How do you feel about the property market and what is your situation.

iguana

This is a similar question to that in Muji's stickied poll, but this thread is one for personal situations and outlooks. I'd rather it didn't turn into a facts and figures debate, (there is enough of that on most other threads here) but is about poster's personal situations, hopes, fears and predictions on the property market.

Are you old or young, single or in a couple, Irish at home, Irish abroad or non-Irish in Ireland? Employed or in college, a parent or living with your parents? Do you own, do you hope to own, do you rent, have you sold, are you a landlord? And do you think prices will continue to rise, drop or level off. And if they do how will you personally be affected.

I'm just curious as to how much people's views on the property market are coloured by their own hopes/fears.

Personally as my husband and I live and own in London but would like to return to Dublin in the future, a price crash would suit me. I would only consider returning to Dublin if I could live within 3k's of the centre and I need a decent size garden. Stoneybatter is top of my "sort of realistic" list, as it is very close to the centre and Pheonix Park (my dogs need a lot of exercise), followed by Glasnevin. Both are out of my current price range, especially once stamp-duty is taken into account. Even with TRS (does it still exist?), the lower interest rates and lack of council tax.

If we have children I'd prefer to stay home, so we need a mortgage that's do-able on one salary. As we are relatively young 28 & 29, we could take a longer term mortgage than our current 24/25 years, though I'd rather be able to take a mortgage that is the same lenght overall, so if we bought in 3 years we'd be doing so with a mortgage of 21 years or even less. All of this becomes unlikely if the market is rising in Dublin as currently the type of house I'd like, in a location I'd like is around €600k.

Luckily for me I bought in an undervalued area of London and the market has risen a lot since we bought. We now own about 45% of our house at it's current value (stg£325k) outright. House prices in most of London are expected to rise by at least 30% by 2010, but more so in this area due to it's relative cheapness and huge amount of redevelopment.

What I suspect, and hope for, is that prices here will continue to rise and that in Ireland they will slow down, perhaps dip a little and then rise at a slow rate for the next decade or so. I have no idea after that. I don't know how much of what I believe is based on what suits me and my plans as with that scenario we could return to Dublin with lower repayments and be paid up by 2030-ish. But the Dublin market is insane. It does not have the same supply and demand issues that exist in London. It has crap infastructure, sh!tty roads, pathetic public transport, far fewer public facilities like libraries, swimming pools, gyms and parks as London. You get far, far less for your money. (Yet I think I want to return:(. I guess it's the option of 3rd level education without the crippling debt for my future kids.) There is no good reason for prices to be similar, let alone higher than they are in London, I do believe that something's got to give.

If prices really did crash in Ireland in the next few years we would benefit enormously on a selfish level. The damage to the ecomomy would be of little consequence to us as we don't live there. And a reduction of 30% in a house we want would allow us to buy there without selling up here (or at least buying a cheaper London home further out), which would be my ultimate dream as my husband's work will always involve him spending time in London. So a home in Dublin where we want to live, and one in London where we will sometimes have to live would be fantastic - it's not about investment, but quality of life. But I don't see anything like that happening. At least not to family houses in the centre of Dublin, in the commuter suburbs I think it's a very real possibility. (Probability even?)

I consider myself extremely lucky not to be faced with the buy now or rent and wait dilema in Dublin right now. Though I do wish I bought there 4 years ago, as I could have managed a 3-bed semi in Harolds Cross or Kilmainham back then or an even better house in Stoneybatter or Glasnevin. But I was absolutely convinced there would be a huge crash at any moment so I refused and spent €35k on rent in the intervening time instead.:(

bill_ashmount

iguana wrote:

Are you old or young, single or in a couple, Irish at home, Irish abroad or non-Irish in Ireland? Employed or in college, a parent or living with your parents? Do you own, do you hope to own, do you rent, have you sold, are you a landlord? And do you think prices will continue to rise, drop or level off. And if they do how will you personally be affected.

Young, single and bought a few years ago (2-3). Can currently manage the mortgage with no issues, so am extremely happy. Have no intention of selling or trading up at the moment. I keep an occasional eye on the market purely out of curiosity but actually find it somewhat disheartening by how some people seem to be completly obsessed with it (Both bulls and bears).

The thing that amazes me most is the amount of gloom around. I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot wrong in this country, but in a worldwide context we are incredibly well off (And i don't just mean financially).

Rabies

I'm 27, planned on buying a house this summer or winter. Would have been some where in the midlands.

Changed my mind towards the end of last year. Left my job and Ireland for NZ. Didn't work for a few months and I have spent most of my money but that is what I wanted.

