Report Lashes Neglect Of Young Stars

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

davyjose

I find it hard to believe that they've taken team-sports into consideration (although haven't yet read the full report). Until recently we've had a consistently highly ranked Football(Soccer) team, one of the best Rugby nations in the World, and a sport (2 actually) of our very own, known as GAA. Seems a bit harsh when you consider that.
Although it does seem that any sport that requires more equipment than a field, some grass, a few post and a ball, are the ones we suffer in. The situation isn't improving either; I played a lot of Tennis in my teens. Show me somewhere now where I can go for the odd game of tennis, without needing some kind of exclusive membership?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Sangre

Ireland just doesn't have an 'athletics' culture. You never hear of people trying out for track.

maxi-twist

davyjose wrote:

Show me somewhere now where I can go for the odd game of tennis, without needing some kind of exclusive membership?

Clarinda park dun laoghaire.

davyjose

maxi-twist wrote:

Clarinda park dun laoghaire.

Thanks, not ideal from Templeogue though, but still...

brianthebard

davyjose wrote:

I find it hard to believe that they've taken team-sports into consideration (although haven't yet read the full report). Until recently we've had a consistently highly ranked Football(Soccer) team, one of the best Rugby nations in the World, and a sport (2 actually) of our very own, known as GAA. Seems a bit harsh when you consider that.

You think? whats the highest Ireland ever rated in soccer? 30th in the world? Consider the countries above us in that regard. Rugby, yeah Ireland's doing well, but how many countries play it on a serious level? And as for two sports of our own (well you know if you mean hurley and football, then it should be at least three, you forgot handball) and almost every country will have a national sport, I don't think that should be seen as a counter to this report tbh.

davyjose

brianthebard wrote:

You think? whats the highest Ireland ever rated in soccer? 30th in the world? Consider the countries above us in that regard. Rugby, yeah Ireland's doing well, but how many countries play it on a serious level? And as for two sports of our own (well you know if you mean hurley and football, then it should be at least three, you forgot handball) and almost every country will have a national sport, I don't think that should be seen as a counter to this report tbh.

First of all, Ireland's highest Fifa ranking was actually 5th. As for rugby, that is a particularly negative attitude to a Sport that is played Worldwide. I agree that Rugby might not be as far reaching as other sports (but not that many team sports) but I think only the most dedicated could find a problem with Ireland's position in Rugby. And I know your point is that in other more popular sports, we are not world beaters, but these are the sports we choose to play. You offer some kid a Rugby ball or a pair of swimming togs and see which one he chooses.
Yes, I was referring to Football and Hurling, but as you yourself pointed out, where most countries have a (implying singular) national sport, we have THREE!
I don't wish to sound snappy, but given the population of our Nation (Roughly 1/12th Englands; 1/20th Germany's), I can't see there being a huge issue with regard to our sporting prowess.
The OP mentioned that similar sized countries, such as NZ had a better infrastructure, but I don't see that. Yes our performances can be seen as sporadic, but nonetheless impressive. In the 80's Sean Kelly and stephen roche, dominated Cycling. Both of them still holding records unbeaten since (Roches triple crown shared with only 1 man - Sean Kelly 6 years as world No.1) We have seen Sonia O'Sullivan win World & European Championships. And I just don't have the time or will to go into the numerous boxing triumphs, or golf triumphs, or any other Sport I might have missed. (And while some of these people went abroad to ply their trade, they developed their abilities here). These are indeed remote and infrequent moments, but tell me, what's so great that New Zealand have done? Or belgium? Or any other country with a population of less than ten million, for that matter? And if you think of any, let me know their national Sport.

Pherekydes

davyjose wrote:

...what's so great that New Zealand have done?...And if you think of any, let me know their national Sport.

