What nitro for tmax 3.3

stephenmarr

Some of yea know that myself and my bro bought a t-maxx and revo 3.3
we were wondering what fuel should we use. theres a hobby shop in Nass that has a 1gallon monster trinity 20% for €40 same price for 15% is this a good price? also what do yea all use?

vectra

stephenmarr wrote:

Some of yea know that myself and my bro bought a t-maxx and revo 3.3
we were wondering what fuel should we use. theres a hobby shop in Nass that has a 1gallon monster trinity 20% for €40 same price for 15% is this a good price? also what do yea all use?

I used 16% Model Technics in mine while running it in and it had buckets of power.
When that was use up I put Blue Thunder race formula 20% in there and to be honest I always liked this fuel but could not get it down here.

Got a gallon of Tornado 25% and put it in there. *BOOM* :eek:

Conrod snapped after a short time.

Now. On saying that the old 2.5r engine that I took from my revo and put in my sons T-Maxx literally flies on the Tornado 25% and seems to love it.

I have a contact in the north that sells the dogs danglies of fuel which the TRX engines seem to love and is loved by drivers all over the world.
Bryon fuel.. Recommended by racers/bashers all over.
It comes in 16% and 25%
Probably better to start off with the 16% between you to get them run in and then decide if you want more "grunt" or not .:D
Available HERE
The 16% works out at about €30 if you an organise a way to get it down and the 25% is about €5 more.
If it needs posting down it will cost a bit more.
But on saying that you have a super quality nitro for less than the stuff available in Naas


Now. Dont forget to give the guys at NAVAN NITRO NUTS a call to arrange meeting up with them as I wouldnt think you are too many miles away from them. They meet nearly every Sunday I think.
Tell Enda I told you give them a call. :cool:

Enjoy your neew wheels, as I am sure you will. My biggest regret of having the Revo was selling it..

Plug

As vectra said the model technics runs good on the 3.3, i can wheelie anytime i want and didn't touch the carb settings. But I would say the Bryon fuel is better again;)

wrote:

My biggest regret of having the Revo was selling it..

It was a pleasure:p Saying that i didn't drive it in ages:( I HAVE to get a few pics and videos of it.

stephenmarr

Cheers for that Vectra when i get it i will post pics up cannot wait for it

Cmar-Ireland

Green Hobby has Model Technics for just under €30 a gallon.

vectra

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

Green Hobby has Model Technics for just under €30 a gallon.

Model technic although a good nitro would not stand a chance compared to Byron.
Now. on saying that, I bet coolwings will come along with 10 pages of text explaining why MT is as good as any..

coolwings

Not necessary Vectra.
Model fuel is just a mixture of chemicals.... the nitro in Byron is the same as the nitro in Tornado is the same as the nitro in coolpower and so on .........

You tune for the fuel you use. That's all.

Now as for what crazy €€€ you are willing to pay for a flash label - well .... I can never understand how slow some people are to wake up.

But in my (real) automobile, if I had an empty tank, I never drove past an open filling station no matter what the brand of petrol. Of course petrol just happens to be another fuel made of a mix of chemicals. Petrol also varies a lot in price - depending on the label!

So usually I look for good value.

Now what was it you were saying about the price of those fuels?
Was it 30% variation in price?

Model Technics Go Glo Plus blend in 16% nitro is approx €30 for a 4.55 litre gallon, (not a 3.5 litre US galllon).
But Go Glo Plus 10% nitro would also do (esp on new engines) and it costs even less.

Cmar-Ireland

I'm not looking for a all out racing fuel, just something that will run well in the 3.3
Would the 16% Go Glo plus be a good all round fuel? I read in the Revo manual that you should stick with the same % fuel all the time and redo the break-in if you change %.

Can you go as low as 10% in a 3.3? I'd rather keep the head cool and extend it's life that have an extra few mph !!!

coolwings

Everything you said sounds fine.
On the 10% ... with those high revving engines sometimes you can go down to 5% - but that probably requires an extra smooth engine. My specter goes fine on 5% and I use both 5 and 10% in it.
It really depends on what I have handy, however the 10% is distinctly nicer in winter (colder weather).
With 10% there is less expertise needed to get it running fine.
With 16% there is less expertise needed to start it.