Looking here at the property market, you can get so much more for your money than back home. The downfall is the wages are not as high, so it evens out a bit.

My thoughts lately are to work here for a while more, go back to Ireland at the end of the year to work andsave. Then apply for residency in NZ, and get a nice place here for cheaper.

Some great homes for NZ$300-400k (e150-200k) around here.

cold_filter

Buying hopefully in the next couple of months, seen a house we like in tallaght and it seems like a nice area, my gf is very insistent on buying asap though im a bit more hesitent, we've saved our asses off for the last year, and she is using her SSIA for it aswell and to buy a house and then a few months later for the house to lose 30% in value i would cry a whole lot, though on the + side its near the extension for the luas and city west shopping centre, heres hoping for the boom to go on!!

seamus

I'm 24, and myself and the girlfriend had planned on buying in the Dublin suburbs late last year (in fact we had a deposit on a place at one point). Circumstances have changed dramatically now, so we're not entirely sure what we're going to do now. She's still very eager to buy a home of our own, but accepts my new standpoint of holding off till the early summer to see how the market pans out.

Any kind of mortgage at the moment would put us under some financial strain for 3 or 4 years, though we'll manage. My issue is that I don't want a €300k mortgage now, and end up with a house worth less than that in 4 years' time. The increase in interest rates also means that we're continually seeing our budget squeezed harder and harder for the same property.

I'm personally erring on the side of renting myself for a while (a year or two if needs be). She's technically not working at the moment, so we could use that time to save a bit more cash and stabilise/increase both our personal cashflows. Since she's living at home, that also saves more money.

So clearly a dip/crash in the market would suit us hugely. We're both working in industries where a crash wouldn't have a massive economic impact on us except maybe for slowing/stalling any pay increases. My only problem is that we have families with a fairly substantial amount of money invested in their own properties. While they'd survive any crash, it would be rough going for a while.

warrenaldo

I am 25 years old and saving my ass off- like cold filter was. I cant afford a place in Dublin so I am on the affordable Housing list for SDCC for the past year waiting and waiting and waitng. Very frustrated - I have a decent job. Getting paid decent money. But still cannot get a place of my own. Only hope is this affordable Housing - which judging by my wait so far - looks never ending.

People like bill_ashmount dont realise that for first time buyers at the moment - its extremely dificult. And we dont have much hope. thats why there is so much gloom around.

I have 2 options - rent and wait (for what)
or
Stay at home with parents.

cold_filter

i think who has bought their home in the last 3 years or so is in the same boat, as even after 3 years you might only own a single digit percentage of your house. so a big crash will hurt a lot of people.

My friend and his Gf have an apartment in south dub they bought i for300k its now worth 330-340, they want to sell it and move to a 2 bed terrace (400k)

which is in need to major refurb(100k) so all together they'll probably have a mortgage of 450ish and the area isnt that nice its just close to things, if a crash happens they'll lose 150k on the price of it, crazy and scary

cold_filter

Sorry to keeping going on in this thread, but my friend and his gf got an apartment in the affordable housing thing and its really nice but if a crash happens they'll suffer too, not as much though.
Warrenalso is right, another friend of mine earns about 30k ish a year maybe upto 5k more if he wants a house he'll need to move to wexford and commute up everyday, its impossible to buy by yourself unless you are either earning 50-60k a year or have a hige lump sum

warrenaldo

ye i think its just a matter of waiting on the affordable housing for me - although having already waited a year you can probably understand the frustration people have with it.

im on a little bit more than your friend(40 +) and still it looks like if i wanted to buy it would be wexford for me.
The whole sitation is a bit of a joke. I cant even afford a friggen 1 bed appartment.
And why should I buy a 1 bed appartment. Its like buying a mars bar for €10 - its madness. total rip off.

warrenaldo

warrenaldo wrote:

Its like buying a mars bar for €10 - its madness. total rip off.

Yeah its a total rip off - look at the types of housing being built its all tiny apartments and tiny townhouses for big big prices!! Our parents generation bought proper houses in estates with 20 to 25 year mortgages. Inflation helped them pay the mortgage back.
This is the biggest cartel/rip off/scandal in the history of the state if you ask me

warrenaldo

fully agree.

Noelie

bought this time last year with my g/f, cost 355K and is in stepaside, new units sold recently for 395K so if things stay like they are at the minute we are grand, we could even survive with a 10% fall, but i for one don't really see this happening.

we are making do quite well, we are both 28, I'm only 2 years into my career so my wages should hopefully start to climb to give ourselves a more comfortable life style, we both have some saving which will get us through any tough times ahead, and we both have folks who would be able to help us out if we were to be really stuck.

