Nokia/Meteor Bastards!

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Recon

I'm sure that if there is water damage they usually take a photo (or show you the phone) and show you where the supposed water damage is. SO you could ask to see that maybe.

bmaxi

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054970642&referrerid=&
highlight=&nojs=1#usercptools
This topic has been raised before. It seems this water damage thing is a convenient get out clause for the phone companies.

cwynnes

Yeah iv seen that problem before, its not necesarily a problem with the software, unfortunately it most likely is water damage and cant be fixed under warranty because the warranty doesnt cover accident.... its only a technical warranty, the reason the handset symbol comes up is because of a short circuit....caused by water...if u look at the bottom of the phone at the pins it might show some green scum at the bottom...if thats the case its water damage...if its not there (probly wont be because the shop could have cleaned it) ask for photographic evidence, all repair centres are set up for that, when you look at the photo, look for a bit with green scum...thatll be the water...hope that helps....sorry about your phone

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Doctor DooM

I would like to point out that every time this topic comes up, it breaks down to some people saying that its a "convenient excuse", and then a rake of people who work in the industry disproving it. Explain this- a Nokia service centre doesnt get paid if they dont fix your phone. So if they could, wouldnt they?

bmaxi

SDooM wrote:

I would like to point out that every time this topic comes up, it breaks down to some people saying that its a "convenient excuse", and then a rake of people who work in the industry disproving it. Explain this- a Nokia service centre doesnt get paid if they dont fix your phone. So if they could, wouldnt they?

The bone of contention is,the 'phone companies make it a condition of warranty,something that it is virtually impossible for the user to comply with, let alone dispute.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

gerryo

SDooM wrote:

I would like to point out that every time this topic comes up, it breaks down to some people saying that its a "convenient excuse", and then a rake of people who work in the industry disproving it. Explain this- a Nokia service centre doesnt get paid if they dont fix your phone. So if they could, wouldnt they?

They also get paid for technical investigations - a nice earner I'm sure.

Works out well for the phone seller + the service centre if there is "water damage" to a new phone, user gets nothing.

Having said that, with the weather lately there can't be many dry phones left in the country:rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm

funny how every faulty phone turns out to be water damaged.....

Garth

Used to work admin in a Nokia service centre (years ago). We were only able to bill for phones we actually fixed. (not "investigated")

In the beginning, the boss had the engineer try and repair everything, even if water damanged, but they would all come back so they had to stop. Even if you "fix" a water damaged phone, unless you replace the (water damaged) board, it will continue to have faults.

People are such morons when collecting their phones. There were people who got so angry the gards had to be called as they were threatening to knife people on their way home, some started CRYING. Seriously, I've never seen such a thing before or since!

IMO people don't get paid enough to deal with jerks like that. If you have a complaint, sue nokia. Otherwise, stop pissing on your phones.

Random

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

funny how every faulty phone turns out to be water damaged.....

Every phone? ...

Gillo

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

funny how every faulty phone turns out to be water damaged.....

ciaranfo wrote:

Every phone? ...

No doubt he has the proof to back up his claim.

Having said that it has been a few weeks since a thread like this, and in the spirit or repeatitive threads, I am on my way over to Paranormal to start a Most Haunted thread, then over to fashion to start a How Does This Outfit Look, stroll over to PI to ask why No One Loves Me & finally on to Feedback to complain about been banned for no good reason.

7.Ronaldo

I dont see how you can blame your service provider on this one. The fault was with the handset. That means you deal with the manufacturer(in this case Nokia). I agree with the others who have said it would have been in Nokia's best interest to fix the phone. That way they get paid for the repair and they dont have to deal with an irate customer.

If the report comes back saying the phone has been water damaged and you feel it's a cop out then you can take it to an independent repair company(although Sigma are independent, they do work closely with phone companies) who would have absolutely no reason to bull**** you. If they produce different results then your still under warranty, otherwise you get on with it.

Gillo

7.Ronaldo wrote:

I agree with the others who have said it would have been in Nokia's best interest to fix the phone. That way they get paid for the repair and they dont have to deal with an irate customer.

No nokia would not get paid for the repair. Who would pay them?
Joe Duffy doesn't and the last time I checked the UN had slightly more pressing matters.

gerryo

Garth wrote:

Used to work admin in a Nokia service centre (years ago). We were only able to bill for phones we actually fixed. (not "investigated").

Jaesus..do the phone shops think tech folks work for free, or just love looking at circuit boards. Who agreed to that service contract? TV repair places charge for investigative work & also for insurance claim reports.

