All you techies, who fix/install PC's for your relatives/neighboors

DaSilva

I just came today from a neighbour asking to fix their computer. Basically the task is enormous since the previous techie left the computer fully at the owners feet. It was infested with malware of all sorts, and crappy software that fudges with everything.

I told them without an internet connection (they have BB, but the connection from pc -> modem is borked, and I couldn't find out why, despite hours of attempts), it would take hours, and the best and fastest way would be too backup things they need to a CD, and format. They didn't want this, as they were afraid they would forget to backup some things etc, so I told them sorry and left.

The reason it got this bad. Whoever set this up, perhaps it was a shop, or somebody else they knew, left them all with administrator accounts, even the 10year old, had an admin account on the computer.

If people aren't good enough with a computer to set it up when they get a new one, then they aren't to be trusted with an administrator account.

Try to set-up their pc so that its difficult to fudge.

Do a blank install of their OS, if it's a new system that comes with vendor bloatware / craplications.

Make one Administrator account that is password protected, give them the password, and tell them to only use it if they need it, perhaps for installation of some software.

Create user accounts for them, if they want more than one, but make sure they are not administrator privileged.

Install some freeware AV, firewall, spyware programs. Set them to do scans and automatic updates frequently.

Leave system restore on.

Have windows update on automatic installation.

Install for them all the apps you imagine they will need.

Tell them to be careful, not to install anything they don't really need. That any website telling them they have a problem with the computer is probably not true and to ignore it.

I can't think of any more at the moment.

astrofool

The big problem has been that pre-Vista, Windows was useless at working with non admin users, leading to alot of user frustration.

KdjaCL

I would have fixed the above pc in an hour and saved all the files, and had a fresh install with a few programs on it.

Why are you getting upset over people not looking after their windows? Once you done and its working well your job is done. Your there to fix it not teach the ignorant.

Clicking "free porn" "your pc is fecked" is bad, then leave with your payment


kdjac

DaSilva

KdjaCL wrote:

I would have fixed the above pc in an hour and saved all the files, and had a fresh install with a few programs on it.

How would you have fixed the problem?

The problem was "the internet wont work", I found out that the network card wasn't communicating at all with the modem.

It wouldn't DHCP an address, and a manually configured settings still wouldnt see the modem.

I turned off all services, and apps they had running in the background that might have been having a bad effect. Checked the power settings of the card, and advanced settings, (duplex mode etc).

Tested different cables, did a million different things I cant remember right anymore.

They wouldn't let me format / reinstall.

System restore had been disabled.

Each account when logged on would through up tons of errors of all different software.

There was no anti-virus or spyware apps.

Redisle

Did you try resetting the broadband modem? i fixed a pc with the exact same problem last week and i did everthing i could think of on the pc and i was about to give up but then i just plugged out and in the modem then bang it worked straight off!

DaSilva

ab_cork wrote:

Did you try resetting the broadband modem? i fixed a pc with the exact same problem last week and i did everthing i could think of on the pc and i was about to give up but then i just plugged out and in the modem then bang it worked straight off!

The modem was fine, it worked with the daughters laptop, and I checked settings just incase.

KdjaCL

How would you have fixed the problem?

Step 1: Find all user created files , save them to USB HD.

Step 2: Insert Nlite Xp , sit back have a cup of tea.

Step 3: Resetup net if network card not working, inform them they need a new one.

Step 4: leave with money.

/I rarely visit the pc (only mates get that service and they provide beer ), the pc comes to me. if the network card was fubared i would have replaced it and added to the price.

What i wouldnt tell them is what not to do, user accounts, avoid this that etc: Not my problem really and may as well tlak tot he wall. They get Xp Pro Corp firefox AVG adaware and every windows update up to wednesday just gone.

BTW the problem is an XP issue theres a KB article for it where Xp dumbs out and only works with DHCP off and assigned Ips, the Ipa nd gateway show up as crazy numbers.

kdjac

DaSilva

DaSilva wrote:

the best and fastest way would be too backup things they need to a CD, and format. They didn't want this, as they were afraid they would forget to backup some things etc,

KdjaCL wrote:

Step 1: Find all user created files , save them to USB HD.

They didn't want me too mess with the system at all, they wanted it exactly as it is now, but with the internet working for them again.

KdjaCL wrote:

BTW the problem is an XP issue theres a KB article for it where Xp dumbs out and only works with DHCP off and assigned Ips, the Ipa nd gateway show up as crazy numbers.

Without knowing exactly which article I can't be sure, but this doesn't sound like the problem at all, as trying assigned IP's and settings was one of the first things I tried.

