Most Car Clamping completly illegal

mel123 · 16-01-2007 7:40pm

I am very interested to know if this claim is infact 100% correct. If anyone has any information on this i would love to see it, or point me in the right direction of any websites.
My gripe is with the management companies who are appointing clampers to go into 'private' estates and clamp vehicles - no visitor parking left, no obstruction being caused to other vehicles, no danger posed to anyone/anything, no double yellow lines, not being parked on a path, etc etc - however, once u are not in a designated spot, you are 'illegally' parked.
The clampers are obviously getting a lot of money doing this, so they are out in force. I know numberous estates here in Dublin who have this problem and belive me, i would be quite happy to get as much info on this as I can so i can be sure that i am entitled to park on the side of the street if i want.

maidhc · 16-01-2007 8:46pm

mel123 wrote:

The clampers are obviously getting a lot of money doing this, so they are out in force. I know numberous estates here in Dublin who have this problem and belive me, i would be quite happy to get as much info on this as I can so i can be sure that i am entitled to park on the side of the street if i want.

A management company is just a collective name for all the property owners. And the clampers are there by invitation.

Why not get a meeting of the property owners called. If the majority agree how the clamping should be carried out, then that will be final.

mel123 · 16-01-2007 8:51pm

Good idea, thanks.

Also on this matter, I just have the question, if all this is 100% true, how are these companies allowed to operate in the first instance?? Would there be no laws for setting up this kind of company if they were not operating for the council?

Seth Brundle · 16-01-2007 8:56pm

cpoh1 wrote:

To be honest with you, although mazdafari was more blatent in his attack, anan1 was just as petty, spiteful and malicious in his posts towards the op and deserved a ban too. After all he did ruin a decent thread.

He didn't use the same level of offensive language!

DrChoda wrote:

So, when the OP gets back from their 'week long vaction from boards', I am curious if this applies to all 'privately' run car parks, not affiliated with council?

Its not a boards vacation but merely a a motors vacation.

Now folks - stay on topic

maidhc · 16-01-2007 9:37pm

mel123 wrote:

Good idea, thanks.

Also on this matter, I just have the question, if all this is 100% true, how are these companies allowed to operate in the first instance?? Would there be no laws for setting up this kind of company if they were not operating for the council?

A clamping company isn't like a roving band of warriors. They are invited to clamp cars on private property by the owner of the property. The owner should then put clear signs saying "Unauthorised cars will be clamped" (or whatever is appropriate!). If a person parks, knowing their car to be unauthorised then the cannot really object to getting clamped.

However:

If there is no sign, or
the sign is insufficient, or
the parking rules are unclear, or
the owner puts a note on the windscreen objecting to being clamped,

then the whole thing is (or may be) in dissarray, and the owner of a car may be in a position to sue for damages.

Fey! · 16-01-2007 10:55pm

Does that mean that if I have a notice on display in my car saying "The owner of this car does not consent to it being clamped", then legally the car can't be clamped?

I wonder if it would really work?

On a related note, several years ago in Galway a man was clamped on a city street by the company then doing the clamping for the city corporation. He took them to court and won - he was legally parked and they refused to remove it. He got a VERY genorous payout from them.

A couple of years ago, again in Galway, the clampers (different company this time, but again on contract to the corporation) refused to unclamp a car outside a doctors surgery in order for the owner of the car to rush his child to hospital. The gardai told the clampers to remove it, and they wouldn't. One of the gardai present ended up paying to have the clamp removed. This was the incident with led to the ultimate demise of clamping by Galway Corporation.

Seth Brundle · 16-01-2007 11:01pm

Fey! - I recall hearing that to be the case - if that notice is made visible then the clamper is trespassing or something

Our man in Havana · 16-01-2007 11:24pm

kbannon wrote:

Fey! - I recall hearing that to be the case - if that notice is made visible then the clamper is trespassing or something

Correct.

This has yet to be tested in an irish court though.