We've got a 35 year mortgage which was fixed for two years, only one year left of that, if interest rates stay stable for the next 4-5 years and we both stay in employment i think we will be fine

I do think properties are very dear in this country but i can't really see them coming down, I believe that they will stop growing as quickly and we may only see low or perhaps no increases in the short term future. but that is just what i believe, not wanting to divert this thread off course like other are already doing.

Noelie

Noelie wrote:

not wanting to divert this thread off course like other are already doing.

the thread title does ask how we feel about the property market! so its on topic.

I bought 4 years ago - I was young foolish and racing to buy before the price got higher!!
Sold up spring/early summer 2006 I saw the signs and acted on them.
No intention of buying again (if I stay in Ireland) for the foreseeable future.
Currently in Australia sussing out life down under.

Property in Ireland - as we all know - is ridiculously overpriced.
In most if not all new developments the majority of houses are townhouses under 1200 Sq ft. There was a time when developments mainly consisted of 3 bed semi detached house.

In short what we have is a lower standard of housing with a much higher price. Its a disgrace. Wake up people.
I do believe that people are beginning to realise the nonsense that has been going on.

ambro25

Moved to Dublin just over a couple of years ago, with family in tow.

Good position, good pay, good prospects, crash-safe readily-transferable skills.

Found the perfect rent - big semi, with garden, south side, less than 7k to the Green and half of what mortgage would be, friendly landlord who let me have the place totally empty for our own stuff (of which there was/is much).

Used to own in France (100% ownership), had a mortgage in UK (got to 75% ownership at time of sale), now property free, fully liquid with nice appreciation. In joint ownership of family property back in France.

Not looking to buy in Ireland, ever. Whether I stay another year or another 20. Common sense re. property in IE and Dublin especially appears (IMHO) to have gone out the window years ago, even before I got here - half a million €s at least (proba. €600 by now) for the kind of semi I live in is, any which way you look at it, absolutely mental. No matter whether you have to financially stretch for it or not: it just is not worth it - in terms of value for money as a buyer for living in, or in terms of risk as an investor for capitalising.

tHE vAGGABOND

I’m in the market to buy somewhere right now and have been looking at places for a short while. I'm hoping to buy an apartment in central Dublin soon. I don’t drive, and my mates live all over the shop, so I need to be central. When I buy I’m aiming to live there for a while, so a short term downturn is no concern for me.

I returned from a good while living in London about 5 or 6 months ago. I need to get out of home and get back into my own place. After living away from home for 7 or 8 years it’s not easy being back home sometimes. I’m lucky that I’m totally debt free atm, so any short term increases in interest rates is not a huge issue.

I don’t think we will have some dramatic property crash tbh. As someone actively looking at places right now, there is a big demand for *good* places. I looked at a nice place near Christchurch last Tuesday [380k]; it was gone the next day. On Saturday I looked at a fantastic house in Tallaght [420k], and it was sale agreed later that same day. Now if a place is a dump, it may take longer to sell and the price may have to drop to sell it but that’s not a crash or a downturn, that’s people becoming educated that builders got away with bloody murder in the 80's and 90's and built dumps and that you can find good modern places with space and facilities if you hunt around

But even if there were a crash [which, again, I don’t think there will be], I don’t think it will effect a modern decent sized apartment in the center of Dublin [where I want to buy]. I think people will always want to live in Central Dublin, regardless of what is going on in the world, and regardless of how bad things get. I think where it would hit is places in the commuter belt, places like Lucan [and beyond] where there were a gigantic amount of houses for sale over the last number of years and then indeed apartment’s in regional towns like Sligo which have sold over the last number of years with Sandyford prices.

scaldybelt

Married, both early thirties, with a newborn.
Moving back home from UK, house sale going through there, will be renting for the next year - by choice - to see how the market pans out before buying.

Will be living (renting) near a commuter town as we prefer the country and commuting has never bothered us. (Always reckoned that quality of life is better where the air is fresh, the view has little concrete and the neighbours aren't on the other side of your sittingroom/bedroom wall.)

Have a perm job secured in the outskirts of Dublin and if prices don't soar (unlikely from all that I read recently alongside recent major job losses) then we can easily afford the house we want.

However, if in 12+ months the prices have dropped in the outlying commuter towns, then we will be in a far better situation. I suspect that even if prices don't fall dramatically, there will probably be more houses to choose from.

....in the meantime, our rent for a property similar to what we would buy is less than half our affordable mortgage.