I like your enthusiasm, but you're just coming across arrogant now.

Redisle

Did you try fixing the winsock stack?

Also Kdjacl would anyone question you regarding whether or not the software you were installing was legitimate? you said you would install xp corp not their own xp.. some people are very conscious/scared about illegal software

KdjaCL

ab_cork wrote:

Did you try fixing the winsock stack?

Also Kdjacl would anyone question you regarding whether or not the software you were installing was legitimate? you said you would install xp corp not their own xp.. some people are very conscious/scared about illegal software

I own 10 Xp Corps with 100 user licences per cd key. If they want their own MCE, Home version etc: i have that but i have to enter the Cd key on the side of the pc into windows after install, mine installs with a generic one.

I like your enthusiasm, but you're just coming across arrogant now.

Not arrogant just efficent, you seem to care what people do with the pcs to get them into the state they are in, i dont i fix it get paid and leave. Your thread title suggests advice to people who do this for a living yet your post was full of knowing arrogance, i just said i would have fixed it quickly and be done with it.

If only i could find a way round the damn length of install time for Xp even with Nlites unattended options its 20 minutes too long.

Btw i charge €50 for fixing it (easy ones dont req reinstall), €100 for their own MCE,Home back on it, €150 for my Xp on it and any hardware replaced is extra.

What do you charge ?

kdjac

DaSilva

KdjaCL wrote:

What do you charge ?

Nothing, I don't do it as a job, it was a favour. The thread wasn't aimed at people who do it as a job or for cash, but more for us who are now the family's 24/7/365 Tech support.

People who do it as a job would probably not want to do what I advised because then they will have less future jobs. It's more a case of making your sisters laptop more robust against her accidental feck ups.

KdjaCL wrote:

Not arrogant just efficent, you seem to care what people do with the pcs to get them into the state they are in

Ofcourse I do, I do this as favours for friends and families, occasionally they will give me some cash or a pint or whatever. By making it harder to destroy, it means they have a happier time with their computer, and I have to spend less time fixing it.

kaizersoze

KdjaCL wrote:

I rarely visit the pc

Ditto for me. Only in exceptional circumstances.

DaSilva wrote:

I have to spend less time fixing it.

If you did it for a living, that opinion would change.;)
It doesn't matter what you explain to people. It just goes in one ear and out the other. Even more so if there's more than one user on the machine.
The only sure fire way is to get them to ring you each time they turn it on so you can call around and sit beside them.:)

DaSilva

kaizersoze wrote:

If you did it for a living, that opinion would change.;)
It doesn't matter what you explain to people. It just goes in one ear and out the other. Even more so if there's more than one user on the machine.
The only sure fire way is to get them to ring you each time they turn it on so you can call around and sit beside them.:)

Okay, well I'm not going to get into the morality of it, but if that's the case, then this thread aint directed at you.

I know it isn't spelled out in the perfectly in the title, just hinted at(usually enough for most people), but this isn't for the carsalesman-professional-tech-support people, but more for people who are doing this for their friends / relatives, which is a very common thing.

mick.fr

KdjaCL wrote:

I own 10 Xp Corps with 100 user licences per cd key. If they want their own MCE, Home version etc: i have that but i have to enter the Cd key on the side of the pc into windows after install, mine installs with a generic one.

Does not exist !
Windows XP/Vista/2000... (Clients) are not part of any Select/Open contract.
MS only sale client OS through retail or OEM.

The client CD you have got with a Select/Open subscription are for upgrades only !

You can technically install a Select/Open client OS on a new machine without any OS and using a generic company Windows XP Key but you are more than exposing yourself and your client to some really serious troubles.

DonkeyStyle \o/

DaSilva wrote:

They didn't want this, as they were afraid they would forget to backup some things etc, so I told them sorry and left.

Fair play to you.
I'm of the opinion that once you're compromised; you're compromised and that's it, you can never be truly clean... it's format-land for you... better luck next time.
If they really expect you to sit down for hours weeding out all the crap (which is just píssing into the wind IMO), you should tell them you're charging by the hour... see how quickly they change their tune then.
I'd have done the same, except just tell them to backup their data on their own time and call you back when they're ready to proceed.

I'm with you on the educating front, a little goes a long way (don't use IE unless you 100% have to, get a firewall & ad/popup blocker, don't open attachments, you're getting 90% less crap right there).
But I've also encountered the stubborn people who just don't want to know, aren't interested in the technology, have no desire to learn new behaviour no matter how much it benefits them... people who've had their PCs for years and still know as little about them as the day they bought them.
You do what you can for them software-wise, but so much of this stuff is related to their behaviour.

