Too many foreigners?

mick.fr

Hi guys,

I am wondering what do you think about all those foreigners working in Ireland ?

There are a lot of Chinese people working in Fast Food industry, pubs etc...
A lot of Polish, Russian, ... working here also.

Plus I have noticed a increase of English workers in the past months. Well I have no stats, it is maybe just a coincidence...

Do you think those workers are necessary and are actually generating wealth to Ireland, or do you think they might be taken your job ?

I have meet a couple of employers and directors (Irish) and some of them basically told me they prefer to hire foreigners because they are not late to meetings and stuffs like that usually.
What do you think about this statement ?

(I have not seen this appening very often hopefully, my Irish colleagues are not as late as some people are saying...)

Nody

Aah thank you, you have just made my day (yes this is a rant so don't take it to seriously ).

Allow me to answer you as one of those dirty foreigners taking Irish jobs, and rest assured this is not only my oppinion I'm basing this one. I'm basing this on several years conversation with over 100+ foreigners (Europeans mainly mind you) about Ireland.

mick.fr wrote:

Hi guys,

I am wondering what do you think about all those foreigners working in Ireland ?

Trust me, we would not be here if we had an option (Internet, food, house prices, dress code by the locals to mention a few) but due to Ireland being considered a third world country (serious EU cash inflow) and being allowed to offer more tax discounts and paying companies to move here from our countries...

There are a lot of Chinese people working in Fast Food industry, pubs etc...
A lot of Polish, Russian, ... working here also.

Because you know, they actually work. I know, it's a novel concept with most Irish today that you would actually work to earn cash instead of doing social wellfare as anything below 30k appears to be to low for most Irish in the first place so no, they don't really take your job. Rather they actually give you the chance to continue to sit home and lift social wellfare (I still recall the article about a woman turning down a 30k job because she made the same after tax from wellfare and could not get fired, I seriously flinched at that time).

Do you think those workers are necessary and are actually generating wealth to Ireland, or do you think they might be taken your job ?

We're actually the once that have been driving your economy since around 2000, you'll see the difference in the next 10 years when most of us leave as companies move on due to lack of discounts. You don't seriously think that you're a competitive nation I hope, especially with the attitude and education people recieve these days (what is the base industrial wage these days, last time I checked it was 32k!).

There is also a reason why companies don't recruit local people due to lack of skill/abilities/language etc. The number of CVs I've seen with art major thinking they should be managers *shudders*.

I have meet a couple of employers and directors (Irish) and some of them basically told me they prefer to hire foreigners because they are not late to meetings and stuffs like that usually.
What do you think about this statement ?

To bloody true! Irish are not exactly considered to be efficent (drinking anyone?) compared to say a Swede, Danish or a German. And that of course don't include the sickness, coming in late, talking around the water cooler, extended breaks and just pissing around. Most of us dirty foreigners come here for work, so we work, save up and work some more and then leave before we grow old. Instant cash for the state in pension and no need to pay sick care etc.

(I have not seen this appening very often hopefully, my Irish colleagues are not as late as some people are saying...)

All depends on where you are and with whom, but I can say hands down I've seen a higher percentage of Irish coming in late/hangover/drunk/calling in sick then I see foreigners as a population as whole at work.

Aedh Baclamh

Allow me to answer you as one of those dirty foreigners taking Irish jobs,

Who said dirty? Don't know why you would declare yourself as a dirty person on the internet, but people can be weird these days.

Because you know, they actually work. I know, it's a novel concept with most Irish today

Irish are not exactly considered to be efficent (drinking anyone?)

Sorry, what?

Raekwon

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Nody seriously, I would probably hear less complaining in a hospital ward full of terminally ill people then in what you have posted!

Simply put, if you are not happy then why are you here? Nobody is putting a gun to your head making you stay :rolleyes:

chump

Nody wrote:

Aah thank you, you have just made my day (yes this is a rant so don't take it to seriously ).

Allow me to answer you as one of those dirty foreigners taking Irish jobs, and rest assured this is not only my oppinion I'm basing this one. I'm basing this on several years conversation with over 100+ foreigners (Europeans mainly mind you) about Ireland.

Trust me, we would not be here if we had an option (Internet, food, house prices, dress code by the locals to mention a few) but due to Ireland being considered a third world country (serious EU cash inflow) and being allowed to offer more tax discounts and paying companies to move here from our countries...

Because you know, they actually work. I know, it's a novel concept with most Irish today that you would actually work to earn cash instead of doing social wellfare as anything below 30k appears to be to low for most Irish in the first place so no, they don't really take your job. Rather they actually give you the chance to continue to sit home and lift social wellfare (I still recall the article about a woman turning down a 30k job because she made the same after tax from wellfare and could not get fired, I seriously flinched at that time).

We're actually the once that have been driving your economy since around 2000, you'll see the difference in the next 10 years when most of us leave as companies move on due to lack of discounts. You don't seriously think that you're a competitive nation I hope, especially with the attitude and education people recieve these days (what is the base industrial wage these days, last time I checked it was 32k!).

There is also a reason why companies don't recruit local people due to lack of skill/abilities/language etc. The number of CVs I've seen with art major thinking they should be managers *shudders*.

To bloody true! Irish are not exactly considered to be efficent (drinking anyone?) compared to say a Swede, Danish or a German. And that of course don't include the sickness, coming in late, talking around the water cooler, extended breaks and just pissing around. Most of us dirty foreigners come here for work, so we work, save up and work some more and then leave before we grow old. Instant cash for the state in pension and no need to pay sick care etc.