Worst case scenario - I lose my job; then it just means earning more - but commuting by airplane:( .

scaldybelt

Ignore my Mad Smilie at the top of my post - I'm all

ronbyrne2005

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

I’m in the market to buy somewhere right now and have been looking at places for a short while. I'm hoping to buy an apartment in central Dublin soon. I don’t drive, and my mates live all over the shop, so I need to be central. When I buy I’m aiming to live there for a while, so a short term downturn is no concern for me.

I returned from a good while living in London about 5 or 6 months ago. I need to get out of home and get back into my own place. After living away from home for 7 or 8 years it’s not easy being back home sometimes. I’m lucky that I’m totally debt free atm, so any short term increases in interest rates is not a huge issue.

I don’t think we will have some dramatic property crash tbh. As someone actively looking at places right now, there is a big demand for *good* places. I looked at a nice place near Christchurch last Tuesday [380k]; it was gone the next day. On Saturday I looked at a fantastic house in Tallaght [420k], and it was sale agreed later that same day. Now if a place is a dump, it may take longer to sell and the price may have to drop to sell it but that’s not a crash or a downturn, that’s people becoming educated that builders got away with bloody murder in the 80's and 90's and built dumps and that you can find good modern places with space and facilities if you hunt around

But even if there were a crash [which, again, I don’t think there will be], I don’t think it will effect a modern decent sized apartment in the center of Dublin [where I want to buy]. I think people will always want to live in Central Dublin, regardless of what is going on in the world, and regardless of how bad things get. I think where it would hit is places in the commuter belt, places like Lucan [and beyond] where there were a gigantic amount of houses for sale over the last number of years and then indeed apartment’s in regional towns like Sligo which have sold over the last number of years with Sandyford prices.

Well according to DAFT report for last 6months of 2006 asking prices for one and two beds in city centre dropped by 25k. Maybe waiting another year or two will see even greater drops.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52714418&postcount=434

tHE vAGGABOND

No one is saying things are still growing at 20% pa, thank the lord things are slowing down! Slow down ftw!

But you cant forget that there was feck all happening in late Q3 and most of Q4 2006, as everyone waited to see what would happen to stamp duty in the December Budget. Pretty much the entire country thought he would do something with stamp duty, right up to the last week before the budget when word started coming out that he would not touch it...

Having actually looked a fair few city center apartments now, the ones that are not selling are the tiny places built in the 80's and 90's which are tiny and with no outside space etc. There are also a fair amount of 1 bed places in and around dublin, which banks dont want to lend you money to buy and which seem to therefore hang around the marker for a while

ronbyrne2005

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

No one is saying things are still growing at 20% pa, thank the lord things are slowing down! Slow down ftw!

But you cant forget that there was feck all happening in late Q3 and most of Q4 2006, as everyone waited to see what would happen to stamp duty in the December Budget. Pretty much the entire country thought he would do something with stamp duty, right up to the last week before the budget when word started coming out that he would not touch it...

Having actually looked a fair few city center apartments now, the ones that are not selling are the tiny places built in the 80's and 90's which are tiny and with no outside space etc. There are also a fair amount of 1 bed places in and around dublin, which banks dont want to lend you money to buy and which seem to therefore hang around the marker for a while

Apartments still seem to be falling from what i've observed or at least theres loads for sale on daft and myhome. Theres so many apartments being built in Dublin that theres bound to be an oversupply if not now then over next few years and prices will continue to fall.
My friend bought a one bed apartment in Dublin7 around 2.5 years ago and at same time another friend bought a small ex-council house in Dublin7. Both paid around 250-270k but now the one bed aprtment is for sale for only 290k while the house sold last august for 425k. The point is apartments have'nt risen by any where near the same amount as houses and are now starting to fall due to massive numbers being built.

cold_filter

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

My friend bought a one bed apartment in Dublin7 around 2.5 years ago and at same time another friend bought a small ex-council house in Dublin7. Both paid around 250-270k but now the one bed aprtment is for sale for only 290k while the house sold last august for 425k. The point is apartments have'nt risen by any where near the same amount as houses and are now starting to fall due to massive numbers being built.

Agree witht this statement, obviously as you can go up with apartments you can build more of them so in the next few years apartments will be cheaper as there wil be som many of them. then as houses are relatively becoming a smaller proportion of the housing market their price will increase

tHE vAGGABOND

I do see what your saying, and there is logic there.

But dont forget that banks dont want to lend people money for 1 bed places. I have 4 banks offering me a very healthy amount to buy a 2 or 3 bed place [via broker], they would only offer me a tiny fraction of that for a 1 bed place [and only 1 or 2 of them would offer me anything for a 1 bed place].

Paulw

I bought a 3 bed apt in Nov 2005 for 280k.

My neighbour below sold theirs about 6 months ago for 360k.