Rugby union, anyone?

brianthebard

davyjose wrote:

First of all, Ireland's highest Fifa ranking was actually 5th. As for rugby, that is a particularly negative attitude to a Sport that is played Worldwide. I agree that Rugby might not be as far reaching as other sports (but not that many team sports) but I think only the most dedicated could find a problem with Ireland's position in Rugby. And I know your point is that in other more popular sports, we are not world beaters, but these are the sports we choose to play. You offer some kid a Rugby ball or a pair of swimming togs and see which one he chooses.
Yes, I was referring to Football and Hurling, but as you yourself pointed out, where most countries have a (implying singular) national sport, we have THREE!
I don't wish to sound snappy, but given the population of our Nation (Roughly 1/12th Englands; 1/20th Germany's), I can't see there being a huge issue with regard to our sporting prowess.
The OP mentioned that similar sized countries, such as NZ had a better infrastructure, but I don't see that. Yes our performances can be seen as sporadic, but nonetheless impressive. In the 80's Sean Kelly and stephen roche, dominated Cycling. Both of them still holding records unbeaten since (Roches triple crown shared with only 1 man - Sean Kelly 6 years as world No.1) We have seen Sonia O'Sullivan win World & European Championships. And I just don't have the time or will to go into the numerous boxing triumphs, or golf triumphs, or any other Sport I might have missed. (And while some of these people went abroad to ply their trade, they developed their abilities here). These are indeed remote and infrequent moments, but tell me, what's so great that New Zealand have done? Or belgium? Or any other country with a population of less than ten million, for that matter? And if you think of any, let me know their national Sport.

You missed my point regarding national sports, the study isn't about them. They are about the way we produce international sports stars, which isn't very well. If you have a counter to the lack of coherent work being done to progress sports beyond football and rugby then I'd love to hear it, but saying that because we are a small country and shouldn't expect to do well, or that some of our sportstars had to go abroad to progress is really just showing the problems that the report in the OP is pointing out.

mushykeogh

New Zealand 2004 olympics: 3 gold ,2 silver
Belgium:1 gold, 2 bronze
Slovak republic: 2 gold 2 silver 2 bronze
Slovenia:1 silver 3 bronze,

similar sized countries, better sporting infrastructure,better facilities, better coaching, better long term athlete development than whats currently in place. Ask anyone working in delivering high performance sport in ireland at the moment and they will tell you that we lag behind by international standards, the development of young athletes in this country is in its infancy, one organisation leading the way is the amauter boxing association but as a nation we are still trying to catch up especially in individual sport. Rugby is only recently benifiting from its development plan and infrastructure put in place around 1996/7.

davyjose

Slow Coach, If Rugby is New Zealand's national Sport (and it's a big If, considering the Sport was developed a lot closer to where I'm sat now than Auckland or Christchurch), then I rest my case: At least Ireland's three National Sports are ones in which we are the best at. NZ might be the best now - but that is not always the case. Anyway, I was told in a previous post that we cannot count Rugby as it is somehow regarded as a minority sport. Unlike those medals that Belgium (which with a population of 11 million was an example to show that there are countries I can think of at random with more to worry about us), Slovakia, Slovenia and New Zealand won at the Olympics, which I am sure are truly popular sports. Not being smart, but the Olympics is a bad example, because apart from (and not all) track events and swimming, most of the Sports are minoritys.
I realise that I'm running the risk of sounding biased, and I agree there are problems, for years the swimming pool situation was (and to an extent still is) an embarrassment, as is the track situation, but our population is such that we have to cater to the popular sports. I made a point about Tennis courts before, but thinking about it, it's understandable. People don't play Tennis, they play Football (Soccer and GAA), Hurling, Rugby. Perhaps it's because it's in our nature to be sociable that we don't generally go in for individual sports - something which the olympics caters for almost exclusively; if you can give me a good reason why Rugby - an amateur sport for over 100 years - has never been made an olympic sport, in place of table tennis or synchronised diving, i'd like to hear it.

justsomebloke

davyjose wrote:

Until recently we've had a consistently highly ranked Football(Soccer) team, one of the best Rugby nations in the World, and a sport (2 actually) of our very own, known as GAA.

