God Save the Queen & Croke Park

Mike...

On November 21, 1920 Croke Park was the scene of a massacre by the Auxiliary Division. British police auxiliaries entered the ground, shooting indiscriminately into the crowd killing 13 during a Dublin-Tipperary football match. The dead included 12 spectators and one player, Michael Hogan. The latter, Tipperary's captain, gave his name posthumously to the Hogan stand built four years later in 1924.

In that same stand on 24 February 2007, the anthem of the murders and assassin’s of 1920 will ring out in the field, ground and stand’s that commemorate Michael Hogan.
The occasion is the Ireland v England Rugby match for the 6 Nations championship.

What’s your view on this?

Winters

Move the **** on. History is histroy, get the **** over it and enjoy the sport and win the game

walrusgumble

did you ever see apres match during the summer? remember the sketch of tat micheall whats his name, the gaa stimulator of foreign sports into gaa? well on sketch had him talking to the character of terry venables and on comes brian kennedy (i love everything) singing god save the queen in irish. michael gives him a good slap. terry asks hi "why you do that". micheal says "he was enjoying it too much"

to be honest it is time to move on. many british citizens were actually appaled from what the the news that they heard coming from ireland. one thing about the rugby fans, even the english, they are not biggoted c*nts, gentlemen, they will prob be sitting next to an irish fan sipping on a pint of guinness shout their respective teams on. now i would be a tad bit worried if it was the soccer crowd and depending on the situation up in the north at that time. by no means am i anti soccer after gaa it the best, i am referring to the british supporters and not irish supporters.

(incidently if it were a soccer match, what is the guarantee that the irish would not boo the british anthem, i remember ireland v denmark in one of mick mccarthy last friendlies, a danish sub's id was mistaken for a former rangers player had he was booed constantly when he got the ball, later the actual next ranger player came on) how did that makes us any better than the brits?

i am sure the various die hard gaa members of county boards are aware of there history and some might have took this into account, whn they met to allow the motion of the "garrison games" lol to be played in croker.

maybe it is a good sign of progress between the two nations. after all we are islands and seperated from mainland europe, we gotta look out for each other on various issues while expanding ourselves to the rest of the world.

vesp

walrusgumble wrote:

did you ever see apres match during the summer? remember the sketch of tat micheall whats his name, the gaa stimulator of foreign sports into gaa? well on sketch had him talking to the character of terry venables and on comes brian kennedy (i love everything) singing god save the queen in irish. michael gives him a good slap. terry asks hi "why you do that". micheal says "he was enjoying it too much"

to be honest it is time to move on. many british citizens were actually appaled from what the the news that they heard coming from ireland. one thing about the rugby fans, even the english, they are not biggoted c*nts, gentlemen, they will prob be sitting next to an irish fan sipping on a pint of guinness shout their respective teams on. now i would be a tad bit worried if it was the soccer crowd and depending on the situation up in the north at that time. by no means am i anti soccer after gaa it the best, i am referring to the british supporters and not irish supporters.

(incidently if it were a soccer match, what is the guarantee that the irish would not boo the british anthem, i remember ireland v denmark in one of mick mccarthy last friendlies, a danish sub's id was mistaken for a former rangers player had he was booed constantly when he got the ball, later the actual next ranger player came on) how did that makes us any better than the brits?

i am sure the various die hard gaa members of county boards are aware of there history and some might have took this into account, whn they met to allow the motion of the "garrison games" lol to be played in croker.

maybe it is a good sign of progress between the two nations. after all we are islands and seperated from mainland europe, we gotta look out for each other on various issues while expanding ourselves to the rest of the world.

Have to agree with you on a lot of the above, fair play.

smashey

I wish they would play it tomorrow so we could get this whole thing out of the way.

The Americans dropped two atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and I have no doubt that their anthem has been played in both those cities on numerous occasions.

RobertFoster

I think you're missing the bigger picture. If it's a rugby match it means "Irelands Call" is going to be played in Croker too! :eek:

Seriously though, I've not seen much respect shown to Amhrán na bhFiann at any GAA matches I've been to, it's often halved by people blowing horns and whistles and shouting etc., what'll they care if God Save the Queen is played?

Victor

walrusgumble wrote:

to be honest it is time to move on. many british citizens were actually appaled from what the the news that they heard coming from ireland.