My repayments are ok. I'm living alone right now.

I'm not overly concerned about the market taking a slowdown or even a bit of a downturn.

It won't effect me since I have no where else to go, and I'm happy enough with what I have. :rolleyes:

dame

Couple, 20's, one child, two houses, one apartment. First house bought 9 years ago, second one 4 years ago, apartment two years ago. Not too worried about crash - all are in areas where there will always be demand and they were bought at good prices and fixed up (houses), apartment bought off plan and worth a lot more now even though it's still not finished. Could afford for everything to fall by a lot without us losing money on them overall, but obviously would prefer if they stay stable or don't fall at all!

Sponge Bob

Paulw wrote:

It won't effect me since I have no where else to go

That describes my situation too, I am left with a strangely illiquid €800k asset as it cannot be replaced with anything decent so I may as well stay in it.

You may take it that if I could sell it for €800k and buy it back some time later for €500k then I would sell it.

My problem is in buying back in , thats difficult where I live .

copacetic

bought my apt in south dublin in summer 05, conservatively worth about 25% more than I paid for it. Not worried about prices really because the location seems likely to hold out better than most and don't believe 25% fall is likely anyway..

godtabh

I'm just 25.

left college got a job and rather than go the Oz with my mates I saved up for a deposit and started looking for a place this time last year. Bought a place of plans in March of last year and should be moving in, in the next week or two.

The house market will go up and down. if I was an investor I would be ****ting myself. But if its your home and your there long time I dont think you have anything to worry about.

My apartment went up €20k in two weeks ( two phases of same blocks released at different dates) so either way over the long time I should have a soft landing if anything happens

rick_fantastic

23 male, single, working full time, masters part-time.

in process of buying house south dublin. deposit down and waiting on results of survey on the property before i sign contracts.

borrowing a large amount of money so im a little worried bout the financial implications (ie 50k negative to pay stamp and refurbish)

going to live in and rent out the rest of it. ex council house 5mins from dundrum.

musiknonstop

Early thirties, reasonable wage, renting with strangers for the last 10 years and tired of it. I've been on the affordable housing lists for SDCC and DLR for over a year now, and don't hold out much hope there. For a laugh I applied for a mortgage late last year and was offered 230K over 37 years. No thanks.

I'm looking into moving abroad now, as I don't see my future in Dublin (or Ireland for that matter).

alienhead

30, bought 4 bed house with a mate 2 years ago for 317,500.

prob worth around the 400k mark now.

rented for 5 years prior to this, so just happy i'm not renting, and living somewhere i'd like to live, rather than some town miles away from anything.

will prob stay in current house for another 3 years, then sell up and get our own houses.

can't see us making a killing like people who bought, say 5+ years ago, but not too bothered, as long as we get a decent enough return.

bico

Iguana

I wouldn’t wait too long to purchase you dream ( redbrick terrace I guess) in an area like Stoneybatter or Glasnevin , as I doubt that prices for properties like these are likely to fall by much, if at all.
As pointed out correctly the stock of these houses are limited in an area where densities are on the increase .
DIT is building a new campus on the former Grangegorman hospital site ,which will mean demand from academics and students alike .
The new metro line linking the airport with the city will go through these suburbs , which will make it a desirable location for people like yourselves who need to commute between countries on a regular basis.
The value of properties in the area are very reasonable compared to the location ,an equal distance from town to the south in suburbs, like Ranelagh or Donnybrook , where you’ll pay double the price for a similar house.
Another factor to keep in mind is that the Dublin Development plan and new legislation on the size of apartments and sustainable development will increase the cost of new built properties substantially , so the chance of new homes being flogged on the market at cut prices are not likely . What’s more likely to happen is that developers will stop building houses.

Regarding my own situation ,I bought a one bed apartment in the centre at the end of 2005 and am feeling the increase in interest rates. However similar units in the next phase are now selling for 20% more . I worked out that if I decided at the time to rent the apartment instead and save the difference between the rent and mortgage payments with managemen t costs It would have taken me another 23 years of saving to make up the 20% increase in one year. That is if everything stayed as is.
OK , I have to find ways to sleep at night !

godtabh

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

I do see what your saying, and there is logic there.

But dont forget that banks dont want to lend people money for 1 bed places. I have 4 banks offering me a very healthy amount to buy a 2 or 3 bed place [via broker], they would only offer me a tiny fraction of that for a 1 bed place [and only 1 or 2 of them would offer me anything for a 1 bed place].

I got finance on what I could afford rather than what I was buying.

I bought a one bed.

copacetic

kearnsr wrote:

I got fiance on what I could afford rather than what I was buying.

