Bought Vista Ultimate - big mistake!

Richard Dower

I paid a SHOCKING €549 in PC World today for Vista Ultimate retail, i didn't break the seal...only to discover on calling M$ that they only offer a 90 day warranty?????.....90 DAYS FOR FIVE HUNDREAD & FORTY NINE EURO! :eek:

90 days tech support on a brand new and buggy OS, there are already 26 patches listed on the MS website....90 days?, after that i have to PAY €75 PER incident/call.

How can this be ethical/legal?...is there not a standard one year warranty in the Euro zone?

I am disgusted by this and plan to return it software tomorrow, Windows XP Pro had a 5 year warranty.

jhegarty

Richard Dower wrote:

I paid a SHOCKING €549 in PC World today for Vista Ultimate retail, i didn't break the seal...only to discover on calling M$ that they only offer a 90 day warranty?????.....90 DAYS FOR FIVE HUNDREAD & FORTY NINE EURO! :eek:

90 days tech support on a brand new and buggy OS, there are already 26 patches listed on the MS website....90 days?, after that i have to PAY €75 PER incident/call.

How can this be ethical/legal?...is there not a standard one year warranty in the Euro zone?

I am disgusted by this and plan to return it software tomorrow, Windows XP Pro had a 5 year warranty.

any 12 month warranty would refer to the disk rather than software support... still is a cheak though...

sasmac

I am pretty sure that all older versions of Windows have the same tech support contract. You have to pay for support after 90 days.

CiaranC

549 quid for an OS. Are you insane or what?

djmarkus

www.opensuse.org, better OS and alot cheaper(i.e. FOC)

Lord Oz

http://www.ubuntu.com/

zippo22

Richard Dower wrote:

I paid a SHOCKING €549 in PC World today for Vista Ultimate retail, i didn't break the seal...only to discover on calling M$ that they only offer a 90 day warranty?????.....90 DAYS FOR FIVE HUNDREAD & FORTY NINE EURO! :eek:

90 days tech support on a brand new and buggy OS, there are already 26 patches listed on the MS website....90 days?, after that i have to PAY €75 PER incident/call.

How can this be ethical/legal?...is there not a standard one year warranty in the Euro zone?

I am disgusted by this and plan to return it software tomorrow, Windows XP Pro had a 5 year warranty.

Why would you pay €549 for software that you describe as flawed (buggy...26 patches etc. ) ?

And why should the shop refund your purchase?

Draupnir

God, whats the point in just posting links to Unix OS's? This is a Windows forum and while Unix-based OS's may offer alternatives, in many cases they are impractical.

Vista will by far have more take up and usage that either of the two listed above and many users need to have Windows running for both business and personal reasons.

On topic, 90 days is pretty short but I'd imagine you will be fine with online help from non-MS staff after that period and any bug or issue you have will probably be already sorted somewhere online or at least marked as known.

I wouldnt panic too much about it to be honest. Every piece of software above the minimal hobbyist level has a bug or ten.

Endurance Man

Your first mistake was paying 550euro for an operating system on its day of launch and then expecting it not to have bugs?
Why would you need tech support anyway? Its windows for goodness sake.

Beelzebub

Be reassured:
Vista Service Pack 1 is on the way. With many new features I do believe.
http://apcmag.com/5098/microsoft_kick_starts_vista_sp1.
And I imagine a great many bug fixes.

I will wait and watch with interest before even thinking of migrating to this new and unbelieveable piece of software engineering.

CiaranC

Beelzebub wrote:

I will wait and watch with interest before even thinking of migrating to this new and unbelieveable piece of software engineering.

lol

FFS, you can buy a Dell notebook with Vista Home Premium for less than 500 notes, why on earth would you pay €550 for just the OS?

Absolut

Richard Dower wrote:

I paid a SHOCKING €549 in PC World today for Vista Ultimate retail

You realise you could go to the Dell website and get a (basic) desktop with Home Premium for €70 less - a C521 with LCD monitor is €479.

Seems a bit crazy paying €549 for the OS alone. (Even if you bough an OEM home premium version and used the soon to be released express upgrade, you'd probably save at least €200, probably a lot more)

aidan_walsh

CiaranC wrote:

lol

FFS, you can buy a Dell notebook with Vista Home Premium for less than 500 notes, why on earth would you pay €550 for just the OS?