Garth wrote:

In the beginning, the boss had the engineer try and repair everything, even if water damanged, but they would all come back so they had to stop. Even if you "fix" a water damaged phone, unless you replace the (water damaged) board, it will continue to have faults.").

True.. usually not worth it. Will never be as reliable as when it left the phone shop.

Garth wrote:

People are such morons when collecting their phones. There were people who got so angry the guards had to be called as they were threatening to knife people on their way home, some started CRYING. Seriously, I've never seen such a thing before or since!.

Guess phones are all that stand between some folks & insanity.
It's a phone, not built to travel thru space, it's going to fail sometime soon..plan for it people!

Garth wrote:

IMO people don't get paid enough to deal with jerks like that. If you have a complaint, sue nokia. Otherwise, stop pissing on your phones.

Don't think anybody who deals with the public ever gets paid enough for it, hope you went on to better things.

Dylan_James

Hey Gillo

Good to see you posting about phones again. I think the last time we had this debate you rightly proved wrong on every point you made.

Someone else posted that water damage to the circuit board would mean the circuit board would need replacement.

About 3 months ago my laptop had some serious problems. The battery wouldn’t charge, RAM died and the screen would die every few minutes. I got on to the makers in the UK, who in fairness aren’t a leading maker or brand name but do use the latest equipment, they asked me to send it back to them. After all, all their laptops came with a 3 year warranty.

I sent it back via UPS at my own expense (about €100) and waited. A week later they rang me and said it was fixed and they could send it back at anytime. I asked what the problem was. They told me something blew on the motherboard and this had affected everything else. They replaced the motherboard and RAM. The screen was fixed and the battery charging. A couple of days later I got it back along with a cheque for €100.

Now if a small to mid-range maker of laptops can change a motherboard with 2 64bit processors attached how come the world leading phone maker can’t change a circuit board for you. All this is conjecture of course if the phone isn’t water damaged, which once again, it appears that Sigma engineers have been proved wrong.

Nody

Dylan_James wrote:

Now if a small to mid-range maker of laptops can change a motherboard with 2 64bit processors attached how come the world leading phone maker can’t change a circuit board for you. All this is conjecture of course if the phone isn’t water damaged, which once again, it appears that Sigma engineers have been proved wrong.

Phones have a expected life length of around 1 to 2 years (stated by both Sony and Nokia in a on going case in Norway regarding warranty for reference).

Also the company you qoute would not actually be the once footing the bill as they pass it back on warranty to their reseller for replacement. They only cost they took, and that cost could very well be passed back/insured as well would be the €100 check to you.

Dylan_James

I bought the laptop directly from the companies website. I wouldnt be 100% sure on this but it looks to me they hire another company to fix them. Now that would mean all the cost was debited from the makers.

Heisenberg.

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TerrorFirmer

The water damage excuse is really annoying. People do claim, that it's a remarkable coincidence, that everyone seems to encounter this issue. But co-incidence or not, I can state that several times I've experienced the 'water damage' report with phones that have most definately not been in contact with anything other then maybe a drop or two of rain.

Random

HavoK wrote:

The water damage excuse is really annoying. People do claim, that it's a remarkable coincidence, that everyone seems to encounter this issue. But co-incidence or not, I can state that several times I've experienced the 'water damage' report with phones that have most definately not been in contact with anything other then maybe a drop or two of rain.

I hope you didn't tell them it was a drop of rain!

bmaxi

The Scientist wrote:

... and my point was, i never got water near the phone.

Oh but you did, and this is where it gets really annoying.

(a) You put it in your pocket.................. Sweat
(b) you held it close to your mouth...............Breath
(c) You answered it in the kitchen of your home.......Condensation
(d) You stood looking out the window at the p*sses of rain

OK the last one's a bit far fetched but you get my drift. (Or maybe it's one the manufacturers just haven't thought of yet.)

Gillo

Dylan_James wrote:

Hey Gillo

Good to see you posting about phones again. I think the last time we had this debate you rightly proved wrong on every point you made.

Funny, I'm pretty sure I didn't prove myself wrong, care to post a link to where I did, not only will I eat humble pie I'll eat humble tart too if I am wrong.

What exactly happened in the end with the issue you had you had with Sigma, Sony Ericsson and Vodafone?

The Scientest wrote:

Apologies for the repeativness... I never have consumer issues so it was a first stop here for me... too lazy to search for old threads.

No need to apologise, my comment was not aimed at you in particular it was a general observation.