I bought a one bed.

i suppose u only needed the one bed what with buying a fiancé and all.
how much did u spend on him?

Zambia

rick_fantastic wrote:

23 male, single, working full time, masters part-time.

in process of buying house south dublin. deposit down and waiting on results of survey on the property before i sign contracts.

borrowing a large amount of money so im a little worried bout the financial implications (ie 50k negative to pay stamp and refurbish)

going to live in and rent out the rest of it. ex council house 5mins from dundrum.

By any chance did you have a whole thread about this last year? about 500,000 for a house in dundrum ?

CannonBalls for balls my good man hope it works out I personnally would be sceptical but Dundrum has a lot going for it.

Do-more

42, Married, 3 yo and newborn. Bought an apartment in Mullingar in 1990 and sold for 3 times the initial price in 1998, it's gone up another three fold since then.

Bought a serviced site in a development in 2001 and self-built a nice 5 bed detached for €230,000 all in. Could never afford to buy at today's prices. On paper our home is supposedly worth €500,000-€550,000.

From the point of view of house prices I'm not worried about a crash, but I am very worried about it's effects on the Irish economy. From where I'm sitting this country's future certainly doesn't appear rosy. As it is, even without a large mortgage, we need two incomes to get by in this rip-off republic, if either or both of us were made redundant we would be in serious trouble making ends meet.

For my part I'm off to Germany for a week in March to work on the contingency plan. Depending on how that goes we will either sell here and move or more likely I will commute every other week.

Kipperhell

Married no kids double income early thrities
Bought our first house 6 years ago in an area we felt would rise faster than the average market. It did. Bought our second selling our first moving from 10% equity on purchase to selling at 36% equity. Bought 2nd house with a 23% equity 2.5 years later, with estimated price 20% asking prices on my road (2 for sale on this road) we have equity of 36% with actual asking price it would be 49%.
Our mortgage is 19% of our income which has gone up from 16% in the 6 years but our salaries have also gone up. No need for expensive cars and high fuel bills due to location. Small car and relience on cycling and public transport. Very well serviced area with gyms,pools,shops,cinemas, schools,transport etc...
More room than we need in the house and great rental potential if needed and possibility to extend.
We couldn't afford to buy our first house now if we were starting out again and could never dream of having this house. I feel sorry for younger people for their more limited choices but I also think expectations are higher than need. We were/are lucky and other people are expecting luck rather than their needs to be met.
By us lowering our expectation when we first bought we were able to move on friends who bought bigger houses further away have less equity and more expenses along with much higher commute times. Their better value houses have proved in the long term to be much much more costly.
As for a crash we are again luck that we could weather some pretty drastic prices drops. I would rather not see it happen and really don't see it being as extreme as many are predicting. It is unlikely to effect our property to the extent it will effect others as it has so much going for it. There are many people who want a crash for personal reasons but I don't think they really understand what impact it will have on them and the general economy.

Bluehair

Turned 31 last year and getting married this year, bought about 1999 and sold last year to return to renting. Well over a six figure sum in the bank as a result (won't say exactly how much). The 'Speculation Nation' will ruin the country and destroy the economy. Despite the 'boom' years we have appauling infrastucture, policing, health care and education systems. Real shame but we are actively exploring other places to live as a result. Ireland will shortly replace Japan as the definitive example of a Property Bubble/Irrational Exuberance and will retain that title for decades. The last decade was utterly wasted by the government.

godtabh

daveym wrote:

i suppose u only needed the one bed what with buying a fiancé and all.
how much did u spend on him?

Sorry I meant to say finance and if I did have a fiance it would a her

chump

Mid 20's. With gf. Renting 1 bed city centre.
Started career job recently. In 2-3 years both will be on good wage, with good prospects (pray gawd) - not interested in buying or considering buying property until then.

copacetic

kearnsr wrote:

Sorry I meant to say finance and if I did have a fiance it would a her

yeah i know, but it didn't work if i added the extra e!

MisterAnarchy

I have a 3 storey terraced home which I bought when I just finished college about 8 years ago.
I just got in on time.
Buying a new house these days is utter insanity .
Half of them are shoe boxes.
This sums it up nicely
In a country that is 4 percent urbanised, compared with 12 percent in France and 20 percent in Italy, a small number are making huge killings from the artificial supply restrictions on land for development.
Irish new house sizes are, at an average of 945 square feet (88 square meters), among the smallest in Europe.
The average size of new houses in Denmark is 1,475 square feet (137 meters). The majority of new houses built in France are detached.
While there is enough land rezoned for the equivalent of 5 years housing output, our sclerotic centrally controlled local government system, gives no incentive for local authorities to compete for an increasing population. In contrast, in decentralised Switzerland and Germany, real house prices have not increased since 1970.
More than 17 per cent of the private non-farm workforce are in construction. The total rises to 20 percent when jobs in services related to construction are added. The corresponding proportions for the UK and US are 7 per cent and 5.4 per cent respectively.
Emperors new clothes syndrome.