Plug

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

Can you go as low as 10% in a 3.3? I'd rather keep the head cool and extend it's life that have an extra few mph !!!

I run 16% nevers overheats no matter what, NEVER! It also packs a decent punch. Im guessing if you put 10% or 5% in it it would run like a granny in a wheelie chair, thats my opinion.

coolwings wrote:

With 16% there is less expertise needed to start it.

The push of a button does the trick:D

T-Maxx

coolwings wrote:

Model Technics Go Glo Plus blend in 16% nitro is approx €30 for a 4.55 litre gallon, (not a 3.5 litre US galllon).

And it's 16% by volume, not weight as in the US, so 16% MT is approx. 20% US mixes.:)

Cmar-Ireland

Leaving aside the pure speed that it would produce, which would you guys recommend for ease of use (starting & running) and reliability, 10 or 16% ?

Cheers

coolwings

Telling the truth ... both will do. It's not so important as it it might appear.

The extra nitro will give quicker accelleration, top speed is very similar for both. But you get to top sooner with 16%.

Glowplugs last longer with 10% if that is an issue.

Starting is easier with 16% if that is what's most important.

Plug wrote:

... Im guessing if you put 10% or 5% in it it would run like a granny in a wheelie chair, thats my opinion....

Nice one Plug :-) ROFL

But Plug has a good point - and that's why 16% is the most popular nitro ratio in model car and truck fuel (excepting competitions where 20 and 25% are used).

Plug

If you want to go really fast now i mean really fast i sujest 16% quikfire but it runs a bit hot so richen it, but you want reliablity over performance so go for the 16% dynoglow. Its cheap enough aswel.

stephenmarr

where do u guys buy your nitro were in the kildare area.

Plug

Thought there is a model shop there, in Naas

Cmar-Ireland

There is an rc shop in Naas, but the fuel is 40 odd euro, and the guy in there is not very helpful.

coolwings

(If transport is a problem) If you pop over to the model flying club in the Curragh you will find plenty of folks who go to and from Dublin and bring their MT fuel out to Naas.
If you were to call Patrick at 01-4928776 ( Green Hobby ) to find where the glowfuel airplane folks meet to fly, and explain with him, I would think something could be arranged via one of the regularly commuting modellers.

Cmar-Ireland

Coolwings, where exactly is Green Hobby? I might be up tomorrow. If I am I'll get a couple of gallons of 16% Go Glo.
Yeah I know where the lads fly on the Curragh. I go out to watch now and again. I would love to learn to fly an rc heli.

vectra

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

where exactly is Green Hobby? I might be up tomorrow. If I am I'll get a couple of gallons of 16% Go Glo.

Green Hobby & Model
Greene Marine Ltd
38, Clareville Road, Harolds Cross,
Dublin 6W

Green Hobby & Model Map

Hope that helps.

Cmar-Ireland

From what I read here, I think I'll now go with 10% Go Glo. I like the idea of easier tuning and better glowplug life.
I won't be racing the revo, so a reliable, cool running engine suits me better.

Plug

I would not recommend you break your engine in on that stuff.

vectra

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

From what I read here, I think I'll now go with 10% Go Glo. I like the idea of easier tuning and better glowplug life.
I won't be racing the revo, so a reliable, cool running engine suits me better.

:eek:
That would be similar to putting normal unleaded into a formula one car.. :rolleyes:

Just imagine how that would run..

g5hn710m4xpdwy

Why do you guys always make it out to be that anything <16% is just pure ****é?