Because he wanted Ultimate, and presumably had a good reason to spend that much on it.

Endurance Man

aidan_walsh wrote:

Because he wanted Ultimate, and presumably had a good reason to spend that much on it.

Oh i wanna hear this one .

Lemming

Endurance Man wrote:

Oh i wanna hear this one .

Ummmm .... business reasons? Not to wave the microsoft flag or anything (and before someone whinges, I use both windows and linux), but jesus christ show some perspective people!!

Yes paying 550 yoyo is erring on the side of the mentally questionable, but I can imagine that somebody (and I include myself in this) working in the technology field may have to _actually_ familiarise themselves with a product platform that is moving into the market .... :rolleyes:

And whilst linking to *nix distros may seem witty, doing so for someone who hasn't asked or hinted at wanting to know about alternatives and/or actually may have to do business within the windows sphere is not only an unproductive act, but makes me cringe since it looks like elitist snobbery and makes *nix users look bad. It's not smart. It's not funny. If someone asks for alternatives by all means link, but otherwise it looks arrogant. Precisely the same arrogance that linux users accuse microsoft of portraying.

CiaranC

Lemming wrote:

Ummmm .... business reasons?

What business reasons? And he bought it retail, off the shelf at PC world...

If anyone *needs* to familiarise themselves with the OS for "business reasons", MSDN, MS SPA, the beta programme, the training programs or the 120 day eval versions are available...

Lemming

CiaranC wrote:

What business reasons? And he bought it retail, off the shelf at PC world...

If anyone *needs* to familiarise themselves with the OS for "business reasons", MSDN, MS SPA, the beta programme, the training programs or the 120 day eval versions are available...

*sigh*

Not everyone has MSDN et al. subscriptions, rightly or wrongly. I'm simply pointing out that there may actually, heaven f*cking forbid, reasons that are business-related for going out and buying the shagging thing at such a premium price.

Not everything in life fits into category A, B, and C you know ...

CiaranC

Enlighten us to what these business reasons are then.

For anyone who is interested, MS have an online test drive here. Its free.

Lemming

CiaranC wrote:

Enlighten us to what these business reasons are then.

For the love of ....

Actually, you know what? That is an utterly f*cktarded question and I cannot be arsed answering for one simple reason. You answered yourself in your original response to me.

dingding

Tried it but I am outside the geographical area to operate the demo.

Baraboo

The first point is the most relevant I think.......


Windows Vista Business Test Drive
Powered by Microsoft Virtual Labs

Provide Feedback

· The test drive experience is currently available only to web visitors from the United States and Canada.

· The test drive is intended for evaluation purposes only.

· The test drive requires Internet Explorer 6 or later, a browser plug-in, and a broadband Internet connection. A minimum 1024 x 768 screen resolution is recommended.

· There is no product support for the test drive. You are welcome to participate in a Microsoft Windows Vista newsgroup to share your trial experiences with others and ask for advice. Find a Windows Vista Newsgroup.

· The Windows Vista version hosted in the test drive contains most of the functionality of the regular versions, but browsing the internet is not enabled.

· You may notice a slight delay or pause as you experience the product. This is due to the fact that this is a hosted trial and is dependent upon your bandwidth, local machine resources, etc. This does not necessarily represent the actual experience you will have with Windows Vista if it were installed on your PC.

CiaranC

Lemming wrote:

For the love of ....

wtf is your problem? I count 7 ways mentioned in this thread that people in the industry and even the general public can get up to speed on the product without paying for a retail copy...

But everyone else is wrong and you are right. You win the internet.

mickoneill30

CiaranC wrote:

What business reasons? And he bought it retail, off the shelf at PC world...

If anyone *needs* to familiarise themselves with the OS for "business reasons", MSDN, MS SPA, the beta programme, the training programs or the 120 day eval versions are available...

I don't know what MS SPA is but does it allow you to run the OS in prod? The other ways you're quoting don't. So a business reason I can think of is that he wants to run the OS in a prod environment. Not test, not evaluation, not beta.

His original post was a little bit innocent. There is no OS you can install that doesn't have patches from day one. Vista has been around for 2 months now also and all vendors will charge you for support if you want it.