Uuuh Patsy

3 Bed Semi in Citywest; bought in 03 @ 285k. Moving to Oz early next year so I'm completely obsessed with the property market at the moment. Trying to maximise equity. So many balls to juggle. Watching Luas line, surrounding developments; McDowells big gob. Not sure to sell in Aug or wait until early next year...... Such problems

copacetic

Uuuh Patsy wrote:

3 Bed Semi in Citywest; bought in 03 @ 285k. Moving to Oz early next year so I'm completely obsessed with the property market at the moment. Trying to maximise equity. So many balls to juggle. Watching Luas line, surrounding developments; McDowells big gob. Not sure to sell in Aug or wait until early next year...... Such problems

yeah, looks like McDowell has guranteed that the property market will struggle even more this year with his new pronouncements on stamp duty. He could have single handedly turned a soft landing into a crash with his big gob in the last year..

tHE vAGGABOND

Despite the 'boom' years we have appalling infrastructure, policing, health care and education systems.

I'm sorry, but thats such complete reactionary bull****..

Our education system is one of the best in the world, at every level IMHO - and IMHO thats one of the reasons we have so many hi-tech computer and pharmacy companies, our well educated and flexible work force, at entry level and minimum wage level as well as further up the food chain..

While parts of our infrastructure may be busy or full, if you ventured beyond the M50 you will have seen the many millions spent at every corner of the country by-passing congestion points and improving old/bad roads. The rail network is not amazing, but its a damn sight better than 5 or 10 years ago IMHO.

Again our health care system is far from perfect, but there are far worse systems across Europe. I lived in the UK for many years, and I would rather be a private patient here than suffer at the hands of the NHS in the UK tbh

Calina

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

I'm sorry, but thats such complete reactionary bull****..

Our education system is one of the best in the world, at every level IMHO - and IMHO thats one of the reasons we have so many hi-tech computer and pharmacy companies, our well educated and flexible work force, at entry level and minimum wage level as well as further up the food chain..

While parts of our infrastructure may be busy or full, if you ventured beyond the M50 you will have seen the many millions spent at every corner of the country by-passing congestion points and improving old/bad roads. The rail network is not amazing, but its a damn sight better than 5 or 10 years ago IMHO.

Again our health care system is far from perfect, but there are far worse systems across Europe. I lived in the UK for many years, and I would rather be a private patient here than suffer at the hands of the NHS in the UK tbh

I'm sorry, I'm not entirely sure I agree entirely with you.

Our education system is falling behind. We are incapable of funding schools correctly, our skills in maths and science are sliding, and our literacy counts are not in the top echelon. Additionally, not one of our universities is top flight on a world level. It may be your honest opinion that it's one of the best, but in truth, from a quality point of view it's standing still rather than moving forward. Our attitude to education is a bit tragic too - our young people aren't as attached to learning and getting by on it as they were 10 years ago - I guess 5% unemployment does that to you, in the same way as 17% unemployment has a slightly different effect.

As for our health system - well I've lived in France, Germany, Belgium, the UK and Ireland, and I'd prefer to be a public patient in France than a private patient anywhere else. It is unfair, incidentally, to compare private care in Ireland with public care in the UK, but even so...there's a lot we could do to improve things here.

As for infrastructure - I don't care how much money we've spent already, the truth is we still have a lot more to spend. If you compare our infrastructure to that of countries like Belgium and France, you'll know it's still in the slow lane, comparatively speaking. The fact that it's better than it used to be doesn't make it somehow good.

Gurgle

Housing situation:
Married, 31, 2 kids & 3rd on the way.
Bought a 3-bed in commuter-land 8 years ago at £107,000 (have never commuted btw, and no plans to do so) amid much yapping about how house prices couldn't continue to rise and were heading for a crash.

We looked briefly into trading up to a 4-bed house to accomodate the new arrival. Very quickly abandoned that plan and are now planning to extend.

We could trade up to a 4 bed for around €60k with what we would get for our house.
Then add €22.2k for stamp duty, €3k for the auctioneer to sell our house, €2k for solicitors and we would have spend €87k for a slightly bigger house with a second box bedroom, before we even started furnishing.

Screw that, the same €87k will build on a second living room, a conservatory/sun-room and 2 more bedrooms, and furnish the lot.