All depends on where you are and with whom, but I can say hands down I've seen a higher percentage of Irish coming in late/hangover/drunk/calling in sick then I see foreigners as a population as whole at work.

Hah, great post to read from an irish POV.

I'd agree with aspects of what you say, but such generalisations can't be good.

I hope you don't have this opinion about most/all irish people. There are many many hard working determined motivated diligent intelligent irish workers. (i;m not one of them )

LundiMardi

Nody wrote:

Aah thank you, you have just made my day (yes this is a rant so don't take it to seriously ).

Allow me to answer you as one of those dirty foreigners taking Irish jobs, and rest assured this is not only my oppinion I'm basing this one. I'm basing this on several years conversation with over 100+ foreigners (Europeans mainly mind you) about Ireland.

Trust me, we would not be here if we had an option (Internet, food, house prices, dress code by the locals to mention a few) but due to Ireland being considered a third world country (serious EU cash inflow) and being allowed to offer more tax discounts and paying companies to move here from our countries...

Because you know, they actually work. I know, it's a novel concept with most Irish today that you would actually work to earn cash instead of doing social wellfare as anything below 30k appears to be to low for most Irish in the first place so no, they don't really take your job. Rather they actually give you the chance to continue to sit home and lift social wellfare (I still recall the article about a woman turning down a 30k job because she made the same after tax from wellfare and could not get fired, I seriously flinched at that time).

We're actually the once that have been driving your economy since around 2000, you'll see the difference in the next 10 years when most of us leave as companies move on due to lack of discounts. You don't seriously think that you're a competitive nation I hope, especially with the attitude and education people recieve these days (what is the base industrial wage these days, last time I checked it was 32k!).

There is also a reason why companies don't recruit local people due to lack of skill/abilities/language etc. The number of CVs I've seen with art major thinking they should be managers *shudders*.

To bloody true! Irish are not exactly considered to be efficent (drinking anyone?) compared to say a Swede, Danish or a German. And that of course don't include the sickness, coming in late, talking around the water cooler, extended breaks and just pissing around. Most of us dirty foreigners come here for work, so we work, save up and work some more and then leave before we grow old. Instant cash for the state in pension and no need to pay sick care etc.

All depends on where you are and with whom, but I can say hands down I've seen a higher percentage of Irish coming in late/hangover/drunk/calling in sick then I see foreigners as a population as whole at work.

hahaha

Bitter much?

Nody

Raekwon wrote:

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Nody seriously, I would probably hear less complaining in a hospital ward full of terminally ill people then in what you have posted!

Simply put, if you are not happy then why are you here? Nobody is putting a gun to your head making you stay :rolleyes:

Actually having had one friend die here in Ireland (cancer) I can only say that I would not want to die in this country seeing how he got treated his last six months. Disgusted would be the nicest thing I got to say about it, and this was with VHI cover... Sending him home when he could not walk or crawl and in pain and no one there to take care of him and the local trust offer him 1h a day of nurse care where he lived (no, staying at the hospital was not possible or allowed, not even during the cancer treatment, that of course ignore the five failed attempts by the doctor to diagnose the cancer)!

Anyway, as noted it's a rant (and I specified it as such) but yes I am looking at leaving (only that pesky part of going through the interviews etc.) and as noted it is a sum up of the discussions I've had. To date I'd say only around 1% of all the people I've spoken to on the subject has said they expected to stay in Ireland on a 5+ year timescale, most saw it as a 1 to 2 year trip at most. I'd say same would hold true if people went to any other country as well but I find it amusing how the Irish compain about foreigners considering what they have done.

To Aedh Baclamh, you did not mention dirty foreigners, I did. I only put the words as they usually are spoken of or hinted as (regardless of country I might add) about foreigners after the economy turns slow/down. Most countries love them as long as there are jobs around but after that...

As for effiency, once again, Irish people are not seen in general as effective workers. If you hire a German they will be working from 8am to 5pm constantly, an Irish is a bit more iffy on the subject (down to individuals etc. but as a group from my pov). Having worked with many different nationalities you have to play on each groups strength if you want to get the best result/argument out of them (never try to have a work party with Germans (; ).

*edit*
Bah, taking to long time to post.

To the previous two posters above me, it's a rant, if it was not bitter what would be the point? And of course it is generalisations, but that is part of the point. Seeing how the latest cries are "foreigners are talking our jobs" and "limit foreigners to come here" you get an even bigger generalisation (:. It comes down to the same thing as the question of human "race" (there is only one race, the difference in any sample group are bigger then between groups of "insert skin color").

LundiMardi

Nody wrote:

Actually having had one friend die here in Ireland (cancer) I can only say that I would not want to die in this country seeing how he got treated his last six months. Disgusted would be the nicest thing I got to say about it, and this was with VHI cover... Sending him home when he could not walk or crawl and in pain and no one there to take care of him and the local trust offer him 1h a day of nurse care where he lived (no, staying at the hospital was not possible or allowed, not even during the cancer treatment, that of course ignore the five failed attempts by the doctor to diagnose the cancer)!

What kind of VHI Cover? Just because you have VHI cover it doesn't mean you get to take up a needed bed. Sorry to hear about your friend, but taking up a bed in a hospital ward was not going to make him/her live longer. As for the doctor who failed to diagnose the cancer, this may come as a shock to you, but erm, doctors are actually only human.