Lemming

CiaranC wrote:

wtf is your problem? I count 7 ways mentioned in this thread that people in the industry and even the general public can get up to speed on the product without paying for a retail copy...

But everyone else is wrong and you are right. You win the internet.

You are quite correct in pointing out that there are indeed several different ways of getting to grips with the O/S - to varying degrees of detail I might also add. But what I find wrong is the utter arrogance in assuming that everyone either knows, or has access to those methods. And I'd hazard a guess that there are a lot of people who may not, by sheer statistical probability alone. So to assume that unless using one of the aforementioned several methods someone couldn't possibly have a business reason for purchasing at a silly price is nothing short of utter short-sighted arrogance.

As I said not everything fits neatly into categories A, B, and C.

For the record, if the OP doesn't have a business reason, I'd call paying that price sheer madness, but that's my personal opinion.

KeRbDoG

http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SW-040-MS
Think you should have only paid like 260euro max for Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 32-Bit Edition DVD. Bring it back and get it from overclockers or some such site.

kaisersose77

thats oem, he probably bought retail, which is about £360 delivered

Lemming

kerbdog wrote:

http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SW-040-MS
Think you should have only paid like 260euro max for Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 32-Bit Edition DVD. Bring it back and get it from overclockers or some such site.

That's for an OEM licence. Which is all fine and well, but does carry certain restrictions. The full version is £350 (incl. Vat) which works out at roughly €520 according to xe.com

iregk

Well to be honest, when im ordering sw from MS for the business i go through an account manager and squeeze him on price! I would never buy it retail off a shelf. So I don't think this is a business deal. Then again thats well away from the op discussion.

Why on earth did you pay that much for it? I'm assuming your in the midst of a mid life crisis or something. Regarding the warranty. The 90's is not for software warranty thats for help/support. Its very customary for sw companies to charge you per call for help. MS have always opperated a 90 policy here. The support life cycle is still 5 years for this product but why on earth would you spend over 500 on a brand new os, knowing that your going to have to self install (i.e. must be comfortable with this) and then bitch about phone help!!!!

kaizersoze

kerbdog wrote:

http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SW-040-MS
Think you should have only paid like 260euro max for Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 32-Bit Edition DVD. Bring it back and get it from overclockers or some such site.

Thats the OEM version. Different kettle of fish to the retail version the OP bought.

CiaranC

mickoneill30 wrote:

prod environment

Valid point Mick. (The previous discussion was about evaluating the platform, not running it in a production environment though)

I cant imagine anyone who would have the need to run vista in a production environment now buying it off the shelf in PC world anyway. Maybe Im wrong though. Maybe a solo media type guy or something. Anyone bigger at the bleeding edge would surely buy OEM or through SA or their sw vendor?

*edit* another thought strikes me: If you were going to run this in production, you'd need bleeding edge hardware, e.g. hardware released in the last 3 months? Surely youd wait and buy it bundled?

Lemming wrote:

So to assume that unless using one of the aforementioned several methods someone couldn't possibly have a business reason for purchasing at a silly price is nothing short of utter short-sighted arrogance.

Huh? Whos assuming? If you had a valid reason, you should have just pointed it out

For the record, if the OP doesn't have a business reason, I'd call paying that price sheer madness, but that's my personal opinion.

We agree on that then :)r

the_syco

The Dell OEM version can be only used on a Dell. If your Dell gets fried, and you buy a new mobo, it may not work on it.

A retail version will work on any PC. Some people (like myself) have custom built machine's, and don't want to hand over money for a Dell OEM CD, that won't work on any other PC's.

=-=

OP: hope you looked at the 1GB needed for the min specs...

Also, if you've opened the packaging, they won't give a refund. If you have not opened it, and you have a reciept, then you shouldn't have any problems getting a refund.

As for Vista being buggy, I'm surprised they have patches this early. I thought they usually wait a month before they release patchs.

Finally, most of the Vista DVD's were burnt a few weeks ago. And the exploits were proberly discovered by reverse engineering since then, so STFU. Would you prefer no patchs on the release day, but have your cc used by someone who used a new'ish exploit to grab your cc details when you bought something off the net?[/rant]

KeRbDoG

Lemming wrote:

That's for an OEM licence. Which is all fine and well, but does carry certain restrictions. The full version is £350 (incl. Vat) which works out at roughly €520 according to xe.com

So the diff between that OEM and the retail one he bought is what?
Does OEM meana that you can just use that version of windows with the machine you register it with. If the machine dies, the license for the OEM of vista dies?