In relation to soccer how many of the Irish team play soccer in Ireland though, is this not a case that we have a decent team due to the fact that these people are trained in another country from a yound age and so actually getting good foreign coaching.
In relation to GAA as it isn't played by any other country it is hard to compare the standard of the players on the world stage. truthfull y the only game you can compare it to is aussie rules whos players not only phyisically beat us but mentally beat us in the last couple of mixed rules series due to the better training methods (this is mostly muted by the fact that the aussie rules players are professional however I don't think this can fully expalin the differences).
In realtion to rugby yes I think this is one of the few success stories we can take, that quite a while ago the IRFU took the game into it's own hands and establihed a good set up, however if and when the rest of the other 6 nations teams fully get the own houses in order it will only be seen then if we can still remain the second best team in the northern hemisphere

thirtyfoot

davyjose wrote:

but our population is such that we have to cater to the popular sports.

So are you saying we should focus only on the popular sports, which are all male sports. What about the ladies, what shall we have them do? There is more to sport than the Sky Sports sports.

In a sporting structures context Ireland has been third world, but big improvements are being made. Anyone who works at grass-roots in the non Sky Sports sports will tell you that its almost need to have a vocation (its the same in the Sky Sports sports but there is more support). Kelly, Roche and O' Sullivan were freaks, and it definitely wasn't the system that made them.

GreeBo

davyjose wrote:

I played a lot of Tennis in my teens. Show me somewhere now where I can go for the odd game of tennis, without needing some kind of exclusive membership?

On the SouthSide you have Marley Park with tarmac 8 courts and grass courts in summer.

daymobrew

DCU now have a Sports Academy. They are concentrating on GAA, athletics and tennis.
And top people can apply for a sports scholarship.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Rogueish

Just to let ye know the NSCA are holding a much bigger confrence in Ireland this Summer. For the first time you can take their Strength and Conditioning exam and Personal Trainer exam here in Ireland (previously you had to travel to the U.K.).

Ireland is only now starting to realise the importance of modern training methods on the performance and development of athletes from a young age. I know that rugby may be considered to be a minority sport in Ireland but at the same time it has made huge strides in their development programmes for young potential athletes.

They have introduced strength and conditioning (age applicable) at a young age and developed it through. And don't give me the bull about kids lifting weights - if it is correctly developed according to the specific needs of the sport and the athlete then it is ok. Check out Avery Faigenbaum's (one of the NSCA speakers at the Galway confrence) progressive medicine ball programme for kids. They are taught technique before they even touch a weight.

In GAA the funding isn't there at grass roots level to allow volunteer coaches to do these courses and learn how to develop the young athlete and progress the older athlete outside of the next championship match. Each coach must learn how to implement a 3-5 year plan to develop their athletes.

Transform

Taking 3 scholarship athletes next week for vo2 max fitness test and nutrition consultations - i expect they will all need major overhaul just the same as most irish athletes i have met.

thirtyfoot

Transform wrote:

Taking 3 scholarship athletes next week for vo2 max fitness test and nutrition consultations - i expect they will all need major overhaul just the same as most irish athletes i have met.

Thats interesting. Obviously without namimg names, do you have any examples of previous vo2 max results for various athletes and various sports in the country, I'd be surprised if endurance athletes at the scholarship level of things had shabby vo2 results.

davyjose

GreeBo wrote:

On the SouthSide you have Marley Park with tarmac 8 courts and grass courts in summer.

Great, I'll start warming up now shall I?

thirtyfoot

http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie/publications/release.asp?ID=1834

Sport will be getting a big chunk as part of the NDP, might help close the gap on infrastructure.

Its funny how much support horse racing gets, considering it got nearly 30% of the sports capital grants already last year. We can talk about minority and majority sports, but in the Govt's eyes it seems this is the main sport, if you can call it a sport. Good news for the four legged athletes and those who weight 7st and stand 4ft10, pretty elitist sport with big barriers to entry!