Rental Market gone insane!!!

Cheese Princess

What is the story with the demand for apartments to rent in Dublin?
My boyfriend and I are looking for a one-bed apartment around the south city/suburbs. We've been on the hunt for about three weeks now and it's a nightmare!
The letting agents keep arranging open viewings so any time we go to see a place there's a queue of about 20 people waiting outside to see it too. Then you have to give your references and hope and pray that you get picked. It's seriously demoralising! I'm starting to feel like an X Factor reject!
Half the places we've seen are complete kips anyway and the nice ones are out of our price bracket. A friend of mine is moving out of his one-bed apt soon for which he has been paying 1100 a month. I called the letting agent to enquire about it and they're raising the rent to 1300!! It's a one-bed for the love of god!!!!!
I'm starting to get seriously worried that we won't find anything and end up back in some dive like I used to live in at college (when we were too drunk or broke to care!)
Has anyone had the same experience? Is it better to actually register with a letting agent or just keep looking at daft etc? Any suggestions would be very welcome!!

tHE vAGGABOND

Interesting post, other people on this forum would have it be known that the rental market in Dublin is knackered and that is a sign the end of the world is nigh

All you can do is to keep trying, its like being a student again, have the deposit available to you, so you get snap up that great place once you see it at very short notice

Stinkerbelle

I hear ya, we finally got offered a place yesterday after four hard weeks and seeing roughly 20 propertys.

It's crazy out there at the moment. My advice would be to keep daft.ie open, refresh every so often, send an email immediately selling yourself, call straight away, fax your references before you go(if with an angency), turn up extra early (somehow someone will always be there before you), tell them you are very interested, follow up with an email possibly. The waiting to get picked didn't work for us in the beginning so then we had to stick our head out and say PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GIVE US A BREAK.

Also, always ask them if they have anything else coming up, try get friendly with the agents, explain your situation. I did started to do that this week and felt like I was getting somewhere but thankfully got offered somewhere in the meanwhile.

We were even starting to run into the same couples at viewings....awkward!!

ronbyrne2005

Well a lot of investors seem to be selling up so this reduces supply of all apartments , also there seems to be a lot less one beds in city centre than required. I think this is more like "one bed apartment rental market going insane" than the wider market going insane although rents may also be rising in other areas of market due to the investor sell up temporaily reducing supply. Why not rent a small house close to city?

Sponge Bob

It could be that they are being withdrawn to be sold .

eg

http://daftwatch.atspace.com/daftcounty_1.html

such as

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/dublin_1/198769/

and

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=152251

Cheese Princess

Stinkerbelle wrote:

I hear ya, we finally got offered a place yesterday after four hard weeks and seeing roughly 20 propertys.

It's crazy out there at the moment. My advice would be to keep daft.ie open, refresh every so often, send an email immediately selling yourself, call straight away, fax your references before you go(if with an angency), turn up extra early (somehow someone will always be there before you), tell them you are very interested, follow up with an email possibly. The waiting to get picked didn't work for us in the beginning so then we had to stick our head out and say PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GIVE US A BREAK.

Also, always ask them if they have anything else coming up, try get friendly with the agents, explain your situation. I did started to do that this week and felt like I was getting somewhere but thankfully got offered somewhere in the meanwhile.

We were even starting to run into the same couples at viewings....awkward!!

Good advice! I think we need to be more pushy - we've been showing up early and telling them how interested we are...maybe a sly 50 into the letting agents hand might be the next step!
Some places are being let before they even have the viewing which makes me wonder if people are offering cash before they've even seen the place.

shoegirl

There has always been a chronic shortage of 1-bed units in Dublin. Last time I rented one of these (c. 2001) it was going at 600 pounds a month - about 760 euros. At the time the average industrial wage was around 2/3 of what it is now, so relatively, rents have gone up by around the same amount in this sector.

Much of the traditional one bed units are found and demanded in tradional flatland urban regions where rents are much higher to start with. Go out to Balbriggan or Kildare and this kind of unit beceomes a lot cheaper. (Better still, Fermoy, where I saw one advertised for 350 euros a month a few weeks ago!)