Right up to and including the King.

lounge_lizard

I have moved here from the UK and my natural mother (I was adopted at 6 weeks) was originally from Galway. I have experienced some anti British behavior here. My girlfriend who is Irish, has a friend who works for the social, her husband often makes a snide remark about the English, but I don't let him rile me. He has the problem not me. (your embassy had to be rebuilt cos we blew it up, you taught us the fecking language so why correct us when we use other words - press instead of cupboard I explained we called it a cupboard because originally it was a board for cups!)

I grew up in Cheltenham, where the Gold Cup horse racing is held, I have never actually been there as a paying punter, but have worked as a security steward for 15 years. I never had any problems with the Irish it was always the English who got pi55ed, started fights, sold dodgy gear, did find the lady etc.

I notice you play the Irish anthem at the end of a disco here, I say good on yas, wish we were more patriotic. They say England is the most patriotic country but I know plenty of people who don't even know the second verse to our anthem.

Land of Hope & Glory would be better anyway, I wonder who came up with the generic words 'god save our noble queen/king'? someone who had to make it up in a hurry maybe? (wrote it for king, king died 6 months later, had to change to queen!?)

I have settled here and am finding it a bit of a culture shock, but I prefer the slower pace, friendlier people, cheaper clothes and electricals, and the fact that people are more likely to talk to you in a bus queue than in the UK. ('Oh no, I've got the nutter standing next to me, go away, can I get a cab, train, pretend on my phone!')

Anyway I was never that patriotic, but I do observe the armistice, the London Al Quada bombings, and the 9/11 remembrance. that is because I was in the Army for 12 years and have lost a lot of friends. I lost 3 friends in the 9/11 attack and that's why I reported a recent Nigerian 419 scam to the ISP and email provider of the scammer.

Well that's my 2cents worth, (still getting used to the Euro!) take it easy all and good luck for the match. (I don't follow any sport so have no views on that)

Lizard

Fratton Fred

It had to happen sometime and a Rugby match is probably he best place to start. Rugby crows are usually a lot friendlier and less political than football crowds so hopefully it will go off ok.

This is a question I have asked at work and generally people have not realised the significance of it, if anything, the English fans may be more conscious of it than the Irish.

kippy

The Americans dropped two atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and I have no doubt that their anthem has been played in both those cities on numerous occasions

Brilliant comment, the same could be said for the English anthem played in the cities of many of its former colonies.

It is time to move on-not to forget-but to move on. Things have changed a lot in the last 90 or so years.

europerson

I think that the playing of God Save The Queen in Croke Park will be one of modern Ireland's proudest moments. I can't wait.

boneless

If the Scots can handle it in Murrayfield despite the verse which calls for the massacre of their race (not often sung I know!!) then we can handle it in Croker... I will sing the 'Internationale' instead of both anthems!!

Mike...

smashey wrote:

The Americans dropped two atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and I have no doubt that their anthem has been played in both those cities on numerous occasions.

Hopefully the Americans will have the same thought in mind when opening the replacement of the World Trade Center and invite Abu Hamza al-Masri to do a prayer service......

Mike...

europerson wrote:

I think that the playing of God Save The Queen in Croke Park will be one of modern Ireland's proudest moments. I can't wait.

Why?????????

csk

Why is this in history? Could a mod move please?

Anyway while I'm here I'll throw my 2c in.

I think the significance of this occasion is lost on alot of people especially judging by some of the comments made here.

As others have said this is a genuine chance to move away from the past and should be taken. The significance of an All-Ireland rugby team playing England in the home of idigenous Irish sport should not be underestimated.

The Irish rugby team are a shining example of what can be achieved when the people of this island come together, while the GAA for all the good it has done(and make no mistake it has done plenty of good for Ireland) is sometimes indicative of the Irish characteristic of "anti-Britishness".

The symbolism of these two sentiments coming together in Croke Park will be a proud day for Ireland.

God Save the Queen playing in Croke Park will be a proud day for Ireland...
if done right.

Not to mark this occasion would, in my opinion, be a mistake and would only serve to show we have learned nothing from the past.
A minutes silence for those that died in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday (at the very least) should be held, in fact I would say extend it to all those who have died in the various conflicts between our two countries.

All those who have said "get the fcuk over it, it's in the fcukin past" etc. are just as pathetic as those who will no doubt say "remember the past look what the Brits did" etc. To just bury your head in the sand is, in my opinion, disgusting.