Nody wrote:

Anyway, as noted it's a rant (and I specified it as such) but yes I am looking at leaving (only that pesky part of going through the interviews etc.) and as noted it is a sum up of the discussions I've had. To date I'd say only around 1% of all the people I've spoken to on the subject has said they expected to stay in Ireland on a 5+ year timescale, most saw it as a 1 to 2 year trip at most. I'd say same would hold true if people went to any other country as well but I find it amusing how the Irish compain about foreigners considering what they have done.

You, a foreigner who has been given a better quality of life in IRELAND, are complaining about irish people complaining about foreigners doing nothing for the country. Slightly hypocritical don't you think?

Nody wrote:

As for effiency, once again, Irish people are not seen in general as effective workers. If you hire a German they will be working from 8am to 5pm constantly, an Irish is a bit more iffy on the subject (down to individuals etc. but as a group from my pov).

I've never heard that Irish people are not known to be effective workers. Can you post a link to this fundamental finding?

As for the German working 8-5 constantly.... what if his/her hours are only 9-5? Would they normally just go into work an hour earlier?

Nody

LundiMardi wrote:

What kind of VHI Cover? Just because you have VHI cover it doesn't mean you get to take up a needed bed. Sorry to hear about your friend, but taking up a bed in a hospital ward was not going to make him/her live longer. As for the doctor who failed to diagnose the cancer, this may come as a shock to you, but erm, doctors are actually only human.

Seeing how we had to google up and argue for the treatment he ended up recieving I'll take that with a load of salt (for reference the treatment worked, the cancer stopped spreading but a stage 4 lung cancer...). My point was that his treatment (with VHI cover, as a European national and hence with the same right as a Irish national) by the healthcare was appalling. We're talking about everything from the fight to get a treatment for the cancer to chasing up the doctors to actually to get the test results back! I don't expect to have a bed with silk in it but I do expect at the very least some common sense and that doctors do their job.

You, a foreigner who has been given a better quality of life in IRELAND, are complaining about irish people complaining about foreigners doing nothing for the country. Slightly hypocritical don't you think?

Actually foreigners are doing a heck of a lot more then locals are because:
1) They pay tax (in general) but don't benefit from it (what good is a new road to Cork ready by 2020 for someone in Dublin who'll leave by 2010?)
2) They don't use the health care system when old (biiiig drain)
3) They don't claim pension etc. (even worse drain!)
4) They where not educated here (hence no drain for the schools etc.)

Note that I'm limited myself to people coming here working (as that is the group I socialise with and is in since day 1 in Ireland) which is the group gripped about.

I've never heard that Irish people are not known to be effective workers. Can you post a link to this fundamental finding?

As for the German working 8-5 constantly.... what if his/her hours are only 9-5? Would they normally just go into work an hour earlier?

Actually yes they would in some cases (:. Now if we talked about an Italian or Spanish you should be happy if they are on time...

Anyway, I'm using a generalisation, I'm not basing it on anything but my own views and the views expressed to me. If I had to involve fact I'd actually have to care more then for some fleeting entertainment on a message board.

Raekwon

Nody wrote:

*edit* Another very long rant *edit*

Okay, so your rant(s) are suppose to be taken with a pinch of salt but if it was a role reversal and an Irish person started spouting off such generalisations like you did they would be quite rightly backlashed then possibly banned for trolling (no matter how humours they made it )

As a matter of interest where are you from Nody?

P.S.: I hope that you are not at work right now because if you were it would be slightly hypocritical.

Nody

Raekwon wrote:

Okay, so your rant(s) are suppose to be taken with a pinch of salt but if it was a role reversal and an Irish person started spouting off such generalisations like you did they would be quite rightly backlashed then possibly banned for trolling (no matter how humours they made it )

As a matter of interest where are you from Nody?

P.S.: I hope that you are not at work right now because if you were it would be slightly hypocritical.

If they want to ban me they can ban me for it (I can still read and when I get interested enough to post I'd come back with a new char via proxy if needed, why I did not bother posting for around 6 months when reading) (:. I'd also happily apply the rule in both directions honestly (and I'd also respond to said person accordingly and don't think it warrants a ban until they shown themself to be a utter moron who then is banned for being a moron to save time in the future (; ) as I hate rules not enforced in both directions.

And anything I rant about should be salt in the bucket loads, all other posts should most likely have a pinch (I'm a very sarcastic and ranting type of internet persona, I even had a rant forum renamed after me before on another board!).

As for me, I'm a Swede and I'd never answer if I'm posting from work or not (IP tracking etc.) nor where I currently work/have worked (by company name or hinting).

Raekwon

Nody wrote:

If they want to ban me they can ban me for it (I can still read and when I get interested enough to post I'd come back with a new char via proxy if needed, why I did not bother posting for around 6 months when reading) (:. I'd also happily apply the rule in both directions honestly (and I'd also respond to said person accordingly and don't think it warrants a ban until they shown themself to be a utter moron who then is banned for being a moron to save time in the future (; ) as I hate rules not enforced in both directions.

And anything I rant about should be salt in the bucket loads, all other posts should most likely have a pinch (I'm a very sarcastic and ranting type of internet persona, I even had a rant forum renamed after me before on another board!).

As for me, I'm a Swede and I'd never answer if I'm posting from work or not (IP tracking etc.) nor where I currently work/have worked (by company name or hinting).

Ah a Swede I used to have a Swedish girlfriend and I've been over to your country more times then I can remember. Great place!