You also tend to find very high rents in unit types for single people living alone - bedsits, studios, artisans dwellings etc. Again reason is that they only make up a tiny proportion of the available housing stock, yet the biggest growth area is one-person households.

Another issue is that the rent allowance brigade particularly target one person units and stay there for dear life because its much harder for them to find anywhere else. (They also tend to hog the cheaper units since they cannot afford the dearer ones, you'll find a lot of them who've been in the same place for 6-10 tens and more).

Stinkerbelle

Cheese Princess wrote:

Good advice! I think we need to be more pushy - we've been showing up early and telling them how interested we are...maybe a sly 50 into the letting agents hand might be the next step!
Some places are being let before they even have the viewing which makes me wonder if people are offering cash before they've even seen the place.

as in being 'let' on daft before a viewing. i noticed that, but after speaking to a few agents/landlords they had to take the ad down because of the huge response so it shows up in red as being let. always worth asking will they take a deposit at the viewing. some do, some dont. but better to be prepared.

Philbert

Cheese Princess wrote:

Good advice! I think we need to be more pushy - we've been showing up early and telling them how interested we are...maybe a sly 50 into the letting agents hand might be the next step!
Some places are being let before they even have the viewing which makes me wonder if people are offering cash before they've even seen the place.

I totally understand your frustration. I was in the same position not too long ago, looking for a 1 bed apartment in Dublin city center.

My budget started at €700, this immediately rose to €800 then €900....!
I was just about to give up when I found one place I really liked. The landlord had more than 25 appointments that day to see the place and I know that there was a slim chance of been picked from so many. So, I told the landlord that I would add an additional €70 on to the monthly rent he was looking for and double the deposit. (I was desperate at this stage :rolleyes: ).

I also expressed how much I really really wanted the place. He called me back later that day and told me that I can move in straight away. I actually felt like I had just won the lotto, in reality however, it was quite the oppoiste!

So my point is, you need some sort of competitive advantage, and money is about all you have

You could also try outright bribery. Bring some cash or an expensive gift. (I realise how obscene that is, but its soooo competitive out there you really need to do something to give yourself the advantage)

ArphaRima

I really am amazed at this post. Surely if demand is greater than supply, the price will rise? I cant fathom these "hoping to be picked" statements.

Pepe LeFrits

I'm viewing a place tomorrow that is (relatively) cheap and in a great location, so not surprisingly the estate agent said there is a lot of interest. I've got first viewing though, so does anyone have any tips or tricks I could use to get an advantage? I've got references ready for myself and my housemate (my housemate is going to an open viewing for another place a few miles away at the exact same time), I asked the estate agent if I should bring a deposit but they said no. I asked if offering a higher rent than what was asked for might help, but they said that wasn't really the way it works.

The_Conductor

fluffer wrote:

I really am amazed at this post. Surely if demand is greater than supply, the price will rise? I cant fathom these "hoping to be picked" statements.

Demand being greater than supply is a temporary phenomenon- as a lot of properties which were previously available for rental purposes are now being desperately put on the market in a hurry (the daft survey in this forum shows availability of 2nd hand properties in Dublin on an upward trajechtory).

I rented for a number of years a small self-contained apartment in Rathmines. It was a beautiful flat in the basement of one of the old houses there- the family who owned the place lived overhead. While it doesn't mirror regular arrangements- it worked extremely well.

If you check student-land Rathmines/Ranelagh/Clonskeagh/Dundrum/Stillorgan you will find that property does become available- esp. at this time of the year (a lot of Erasmus students/US students may have rented maisonettes/flats for 1 term and landlords may have difficulties letting them again esp. to students, the average Irish student not having the same rental potential as a foreign student).

There are options out there rather than relying on The Evening Herald and DAFT- you just have to know how and where to look.