The Scientist, while I don't think you are covered by consumer legislation in this case, I do think that you were unfairly treated by Meteor. Why not send a complaint to them not about the phone not workign but about how you were treated in store.

Gillo

Dylan_James wrote:

Hey Gillo

Good to see you posting about phones again. I think the last time we had this debate you rightly proved wrong on every point you made.

Funny, I'm pretty sure I didn't prove myself wrong, care to post a link to where I did, not only will I eat humble pie I'll eat humble tart too if I am wrong.

What exactly happened in the end with the issue you had you had with Sigma, Sony Ericsson and Vodafone?

The Scientest wrote:

Apologies for the repeativness... I never have consumer issues so it was a first stop here for me... too lazy to search for old threads.

No need to apologise, my comment was not aimed at you in particular it was a general observation.

The Scientist, while I don't think you are covered by consumer legislation in this case, I do think that you were unfairly treated by Meteor. Why not send a complaint to them not about the phone not workign but about how you were treated in store. As a part of Eircom I would say that they are been forced to adopt Eircom's customer charter.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Dylan_James

gillo wrote:

Funny, I'm pretty sure I didn't prove myself wrong, care to post a link to where I did, not only will I eat humble pie I'll eat humble tart too if I am wrong.

What exactly happened in the end with the issue you had you had with Sigma, Sony Ericsson and Vodafone?

Hey Gillo

The link to the last thread we had this out on is posted here already.

In the end Gillo I just switched networks.

Opps sorry to all those people working at the Vodafone call centre.

Pythia

Just because a phone has water damage, doesn't mean the water damage is the reason your phone's not working. It just voids the warranty.
So, let's say you have a software problem and they find the circuit board is damaged. Even though the software could be fixed, because of the water damage, the warranty is voided so it won't be fixed.

Dylan_James

Once again Pythia misses the point.

Warranty (as discussed in our last thread) means nothing in a court and does not effect your consumer rights.

Random

Dylan_James wrote:

Once again Pythia misses the point.

Warranty (as discussed in our last thread) means nothing in a court and does not effect your consumer rights.

If you have water in your phone consumer rights do not apply - unless the water was in the phone when you bought it - but prove that!

Dylan_James

ciaranfo wrote:

If you have water in your phone consumer rights do not apply - unless the water was in the phone when you bought it - but prove that!

Why?

Random

Because you've clearly done something to it.

Nody

Dylan_James wrote:

Why?

Because your rights only cover problem with a product that is there at the time you bought it (as in the reason for the problem was in said item when you bought it and not added later by say you dropping it in a full sink of water).

Dylan_James

Lads, already we have had this discussion. Check out the thread posted here previously. There we quote Irish consumer law. Companies may say to you the phone is out of warranty but the fact is this warranty will never affect your consumer rights, which are, if you are not entirely happy with a product, you have to be offered a repair, replacement or refund.

And if you’re still not convinced call the Irish office of Consumer Affairs. There is a phone number on this site:

http://www.odca.ie/

Random

"if you are not entirely happy with a product" - this is very poor paraphrasing.

Dylan_James

Poor paraphrasing or not Ciaran, this is what they will say to you if you ring them.

Random

Dylan_James wrote:

Poor paraphrasing or not Ciaran, this is what they will say to you if you ring them.

Goods (including those bought in a sale) must:

* Fit the description given
* Be of a quality fit for sale
* Be fit for their purpose
* Match any sample show
* Have the full retail price clearly displayed

Dylan_James

ciaranfo wrote:

Goods (including those bought in a sale) must:

* Fit the description given
* Be of a quality fit for sale
* Be fit for their purpose
* Match any sample show
* Have the full retail price clearly displayed

Yes see you have just unproven your own point there Ciaran. In this case the Goods where not of a quality fit for sale or purpose if they become damaged by water condensation, perspiration or "dust" related damage that some members here have complained about that the user can not be held accountable for. Drop your phone in a big puddle and i have no sympathy for you. But you cant be held responsible for a phone that allows moisture in the air or dust to damage it.

Just give them a call tomorrow Ciaran, its a free phone number as far as I know.

Nody

Dylan_James wrote:

Yes see you have just unproven your own point there Ciaran. In this case the Goods where not of a quality fit for sale or purpose if they become damaged by water condensation, perspiration or "dust" related damage that some members here have complained about that the user can not be held accountable for. Drop your phone in a big puddle and i have no sympathy for you. But you cant be held responsible for a phone that allows moisture in the air or dust to damage it.

