inviting Mary Harney for a 10km run - could really help but its a bad idea.


T-ha hit the nail on the head you want bigger anything squat, deadlift and press

connundrum

Hey sorry I was away from this forum for a while there.

Nerdwithglasses wrote:

I beg to differ. Connundrum asks specifically for improvements in his chests and arms. I can't understand how a compound lift like a squat can help in the chest and arm deparment.

Ok, atm consider me a beginner. I'm doing deadlifts, benching, free weight arm curls, and what I can only describe as variable free weight exercises whilst lying on the bench.

Can we say that fewer reps with bigger weights is better or what? I'm deadlifting 30kgs 8 times, benching 80-90kgs 10 times and the free weights have now gone up to 18-20kgsdepending on the exercise.

Nerdwithglasses wrote:

Second: I believe it's pretty hard to build muscle and lose weight at the same time. sometime while losing weight the muscles start to stand out but it isn'r necessarily growing.

Sorry if I caused confusion with this. I am doing 30-40 mins of cardio per session as I want to stay relatively fit whilst working on the arms and chest. Weight loss isn't an issue as I know that toning of the relevant parts will come naturally with the cardio work.

Nerdwithglasses wrote:

Third: connundrum hasn't specified how much effort his willing to put in this. I automatically assumed he wanted really good results, and for good results, you need to take things to another level: consistent protein diet, good workout routine, in sum, a good degree of sacrifice. If it isn't that important for him I guess what he's been doing is fine.

I've recently changed my point of view on what I want from my body, hence the asking for advice. A few months ago, I was looking to drop weight, and now I'm happy staying the same weight (and possibly putting on more muscle) and just generally becoming fitter. Since I was 16 the size of my chest has always been commented on so I figure why not work on it and tone it. Bigger arms would be a bonus too.

Work circumstances allow me 4 trips to the gym which is fairly evenly spread over the week. I will go hard at the arms and chest for 2 nights, do normal cardio + lighter weights for 1 night and probably go for a swim the other day.

My weekday diet has changed dramatically, veg intake is up 100% and I'm eating fish for the first time in years.

Basically, I know this isn't just a flash in the pan kind of notion I have. I will stick with it as it works. I feel good about eating healthy and I have waay more energy from the exercise.

Constructive advice on exercises and diet would be much appreciated. I have Food for Fitness by Anita Bean and I find it mega helpful. I don't know much about protein shakes etc and would probably consider myself a bit of a newbie to even think about them yet.

Cheers thus far though

t-ha

In most training guidelines, a bodyweight bench, double bodyweight squat and 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift are considered pretty good.

Your 90kg bench for sets of 10 and your 30kg deads for sets of 8 scream imbalances to me. Basically what you're saying is you're not strong unless you're lying flat on your back. I cannot recommend enough that you do a balanced programme - without being too harsh your deadlift is pathetic by comparison with your bench.

This one is called The Art of Waterbury Programme;

DAY 1
Sets: 10
Reps: 3
Load: 80% of 1RM
Rest: 70 seconds between exercise pairings

Exercises:

A1 Push Presses
A2 Chin-ups
B1 Good Mornings
B2 Standing Calf Raises
C1 Dips or Decline Bench Presses with bar or dumbbells
C2 Side Bends

DAY 2

Off, or perform 15-20 minutes of light cardio work (uphill walking, jogging, etc.)

DAY 3
Sets: 3
Reps: 12
Load: 70% of 1RM
Rest: 90 seconds between each set

Exercises:

Back Squats
Bent Over Rows or Chest Supported Rows
Flat Bench Presses (bar or dumbbells)
Seated Calf Raises or Donkey Calf Raises
Triceps Pressdowns or French Presses
External Rotations

DAY 4
Same as Day 2

DAY 5
Sets: 4
Reps: 6
Load: 85% of 1RM
Rest: 75 seconds between each exercise pairing

Exercises:
A1 Barbell Hack Squats
A2 Standing Hammer Curls
B1 Power Cleans
B2 Skull Crushers or Lying DB Triceps Extensions
C1 Incline Bench Presses with bar or dumbbells
C2 Seated Calf Raises or Cable Crunches

DAY 6
Same as Day 2

DAY 7
Repeat cycle for three more weeks

Progression:
Day 1: Increase the load 2.5% with each subsequent workout.
Day 3: Decrease the rest periods 5 seconds with each subsequent workout.
Day 5: Add one set to each exercise with each subsequent workout.