Shane

Cheese Princess

Thanks for all the advice folks. Have 2 more places lined up for tomorrow night so fingers crossed. I did consider the idea of offering more money but we can't really afford it. Maybe I'll bake a nice cake for the letting agent....:)

ronbyrne2005

Cheese Princess wrote:

Thanks for all the advice folks. Have 2 more places lined up for tomorrow night so fingers crossed. I did consider the idea of offering more money but we can't really afford it. Maybe I'll bake a nice cake for the letting agent....:)

Unless its a money cake i would'nt bother. Money talks and the market decides what the rent will be. Consider different property types /be flexible about exact location if money is an issue.

The_Conductor

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Unless its a money cake i would'nt bother. Money talks and the market decides what the rent will be. Consider different property types /be flexible about exact location if money is an issue.

Exactly- the knux of the issue is location, location, location.....
Everyone wants to live as central as possible- regardless of the state of the housing or rental market- there is a finite supply of centrally located property. Explore other options. Its only a 30 minute walk from Rathmines to the Central Bank on Dame Street, after all......

Explore your options.....

Gerry_J

The best thing to do is firstly, as mentioned by Stinkerbell make sure that your reference are faxed or dropped off into the Letting Agent office or to the Landlord by e-mail if possible, also make sure you know how to get to the property and that the local services and amenities are suited you where you work.

Secondly, as for open viewings they are mostly the norm for Lettings, but try to make your self know to the agent and that they should have already have your references, and try to be as early as possible for the appointment, it is beneficial to be in a position to pay a holding / partial deposit payment so long as you can get a proper receipt for same.

Thirdly, be prepared to sign off on a lease as soon as possible, it may be some what of a bitter pill to have to swallow if you gave already paid fully or partially in advance for your current rental property, but to secure the property it may be necessary, as Landlords put pressure on agents to get their property let as soon as possible.

Fourthly, it’s all market dependent as to what’s available on the market at any give time and who is available to rent in the market at any give time. Tenants want clean secure rental properties well furnished and presentable, and most of all affordable where as Landlords seek professional working tenants for the most part, some will take the rent allowance but unfortunately this number is reducing all the time.

They want to maximise the rental income and keep costs low, with the increase in service charges and maintance costs they increasingly dependent on high or above market rents to make the mortgage payments hence you see some high rents for medium quality, also you have the other type of Landlord who now has large mortgage repayments to make and they decide to up the rent to meet that alone, unfair but unfortunately it happens.

Finally, no offence intended but any proposed Tenants who either says that they can pay by cash, or offer any form or incentive to an agent are generally automatically disregarded as to avoid any future incidents of problems as in my experience any one who has to do that generally has a reason for doing so. It is of no benefit to accept money or some other issue /gift for the slake of loosing the letting fees of the property of the tenant goes belly up and possible losing of the client too all for the sake of taking a backhander.

Regards

Gerry

Philbert

Good informative post Gerry.

Just want to address the following points from my perspective:

Gerry_J wrote:

Finally, no offence intended but any proposed Tenants who offer any form or incentive to an agent are generally automatically disregarded as to avoid any future incidents of problems

I was dealing with the landlord directly. I didnt realise this was the case with agents. But Im sure youll get those agents who will, and those who wont.

Gerry_J wrote:

as in my experience any one who has to do that generally has a reason for doing so.

My only reason was to try to gain the competitiive advantage amongst 20 odd other professional hard working people and couples.

Gerry_J wrote:

It is of no benefit to accept money or some other issue /gift for the slake of loosing the letting fees of the property if the tenant goes belly up and possible losing of the client too all for the sake of taking a backhander

Please remember that not all tenants who offer incentives are "dodgy". Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Zambia

I would advise against offering to handover cash too soon. There has been case of fraud in dublin where several deposits are taken on a property already sub let then the viewing person buggers off with the cash.

iguana

smccarrick wrote:

Demand being greater than supply is a temporary phenomenon- as a lot of properties which were previously available for rental purposes are now being desperately put on the market in a hurry (the daft survey in this forum shows availability of 2nd hand properties in Dublin on an upward trajechtory).

I don't know how temporary it is. The op's post sounds exactly like what I went through getting a flat back in April, May and part of June 2003. Granted I was looking in Rathmines & Ranelagh but it took 11 weeks going to as many as 8 viewings a day to find a 1 bed apt for €950pm.