Anyway, I wasn't implying that you personally should be banned, I just see lots of mindless rants on these boards that spiral out of control and end up with the thread been locked and the poster being banned.

But I do know where you were going with your comments initially (I think). Irish do have a very laid back approach generally but I personally don't think that effects our performance in our working lives. Granted compared to Germans (or Swedes or Danish) we may come across as lazy but then we could counter that and say that the Germans are very machine like and boring (pinch of salt).

But then again if everyone was the same the world would be a very boring place

Aedh Baclamh

Irish are not exactly considered to be efficent (drinking anyone?) compared to say a Swede

Ha

mick.fr

Yeah well my idea was not to get such rant.

And simply saying Irish workers are bad or so because you have seen a few that were, is a bit silly, suicidal, and is not to be generalized.

Of course there are lazy people everywhere, getting "free" money from social welfare, but there are a lot good workers as well.

Ireland has some issues, but which country does not have ?

Sweden is the 1st country in Europe in term of internet porn content purchases. So what does it mean ? You guys feel lonely or what ? So because of that do we call you Crazy or Insane ? You may have never seen a porn website yourself, we do not generalize.

In France for example, when I had my Ltd, tax on companies is over 35%, and whatever you make money or not each month you have to pay over 700 euros just in social payments for the over 3 million jobless people.

I have also meet some lazy monkeys here, but I am used to it as in any other EU country, this is not specific to Ireland.

And saying Irish people just drink and do not work is silly.
German, English, French drink a lot as well, that is not making them bad workers.

There are some really good things in Ireland like there are some really bad things (Road condition, schools, lack of legislation in many areas...) and so what ? You could work in France for less money, a bit more of sun, more things to do, but having to pay even more taxes, and finally not really enjoy your life.

Everything is about opportunities and when you decide to take some, do not bother to complain about the environment, because nobody is forcing you.

And even in Ireland there are ways to get better deals out of everything.
Try to scratch a bit the surface of the things, and you might see that you can actually save money, not being riped off anymore.

I am French, with a left hand drive car, how much do you think the Irish insurance company took me for my insurance the first year ? 350 Euros for a third party. Yeah you just need to scratch a bit the surface and you will find your life easier.
Try to integrate yourself more instead of seeing everything as a foreigner. Be prepared, you life might change...You have been warned.

Raskolnikov

Nody wrote:

Because you know, they actually work. I know, it's a novel concept with most Irish today that you would actually work to earn cash instead of doing social wellfare as anything below 30k appears to be to low for most Irish in the first place so no, they don't really take your job. Rather they actually give you the chance to continue to sit home and lift social wellfare (I still recall the article about a woman turning down a 30k job because she made the same after tax from wellfare and could not get fired, I seriously flinched at that time).

Your English is quite poor, but I presume you're saying that most Irish people would prefer to stay at home and claim dole rather than work for €30K a year? If so, you're talking absolute nonsense. An unemployed single person will get less than €10K a year in unemployment benefit. I can't think of any person who would rather stay at home than take a job like that.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/jobseekers-allowance#rates

Nody

mick.fr wrote:

Sweden is the 1st country in Europe in term of internet porn content purchases. So what does it mean ? You guys feel lonely or what ? So because of that do we call you Crazy or Insane ? You may have never seen a porn website yourself, we do not generalize.

We also allow sex with animals (don't ask me why 'cause I got no clue) so I'd say Crazy, Insane and Perverted (if we only used the feather we'd only be kinky). As for porn we have a very high and well develop IT structure (I'll go in on how if asked).

And you did generalize by asking if all foreigners (which is anyone non Irish) coming here is bad for Ireland. That don't only band up the people coming here with their company (such as myself), the people coming here as refugees, the illegal immegrants, the people who moved here to get a job etc. That is generalising.

I have also meet some lazy monkeys here, but I am used to it as in any other EU country, this is not specific to Ireland.

I should tell you one day about North of Sweden and our mines, they are the definition of lazy monkies (lifting around 3k tax free a month while working 3 months a year...) imo.

And saying Irish people just drink and do not work is silly.
German, English, French drink a lot as well, that is not making them bad workers.

From my experience they don't have a problem coming in the day after though (note the my part there).

Everything is about opportunities and when you decide to take some, do not bother to complain about the environment, because nobody is forcing you.

Oh you could send me to Heaven and I'd find something to complain about that I wanted to improve. You should be worried when people don't complain as that means they don't give a rats ass anymore (:.

Try to integrate yourself more instead of seeing everything as a foreigner. Be prepared, you life might change...You have been warned.

My life has changed (she'll hopefully become Mrs in a year) but I'm under no illusions about how or why. Ireland IS expensive because of cartels (same goes for many countries though, inc. Sweden) and getting a proper Internet line here (my definition of proper is at least 1 MB down and 500k up for reference with out download limits) has my Swedish soul crying in anguish (;.

Oh and I forgot to comment on your first line in the last qoute, I was a foreigner in my own country before I left it, I'm simply to stupid to tuck my head down and accept I can't change things.

*edit*
For Ras, it was the person's own comment that because the job only offered 30k she saw no reason to work when she got the same in wellfare (as in same cash as if she made 30k before tax). It included for herself, the rent for the house, money for the children and bills (was a set of articles about people with out job in Irish times about a month or two ago). To me the idea that you would not take a job because it only offers 30k (excluding the fact I would go insane from being home that much and drive the people in the house mad!) instead of wellfare just was a Huh? kind of moment. There was another thread here about some company where someone said they would rather stay home on wellfare then work for the company. That attitude for ME is a big Huh? kind of moment.

