Tractors with missing or defective lights

maidhc

BrianD3 wrote:

...we have many "homemade" trailers here the vast majority of which have either no number plate or defective lights/indicators. (The UK survey does not appear to cover homemade trailers)

Nothing wrong with homemade trailers! They generally are old decomissioned trucks.

BrianD3 wrote:

The article suggests that results like this mean that the introduction of an "MOT" for tractors is inevitable in the near future.

Maybe. But would it make the roads any safer? I'm not a keen proponent of making up laws for the sake of it. TBH keeping indicators and lights working on agricultural machinery is an ongoing battle, which you invariably loose. It is a much harsher environment than with cars and the like. I go through about 3 mirrors a year on the tractor, and keeping indicators working in the trailers is nigh on impossible... they may be working in the morning, but be smashed by the evening.

BrianD3

maidhc, sounds like you're clutching at straws there!

Do you believe that NCT and DOE testing are also a waste of time, laws made up for the sake of it etc.

The biggest problem I see with the NCT is it's every 2 years (should be every year) and it's not enforced. So a law abiding person puts his car through the NCT and spends moeny on it for the test. Meanwhile Jimmy down the road drives ould bangers and has never done an NCT, brags about it too. The Gardai wave him through checkponts and there's "Not a bother" on him.

This lack of fairness would also seem to apply to farmers/builders who make an effort to keep their vehicles roadworthy when there's soem eejit down the road who makes a mockery of the whole thing. If testing was brought in and enforced it should be fairer.

Also one thing I forgot - in the article it mentions that a tractor which is unroadworthy may also be unsafe for use on the farm. A non working handbrake is an example of something that is regarded as being unsafe even if the tractor is being used off road. Many tractors in the survey had defective handbrakes.

I would say anyone with an interest in road safety and motoring generally would be interested in the april edition of Classic Tractors. It is the first time I have bought a tractor mag. There is an article on classic Ford tractors in it too which may be of interest to maidhc

maidhc

BrianD3 wrote:

There is an article on classic Ford tractors in it too which may be of interest to maidhc

As the owner of 4, it may well be!

Whether a defective handbrake is actually unsafe is another matter. If the operator is aware it is defective, and acts accordingly I would argue it is no danger.

Having said that I like to keep my stuff in order, and fixed a handbrake only last week, but there is always something wrong somewhere. (considering the 5 tractors on the farm have a combined age of 130yrs, it is unsurprising....).

Overall, I agree with you that things should be better than they are, but even if there was an NCT, I can easily see there being something broken or missing the following week.

Wishbone Ash

maidhc wrote:

Whether a defective handbrake is actually unsafe is another matter

I'd have to go with you there maidhc. A defective park brake on a tractor is a relatively trivial matter.

Car Mad

maidhc wrote:

Maybe. But would it make the roads any safer? I'm not a keen proponent of making up laws for the sake of it. TBH keeping indicators and lights working on agricultural machinery is an ongoing battle, which you invariably loose. It is a much harsher environment than with cars and the like. I go through about 3 mirrors a year on the tractor, and keeping indicators working in the trailers is nigh on impossible... they may be working in the morning, but be smashed by the evening.

Here Here if half the people here knew the work a tractor goes through during its lifetime they would be quite shocked.
There little 07 Beemer wudnt last 5 mins on a farm.:D
As above it is very hard to keep lights working in tractors as they are easy to brake and the fuses seem to go a lot more.
Also as above keeping lights on trailers is impossible because them tailboards go again the reason you cant see any number plate is because the lights board was changed again this morning:rolleyes: and again after dinner:eek: .
Agree totally with Maidhc when driving a tractor I always try to make sure all my lights are working and clearly visable.
To be honest there not always going to be and theres nothing you or me can do about it.
Unless you want to get out of your car and walk beside me all day checking to see:cool:

Seth Brundle

Car Mad wrote:

Here Here if half the people here knew the work a tractor goes through during its lifetime they would be quite shocked.
There little 07 Beemer wudnt last 5 mins on a farm.:D

That comment is a bit nonsensical. A beemer or any other car isn't designed to be used on a farm. The fact that a tractor will do thousands of hours of difficult work in its lifetime is part of its design.

Car Mad wrote:

As above it is very hard to keep lights working in tractors as they are easy to brake and the fuses seem to go a lot more.

In fairness, I think a lot is down to the operator. On one farm I can think of there are four tractors. The smallest one (MF 135) was the most abused followed by the next smallest (MF 165) and they look it. They are IIRC well over 20 years old however. The Ford 7740 and new JD (not sure what it is) are immaculate. The JCB 523 (or 525 - can't remember) loadall too is in perfect condition after about 5 years of service. The main reason is that you would have gotten your arsé kicked if you damaged them. As for fuses - I don't think Ive ever changed one on a tractor!

maidhc

kbannon wrote:

In fairness, I think a lot is down to the operator.

It is. But the reality is that it is also a very harsh environment in which to keep electrics working. While most new tractors now use aircraft standard wiring, the same cannot be said of trailers (even fancy factory built ones).

Things like bulbs and bulb holders take a battering, not only from hitting things, but from dealing with rough ground on a vehicle with no suspension. Then there is the issue of the trailer connector, which quite frankly is the single most unreliable piece of junk ever made.

As I said these things should be kept in order, and I like to do so, but most farmers won't bother. If there was an NCT they would be right, and broken again. The Gardaí should probably enforce it more, but they have lots more to be doing too. Judge Patwell gives harsh sentences for it having no lights though, and has scared a few people in sorting their stuff out.