I went to viewings before work on, my lunch break and then more each evening. Most places were absolute sh!tholes, one even required you to agree not to drink alcohol in the building and another had a toilet in the shower, like in a campervan and another had the shower in the bedroom, like literally a shower at the end of the bed. :mad: Anything decent was gone by the time we got there.

At one stage we got so desperate we took a place in a hurry because we wanted to confirm it before the other people queueing outside snapped it up. It was covered in dirt and mould and the gate to the car park slammed against the bedroom wall everytime a car enetered or left the building. Which was every 30 seconds between 7 and 9.30am. We lived in it two days before moving out, sacrificing a chunk of our deposit. Luckily we still had a months paid up on our old place so we could move back there.

Eventually we found a great place, €900pm, two bedrooms and a patio overlooking Ranelagh Gardens. Heaven. Until the winter rolled around and the whole place was destroyed in damp, ruining a whole load of our furniture and clothing. Which it took the landlord 14 months to make even a crappy attempt to sort out.

Cheese Princess

Well it's another week later and still no joy.
We have looked in town, Ranelagh, Rathmines, Rathgar, Ringsend, Ballsbridge, Sandymount, Dundrum, Inchicore...so we're not exactly limiting the search. It's the same every time - crowds of people or total dumps. The letting agents are taking references only, no deposits.
This is our 4th week looking and we've seen 4 places this week already, I'm going to another one at lunchtime.
Trying to stay optimistic but it's seriously wearing us down now.

ronbyrne2005

Cheese Princess wrote:

Well it's another week later and still no joy.
We have looked in town, Ranelagh, Rathmines, Rathgar, Ringsend, Ballsbridge, Sandymount, Dundrum, Inchicore...so we're not exactly limiting the search. It's the same every time - crowds of people or total dumps. The letting agents are taking references only, no deposits.
This is our 4th week looking and we've seen 4 places this week already, I'm going to another one at lunchtime.
Trying to stay optimistic but it's seriously wearing us down now.

why not try somewhere on the northside? Buses are fairly efficient from nortside suburbs near to city centre. Phibsboro, Glasnevin, Drumcondra, Santry are all very convenient for working anywhere near city centre.

TCollins

I think there has been a lot of rubbish spoken over the last 2 years about rent prices going down or remaining static. In my experience they have been going up over the last couple of years. There are lots of people at viewings looking for apartments in Swords, Balbriggan and Santry (These are the places i've been looking). I have had similar experiences to yourselves when moving twice in the last 2 years.

Its almost gone back to the scrambles of 2000 to get a place.

Pepe LeFrits

Just paid the deposit and first months rent on a place, what a relief! Got a really nice, spacious 3 double bedroom apartment on Ailesbury road for €2000 a month.

ronbyrne2005

TCollins wrote:

I think there has been a lot of rubbish spoken over the last 2 years about rent prices going down or remaining static. In my experience they have been going up over the last couple of years. There are lots of people at viewings looking for apartments in Swords, Balbriggan and Santry (These are the places i've been looking). I have had similar experiences to yourselves when moving twice in the last 2 years.

Its almost gone back to the scrambles of 2000 to get a place.

Its not rubbish, since 2000 rents have'nt risen on average more than inflation and actually fell for a few years around 2002-2004. This is'nt me saying this its from Daft.ie who monitor and survey rents in all areas for years on a scientific basis. My friend recently rented his one bed in Phibsboro for 950euro which is same price as when he bought it in late 2004. Rents have been rising over last few months due to many investors selling properties and large numbers of immigrants arriving still.
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/02/06/story2187.asp
Of course some areas will rise by more than others depending on rental demand in that area at any given time. Expect less hassle renting later this year or early next year.

TCollins

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Its not rubbish, since 2000 rents have'nt risen on average more than inflation and actually fell for a few years around 2002-2004. This is'nt me saying this its from Daft.ie who monitor and survey rents in all areas for years on a scientific basis. My friend recently rented his one bed in Phibsboro for 950euro which is same price as when he bought it in late 2004. Rents have been rising over last few months due to many investors selling properties and large numbers of immigrants arriving still.
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/02/06/story2187.asp
Of course some areas will rise by more than others depending on rental demand in that area at any given time. Expect less hassle renting later this year or early next year.