As I said, the significance of this match should not be undersestimated. This, to me anyway, is a genuine chance for a new beginning, it should not be missed.

smashey

*mono* wrote:

Hopefully the Americans will have the same thought in mind when opening the replacement of the World Trade Center and invite Abu Hamza al-Masri to do a prayer service......

Well I would think that all religions will be represented when the time comes.

nodger

csk wrote:

A minutes silence for those that died in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday (at the very least) should be held, in fact I would say extend it to all those who have died in the various conflicts between our two countries.

Why do that? It's a sporting occasion, not a political one. I think the vast majority of Irish and English fans would be satisfied just to see a great game of rugby being played in a top class stadium. Why politicise the occasion and make things uncomfortable for the English fans who make the trip over here? Most of them probably never even heard of the Croke Park massacre. A certain number of English football fans may be men of questionable moral standing, but I've had pints with many an English rugby fan over the years and they're always perfectly decent folks.

csk

nodger wrote:

Why do that? It's a sporting occasion, not a political one. I think the vast majority of Irish and English fans would be satisfied just to see a great game of rugby being played in a top class stadium. Why politicise the occasion and make things uncomfortable for the English fans who make the trip over here? Most of them probably never even heard of the Croke Park massacre. A certain number of English football fans may be scumbags, but I've had pints with many an English rugby fan over the years and they're always perfectly decent folks.

Where did I say anything about English Rugby fans being "scumbags". What are you trying to get at?

In the words of FrattonFred, an Englishman (and I hope he doesn't mind me pointing that out:) )

FrattonFred wrote:

It had to happen sometime and a Rugby match is probably he best place to start. Rugby crows are usually a lot friendlier and less political than football crowds so hopefully it will go off ok.

This is a question I have asked at work and generally people have not realised the significance of it, if anything, the English fans may be more conscious of it than the Irish.

Now my suggestion is not aimed at somehow "shaming" any English Fans or tryng to make them uncomfortable and by no means ever think I am doing such a thing. I am fully aware of the good reputation of the English Rugby team fans.

However the game is "politicised" already by the hoo-haa about the Rule 42 and by the fact that men were killed by British Forces on Bloody Sunday on the very pitch those players will run out on. Now if we were to go by Fratton Fred's comments even English people are aware of it. I mean if it wasn't in some way "politicised" this thread would not exist, would it?

In the coming weeks this will be highlighted more and more as people indulge in the usual anti-british rants.

So why not head all that off by making a statement towards peace and reconciliation between the North and South and this Nation and the English Nation.

Do you not see what, an All-Ireland rugby team playing in the the home of indigenous Irish sport and one of the last bastions of "anti-Britishness" against the "auld enemy", could be used to symbolise ?

Erin Go Brath

I, for one think its great that Croke Park has opened its doors to these rugby games. The alternative would have been to move our home international fixture to another country, which ironically would've probably been England (so i guess that would technically then be an away game ).

I agree with csk that while we must look to the future, we also owe it to the people that were killed not to brush their memory under the carpet either on such an historic occasion. A minutes silence or some other form of remembrance, such as flags above the stadium been flown at half mast is I believe wholly appropriate for this occasion.

purple'n'gold

English rugby fans are usually decent ordinary sports followers that are out for a good game and a good time afterwards. Who ever heard of English rugby fans involved in any tragedies like Heysel stadium or Hillsborough?

smcgiff

Erin Go Brath wrote:

I agree with csk that while we must look to the future, we also owe it to the people that were killed not to brush their memory under the carpet either on such an historic occasion. A minutes silence or some other form of remembrance, such as flags above the stadium been flown at half mast is I believe wholly appropriate for this occasion.

:rolleyes:

Did we ever get an apology from the Danes for killing Brian Boru?

Hagar

Any chance someone could post up the words so that we could all learn them in time for the big day?
Maybe someone could stick it?
I know the very place...

purple'n'gold

Hagar wrote:

Any chance someone could post up the words so that we could all learn them in time for the big day?
Maybe someone could stick it?
I know the very place...

On official occasions, only the first verse is usually sung, as follows:

God save our gracious Queen!
Long live our noble Queen!
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.

An additional verse is occasionally sung:

Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour,
Long may she reign.
May she defend our laws,
And give us ever cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen.