I run my buggy on 5% and when it runs it goes. fast.
Tallus has switched to 5% and hasnt noticed much to any change IIRC;) Don't listen to them it's grand stuff, and cheaper

coolwings

Flunked wrote:

...I run my buggy on 5% and when it runs it goes. fast.
Tallus has switched to 5% and hasnt noticed much to any change IIRC;) Don't listen to them it's grand stuff, and cheaper

I ran my Specter in on 2/3rds gallon of 5% GX (castor oil) Model Technics.
The next half gallon was also 5% GX.
Somebody used up my fuel and the next bottle I took happened to have 10% (also GX) and that's what is in it at the moment. BUT ... I had to richen it up a bit to prevent overheating on the 5% higher nitro, seeing as the engine is still a teeny bit tight.
When the summer arrives I will probably go back to 5% nitro, but switch to the cleaner GoGlo synthetic mix.
I know the engine will run ok before I try.

But it is a good exercise for anyone to try ....
take a litre of 5% (any mix)
get some pure nitro and model fuel oil
about 100ml (= 1/3rd jamjar) of nitro, castor oil and eg EDL synthetic oil.
Using a measure jug (or baby bottle) divide your litre of go-go-juice in 6 or 10 parts and make up all the mixes you will ever want to try out.
Nitro at 5%, 10%, 16%, 20%, whatever you want.
Each in castor and synthetic.
test them all.
Now throw the leftovers together and test the 50:50 castor:synthetic mix for each nitro level.

You learn a few things.
One is the "running it in on a new fuel" is a big whopper of a lie.
What really happens is - it starts on a new fuel - it warms up - you retune for sweetest running - do one fast run (to soften the metal a bit) - possibly retune with a tiny tweak to make it better - DONE!

After 20% you have to add 50% more nitro (=30%) to make a real difference.
After 30% nitro, you have to double up the nitro to 60% to make a measurable improvement.

So the first 5% nitro has the biggest effect, the next 5% (=10% total) really improves starting from cold, and accelleration, temp rises so you richen up to counteract, 10% to 16% helps a bit ... I mean the guy with will beat the guy without in the same car over the same course, but it's not such a big improvement as going from 5 to 10%.
The move to 20% or 25% is only for competition where a conrod is expected to last from 3 to maximum 10 races, and piston and liners a month or two. Tough luck if the conrod breaks and then makes a hole in the engine case, it's new engine time.

If you have any doubts - try it and see. The ingredients are only about the cost of one gallon of "hot" fuel.

Later on when you are happy with % of nitro, you can try lowering the oil% in your fuel until the engine breaks. You have the perfect race fuel the last tank before "KAPOW".

In my own models (about 3-4 years ago):
I used from 0% to 65% nitro.
From 2% to 25% oil
Castor and synthetic and mixes.
Added water to see what would happen.
Added petrol to model fuel in my model.
Added model fuel to the petrol in my lawnmower.

What do I use now ... straight (0 nitro) or 5% or 10%.
Castor (Model Technics GX) until engine is TOTALLY run in, and synthetic with trace castor (model Technics Go Glo + ) from then on.
Over 90% of all fuel I use is 5% nitro... either GX-5 or GoGlo+5.
Big engines over .90 tend to see the straight, and monster trucks see the 10% when 1/2 run in.
My engines run the same on both, but are easier to clean up later if I put GG+ through them.

There are many ways to have fun with engines without actually racing.
:-)

g5hn710m4xpdwy

So your backing me up

PS: is it cheaper to buy straight nitro and oil and the other ingrediants and mix them yourself?

Cmar-Ireland

So coolwings, what will it be......10 or 16% for my Revo? Like I said, not looking for all out speed (I had that with the FG) I Just was easy running !

coolwings

Flunked: Yes - sorta.
Not cheaper unless U have a bulk purchase negotiated.
But some people do who want a special mix like eg the mix I developed for YS 4-stroke engines.

Others just ask for the sp mix to be pre-made up for them. IMHO they get the better deal.
I suppose the DIY guys get the fun of actually doing it, which I used to enjoy once. but now it's a pain.