Lucifer · 17-01-2007 2:36am

i once got clamped in the apartment complex where i live. was a banger of a car worth about €400 which i was no longer driving as i had bought another car, it was only to do me til i got something decent! i ended up parking it in a visitor spot for a few days til i could bring it to my parents house. ended up being clamped for being there too long even though there was no parking time limits displayed on signs. i tried to contact the management company to argue this and by the time i could get them on the phone the clamping bill was about 300! (was €85 per day and the management company was closed for a few days). i wasnt paying to have the clamp removed as i didnt really want the car end its value was about what i would have to pay. i contacted the management company 3/4 times to see what they would say and each time i was told they would get back to me. i got sick of it so just ignored it then. went on for about 2 months until i eventually owed them 4-5k! the management company called me and asked me if they removed the clamp free of charge would i move the car so i agreed!

Not saying this would always work but i think that time they realised that the space was move valueable than the money they were never going to get out of me!

Our man in Havana · 17-01-2007 2:41am

I wonder if the clamping company in the OPs case would take a similar attitude. I doubt it somehow.

mel123 · 17-01-2007 1:29pm

maidhc wrote:

A clamping company isn't like a roving band of warriors. They are invited to clamp cars on private property by the owner of the property. The owner should then put clear signs saying "Unauthorised cars will be clamped" (or whatever is appropriate!). If a person parks, knowing their car to be unauthorised then the cannot really object to getting clamped.

QUOTE]

But they have been invited by the management company to do this, not by me who owns my property, or anyone else who owns their property??

maidhc · 17-01-2007 5:15pm

mel123 wrote:

But they have been invited by the management company to do this, not by me who owns my property, or anyone else who owns their property??

You and the other property owners ARE the management company. It may be the management agents whom the management co. has retained to keep the communal areas in order are hiring the clampers. This would not be surprising, as most management agents are cowboys and probably have deals on the side with the clamping/security companies. Just get the other property owners to make it clear that clamping is only permitted in extreme circumstances/never and that should be it.

The issue of the note on the windscreen has never been tested, and may not work in an Irish court, but it would have a good chance of succeeding I reckon!

Gary ITR · 17-01-2007 6:06pm

Well I just got clamped twice in two days in Dublin City Centre:mad:

Victor · 17-01-2007 8:02pm

maidhc wrote:

Apart from parking in a disabled space, there is nothing immoral about parking illegally!

Fire brigade access? Fire Escape? Ambulance bay? Goods delivery? Dangerous parking? Defrauding of parking fees?

Parking "illegally" in a university carpark is not illegal, immoral, or anything else.

Does the university have the right to make bye-laws? And breaching those bye-laws might be an offence?

Fey! wrote:

A couple of years ago, again in Galway, the clampers (different company this time, but again on contract to the corporation) refused to unclamp a car outside a doctors surgery in order for the owner of the car to rush his child to hospital. The gardai told the clampers to remove it, and they wouldn't. One of the gardai present ended up paying to have the clamp removed. This was the incident with led to the ultimate demise of clamping by Galway Corporation.

If you need to rush a child to hospital, call an ambulance or hell, put them in hte back of a garda car.

zt-OctaviaN · 17-01-2007 10:25pm

err what?

"its a private car-park open to the public and therefore isnt covered by any traffic laws and they cant legally touch your property- They can keep it detained sure,maybe do you for trespassing but not clamp it"

Thats bizarre: ok.....
1) Its a private car-park open to the public ??????????? (hmmm Private but Public) go on....
2) They can keep it detained sure (what the car?? thought they cant touch it? then how detain it?)
3) Maybe do you for trespassing but not clamp it ????????
Do you for tresspassing what on a private carpark OPEN TO THE PUBLIC??

Thanks for the Clamp removal though!

Victor · 17-01-2007 11:04pm

zt-OctaviaN wrote:

1) Its a private car-park open to the public ??????????? (hmmm Private but Public) go on....

The land may be private, but the public or a portion thereof, may have access to it, e.g. a supermarket carpark.

zt-OctaviaN wrote:

2) They can keep it detained sure (what the car?? thought they cant touch it? then how detain it?)

They could lock the gate.

zt-OctaviaN wrote:

3) Maybe do you for trespassing but not clamp it ????????

They could sue for trespass or seek a prosecution for trespass.

zt-OctaviaN wrote:

Do you for tresspassing what on a private carpark OPEN TO THE PUBLIC??

"Public" can exclude certain people, e.g. a college could state that a car park is for staff and students only, anyone else would be trespassing. Likewise a public house, nominally open to all, can bar certain individuals for unacceptable behavior.