Raskolnikov

Nody wrote:

To bloody true! Irish are not exactly considered to be efficent (drinking anyone?) compared to say a Swede

Maybe you ought to have a look at your own country buddy. My girlfriend was a Swedish exchange student, she was shocked by the alcoholism in Sweden. Young Swedish men and women getting absolutely obliterated drinking spirits on a regular basis.

Nody

Raskolnikov wrote:

Maybe you ought to have a look at your own country buddy. My girlfriend was a Swedish exchange student, she was shocked by the alcoholism in Sweden. Young Swedish men and women getting absolutely obliterated drinking spirits on a regular basis.

Depends on where you catch them. Trying to get drunk in Sweden (short of being at the Danish/Finnish borders) is more expensive then here at the pub. You're looking at €4 for a 33cl bottle of beer if you're lucky (this is on your local pub kind of place with the beer of the week offer). If you check the Swedes at say a Greek island they are aiming for a years consumption in one week or you're option is moonshine/illegal import (second require being close to border or someone organising larger imports).

You could also be doing the classic student life of drinking seven days a week but you're hardpressed to find the same drinking culture when you're looking at people in their high 20s, 30s, 40s that you find in Ireland. Sweden don't have a pub culture as Ireland does (instead the people who drink sit at home and heave heavy stuff instead ) and hence people simply don't go out drinking after their student years on a regular basis. We do have a strange relationship with alcohol (you can vote before you can buy alcohol :rolleyes: ) based on our history with it. But the drinking culture of it is also quite different because of this. It is a big social stigma to admitt you got a alcohol problem or prying about it from a employeers point of view.

professore

mick.fr wrote:

Yeah well my idea was not to get such rant.

And simply saying Irish workers are bad or so because you have seen a few that were, is a bit silly, suicidal, and is not to be generalized.

Of course there are lazy people everywhere, getting "free" money from social welfare, but there are a lot good workers as well.

Ireland has some issues, but which country does not have ?

Sweden is the 1st country in Europe in term of internet porn content purchases. So what does it mean ? You guys feel lonely or what ? So because of that do we call you Crazy or Insane ? You may have never seen a porn website yourself, we do not generalize.

In France for example, when I had my Ltd, tax on companies is over 35%, and whatever you make money or not each month you have to pay over 700 euros just in social payments for the over 3 million jobless people.

I have also meet some lazy monkeys here, but I am used to it as in any other EU country, this is not specific to Ireland.

And saying Irish people just drink and do not work is silly.
German, English, French drink a lot as well, that is not making them bad workers.

There are some really good things in Ireland like there are some really bad things (Road condition, schools, lack of legislation in many areas...) and so what ? You could work in France for less money, a bit more of sun, more things to do, but having to pay even more taxes, and finally not really enjoy your life.

Everything is about opportunities and when you decide to take some, do not bother to complain about the environment, because nobody is forcing you.

And even in Ireland there are ways to get better deals out of everything.
Try to scratch a bit the surface of the things, and you might see that you can actually save money, not being riped off anymore.

I am French, with a left hand drive car, how much do you think the Irish insurance company took me for my insurance the first year ? 350 Euros for a third party. Yeah you just need to scratch a bit the surface and you will find your life easier.
Try to integrate yourself more instead of seeing everything as a foreigner. Be prepared, you life might change...You have been warned.

Great post ... I am an Irish guy who lived abroad for 5 years and you are spot on. People are people everywhere. Make the most of it, and if you don't like where you are then go somewhere else ... but there is no utopia.

OfflerCrocGod

Ye and they steal our women too.

empirix

Nody you got a nerve boy - quite ignorant too.
Btw hows the suicide rates going back home in Sweden, still top of the worlds list are we? Piss off home if you don't like it here!

OfflerCrocGod

empirix wrote:

Nody you got a nerve boy - quite ignorant too.
Btw hows the suicide rates going back home in Sweden, still top of the worlds list are we? Piss off home if you don't like it here!

Here's a dictionary.

Nody

empirix wrote:

Nody you got a nerve boy - quite ignorant too.
Btw hows the suicide rates going back home in Sweden, still top of the worlds list are we? Piss off home if you don't like it here!

Actually our suicide rate is quite good, then again we're one of the few countries in the world to actually attempt to track it properly. How's your drunk driving kills going this year?

leeroybrown

empirix wrote:

Nody you got a nerve boy - quite ignorant too.
Btw hows the suicide rates going back home in Sweden, still top of the worlds list are we? Piss off home if you don't like it here!

This is ironic considering we are the country where 'Accident in kitchen with rope' was once a statistically significant cause of death. Aren't the suicide rates for Ireland and Sweden almost identical these days?

The Hill Billy

Off to Humanities with the lot of you to "debate" immigration and it's effects on Irish society. This has feck all to do with Work or Jobs.

As soon as I saw the thread title I knew this was going to be bad news. Just another "[state my ethnicity] c0ck is bigger than your [state opponent's ethnicity] c0ck!" ping-pong rant.

Someone please close this.

DublinWriter

mick.fr wrote:

Do you think those workers are necessary and are actually generating wealth to Ireland, or do you think they might be taken your job ?

Yes. You're obviously not old enough to remember the shitehole that was the Irish economy in the 70s and 80s. The greatest economy on the face of the planet (USA) exists only because of immigrant labour.