C-Mar: Assuming a new engine? I admit I'm not "normal" but what I would do, is go out and buy 1 litre of GX-5 and 1 gallon of GX-10, I would give it one tank of 5, then half and half (=7.5) then GX-10 or 7.5 for the rest of the running-in period.
After running in I would check it on a half tankful of the 5% previously set aside, and see if that was ok. If not, just continue on with the 10%.
With a gallon of 10% gone thruough it, I might test on 16%, but if it was reliable on 10%, probably not.

The point is - your car tells you what fuel it likes with your tuning style, not the instruction book, or us boards guys, or anyone else. And as it ages it's preference will change slightly.
Of course if you can't get it going reliably yourself, and you get someone else to tune it for you, don't be surprised it it then goes nice on the fuel they like!

It's not such a big deal as it's made out to be.

Plug

Buying a 3.3 and running it on 10%:rolleyes:
I'll say no more.
Will make sh!t of that engine for one good reason.

g5hn710m4xpdwy

Plug wrote:

Buying a 3.3 and running it on 10%:rolleyes:
I'll say no more.
Will make sh!t of that engine for one good reason.

See, you did it again;) It runs/would run good

coolwings

Remember ... the propellent ... the stuff in the fuel that burns to make power ... is the methanol. Not nitro, or oil.
But each to his own preference, it's a big world and, what fuel this or that guy prefers ... it's no biggie.

vectra

I still think a TRX 3.3 engine will NOT run at its designed premium on 10%.. Now. I will say that my 3.3 ran good on 16% MT. Ran better on 25% until somebody apparently ran it too lean

OTOH.
My TRX 2.5 runs awesome on the 25% Tornado. Whilst it still runs fine on 16% there is no comparason between the performance with both fuels.

Plug

Flunked wrote:

See, you did it again;) It runs/would run good

10% fuel will run the engine too cool, too cool is not good, deminishes performance and will not allow the slieve to expand to optium size or whatever its called, this will cause the conrod to snap. Might be different with a carson motor or whatever one you have(think its a carson anyway) because the 3.3 is a high performance engine, decent running dosen't come with low fuel and low tempetures.

@Cmar-Ireland, just go for 16%;)

g5hn710m4xpdwy

lean it out:p

coolwings

Carson? Well my Carson Specter has a Force engine, for which read OFNA, and a few other "quality US-made (hah) renamed brands".
You forget that I have - to prove a point - used 5% in a T-Maxx - also where 16% is recommended. Something that is generally viewed as won't work.
It just takes a fine degree of tuning, but it is harder to do than using higher nitro...
Oh - by the way- the conrod didn't break.

Don't forget that with any nitro, if the engine is too cool, you TUNE IT, by leaning it out, and the engine temp goes up!

Plug

coolwings wrote:

Carson? Well my Specter has a Force engine, for whick read OFNA, and a few other "quality US-made (hah) renamed brands".
You forget that I have - to prove a point - used 5% in a T-Maxx - also where 16% is recommended. Something that is generally viewed as won't work.
It just takes a fine degree of tuning, but it is harder to do than using higher nitro...
Oh - by the way- the conrod didn't break.

Don't forget that with lower nitro, if the engine is too cool, you TUNE IT, by leaning it out, and the engine temp goes up!

Have you ever used 16% in a motor?

coolwings

This could go on for a long time.
It's really one of the reasons I prefer electric to liquid fuel. Fewer factors that affect the performance of my model with electric.

Anyway, there is a good reason for using higher nitro. Some engines are tight when new, and have a top-dead-centre piston position resistance that must be overcome if the engine is to roll over TDC and make another firing, and revolution.
Three things help your engine get over the top resistance:

the power carried forward from the last firing 1 revolution ago

the lubrication of the parts and ease in their movement

the weight of the flywheel on the crankshaft

higher temp, hotter glowplug, more nitro or higher compression increase the first factor

Leaning out increases number 1 but decreases number 2

raising nitro increases 1 but burns oils away therefore it decreases 2, so you have to richen up to compensate, decreasing 1.