Biro

I think they're gone a bit mad bringing in more and more laws instead of tackling current problems. The tractor at home is used on the road maybe twice a year. The lights aren't workign properly on it, but to be honest it's never driven on the road if the visibility is even remotely poor. We finish up long before dark cause we know the lights aren't working. The handbrake isn't working either, but it's not needed. If they were to introduce an MOT type system it'd probably cost us a fortune, for what? I don't think when I drive our tractor in broad daylight that I'm a danger with no handbrake and no lights.
I'm in full agreement with enforcing the law and there is no excuse for badly lit or not lit at all tractors on the road at night or dusk. But forcing everyone to do an MOT to combat the errors of a few is a bit overkill I think.
Maybe they could start with the bigger farmers, go by how much green diesel they buy in a year or something. If they get a lot, then they obviously are big time farmers and are on the road a lot, so start with the full timers rather than the part timers.

Seth Brundle

Biro wrote:

I'm in full agreement with enforcing the law and there is no excuse for badly lit or not lit at all tractors on the road at night or dusk. But forcing everyone to do an MOT to combat the errors of a few is a bit overkill I think.

But surely it makes sense to ensure that all vehicles on the road are roadworthy. Yours might be but are you sure only a few aren't?

Biro wrote:

Maybe they could start with the bigger farmers, go by how much green diesel they buy in a year or something. If they get a lot, then they obviously are big time farmers and are on the road a lot, so start with the full timers rather than the part timers.

Just because a farmer buys a lot of green diesel doesn't mean they use the road at all!

BrianD3

Biro wrote:

I'm in full agreement with enforcing the law and there is no excuse for badly lit or not lit at all tractors on the road at night or dusk. But forcing everyone to do an MOT to combat the errors of a few is a bit overkill I think.

It's more than a few though. With longer evenings now it's not as apparent but a few months ago I was seeing many many tractors with defective lights out on the road when it was dusk/night. Of course for every 1 eejit that drives without lights at these times there may be 9 others (eg yourself) who have broken lights but stay off the roads if lights are needed. Sensible enough, but relying on people to be sensible is asking for trouble, because people tend to be stupid.

As for handbrakes - according to BAGMA a defective handbrake is a danger on both farm and road and they explain why. Haven't got the mag in front of me at the moment so can't elaborate

Another thing I'll say is I have to do health & safety training as part of my job. From talking to people involved in H+S training they invariably say that the farming sector is the worst when it comes to health and safety and that it lags well behind construction, manufacturing etc.

Biro

BrianD3 wrote:

It's more than a few though. With longer evenings now it's not as apparent but a few months ago I was seeing many many tractors with defective lights out on the road when it was dusk/night. Of course for every 1 eejit that drives without lights at these times there may be 9 others (eg yourself) who have broken lights but stay off the roads if lights are needed. Sensible enough, but relying on people to be sensible is asking for trouble, because people tend to be stupid.

As for handbrakes - according to BAGMA a defective handbrake is a danger on both farm and road and they explain why. Haven't got the mag in front of me at the moment so can't elaborate

Another thing I'll say is I have to do health & safety training as part of my job. From talking to people involved in H+S training they invariably say that the farming sector is the worst when it comes to health and safety and that it lags well behind construction, manufacturing etc.

True alright, people do tend to be stupid when it comes to these things. To be honest about the hand brake, we did get ours fixed before and I never once used it so I'm assuming it's siezed again now with mud. I really have no use for it. Parking in gear is plenty for what I do, and if I'm parking on a slope I'll either have something on the back to drop or I'll turn it sideways relative to the slope to the point where it comes to a rest naturally with the wheels turned towards the hill, then park in gear.
I do know though that the risk of injury or death on a farm is exceptionally high relative to the others mentioned, thats because you don't have a health and safety officer there, or even H&S training. The amount of risks taken on farms is shocking. 98% I reckon avoidable. The very first lesson I was taught was when I need to get off the tractor, turn off the machine. No matter what. The "quick fix" with the foot while a machine is running will end up in death. I suppose the risks are taken by people under pressure, bailing etc before the rain, but thats no excuse to risk your life.

joshsworld

I do believe that all tractors regardless of how much they are used need to have lights on them if they are being used in anything less than broad daylight. There is a farmer/contractor working out of a few fields up the road from my house (cul de sac). I regularly see them going up the road with full beams on and all work lights on. I don't care what you say having full beams and worklights on the road are dangerous. They blind the driver behind and in front regardless of where they are pointed. I know i've worked on farms and driven big tractors such as the ones talked about. I also have a mf 135 that i'm doing up and making sure all lights work on it before it goes onto the road. I drive up and down the road i live on and sometimes have to stop because the lights on these tractors blind oncoming drivers as it is effectively having full beams blasted at you. My father recently was driving down the same road and one of the tractors where coming the other direction. It had full beams on and when my father flashed him with the fulll beams the driver turned on all work lights he had. What an idiot he could cause and accident.

This is taken from the road safety authoritys website, it comes under the lighting of agricultural vehicles section:

Lighting

Agricultural vehicles must be fitted with proper lights and reflectors and must be in good working order. Tractors must be fitted with two headlamps, two side lamps, two rear lamps, two rear reflectors, brake lights and number plate lights. Tractors and combinations must also be fitted with brake lights and indicators. Detached trailers parked in a public place after dark must be fitted with two side lamps, two rear lamps and two rear reflectors.

The use of white lights or ploughing lamps to the rear of an agricultural vehicle while on a public road at night is prohibited. This could confuse motorists into thinking that a vehicle is coming towards them.

Loose agricultural loads which project to the rear must be fitted with a load reflector fitted as close as possible to the extreme rear of the load and on the right hand side.


Safety should be the main aim at any stage while on the roads. Lets try and do this and hopefully save lives