Considering the amount of labour we exported down through the years, complaining about people coming here to work really does expose the true hypocritcal nature of the Irish psyche.

mick.fr wrote:

I have meet a couple of employers and directors (Irish) and some of them basically told me they prefer to hire foreigners because they are not late to meetings and stuffs like that usually.
What do you think about this statement ?

It's true, especially in the construction sector. Your typical Pole does not ring in sick on a Monday because he was on a 72 hour drinking binge, turns up 15 minutes early for work and works like a mule.

seamus

Nody wrote:

Trust me, we would not be here if we had an option (Internet, food, house prices, dress code by the locals to mention a few) but due to Ireland being considered a third world country (serious EU cash inflow) and being allowed to offer more tax discounts and paying companies to move here from our countries...

Ireland has been a net contributer to the EU for a number of years now. True, we did at one time take a lot of money from the EU, and this is what gave us the boost (coupled with tax incentives for companies) to get the decent economy we have today, and to pump money back into the EU. Ireland is now experiencing what you're giving out about - companies going elsewhere for cheaper wages. If companies left your country to come to Ireland, that's not Ireland's fault. Equally, if companies are now leaving Ireland to go to China, that's not China's fault.

Because you know, they actually work. I know, it's a novel concept with most Irish today that you would actually work to earn cash instead of doing social wellfare as anything below 30k appears to be to low for most Irish in the first place so no, they don't really take your job.

Depends on what viewpoint you come from. The bulk of Irish people straight out of college start on jobs less than €30k and stay there for a number of years. Maybe it's a novel idea to yourself that people actually like to progress in money, and will turn down jobs less than €30k when they've been working for five years.

Rather they actually give you the chance to continue to sit home and lift social wellfare (I still recall the article about a woman turning down a 30k job because she made the same after tax from wellfare and could not get fired, I seriously flinched at that time).

IIRC, this woman had a number of children and other reasons for her welfare income being so high. €30k won't stretch very far if you have kids and live & work in a city.

We're actually the once that have been driving your economy since around 2000, you'll see the difference in the next 10 years when most of us leave as companies move on due to lack of discounts.

Funnily enough, the economy started booming before we had any kind of serious influx of migrant workers. Migrant workers do fill in the gaps for a lot of the lower-paid jobs at the moment, but seeing as we're still in a net labour shortage at the moment, I don't think it holds us to ransom.

You don't seriously think that you're a competitive nation I hope, especially with the attitude and education people recieve these days (what is the base industrial wage these days, last time I checked it was 32k!)

We're seriously uncompetitive. Political mismanagement as it were. We have a habit of that. Average industrial wage is €34k. This is artificially inflated by massive bankrolls at management level across all sectors, and also governmental benchmarking. The average wage of joe soap on the ground is nothing approaching this.

To bloody true! Irish are not exactly considered to be efficent (drinking anyone?) compared to say a Swede, Danish or a German. And that of course don't include the sickness, coming in late, talking around the water cooler, extended breaks and just pissing around. Most of us dirty foreigners come here for work, so we work, save up and work some more and then leave before we grow old. Instant cash for the state in pension and no need to pay sick care etc.

Quite the opposite in fact. The Irish are considered one of the most efficient and productive workforces on the planet, despite working shorter hours and getting longer holidays. How does social drinking affect work productivity?]

kmick

This is one of more meanspirited threads I have seen on boards recently - everyone slagging everyone else off and having a pop. Suicide and Road deaths comments were the low points.

Now I would be the first to admit that Ireland is far from perfect. Its so far from perfect its laughable. However there is one point I would make to the original poster and that is ... we have a symbiotic relationship. You help us maintain a growing economy and we supply you with relatively higher wages to your own country. Then you leave in 3-4 years having earned enough for 10 years work in your own country. (You did not say what country btw?). Ireland was one of a handful of countries who said come on in and join the party. I have noticed in Ireland we always point out the bad and gloss over the good. Perhaps you are starting to become more Irish than the Irish themselves?

My final point - good luck to you. Earn your money, take what you can (but give back cause its good for your soul) ignore the haters. BTW the haters in ireland hate everyone, foreigners, rich people, poor people, one eyed people, fat people, skinny people etc. The kind of person who shouts at foreigners and tells them to f off home is the same kind of person who steals our bikes and mugs grannies. They are degenerates - value their opinions as such.

PS I have been on the dole and I think Crocodile Dundee said it best when he said 'Well, you can live on it, but it taste like ****.'

node

Coming from the Netherlands I have been here in Dublin working for an American company over two years now. All the money I make in Ireland, I spend in Ireland.

I don't see how I could be classified as a foreigner that comes here to take a local's job.

We have Irish people working in The Netherlands too.

Isn't that what the whole damn EU is about ?

Pointless post imo.

(Not affiliated to nody despite the name similarity by the way )

penexpers

Raskolnikov wrote:

Your English is quite poor, but I presume you're saying that most Irish people would prefer to stay at home and claim dole rather than work for €30K a year? If so, you're talking absolute nonsense. An unemployed single person will get less than €10K a year in unemployment benefit. I can't think of any person who would rather stay at home than take a job like that.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/jobseekers-allowance#rates

Yeah, but they also get rent allowance, medical card, bus pass etc.. When it all adds up, for someone earning the minimum wage, they're better off financially when they are not working. 30k a year a bit of a stretch but for anyone earning less than 20k (imo) it's really not worth their while working.

seamus

penexpers wrote:

Yeah, but they also get rent allowance, medical card, bus pass etc..