----

smcgiff

And if you could stick up the Irish National Anthem it could come in handy too!

purple'n'gold

Did we ever get an apology from the Danes for killing Brian Boru?


did we ever apologize to the rest of the world for Big Tom's "singing"?

Hagar

Since you asked so nicely.
Maybe both of them could be stuck, at the top of the forum obviously.
Some people have no sense of humour.;)

Seo dhibh a cháirde duan Óglaigh,
Cathréimeach briomhar ceolmhar,
Ár dtinte cnámh go buacach táid,
'S an spéir go min réaltogach
Is fonnmhar faobhrach sinn chun gleo
'S go tiúnmhar glé roimh thíocht do'n ló
Fé chiúnas chaomh na hoiche ar seol:
Seo libh canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann
Curfá:
Sinne Firnna Fáil
A tá fé gheall ag Éirinn,
Buion dár slua
Thar toinn do ráinig chugainn,
Fé mhóid bheith saor.
Sean tír ár sinsir feasta
Ní fhagfar fé'n tiorán ná fé'n tráil
Anocht a théam sa bhearna bhaoil,
Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil
Le guna screach fé lámhach na bpiléar
Seo libh canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann.

2. Cois bánta réidhe, ar árdaibh sléibhe,
Ba bhuachach ár sinsir romhainn,
Ag lámhach go tréan fé'n sár-bhrat séin
Tá thuas sa ghaoith go seolta
Ba dhúchas riamh d'ár gcine cháidh
Gan iompáil siar ó imirt áir,
'S ag siúl mar iad i gcoinne námhad
Seo libh, canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann
Curfá: 3. A bhuíon nách fann d'fhuil Ghaeil is Gall,
Sin breacadh lae na saoirse,
Tá scéimhle 's scanradh i gcroíthe namhad,
Roimh ranna laochra ár dtire.
Ár dtinte is tréith gan spréach anois,
Sin luisne ghlé san spéir anoir,
'S an bíobha i raon na bpiléar agaibh:
Seo libh, canaídh Amhrán na bh Fiann.
Curfá:

Agus as Béarla

We'll sing a song, a soldier's song,
With cheering rousing chorus,
As round our blazing fires we throng,
The starry heavens o'er us;
Impatient for the coming fight,
And as we wait the morning's light,
Here in the silence of the night,
We'll chant a soldier's song.
Chorus:
Soldiers are we
Whose lives are pledged to Ireland;
Some have come
From a land beyond the wave.
Sworn to be free,
No more our ancient sire land
Shall shelter the despot or the slave.
Tonight we man the gap of danger
In Erin's cause, come woe or weal
'Mid cannons' roar and rifles peal,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

2. In valley green, on towering crag,
Our fathers fought before us,
And conquered 'neath the same old flag
That's proudly floating o'er us.
We're children of a fighting race,
That never yet has known disgrace,
And as we march, the foe to face,
We'll chant a soldier's song.
Chorus: 3. Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale!
The long watched day is breaking;
The serried ranks of Inisfail
Shall set the Tyrant quaking.
Our camp fires now are burning low;
See in the east a silv'ry glow,
Out yonder waits the Saxon foe,
So chant a soldier's song.
Chorus:

DublinWriter

*mono* wrote:

What’s your view on this?

I wonder how the Brits feel about the Irish raiding them and taking 1000's of their people as slaves in the 7th-9th centuries way before anyone ever taught of using Africa?

Or maybe the only history we should care about is the history made into biopics by Neil Jordan and Oliver Stone? You know, the history you can eat popcorn to?

"History is a nightmare from which I cannot wake" - James Joyce

"The only thing man has learnt from history is that man has learnt nothing from history" - Albert Einstein.

My take on it is that you can't look backward and forward at the same time.

If you want to be a true patriot then knock the chip off your shoulder and learn your country's dying language, one of the oldest and noblest in Europe. Make it live again.

If not, take the easy road and be a whingy armchair republican...chant Brits out...etc.

vesp

lounge_lizard wrote:

I have moved here from the UK and my natural mother (I was adopted at 6 weeks) was originally from Galway. I have experienced some anti British behavior here.

Welcome to Ireland lizard and do not let any bigotted or racist people upset you. I am Irish but I have also heard enough anti-British /anti-English / anti-Protestant comments ( especially from some people after a few pints ) to last a lifetime, but bear in mind not everyone is like that. It was worse say 20 or 30 years ago because jobs were scarcer, there were less immigrants, the catholic church had more of a hold then and tensions were higher in the north. Some people were just taught to hate everything remotely British ( burn everything British but their coal as they used to say in school ).