Stephen

Well, the operating system has been out (to OEMs and volume licence/MSDN customers) for 2 months already, just not at retail. Hence the patches.

Stephen

kerbdog wrote:

So the diff between that OEM and the retail one he bought is what?
Does OEM meana that you can just use that version of windows with the machine you register it with. If the machine dies, the license for the OEM of vista dies?

Pretty much, yes. OEM software is supposed to stay with the hardware it was purchased with, and only that hardware. They'll let you replace parts and so forth but if you change something major like a motherboard you'll probably have to activate it again and tell them a sob story.

Richard Dower

Let me clarify, OEM is *out* as the EULA of an OEM disc is very restrictive. You can only have a 32bit or 64bit DVD, Ultimate comes with both.

Home Premium only comes with 32bit and an option buy BUY a 64bit DVD for an addition charge payable to M$, they they don't tell you how much it will cost.

I needed retail as i need unlimited activations + the ability to change the motherboard as many times a si wanted, OEM does not allow for this.

Now, i could have got Home Premium retail for €279, but god knows what the 64bit DVD would cost...add to that i wanted the top end product, my issue is not really the price.

If i didn't want or have €550 to spend i wouldn't...my issue is the warranty period, which makes me think Home Premium would suits me better...considering the extra €€€ isin't getting me much more...M$ aren't persuading to hold on Ultimate.

ps. i can return the software, as long as the seal is unbroken + have receit + returned with 7 days.

cast_iron

CiaranC wrote:

Huh? Whos assuming? If you had a valid reason, you should have just pointed it out

Well the OP didn't point it out and you assumed.

KeRbDoG

http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/blade/2007/01/29/vista-oem-available-for-system-builders-but-theres-a-catch/
Cool cheers for clearing up the OEM/Retail info.

aidan_walsh

Stephen wrote:

Pretty much, yes. OEM software is supposed to stay with the hardware it was purchased with, and only that hardware. They'll let you replace parts and so forth but if you change something major like a motherboard you'll probably have to activate it again and tell them a sob story.

I read something before on Neowin that Vista works on a points system, assaigning different types of hardware "reset points". Its starts at a default of something like 25, and when it hits below a certain level - which I recall reading to be motherboard-1 - it demands that you have to reactivate, and in theory buy a new license.

How accurate that is is anyones guess.

projectmayhem

Lord Oz wrote:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

djmarkus wrote:

www.opensuse.org, better OS and alot cheaper(i.e. FOC)

i think i'm going to start posting links to the microsoft site in linux threads, just to show how annoying it actually is. we know ubuntu and suse etc. exist, the thread isn't about those operating systems...

Beelzebub wrote:

Be reassured:
Vista Service Pack 1 is on the way. With many new features I do believe.
http://apcmag.com/5098/microsoft_kick_starts_vista_sp1.
And I imagine a great many bug fixes.

I will wait and watch with interest before even thinking of migrating to this new and unbelieveable piece of software engineering.

indeed. i was going to build a new PC for the new year but i'll get my PS3 instead, and get a new build in the summertime, when all the Vista stuff has calmed down and there's a properly operational operating system in place.

Richard Dower

Well i called M$ today about the activation issue and changing motherboards, they told me i can change the mobo (say Gigabyte to Asus et al) as many times as i wanted, though you've got a limited number of online activations, but unlimited by phone.

BostonB

Richard Dower wrote:

I paid a SHOCKING €549 in PC World today for Vista Ultimate retail, i didn't break the seal...only to discover on calling M$ that they only offer a 90 day warranty?????.....90 DAYS FOR FIVE HUNDREAD & FORTY NINE EURO! :eek:

90 days tech support on a brand new and buggy OS, there are already 26 patches listed on the MS website....90 days?, after that i have to PAY €75 PER incident/call.

How can this be ethical/legal?...is there not a standard one year warranty in the Euro zone?

I am disgusted by this and plan to return it software tomorrow, Windows XP Pro had a 5 year warranty.