But of course, these too are benefits available to people earning a low wage too.

As a single person (or even a single couple) without children it's simply not possible to stay at home and earn more than you would by going into the workplace. If someone on the dole is getting more than you, then you're either being illegally exploited, or you just haven't investigated what benefits are available to you.

Afuera

I agree this thread is pointless. Immigrants are bringing in many skillsets that we our lacking in Ireland. I don't think it can be looked at as "they're taking our jobs".

It's a shame to think that there are people living in Ireland that don't want to be there though. The OP appears to be quite spiteful about everything. Sure, there's lots of problems, but nowhere is perfect and you have to look at Ireland in its context; it was the most underdeveloped European country only 20-odd years ago.

seamus wrote:

Ireland has been a net contributer to the EU for a number of years now.

I don't think this is correct. I remember reading somewhere that we were aiming to be a net contributor by 2013...

Ah yes, comments from Bertie himself no less...

In December last year European Council reached agreement on the Financial Perspectives for the EU for the years 2007 - 2013.
.
.
.
We expect that over the seven years covered by the Perspectives, our receipts from the EU will amount to 214 billion while our payments will be 213 billion, leaving us with a net benefit of 21billion. We anticipate that we will become a net contributor to the EU budget near the end of the seven-year period.

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?locID=181&docID=2841

seamus

Afuera wrote:

I don't think this is correct. I remember reading somewhere that we were aiming to be a net contributor by 2013...

Weird. Then why is it in my head to think otherwise..? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Bertie's own figures don't seem to add up there, but then again he's not an accountant...

tbh

I would say if nody was irish complaining about the health system, most would be falling over themselves to agree with him. For sure, he's a bit over the top in terms of his descriptions of Irish workers - I've worked all over the world, and I think we do ok (EVERYBODY talks over the water coolers, it's not about being Irish, it's about being human) - and Sweden has it's problems, as do all countries, but who's arguing against the fact that our health system is terrible, prices are too high, services are bad? Have a look in the LTI forum, check out the Eircom nightmare threads and look at the discussions in the consumer forum.

He's right, even if he is a crazy swede.

Afuera

seamus wrote:

Weird. Then why is it in my head to think otherwise..? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Yeah, I was surprised when I found out the first time as I just assumed we were a net contributor by this stage as well. I mean if the second wealthiest country in the world can't contribute a little moolah to the EU what does that say about us?

seamus wrote:

Bertie's own figures don't seem to add up there, but then again he's not an accountant...

mick.fr

Like on the radio you keep hearing that the EU gave over 50 billions euros to Ireland since the 60s to improve roads, transportation...
Ireland has less rail length and road length than many African countries, check the CIA annual report for this.

I am just wondering where is the money lol ? Switzerland ?
In Ireland there is not even a motorway to cross the country.
The m50 ? A joke thank you. The VRT and Engine Tax going to road construction ? Yeah in your dreams.

Ireland seriously needs some good politicians to introduce some legislation to improve things.

The fact that the state can not build a motorway because it is on the way of a farm or so is scandalous. This is nation priority over a farmer that should be automatically granted money (Fixed rate) and end of story.
This is a shame individual interest, not even worth 2 millions euros, are impacting a whole nation by not be able to provide them a proper motorway system.

Ok a bit off topic...

mickoneill30

mick.fr wrote:

Ireland has less rail length and road length than many African countries, check the CIA annual report for this.

Whats that pointing out. When Ireland would fit into most African countries 10 times over I'd expect that.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.library.northwestern.edu/africana/map/africa2.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.library.northwestern.edu/africana/map/&h=845&w=699&sz=303&tbnid=sCL2z7mulFBoEM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dafrica%2Bcountries&start=2&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=2

Afuera

mick.fr wrote:

The fact that the state can not build a motorway because it is on the way of a farm or so is scandalous. This is nation priority over a farmer that should be automatically granted money (Fixed rate) and end of story.
This is a shame individual interest, not even worth 2 millions euros, are impacting a whole nation by not be able to provide them a proper motorway system.

Ok a bit off topic...

Not only off topic. It's also incorrect. Compulsary purchase orders are commonly used by the Irish government.

BeatTun

lest we forget the sheer numbers of irish that emigrated to australia, america and the uk many years ago for work, and the fair number that still do...were they stealing jobs?

as much as i am concerned about the criminal element getting into the country, poles in particular, you cant argue with it, theyve kicked the irish up the arse and shown employers, hey! we'll work, we wont give you any bull****, just give us the work and we'll do it.

if you were an employer who would you prefer to hire?

just hope they dont spend all their money in ireland because inflation is only going to get worse the more our economy develops.

mick.fr

mickoneill30 wrote:

Whats that pointing out. When Ireland would fit into most African countries 10 times over I'd expect that.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.library.northwestern.edu/africana/map/africa2.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.library.northwestern.edu/africana/map/&h=845&w=699&sz=303&tbnid=sCL2z7mulFBoEM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dafrica%2Bcountries&start=2&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=2

I simply wanted to point out the lack of proper motorways in Ireland.
My example can be discussed, but I just wanted to say even some countries who do not even have the half of Ireland wealth have sometimes much better road infrastructures.

We could have taken Switzerland, I am sure we could compare this country and Ireland, and without a doubt say that Switzerland is way more advanced in term of road infrastructures.

purple'n'gold

If we keep loosing jobs at the present rate, and construction goes belly up there will be very few people working in Ireland (outside of the public service) foreign or otherwise.

mick.fr

Afuera wrote:

Not only off topic. It's also incorrect. Compulsory purchase orders are commonly used by the Irish government.