Just give them a call tomorrow Ciaran, its a free phone number as far as I know.

Once again you're doing your own reading of the law Dylan. There are specific phones made for rougher handling then usual that can handle water and what not. Of course someone can be hold responsible for condensation and dust. Or do you think you can mishandle your items as much as you want and then go to court and get a new one every time (Oh I did not know I could not have it out in the rain talking mr judge and I never read the user manual!)?

And for your reference please read No. 16/1980: SALE OF GOODS AND SUPPLY OF SERVICES ACT, 1980, there is NOTHING in there about 6 year warranty. Also allow me the qoute the law directly (PART II SALE OF GOODS, section 10):

(3) Goods are of merchantable quality if they are as fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought and as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances, and any reference in this Act to unmerchantable goods shall be construed accordingly.

You would never expect to have your TV/computer work in rain, condensation or a dusty envirmoment. Hence they are as durable as it is reasonble to expect. No, electronics are not suitable in wet or dusty enviroments, this is not something exactly new...

Dylan_James

Hey i am bored of this now, check the last thread and give them lads a call tomorrow.

See what they say.

Absolam

Dylan_James wrote:

your consumer rights, which are, if you are not entirely happy with a product, you have to be offered a repair, replacement or refund.

If the product is faulty or not fit for the purpose for which it was sold. The sale of goods act does not indemnify comsumers against unhappiness. In fact; no consumer legislation provides a remedy for unhappiness. Not in any country, as far as I know.

Sam Vimes

Dylan_James wrote:

There we quote Irish consumer law. Companies may say to you the phone is out of warranty but the fact is this warranty will never affect your consumer rights, which are, if you are not entirely happy with a product, you have to be offered a repair, replacement or refund.

[hill billy accent]
ehhhh, mr judge, i bought me a tv and i pushedededed it off of a clif and it broked into a million cajillion pieces. i'm not entirely happy with it and i want me a new one
[/hill billy accent]

the fault was not there when the phone was purchased. when you bought it was of merchantable quality. the fact that you got water in it is not their problem. next time buy one of these.

Dylan_James

Just call them Vimeze, see what they say.

Sam Vimes

Dylan_James wrote:

Just call them Vimeze, see what they say.

i intend to. and if the person on the other end of the phone tells me that i can break something through misuse and then get a new one i'll call that person a liar.

if i can get a free replacement for everything i've bought even after i damaged it, i'm off to cancel my home insurance. sure they have to give me a new house if this one burns down don't they? i won't be entirely happy with it anymore

Random

Hell... try it... do everything in your power to get the phone replaced. If you succeed please let us know what you did. When you fail, leave it alone.

Sam Vimes

right so. i didn't call them but i checked the website. here's some extracts:



You have no grounds for redress if

* You were told about the defect before you bought the item
* You examined the item before you bought it and should have seen the defect
* You bought the item knowing that it wasn’t fit for what you wanted it to do
* You broke or damaged the product
* You made a mistake when buying the item (for example, if you bought an item of clothing thinking it was black when it is actually navy)
* You change your mind

i think numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4 apply to this case

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland

Dylan_James

I was going to leave this but I just couldn't resist


* You were told about the defect before you bought the item

Covered in the last thread, this problem with water damage is covered in the manual, it isnt labeled on the box which is what you buy. Excuse me Vimezy but when was the last time you asked to see a manual for something you bought.

* You examined the item before you bought it and should have seen the defect

Again, how by hold a model of the phone are you supposed to know it will be damaged by water condensation.

* You bought the item knowing that it wasn’t fit for what you wanted it to do

Again covered in the last thread, the term "mobile phone" defines it really. if they cant sell phones that work in a irish climate then thats their problem. not the customer.

* You broke or damaged the product

Again same as above, how are you to know that the normal conditions in ireland could break your phone?

Vimezy, ring them, pretend your in a scenario, say to them your phone had a software problem. When you returned the phone for repair they told you it was water damaged. You said it was in warranty. They said water damage voids the warranty.

When you do ring them man, let us know what they say. Because if you come back here and say something different then i will give them a call, get permission to record them and post it up here. Stop spouting crap and do some research. The whole thing about your house burning down was pathetic.

Gillo

First of all it's highly unlikely that they will give you permission to record them.

Second, you have to remember that you are going to a consumer group looking for advice, it's like going to a trade union looking for advice; they are aware of the law but have a habit of giving their view of the law.

Instead of calliing them again, call a decent solicitor (not a no win no fee smuck) and get their advice give them the full story and see what they say.