One of the very people who seems to think that they can change market forces by running around shouting 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling', 'rents are falling', 'the sky is falling'

Its 2007 now, not 2004 by the way.

I know you have a friends experience for every point you want to make but why not read the experiences of others (there are plenty just above your post) or go out and check for yourself. Rents have been increasing for a lot longer than you think. Face it, rent is not cheap anymore. There are now unfortunately queues to get apartments. And predicting futures trends is not easy.

geraco

read this thread and i thought it must have been dated from 2001 - i moved back to ireland last march - we organised 10 viewings - first place we saw in Temple bar we took - it was very easy - a year later we are renegotiating our lease with the landlady - looking for new furniture, some changes etc. I thought we had the upper hand because everyone was saying that the rental market was slowing down.- after reading this thread i am seriously re-evaluating our approach with the landlady.:eek:

hmmm

TCollins wrote:

I think there has been a lot of rubbish spoken over the last 2 years about rent prices going down or remaining static. In my experience they have been going up over the last couple of years.

The daft figures clearly show rents have increased slightly over the past two years but are only beginning to regain levels from about 5 years ago. On the bubble thread you dismiss all anecdotal evidence and insist on statistics, here you appear to be dismissing the statistics and saying only your anecdotal evidence is correct - which is it to be?

TCollins

hmmm wrote:

The daft figures clearly show rents have increased slightly over the past two years but are only beginning to regain levels from about 5 years ago. On the bubble thread you dismiss all anecdotal evidence and insist on statistics, here you appear to be dismissing the statistics and saying only your anecdotal evidence is correct - which is it to be?

I have personal experience of this one. This particular thread is not about speculation, it contains posts from many people who have actually been there trying to rent recently - not whose friends have tried to rent a place.

The bubble thread is full speculation one way or the other. It does not contain any views that i can see from people who were just buying property or selling property who can tell you their actual experiences. Its all 'i know of this person or that house' and 'im telling you now laddy, this is what will happen.'

This thread is 'It happened to me and here's my story'. Apart from the people who are telling us rents are not rising of course - 'They are still telling us about their friends in this thread'

Calina

Interesting that you mention Swords.

Rents in Swords are up on average around 15% over the past 18 months or so. It's a big hike - but here's the interesting point: 1) rental supply is down by around a third, and 3) sales supply is up by about 100% give or take a few houses here or there.

I think that one of the driving forces for rising rent in Swords is a lack of supply and all those new landlords in the new estates around there must be quite relieved because at least it might give them some scope to limit the pain when it comes to trying to cut their losses caused by mortgage outgoings exceeding rental income. That being said, I think some of them are chancing their arms as well by trying to cover their costs.

Interestingly enough, one of the clues that a property market could be in trouble is when inventory for sale goes up causing a blip in rental supply...

I've been renting for the past 7 years. Only in the last 18 months have I experienced rents actually going up. Previously they either stayed static or slid downwards. Sort of matches the daft reports.

soma

TCollins wrote:

I think there has been a lot of rubbish spoken over the last 2 years about rent prices going down or remaining static.

No actually rents were often static and in some cases being eaten by inflation. Read the Daft reports, they're pretty easy reading even if you struggle with numbers.

Rents however are *definitely* accelerating at the moment, there is no doubt about it. Investors are panicking and dumping properties. The sequence of these events are perfectly predictable in any property bubble, however the timing is impossible to call due to irrational nature of the participants.

Cheese Princess

So I went to a place on Friday in Rathmines and the letting agent said he'd had 78 enquiries about the place. Went through the usual routine of giving references etc to no avail...
As for rent inflation....a friend of mine is moving out of his one-bed apartment in Dundrum which he has rented for a year for 1100 a month. I called the letting agent to see if they would consider signing the lease over to us and they said they were increasing the rent to 1300. That's about an 18% increase (if my maths are correct!). Seems a bit steep to me.....