Be sure to note that on day 1, you do 10 sets of three reps, but the weight used is only 80% of your 1RM - nowhere near the max weight you can lift three times!

hardtrainer

To clarify, when I said lose weight, I meant reduce bodyfat. Reducing bodyfat and gaining muscle can be done together. The OP quite rightly considers himself a beginner. A simple workout is going to be give the best results. I advocated squats, deadlifts etc in my previous post because I figured (accurately, might I add) that like most beginners, the OP is likely to have a very imbalanced approach to training. This is not good and leads to injury if not corrected soon. We've all been there, so I don't mean that as any slight on the OP. Proper research will convince any newbie of the importance of a balanced training approach, regardless of their goals.

The emphasis that many people place on chest and arms is very short sighted and doesn't take into account that at some point in the future they may want to push things further. More importantly though, such an imbalance in training is dangerous, simple as that.

Compound lifts will give the beginner the greatest overall improvement. Will you have arms like popeye in a couple of weeks? no. If you fail to work your back, will you EVER have arms like popeye? no.

Training doesn't need to be complicated. It doesn't need weeks of planning and research into the latest program fad. Excellent results can be achieved with hard work and a solid, balanced lifting regime, so long as ample rest is given and the diet is good.

g'em

hardtrainer wrote:

Training doesn't need to be complicated. It doesn't need weeks of planning and research into the latest program fad. Excellent results can be achieved with hard work and a solid, balanced lifting regime, so long as ample rest is given and the diet is good.

Quoted for truth

Nerdwithglasses

davyjose wrote:

Just to clarify, when we say build muscle and lose weight, are we talking losing bodyfat, or actual bodyweight, because this could be the reason for the two conflicting opinions?

Good question...I guess it's actual bodyfat.

Nerdwithglasses

Transform wrote:

Sounds like you have been reading too many Flex magazines!!!

Putting a beginner on a split program is like inviting Mary Harney for a 10km run - could really help but its a bad idea.


T-ha hit the nail on the head you want bigger anything squat, deadlift and press

Good one. I guess i been reading too many flex magazines have even though the split training has been working great for me. About the Chest and Arms program, I have to agree with Hardtrainer when he says it's pretty shortsighted to focus mainly on these two muscle groups. Well...whatever. If the circumstances change i'll be back here to comment again.

Colly07

( If after the 12 weeks you've gained the desired results (in the muscle department) then start a season to lose weight. For another 12 weeks concentrate on cardio and low-carb diet. Need any other advice just ask ok?[/QUOTE])

Specifically Nerdwithglasses, however anyone Is welcome to reply, Would you rely suggest 12 weeks weights, 12 weeks Cardio. I’m not second guessing you, just as a matter of best practise I’d like to know what you feel is the best split. I’ve been training for 5 yrs, 14 stone, train 3-4 times per week and have a really good Diet. Although I would like to lose some weight off my bottom half, as I’m not sure if its genetic that all fat resides there of just a matter that I train my top half most of the week. Anyway getting back to the point, what’s the split that you do??

Nerdwithglasses

Colly07 wrote:

( If after the 12 weeks you've gained the desired results (in the muscle department) then start a season to lose weight. For another 12 weeks concentrate on cardio and low-carb diet. Need any other advice just ask ok?

)

Specifically Nerdwithglasses, however anyone Is welcome to reply, Would you rely suggest 12 weeks weights, 12 weeks Cardio. I’m not second guessing you, just as a matter of best practise I’d like to know what you feel is the best split. I’ve been training for 5 yrs, 14 stone, train 3-4 times per week and have a really good Diet. Although I would like to lose some weight off my bottom half, as I’m not sure if its genetic that all fat resides there of just a matter that I train my top half most of the week. Anyway getting back to the point, what’s the split that you do??[/QUOTE]

Well I guess that depends...Check your scale and mirror and see if it's a good time to start a cardio season. Afterwards, if you see that 12 weeks isn't enough to shred off that extra fat then you should continue or just see if everything is ok with your diet.

rubadub

t-ha wrote:

Your 90kg bench for sets of 10 and your 30kg deads for sets of 8 scream imbalances to me.

Was it a typo? maybe should have been 130kg.
Seems very odd, I can only bench about 60kg for 10 reps, but could deadlift over 100kg.