I saw it only yesterday a customer brought a phone into me complaining that it would not charge, she get pretty pi$$ed when I showed her where the contacts were all damaged (covered in that green "scum", sorry late one last night brain still hasn't kicked in), despite clearly been able to see what the problem was she still insisted that the phone had never gotten anyway wet.

Some people just don't want to accept that it's their fault (even if it was accidental). It happened me only last week, I missed a train and had to wait a hour for the next, obviously I wasn't inpressed. I had a nice little rant to myself, the guy who stopped me for directions, my daughter messing instead of just getting dressed, someone else in the house turning off the heating and me having to wait to have a shower all combined to make me late and miss the train. Did they f$@k!!! I should have just left the house 5 minutes earlier. What I'm saying is sometimes you have to accept that it's no one else's fault.

(Once again to save any confusion, I'm posting here on my behalf, not on my employers)

Sam Vimes

Dylan_James wrote:

* You were told about the defect before you bought the item

Covered in the last thread, this problem with water damage is covered in the manual, it isnt labeled on the box which is what you buy. Excuse me Vimezy but when was the last time you asked to see a manual for something you bought.

loads of people i know have had their phones water damaged. for you not to know that phones can be water damaged quite easily, you would have to be living on the moon. and if you don't read the manual, its not the shops problem. they provided you with the information. you simply chose not to read it. also, i just looked at a receipt for something i bought in carphone warehouse and it says:

no liability is accepted for:
any defect from fair wear and tear
rain, water or other liquid damage
accidental or willful damage


so if you bought your phone in carphone warehouse, you would have been told in two separate places about this. i can't say for sure about other shops because i don't have their receipts handy but i think its safe to assume they have similar terms and conditions

Dylan_James wrote:

* You examined the item before you bought it and should have seen the defect

Again, how by hold a model of the phone are you supposed to know it will be damaged by water condensation.

because its a piece of electronic equipment which is not water proof. as someone has said on this thread, would you use your tv outside in the rain?

Dylan_James wrote:

* You bought the item knowing that it wasn’t fit for what you wanted it to do

Again covered in the last thread, the term "mobile phone" defines it really. if they cant sell phones that work in a irish climate then thats their problem. not the customer.

emm, no its not. all "mobile phone" means is that its mobile. it doesn't say anything about it being water proof. a "mobile phone" can be moved to the bottom of a river. doesn't mean it'll work there.

they can sell whatever they want. they make it very clear that they will not entertain any water damage related problems in the manual and you have two weeks to decide that you don't accept these terms and return the item.

if you don't think their product will stand up to the use to which you intend to put it, you can choose not to buy it. such is the beauty of capitalism.

Dylan_James wrote:

* You broke or damaged the product

Again same as above, how are you to know that the normal conditions in ireland could break your phone?

in that case, whether you knew it was going to happen or not is beside the point. when i go out this morning, i don't know if someones going to push me over and break the phone in my pocket. the fact that i don't know this does not entitle me to a new one. i would have damaged it. end of discussion.

also, i've never water damaged a phone. i've managed this because i'm extremely careful. i know how easy it is to water damage them. it is quite possible to use a phone in ireland without water damaging it.

Dylan_James wrote:

Vimezy, ring them, pretend your in a scenario, say to them your phone had a software problem. When you returned the phone for repair they told you it was water damaged. You said it was in warranty. They said water damage voids the warranty.

When you do ring them man, let us know what they say. Because if you come back here and say something different then i will give them a call, get permission to record them and post it up here. Stop spouting crap and do some research. The whole thing about your house burning down was pathetic.

yeah i've discussed this with a couple of people and they've all said that those people will tell you whatever you want to hear. what they tell you is pretty much irrelevant if their website says something else.

and what you said they'll tell me "you are entitled to a refund if you're not entirely happy" is obviously not true. why would anyone insure an item against damage if they could smash it to bits and then demand a new one?

go and read the page i linked to above. it spells out your consumer rights.

Cabaal

Dylan_James wrote:

Again covered in the last thread, the term "mobile phone" defines it really. if they cant sell phones that work in a irish climate then thats their problem. not the customer.

Dam it, so thats where I;m going wrong!
My laptop which is a "mobile computer" broke when I got it wet, I guess its not fit for the purpose Its intented for and as such I should be allowed a new one :rolleyes:

After all it should be able to manage Irelands climate

Random

When I filled out my Meteor contract the guy asked about my occupation - I told him I was a scuba diving instructor! I told him the phone was for work!