Aedh Baclamh

"I think that the playing of God Save The Queen in Croke Park will be one of modern Ireland's proudest moments. I can't wait."

Haha, no.

Thankfully I'll never hear it as I'll only be attending GAA matches in Croke Park.

nollaig

A certain number of English football fans may be men of questionable moral standing

Plenty of men of questionable moral standing among Irish soccer fans as well

Fratton Fred

Aedh Baclamh wrote:

"I think that the playing of God Save The Queen in Croke Park will be one of modern Ireland's proudest moments. I can't wait."

Haha, no.

Thankfully I'll never hear it as I'll only be attending GAA matches in Croke Park.

I'm sure the 80,000 that will be there will miss you dearly.:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

boneless wrote:

If the Scots can handle it in Murrayfield despite the verse which calls for the massacre of their race (not often sung I know!!) then we can handle it in Croker... I will sing the 'Internationale' instead of both anthems!!

the verse you refer to, which is never sung, actually talks about crushing the rebellious Scots. Not exactly a call to massacre their race.

At the time that was written, the Scots were pretty good at the odd Massacre themselves.

Anyway, one point of order, As we do not know the identity of the men who carried out the massacre at Croke park (remember also that 25 people died that day, 12 Police Officers were murdered by Michael Collins boys) they could just have easily been Scottish or Welsh, or Irish for that matter.

There quite often seems to be a confusion between England and Britain, the Queen of course being the head of state of both. I'm not saying it is not a significant occasion and that it should not be recognised in some way, but it is not as black and white as it wold initially appear.

on thesubject of massacres as well, I'm dreading a massacre of another kind that day:o

InFront

The only disgraceful thing about this is the price of the tickets through unoffical lines!
I find it strange that this is an issue or made out to be a historical rivalry outside of the simple rivalry it ought to be: friendly sporting rivalry between GAA and rugby. This happened in 1920, nobody who was involved is alive. Why do we try to hang on to other people's grim memories do tenaciously?

If I were a betting man, I would be willing to bet very confidently that there will be nothing but friendly banter between the two sets of rugby fans, just as it has been in the past.

But as walrusgumble correctly said, the Irish and British soccer fans, who both have a poor record, are the ones to watch. That is where we might see old historical (bigotted) rivalries emerge. I hope not.

Anyway, while an Ireland-England rugby match is never something to be ignored... I don't see this one as especially historic. Not being a GAA fan, I can't say the match in Croke park will have any real meaning attached, apart from a great new venue for Irsih Rugby!:)

walrusgumble

any relevance? well hopefully another glorious win for ireland fot their third triple crown and dare i say it grandslam. (please god but never under estimate the french or the english)

incidently, the irish soccer fans(international matches are well behaved. i know no one disputes that) as for domestic, anyone who follows the league of ireland know the usual suspects. i am worried though because films like green st and football factory have warped some kids into thinking its cool thus shaming our clubs (athlone town v galway utd last season and athlone town v shamrock rovers both shown on tg4) i think the english fa (who cant get all the stick and would be remeber lansdowne 1995) are getting their act together, the british behaved in germany. anyway as csk said earlier, this aint relevant to history and hertiage (but then again sport is part of our hertiage, all codes of sport,i am sure people know co.kerry was ruby mad before the gaa fever kicked in).

how much does anyone bet that the gaa stimulator of foreign games into croker lol and other big whigs at gaa hq will get some notice, maybe have an gaa and hurling exhibition match before the big game , a irish club v a club from london (childrens team). maybe the english would like to see what the game is all about? what be really class, get both teams parade around the field to the sound of the artane boys band. pitch invasion gaa style after (joking terrible idea, but would freak our friends across the water out for the craic)

ah man, get pat spillane in with hook and pope (brilliant tv, just imagine it)

csk made an intersting point earlier about a minute silence, and this has already been discussed, but from a sporting view, maybe at half time get a few from both nations giants of ruby be brought out to the pitch and greet the crowd (like they do on an all ireland final day, maybe martin morrisey will get that gig lol)

anyway i am sure many english supporters will be as much amazed by the stadium as we are and might take a trip in to the gaa musuem in the hogan stand before the game. elverys sport shop will make a killing with merchndise (rugby shirts of course)

Fratton Fred

I think the England fan would appreciate a boys band or an exhibition match of that mad hockey type game you play

But please, on behalf of all my fellow Englishmen, none of that awful folk music you play over here.....:D

csk

walrusgumble wrote:

well hopefully another glorious win for ireland fot their third triple crown and dare i say it grandslam. (please god but never under estimate the french or the english)

Here here. Although it's the French and Welsh we really have to worry about.;)

Ah scratch the minutes silence. I think to welcome and honour our English Friends to Croke park ,we should just beat them by a cricket score instead

FrattonFred wrote:

But please, on behalf of all my fellow Englishmen, none of that awful folk music you play over here.....