Our man in Havana · 17-01-2007 11:08pm

Victor wrote:

The land may be private, but the public or a portion thereof, may have access to it, e.g. a supermarket carpark.

Does the provisions of the Road Traffic Act apply to private places that the public have access to such as your example a supermarket carpark?

Victor · 17-01-2007 11:27pm

Bond-007 wrote:

Does the provisions of the Road Traffic Act apply to private places that the public have access to such as your example a supermarket carpark?

Road Traffic Acts, generally yes. The Roads Act and Road Transport Act, generally no. In other words if you are driving dangerously in a supermarket car park, the garda can prosecute you.

maidhc · 18-01-2007 12:03am

Victor wrote:

Fire brigade access? Fire Escape? Ambulance bay? Goods delivery? Dangerous parking? Defrauding of parking fees?

Breaking a law is not by itself immoral. Blocking a goods delivery truck certainly isn't! Similarly upholding the law is not necessarily moral, if the law is not of a moral quality to begin with... e.g. the law of the Third Reich.

Victor wrote:

If you need to rush a child to hospital, call an ambulance or hell, put them in hte back of a garda car.

Clamping a car in the situation referred to IS immoral (IMO... morality is subjective!) Are you honestly saying enforcement of a parking law (or any law tbh) is worth the slightest risk to the health or wellbeing of a child?

My goodness, I feel very profound.

Victor · 18-01-2007 12:22am

maidhc wrote:

Breaking a law is not by itself immoral. Blocking a goods delivery truck certainly isn't! Similarly upholding the law is not necessarily moral, if the law is not of a moral quality to begin with... e.g. the law of the Third Reich.

This is parking enforcement, not the Holocaust.

Clamping a car in the situation referred to IS immoral (IMO... morality is subjective!)

Actually, the OP doesn't go intot he details of his parking other than it was clamped in WIT.

Are you honestly saying enforcement of a parking law (or any law tbh) is worth the slightest risk to the health or wellbeing of a child?

Yes. Otherwise we have chaos. Look at parking in Dublin City Centre before and after clamping was introduced.

My goodness, I feel very profound.

Its OK, its misplaced. Perfectly normal.

frankdrebin · 18-01-2007 12:27am

Everyone knows that the management companies are owned by the owners AFTER it has been handed over by the developers. Prior to this, the management company, without the consent of the owners and under the direction of the developers, can "invite" the clampers in.

maidhc · 18-01-2007 12:30am

Victor wrote:

This is parking enforcement, not the Holocaust.

Most people can draw parallels between the Gestapo and the Clampers!

Victor wrote:

Yes. Otherwise we have chaos. Look at parking in Dublin City Centre before and after clamping was introduced.

I don't mean the fear of poor johnny getting wet and catching a cold, but something more serious, as Fey refers to.

I think though (by and large) local authorities are reasonably moderate in how they clamp cars, and for the most part it is justified. They seem to respond to public criticism, albeit slowly. However private lads are operating in a regulatory vacuum, and as such are a law unto themselves, that is an issue.

Del2005 · 18-01-2007 7:09am

AFAIK the law with private clampers is that it is illegal for them to remove the use of your vehicle by clamping, even if you are parked illegally, as we have a constitutional right to our properity. But it is also illegal for you to remove their properity or damage it. So if you can get the clamp off without damaging it they can't touch you.

There was a thread here a long time ago, did a quick search but couldn't find it, about a person who was clamped in work and got their car out using a similar method to the OP. They where told they couldn't part in the car part again and that was it.

aisling.laura · 11-12-2009 4:40am

as far as i know if you don.t damage it - which is hard to cut anyway, you can't get in too ouch trouble. If you can get enough slack on the chain, take the wheel off. That gets enough room. Then just unscrew a few things- wishbone mayb? And the chain slips off. Then all you do is get a clamp yourself and put it on your wheel so the clampers figure its done already. Can't remember what movie thats in

Mellor · 11-12-2009 5:26am

aisling.laura wrote: »

as far as i know if you don.t damage it - which is hard to cut anyway, you can't get in too ouch trouble. If you can get enough slack on the chain, take the wheel off. That gets enough room. Then just unscrew a few things- wishbone mayb? And the chain slips off. Then all you do is get a clamp yourself and put it on your wheel so the clampers figure its done already. Can't remember what movie thats in

You relise that this thread is almost 3 years old?