I definitely know where you're coming from though... the people who think they deserve a cheapie/freebie from you because they know you somehow through somebody.
Of course you want to keep these people with a working PC for the longest possible duration (which is a bit ironic considering how little they value your time and effort)... there are some people you simply don't want repeat "business" from.

The other method is of course to shrug your shoulders and play dumb... they won't come running to you again if you're not as capable as they thought
Unfortunately my weakness is that I can never resort to this and see every b0rked PC as a challenge and a patient... often giving people far more than their moneys-worth just because I get a bit obsessive and start taking a bit too much pride in my work.

You can be your own worst enemy when it comes to this stuff... if you make your time worth nothing, people will treat it like it's nothing and expect all kinds of stupid things.
As favours go, I'd give the first 20 minutes for free... beyond that, it's not a simple problem and will probably end up taking hours... at that point throw your hat at it unless they want to start paying you an agreed amount for your time.

Honestly, they wouldn't expect their electrician or plumber friend to spend hours working at their house, then drop them a price of a pint. :rolleyes:
Of course the problem here is that electricians are qualified and the industry is regulated, people know roughly what your time is worth and how long something should probably take... PC repairs is a massive grey area with people ranging in skill/knowledge from "just about barely have a clue how to use my own" to "pff, the viruses I write are way better than this..." and beyond.
Most freebie-seekers don't have much to judge you on... whether the job will take hours because it's a bitch of a problem, a tremendously long-winded process, or just that it takes you hours due to your own ineptitude... they have no real way of knowing and conveniently lean towards the latter.

I think communication is the key, give them the 20 minutes free, figure out what the problem is, what the solution should be, how long it should take... name your price, then put it on the table for them... take it or leave it.
It'd cut out a lot of this "oh but I want it done this way" shíte when you can tell them (or imply) how much extra their way will cost.

I'm finished with it personally... the only people who get full multi-hour freebies from me now are my immediate family... everyone else betta' recognise (etc.).

steveland?

Why not just explain to them that their computer is borked, backup every file you can find onto a large hard drive, make sure you have the licence keys for all purchased software they have and then tell them that you're going to have to format it or it's not going to work again.

If they agree to you reformatting it, reformat and put a large enough partition on it so that they can keep their important files on that partition and then install Windows on a seperate partition. If they get borked again then you can reinstall Windows on the partition while keeping their old files on the seperate partition. This way they'll think (you actually are) you're doing them a huge favour and they're happy bunnies...

mick.fr

I did a few fixes like that for some people around my area.
When they had shiload of viruses, spyware etc, I was simply explaining them it was impossible to clean the PC, and that a clean installation was necessary.

I was using a USB hard drive, backed up everything (Personnal docs, emails, bookmarks...) and then resintalled Windows from scratch with a proper format.
Then I was encouraging them to use Firefox, provided them some free AV and Anti Spyware as well, names already given here.

Once a lady called me because she had a ****load of spywares and her PC was acting strange.
After a few minutes spent on the PC I actually found hundreds of know spywares, I was suspecting the 12 years old son to browse some non-catholic websites, but after a few more minutes I actually discovered that everything came from the husband profile. I checked the Internet Explorer history and discovered than the husband actually used to browse lots of porn websites lol.
So just told them needs needs to be reinstalled, I did it, and when I left, I said to the husband to be careful with website browsing. I did not say anything of course.
That was fun.

_Kaiser_

I do a lot of this type of thing for friends/family/friends of family.

Very rarely do I go to a PC, for the simple reason that most of the time, it turns out I needed something from home or their internet connection is slow/knackered etc.

Depending what the problem is, it may be easy to fix it fairly quickly, but if I estimate it'll take more than 20/30 mins, it's format and reload time (most of the time the kids have installed so much crap it's the best way anyway).

Before I do anything though, I tell them to move/check everything they want to keep (documents, pictures etc) to My Documents as I take no responsibility for any data loss (blame my years in tech support for that one but it works!). I'll then backup that data (plus favorites etc) to a USB hard drive.

For a full "standard" reload and and reinstallation/update of software, I generally charge around €75, with any hardware replacements/installation extra. Of course, some people get freebies, but generally because they help me out with other stuff too.

I'll also give some tips and advice on best practises, useful links etc, but I don't do tutorials (again my tech support days coming through). It's just not worth the hassle most of the time.