I hear the Wolfe Tones are free that weekend...*
















* I kid

walrusgumble

fair enough we will leave the folk music out, any suggestions for music, "swing low sweet chariot.............." go on ireland

Erin Go Brath

csk wrote:

I hear the Wolfe Tones are free that weekend...*

lol

Seriously I dont think think they should play God Save The Queen. We should play an arbitrary English song instead..... The theme tune to the Benny Hill show would be fitting. The English pack can be the girls, while Brian O Driscoll will be Benny. (They'll spend the game chasing him around the place). Haha

walrusgumble

InFront wrote:

Anyway, while an Ireland-England rugby match is never something to be ignored... I don't see this one as especially historic. Not being a GAA fan, I can't say the match in Croke park will have any real meaning attached, apart from a great new venue for Irsih Rugby!:)

i apperiate you are not a gaa fan, but i reckon a chap like yourself knows a bit of its history. maybe i am making a big deal of it here with my response but....

to the gaa in a way it is an historical event. while the gaa was always a promtion of irish culture ( remember scor na nog, music competion) in any it was a bit inclusive. some examples include prohibition of members of the ruc (now psni) and british army from playing gaa (now abolished and repealed in the late 1990's): or the prohibition of gaa members from playing any garrison game (cricket, rugby, soccer etc) again abolished since 1971? and now the temporary repeal of rule 42.and waht better way to open croker than with a game of the auld enmey ot those from across the water (friendly rivalary of course)

if you noticed my earlier post (i am sure you have) footie fans who made apres match took the merciful pis* (rightly so) out of the gaa. it would have been horrible for rugny or soccer fans to have to go to england or scotland to see our national teams play their home games (particularily where they have hosted nfl games and many british musician's concerts). croker was ideal. the gaa have now opened their door and showed that they are forward looking. next stop dominate the further worldwide promotion of the game

InFront

Well I hope it does promote their game, and although I don't have any particular allegiances to it (because Im crap at it) the GAA is in my opinion the best thing to come out of irish nationalism. Nobody has ever been killed fighting for the GAA and it promotes nothing but decency, healthy living, sportsmanship and a clean attitude. Politicians could learn a lot.

I cannot appreciate that this should be afforded any significance in the 1920 context, because nobody can, nor should they, offer any apology or accept any apology because we are all removed from that. That was the misfortune of other, dead people. It has nothing to do with any of us.

However, yes you are of course correct, this has great historical significance for the promotion of sport be it hurling or rugby or soccer, and I see sport as being the real, and deserved winner.
But that is where its meaning should end. Forget 1920, it is none of our collective business.

walrusgumble

true.

Snickers Man

Fratton Fred wrote:

But please, on behalf of all my fellow Englishmen, none of that awful folk music you play over here.....:D

Hoy!! If there's any apologising to be done for crimes against humanity it should be for that bloody awful Morris dancing complete with knee bells and clacking sticks that you lot have given the world.

And I believe it's very popular down Portsmouth way.

As to the issue at hand: I think it will be a marvellous day and a very proud moment when God Save the Queen (if she's still with us) is played at Croke Park. It shows that an English national team can come to the home of Ireland's national sport and be treated with exactly the same courtesy that any other visiting nation would be afforded. An Irish and English team will do battle on the field as representatives of each other's nations, each with their own anthem (or anthems in our case ) played before the start of the game.

That will say more about reconciliation and acceptance of each other's equal status than any minute's silence or wreath laying service ever could.

Fair play to the last leadership of the GAA for helping that motion through and ending the insulting silliness of the notion that those who played rugby or soccer for Ireland were any less Irish than those who chose to play football or hurling for Kerry or Kilkenny.