Well I guess you would have a better knowledge than me on this but I had a few discussions with some senior Irish people working in the road construction industry and they told me what I said, so I guess that is not exactly the truth.

This other thing is that I also heard a few times on the radio at different occasions, that different land owners went to the court because they were not happy with the price the construction company proposed them to take ownership of their land.

Anyway is looks like the Irish government is not making enough Compulsory purchase orders as there is not a single motorway in Ireland (M50 around a city is not a motorway really).

And traveling around Ireland to go in different cities in really dangerous because of the state of the roads. Plus you have to drive slowly, so you are also losing a lot of times.

Afuera

mick.fr wrote:

And traveling around Ireland to go in different cities in really dangerous because of the state of the roads. Plus you have to drive slowly, so you are also losing a lot of times.

You obviously don't know what it was like here 20 years ago then... Todays roads are a huge improvement on those days. And even though there is still a lot to do, I'm sure it'll reach your demanding requirements eventually. It's impossible to get everything done all at once though and would be unreasonable to expect someone to just click their fingers and make it so.

DubDani

I don't think there are too many foreigners in Ireland. Currently these people seem to be needed. The problem might come at a later stage when companies relocate or close down, and more Irish will be unemployed.

Irish employees often don't have the best reputation, and might have trouble competing with the polish, chinese etc, especially for lower paid jobs. Then the outcry might come that foreigners take away Irish jobs. I personally have not have any negative experiences with Irish people at work, and find them quite reliable.

I have ben living in Ireland for the last 6 years, and if I wouldn't enjoy life here I would have been gone long time ago. Of course I rant regularly about certain things (Transport, Motorways, Prices, Houseprices), but so does everyone else. In any other country we would find something to complain about as well.

Without having a go at them, I think Ireland might be having a "polish" problem in the future. I don't think it can be good for any country if within 1 year as many people from 1 country arrive, and suddenly make up 5-6 % of the population. Even polish think it's becoming too much. But they are quite fond of their homecountry, and I am sure they many of them will leave as soon as they earned what they aimed at, or when their country can provide them with all the opportunities.

el diablo

quite an interesting thread. nothing to say at the moment. just subscribing..;)

empirix

kmick wrote:

My final point - good luck to you. Earn your money, take what you can (but give back cause its good for your soul) ignore the haters. BTW the haters in ireland hate everyone, foreigners, rich people, poor people, one eyed people, fat people, skinny people etc. The kind of person who shouts at foreigners and tells them to f off home is the same kind of person who steals our bikes and mugs grannies. They are degenerates - value their opinions as such.

PS I have been on the dole and I think Crocodile Dundee said it best when he said 'Well, you can live on it, but it taste like ****.'

I hope you weren't having a go at me here, i can assure you my shed isn't full of bikes and i only tell foreigners(her indoors is foreign) to piss off home when they come on message boards with an arrogant attitude and point out the countries flaws - why? I am well aware of the problems in this country. The suicide rate was just a lash out of what was a big problem in Sweden, i don't condone it,but hey let the swedes can keep swinging if there all like the OP.
bye now

DublinWriter

empirix wrote:

Nody you got a nerve boy - quite ignorant too.
Btw hows the suicide rates going back home in Sweden, still top of the worlds list are we? Piss off home if you don't like it here!

Emprix, how about you shut your fool mouth and look at the stats...
http://www.oecdobserver.org/images//1792.photo.jpg
What you say is a bit ripe, considering Ireland has one of the highest rates of young male mental illnesses and suicide rates in the EU, yet Coroners here usually classify it as 'Misadventure' in order that family gets insurance and the poor guy can be buried in a Christian graveyard.

Typical Irish hypocritism on your part.

TheNog

Reading through this thread and I didn't like to see suicide rates being used to insult each other. Suicide is a very real problem no matter what country you are from.

tbh

empirix wrote:

i only tell foreigners(her indoors is foreign) to piss off home when they come on message boards with an arrogant attitude and point out the countries flaws

So out of curiosity, what do you say to Irish people who do the same?

Heinrich

mick.fr wrote:

I.

We could have taken Switzerland, I am sure we could compare this country and Ireland, and without a doubt say that Switzerland is way more advanced in term of road infrastructures.

And Health Service, rail system, busses, FREE EDUCATION and the list goes on...

But then the wiss are more politically aware but I'm sure there will be those to argue against that. However, it's results that count and the mess that this county is a sad reflection of management.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mick.fr wrote:

Like on the radio you keep hearing that the EU gave over 50 billions euros to Ireland since the 60s to improve roads, transportation...
Ireland has less rail length and road length than many African countries, check the CIA annual report for this.

I am just wondering where is the money lol ? Switzerland ?
In Ireland there is not even a motorway to cross the country.
The m50 ? A joke thank you. The VRT and Engine Tax going to road construction ? Yeah in your dreams.

Ireland seriously needs some good politicians to introduce some legislation to improve things.

The fact that the state can not build a motorway because it is on the way of a farm or so is scandalous. This is nation priority over a farmer that should be automatically granted money (Fixed rate) and end of story.
This is a shame individual interest, not even worth 2 millions euros, are impacting a whole nation by not be able to provide them a proper motorway system.

Ok a bit off topic...

Maybw we should get some foreigners in to run the country then?

Just about every country in Western Europe has better infrastructure than we do.