As for the property market - If the value of my house doubles again or drops by 50% it makes little difference to me. Interest rate rises so far aren't making much of an impact on my mortgage repayments either.

If the construction boom is over, we'll probably save a bit on building the extension.

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

Our education system is one of the best in the world, at every level IMHO - and IMHO thats one of the reasons we have so many hi-tech computer and pharmacy companies, our well educated and flexible work force, at entry level and minimum wage level as well as further up the food chain.

Fully agree with this.
Our literacy rate is one of the highest in the world at 99% (linkey)
The only thing our economy is missing are a few home-grown international corporations.

Calina

Gurgle wrote:

Our literacy rate is one of the highest in the world at 99% (linkey)

Alternatively see this from the Oireachtas. PDF warning where our adult literacy rates leave something to be desired.

tHE vAGGABOND

Cailan - I'm not saying we are perfect. We have room to get better everywhere..

I think our transport infracture is 10 years behind where it should be, country wide, but I like the fact they are spending money on it, and making an effort to bring it up to speed.

Maybe I'm too nice or something, but to expect our schools and uni's to be the best in the world may be a bit unfair? We are, after all, a country of circa 4 million people - I'm sure some of the Uni's at the top of this list have literally hundreds of thousands of people on their books, and in turn rather more money to spend than our top uni's.

You will find maths and science rates are falling all over the western world. The UK govt are having a fit about it, and have some committee with top folks looking into why [*I will find link*] - It must be linked to the fact that kids have it quite easy these days, not like in our day ;P

I too have lived in a few places, and as an epilepsy suffer, have been inside a fair amount of them. The best hospitals I have been in are in the states, but then again, the worst I have been in are also in the states too! I'm happy they are not afraid to make hard choices here [re: childrends hospital - 10 years ago thats something that would have been dodged until after the election and then sidelined forever - I don't know *anything* about the in's and outs of the choice, so don't bring thread off course on this one subject. Im just making the point that we are finally making hard choices]

re: thread subject...

I have found somewhere I would like to make an offer on. I want to show it to my family, so to get a second set of opinions. But now of course the bloody agent has gone to ground and everyone in his office is too busy to show it to use for several days. If he is playing games, he can keep his apartment, I wonder if the owner knows he is basically refusing to sell it

Raskolnikov

Calina wrote:

Our education system is falling behind.

Falling behind? What are you on about? Classes sizes are falling on average, schools are getting more teachers and funding than ever, there is huge investment in third level education.

I was educated in primary school in a class of 34 with three different years in the same room. In secondry school, our class size was frequently 32+, we didn't even have computers or science labs.

Calina wrote:

our skills in maths and science are sliding, and our literacy counts are not in the top echelon.

Our skills in maths and science aren't "sliding", just because no one wants to do the subjects. As for literacy rates? There's always going to be a proportion of people in the country who are unable/can't be bothered to learn how to read. The important thing in a competitive economy is getting skilled graduates in key areas. According the the IDA, we have the best record in the world at getting people into tertiary education. Obviously, there is a degree of propaganda in that. My point still stands though. Education is always going to be tiered. Everyone in the country can't work in IT or making pharmaceuticals.

http://www.idaireland.com/home/index.aspx?id=97

Calina wrote:

Additionally, not one of our universities is top flight on a world level.

Top flight of what exactly?

Calina wrote:

Our attitude to education is a bit tragic too - our young people aren't as attached to learning and getting by on it as they were 10 years ago - I guess 5% unemployment does that to you, in the same way as 17% unemployment has a slightly different effect.

I agree with you on this though, maybe for a different reason than you though. Education is becoming devalued these days in an attempt to churn out more graduates.

iguana

daveym wrote:

yeah, looks like McDowell has guranteed that the property market will struggle even more this year with his new pronouncements on stamp duty. He could have single handedly turned a soft landing into a crash with his big gob in the last year..

What is he saying about stamp duty? I don't live in Ireland and strangely McDowell doesn't make it onto the news here much.

copacetic

iguana wrote:

What is he saying about stamp duty? I don't live in Ireland and strangely McDowell doesn't make it onto the news here much.

he is saying if the PDs get voted back they will abolish it for first time buyers and reduce it for everyone else (or close to that can't remember the exact wording). It would save a lot of money if this happened for a lot of people so any FTBs waiting to see what happens in the market are even more likely to wait to see who wins the election and if PD/FF get back in to wait until Dec to see if they actually do anything on stamp duty.

of course maybe it won't have much effect, surely most people will know that them being back in government is unlikely. If they do get back they usually don't follow through on their promises, and even if they do try to keep their promise FF won't agree anyway...