Using higher nitro fuel, with higher oil content, raises 1, minimises losses power losses in 2. It is the way with the least expertise that gets a result.

nobody thinks about number 3

Nobody swops glowplugs and retunes for testing, they are actually happy as Larry if they can only start it!

coolwings

Plug wrote:

Have you ever used 16% in a motor?

I have personally used every mix from 0% nitro up to 65% nitro in engines.
That includes 16%, a lot of it.
While helping out modellers with starting problems I have started hundreds of model engines that were not my own, and were set or tuned wrongly..

vectra

Flunked wrote:

lean it out:p

I think I had a bad experience of that with my first 3.3 motor... BOOM..!!! :eek:

coolwings wrote:

You forget that I have - to prove a point - used 5% in a T-Maxx - also where 16% is recommended. Something that is generally viewed as won't work.

Did you compare performance levels between both types ( 5% & 16% ) during that episode ?

coolwings

Vectra
1st I suspect you were possibly using high nitro and low oil at the same time, and then leaned it out.

2nd It needed the fuel lines to be shortened and obviously preferred 10% or more. But it started and went which we were told it would not do. Our conclusion was that the setup the model came with was fine on both 10% and 16%. The 5% was for us.

There seems to be a competition about this discussion that I can't understand.
It is only a personal tradeoff we make with our gear.
20% get 1 to 6 months of ballistic competitive performance, new engine parts now
on 15 - 20% get 3 - 9 months of extemely hot performance, engine wear now
on 10%-16% get most of the benefits of nitro but little of the costs, engine 1 - 3 years
on 5% need a bit more ability, engine goes on and on.

The same size models that used to have a .21 engine now have higher compression, better tuned pipes, and 3.5 engines or more.

There is now ooodles of power to use or waste. This means there is no need to have it all running on the cliff edge of destruction to get the theoretical maximum performance. If that is what you want ok fine for you. On you go, enjoy yourself.

Some other people are happy with 10% lower performance ... still amazingly hot ..... and causing a fraction of the mechanical problems you have to deal with.

it's not a religion, no requirement to conform to any "nitro" rules, everyone can do it their own way, experiment, and see what they prefer.

Cmar-Ireland

Well, we picked up two gallons of 16% MT Go Glo and a 1/2 gallon of GX-16 expert mix to break in both 3.3 engines.
just waiting for the two trucks to arrive from Tower now....

coolwings

You will find breaking them in challenging. But be patient and give it time.

stephenmarr

we like a good challenge itching to get them

Plug

Ah coolwings when i got the T-maxx i was a newbie, how no problem at all because of the proper manual and DVD, very helpful and easy. Ah dought they wont have a problem, hopefully:D

vectra

Plug wrote:

Ah coolwings when i got the T-maxx i was a newbie, how no problem at all because of the proper manual and DVD, very helpful and easy. Ah dought they wont have a problem, hopefully:D

You forgot to mention the vital part of info..!!
Now you have a "special" revo..

Plug

vectra wrote:

You forgot to mention the vital part of info..!!
Now you have a "special" revo..

I miss it:(
Haven't driving it in a while, will drive it next week, got a week off school, lovely:)
Still no news off them other gomes?

vectra

Plug wrote:

I miss it:(
Still no news off them other gomes?

Huhh?

I had my Audi 1/5th out for a quick burst last week...
Mmmm..! Music to my ears.
Cant wait for the good weather to go to Rosegreen racaway with it..

Plug

I meant the germans:(
Yes I cant wait for the smeel of burnt nitron in morning!

vectra

Plug wrote:

I meant the germans:(
Yes I cant wait for the smeel of burnt nitron in morning!

No more news from Hanz.. :rolleyes:

Anyway.
The 8 weeks is up this week on the investigation period for DHL.
So. I reckon one more week and that should be it.

Plug

vectra wrote:

So. I reckon one more week and that should be it.

What happens then?
*Vectra buys guns and plane ticket*

Cmar-Ireland

If using 16% fuel in a 3.3 engine, does the heat range of a glowplug make much difference? I've seen cool, medium & hot glowplugs.