Personally I've never ever used in MS support for anything. What exactly would you need their support for?

No one in their right mind would pay €549. That you did (if its true) would be more shocking than the price.

Biz reason. Get real.

Richard Dower

So would you pay €279 then?, i know it's a very high price, but since OEM is out the only other option is Home Premium...and then i have to send off for the 64bit DVD, which could cost god knows what.

djmarkus

projectmayhem wrote:

i think i'm going to start posting links to the microsoft site in linux threads, just to show how annoying it actually is. we know ubuntu and suse etc. exist, the thread isn't about those operating systems...



indeed. i was going to build a new PC for the new year but i'll get my PS3 instead, and get a new build in the summertime, when all the Vista stuff has calmed down and there's a properly operational operating system in place.

I think you'll find any of our posts arn't against the charter, post all about micro$oft in the unix forum if you want, thats your right.

mukki

BostonB wrote:

Personally I've never ever used in MS support for anything. What exactly would you need their support for?

No one in their right mind would pay €549. That you did (if its true) would be more shocking than the price.

Biz reason. Get real.

yeah what warrenty do you need, its not like your vista install disk is going break in 6 months time from general wear and tear


€549 is huge money

mickoneill30

djmarkus wrote:

I think you'll find any of our posts arn't against the charter, post all about micro$oft in the unix forum if you want, thats your right.

That's not the point. He was pointing out that it's thick. It's my right to do many thick things but most of us don't (or try not to) do them.

Stephen

djmarkus wrote:

I think you'll find any of our posts arn't against the charter, post all about micro$oft in the unix forum if you want, thats your right.

I think you'll find that they are.

Charter wrote:

No Off-Topic Advocacy: When someone asks a question about their current browser/mailer/etc, either answer the question or don't post. If they want an alternative, they'll ask for it. Off-topic advocacy will be sent to the Recycle Bin.

seamus

BostonB wrote:

Personally I've never ever used in MS support for anything. What exactly would you need their support for?

Well from time to time, Microsoft do release hotfixes and patches which they don't make available to the general public. These patches are for very specific software/compatibility problems, and so MS don't want people installing them willy-nilly. Usually they're distributed to volume licence customers when it's determined that they're needed, or people who pay €75 for a support call.

I can't recall a time when I personally ever needed to log a call with MS support. There has always been more than enough information available online to troubleshoot problems.

Although the information available online for Vista support won't be as plentiful as XP quite yet, there's still plenty out there. When I installed the Vista beta, any problems I had (the bootloader is one example), I could get sorted in a matter of Googling minutes.

I understand what you're saying Richard, but I don't see why you would require MS support past 90 days, unless you're a massive company installing Vista on critical systems. And in that case, you wouldn't be picking it up off the shelf in PC world.

thehomeofDob

Richard Dower wrote:

ps. i can return the software, as long as the seal is unbroken + have receit + returned with 7 days.

Yes - it's your legal right. On top of that, PC World have a 28 day exchange policy and a 7 day refund policy.

hshortt

What's the current cost of an MSDN subscription and would this have been a viable option for the OP?

MSDN allows download and use/activation on 10 PCs. Any version of Vista you like.

My company pays for my subscription, maybe you could talk to your employer?

Cheerio
Howard

iregk

Is the license agreement on the outside of the package? As if its not then you legally can open the package read and return it and still be entitled to a full refund. Keep in mind if the license agreement is in print inside the package the dvd itself may have a sticker saying if opened it means you agree with the license.

So basically as long as you dont open the dvd package you can return it, tell the store you read the license and dont agree with it. Legally you are entitled to a full refund. If they say we can't as the package is opened you just have to say well I had to open it to read the license to which I didn't agree.

mick.fr

Well for those working in IT as a freelance or employee, can register their company to be a Microsoft Partner (Free, well the basic one at least).

Then once you are a partner, you can order the Action Pack.

The Action Pack comprises all Microsoft medias and products (Exchange, Windows, ISA, Office...) and you have the right to use up to 10 (I think so) as well.
It costs 300 euros a year. So that's a great deal to get your hands on the latest Microsoft products without having to spend a fortune.

The pack is intended for IT Professionals/MS partners, not for the public, as you have to register your company with them.

MSDN is much more expensive, over 2000 euros, but provides developer resources.