Jackie laughlin

Am I absolutely alone in going off this idea? As a working class, soccer-playing, Dublin kid I was persecuted by my teachers who were bigots. They forced me to play Gaelic. The school yard was policed and boys who didn't handle the ball were beaten. These days I watch the Artane Band (Isn't it incomprehensible that their name was not changed? God help us, they were even at the cup final this year!) march around Croke Park and I tend to see the whole place as a monument to bigotry unworthy of having an Irish national team play there.

InFront

Lots of us were forced to do things we didn't want to as kids, sometimes we were dragged by the ear into doing it. That hardly amounts to 'persecution'.

There is no alterior motive in sport, its fundamental philosophy lies in personal development. Croke Park is not a monument to bigotry, it is a monument to sportsmanship, demonstrated by the skill, dedication and attitude of players who have played there in the past and - thanks to the camaraderie of its authorities - by those who will play there in the very near future.

walrusgumble

in front fare enough, but that aint really what the last poster is referring too in that way. back in the day when priests and brothers where teachers, they forced gaa to be palyed (especially in rural areas) and it was seen that if ya didnt play somehow you were anti irish (in eyes of some of the clergy, who contributed greatly to the game)


soccer was truely seen as the garrison british game, hence all those pre historic realics, remember in prior to 1971 memebrs of the gaa couldnt play or be seen at a soccer/rugby/hockey or cricket match are they be banned from the game.

anyway coker is only temporarily opened for a few years to it, so long as fai get their act together and help out irfu in funding lansdowne, everything while be sweet

alias, kids can now play what they want today

Jackie laughlin

InFront,
You might read my post again. I was forced to do things I didn't like by my parents. At school things were altogether different. I was persecuted by Gaelic bigots. Gaelic games were politicised. That kind of pseudo nationalism is gone. I played a tiny part in its demise by holding firm to my Irish culture.

I asked a question in my post. Am I alone in feeling a sense of betrayal that a national team will play in Croke Park? Frankly, I was delighted when the decision was first made and now I'm surprised at my developing feelings.

Incidentally, I have no problem with Gaelic culture; I speak Irish.

InFront

No I can appreciate the historical situation, but that's all it is - history.

I don't see why you see the current GAA headquarters as "a monument to bigotry unworthy of having an irish national team play there"? Why? The GAA are a sporting organization - they may once have had a political agenda to some degree - but that is not the case now. There is simply no reason for an irish team not to play at Croke Park.

walrusgumble

there are def people out there who dispise the gaa cause they were forced to play, and thats only in recent years. (2 of my mates in particular who are soccer heads)

but jackie, more than likely, when the rugby and soccer lads play there they will have their own people working in croker on the day eg stewards etc .

good point on the artane "abused" boys bad though. but to be far the players will relish playing in a better stadium, hopefully there be more tickets and beter oppurtunity for more supporters to come. i guess in the world of money that what the fai,irfu and gaa or ga will be concerned with. sure i am sure even the irish lads were also forced to play gaa, kevin doyle was a ga head once.

in some ways in front is right, things have changed and its tough luck to the gaa. maybe had they had a different approach to their promotion of the game back in the day maybe less people be hostile to it.now thats not to say, ah look jackie its all in the past move on, that be wrong cause id say ye were hard done by (ie not having a say on what sport ya could play in school) but i guess if there was another venue in ireland capable of holding soccer/rugby games then maybe croker would never have been considered.

at least its only a temporary arrangement (hopefully from a gaa perspective and time for dublin/ireland to have 2 great sporting stadiums )

Jackie laughlin

Walrus,
Thank you. You are right. As I said I'm surprised to find myself thinking in this way. The idea of a NATIONAL team playing in a stadium which was for so long about divisiveness and brutality is hard to take. When the soccer team takes to the field with the Irish lads born in England, it's always given me a lift.

purple'n'gold

These days I watch the Artane Band (Isn't it incomprehensible that their name was not changed? God help us, they were even at the cup final this year!)

agree with you completely, the name of the band should be changed. Actually the entire area of Dublin called artane should be renamed. The very name must bring back terrible memories for former inmates who were abused and tortured there by “Christian brothers”

stipey

I think the only people who would be bother by GSTQ being played in Croker are your typical barstool republicans who think that because they wear a celtic jersey, chant "Oh! Ah! Up the Ra!" and bleat on about "800 years of oppression" that they are as patriotic and noble as Pearse and co.