Given that it's gonna take several hours (of my weekend most of the time - and I'm an IT Manager so do it for a living too) to do the job properly (no just sticking in the Ghost disk unfortunately), I think that's a fair price, and I get a lot more repeat business too that overcharging.

zilog_jones

The problem with the OP's suggestion of giving everyone user accounts is that there's a lot of programs that won't work properly with users. I tried this on my PC at home - my mother had no probs being downgraded to a user (she pretty much just checks e-mails and does online banking/shopping), but my brother was most unhappy as most games don't work properly or not at all unless the user is an administrator. Some other sophisticated programs like AutoCAD don't work properly either unless run by an admin.

Yes, Windows is retarded.

aidan_walsh

zilog_jones wrote:

Yes, older versions of Windows were retarded.

Fixed.

zilog_jones

What, does Vista have user rights that almost make sense?

DonkeyStyle \o/

...allegedly.

Gurgle

DaSilva wrote:

it would take hours, and the best and fastest way would be too backup things they need to a CD, and format. They didn't want this, as they were afraid they would forget to backup some things etc, so I told them sorry and left.

Ah, theres your mistake. You told them what you were going to do.
Should have just backed up the 'Documents & Settings' folder and then formatted, no need for them to know until afterwards.

DaSilva wrote:

The reason it got this bad. Whoever set this up, perhaps it was a shop, or somebody else they knew, left them all with administrator accounts, even the 10year old, had an admin account on the computer.

Lol, have to argue there. My 3yo has an admin account on my PC, which he uses very responsibly .

You would just leave them with one admin account?
Which you would presumably give to the 'Man Of The House'(TM).

You automatically blame the kids, but I think you'll find the Man Of The House is the most likely one to have picked up all the malware. I've seen no evidence of phishing from the Lego Bionicle or Nick Jnr websites for example.

Gillie

I would get the odd request to fix something by ppl who know me and have heard (the classic) "You work with Computers".

I don't really have time anymore. When I did, I told them up front how much it would be and if their Internet connection was slow or not BB I would take the machine away and fix it at home.

DaSilva

Gurgle wrote:

Which you would presumably give to the 'Man Of The House'(TM).

Thanks but I prefare my own words in my mouth than yours.

Gurgle wrote:

You automatically blame the kids, but I think you'll find the Man Of The House is the most likely one to have picked up all the malware. I've seen no evidence of phishing from the Lego Bionicle or Nick Jnr websites for example.

Again, nowhere did I blame the kids, only point out that the 10 year old kid had an admin account which isn't neccesary, and is a bit silly. I didn't say that she was the cause of all the malware, or anything like that. So please read what I said, and not what you assume I said.

And the idea, was too give them all "user" accounts, since they all wanted accounts on the pc, and have an extra one administrator account that they are only to use when they need too, otherwise they just use their individual account.

tba

I set up a machine once and made everybody an admin, except for one account that I called "internet"

I put a shortcut to firefox on that desktop and changed the icon to look like IE, I removed all shortcuts to IE and FF on the other accounts.

Worked quite well too.

Ghost Train

zilog_jones wrote:

What, does Vista have user rights that almost make sense?

yeah, it seems to be improved, you no longer have to completely switch/login to an admin account when a program needs more access to the system, you just need to enter an admin password while staying in the limited account.

For me, unless you are using windows xp for the basics task, having a limited account was too much hassle. Too many program installs etc required switching the the admin account

tba

Just like UNIX!?!

OMG!!!

DonkeyStyle \o/

tba wrote:

I put a shortcut to firefox on that desktop and changed the icon to look like IE, I removed all shortcuts to IE and FF on the other accounts.

Worked quite well too.

Very fiendish.
What is it with that e that people are so attached to?
"but but... it brings me so much malware! and I can't get enough porn diallers!?"
Tell them its an IE alternative and they'll hate it without even looking.
Deception is the only way.

mick.fr

zilog_jones wrote:

Yes, Windows is retarded.

Or maybe the people who are not able to properly use it because of a lack of good sense and knowledge ?

is_that_so

KdjaCL wrote:

Why are you getting upset over people not looking after their windows? Once you done and its working well your job is done. Your there to fix it not teach the ignorant.

Clicking "free porn" "your pc is fecked" is bad, then leave with your payment


kdjac

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime"

Very poor attitude here tbh. It sums up the worst of the "techies"( including me)and something we should attempt to avoid. ie "Well if you can't do it you must be stupid."

Although I would agree that you don't babysit people . Show them once, leave them some instructions that they can understand and after that they are on their own.
For this reason I tend to stay clear of Home PCs. Things just "happen" :rolleyes:

mwrf

tba wrote:

I set up a machine once and made everybody an admin, except for one account that I called "internet"

I put a shortcut to firefox on that desktop and changed the icon to look like IE, I removed all shortcuts to IE and FF on the other accounts.

Worked quite well too.

excellent, I must do this in future