No Mods looking after the Darts Forum

Kingp35

Recently there has been quite a few posts by people in threads in the Darts forum slagging the sport off. If this happened in any other forum that poster would be banned for at least a weekf from the forum in question. Sadly the Darts forum only has one mod, Amz, who I dont think has ever even looked in the darts forum.

The forum needs a mod who is a regulr poster in Darts so they can keep an eye out on whats going on. Also there needs to be a sticky at the top that has links to various Darts sites so peole can access them.

It would be great if this would be sorted ASAP because its becoming a problem at this stage.

Thanks

Ruu_Old

Well no one has reported any posts regarding the Darts forum,(from what I can see, perhaps there were earlier) that they deem a problem so it is hard for Amz being the C-mod of sports to tell whether there is an issue or not. No harm to get another person in who views the forum regularly to help I suppose.
If you, or someone you reckon would be good then throw their name forward.

fade2black

At the same time Kingp it doesn't need a mod to come in and rule with an iron fist. A game like darts is not going to run and cry to its mammy for being slagged off and the only job I can see a mod doing is preventing people slagging each other off, or maybe some obvious slander against certain players.

In saying that, you're the most frequent poster that I ever see on the forum and would be the obvious choice for mod. Whether you would make a good one only time would tell.

Silverfish

There does seem to be some trolling and name calling going on, it may not need a mod to rule with an iron fist but I'd say it certainly needs looking at.

Kingp35

Well I dont want someone to come alog and rule with an Iron Fist, thats not what I meant. But there has been some trolling etc lately thats taken away from the forum and if a mod was to issue a warning or something to these people then I dont think they will do it again.

I dont know how to put your name forward as a mod but I suppose I would give it a go if I was given the opportunity. Rooster could be a candidate too.

I just think i would be better for the forum to have one regular poster as a mod.

oscarBravo

For now, report any posts you think are problematic. Amz as cat-mod for Sports will receive the reports and act as she deems appropriate.

DeVore

I'll go through a mod-selection process for the forum shortly.

DeV.

Asok

Isnt that when you put a picture of every contender on the bottom of a shot glass and the one that makes you pass out wins?

Kingp35

DeVore wrote:

I'll go through a mod-selection process for the forum shortly.

DeV.

Thanks DeV

DeVore

Asok wrote:

Isnt that when you put a picture of every contender on the bottom of a shot glass and the one that makes you pass out wins?

...and your point is? Ó.o


DeV.

Talliesin

Kingp35 wrote:

I dont know how to put your name forward as a mod but I suppose I would give it a go if I was given the opportunity.

How could a user who thinks posts are problematic but who doesn't bother to report them possibly moderate it well?

You still haven't reported any posts there.

Ronan|Raven

So reporting a post to you shower is the gauge of things? Report a post to a cmod who to my knowledge has SFA to do with darts? Rugger maybe.

smashey

Ronan|Raven wrote:

So reporting a post to you shower is the gauge of things? Report a post to a cmod who to my knowledge has SFA to do with darts? Rugger maybe.

Amz is the cmod of sports. This includes darts.

Talliesin

Ronan|Raven wrote:

So reporting a post to you shower is the gauge of things?

When someone complains that moderators aren't acting, and moderators have been given no reasons for acting, yes.

The only conclusions I can come to our the following:

1. There were no problems. Kingp35 made and error of judgement about what's a disagreement and what needs dealt with by a moderator action. Kingp35 shouldn't be a mod.
2. There was a problem. Kingp35 didn't bother to report it. Kingp35 shouldn't be a mod.
3. Kingp35 believes in the "clique" theory and wants to be part of said clique. Kingp35 shouldn't be a mod.

Please demonstrate otherwise.

The C-Mod doesn't need to have anything to do with darts to moderate a forum. They would to make a good Darts forum poster, but that's far from being the same thing.

cast_iron

Perhaps Kingp35 should have reported the posts. He chose to take it to Feedback instead - his way of reporting the posts. I don't see how reporting posts via feedback instead of the "report post" button means one isn't competent enough to be a Mod.

Can we take it you have no problem with any of the posts in question (assuming you've read the thread)?

Talliesin

cast_iron wrote:

Perhaps Kingp35 should have reported the posts. He chose to take it to Feedback instead - his way of reporting the posts.

That's like going to the police complaints commission to report that the police didn't investigate a burglary that you never reported.

There's nothing to say that the Sports cat-mod has even seen this thread.

cast_iron wrote:

Can we take it you have no problem with any of the posts in question (assuming you've read the thread)?

Beats me. I haven't seen any reported posts to look at :rolleyes:

Boston

You've twisted my Arm, I'll mod it... Now which forum is darts again?

Hobbes

eve forum has no mods either but everyone is pretty much well behaved.

Talliesin

I've withdrawn all of my stated concerns about Kingp35 being a mod in the thread on this in the Darts forum itself. I hope to see him in the Moderators forum soon.

In the meantime. Can people please report posts you think need a moderator's eye. As well as letting the threads get dealt with, it's highly likely that there would have been a thread started in the moderators forum by Amz saying "Need a mod in the darts forum, Kingp35 seems a good choice based on what threads he chose to report and what he stated where is issues with them".

Amz

Kingp35 wrote:

Well I dont want someone to come alog and rule with an Iron Fist, thats not what I meant. But there has been some trolling etc lately thats taken away from the forum and if a mod was to issue a warning or something to these people then I dont think they will do it again.

I dont know how to put your name forward as a mod but I suppose I would give it a go if I was given the opportunity. Rooster could be a candidate too.

I just think i would be better for the forum to have one regular poster as a mod.

As you have failed to report any of these problematic posts I cannot be expected to know that there is an issue on the forum. I mod several forums, I also have a life. If you have a problem report the post and/or PM me.

As you do not appear to understand the process of reporting posts I'll have to see who in the Darts forum might make a suitable mod. I wouldn't like to think you'd be a mod of a forum when you don't seem to know how it works.

Thanks for the heads up though.

[edit]
Just to add, I put a charter in the Darts forum and asked that people report problem posts, it would appear that King35 and those who have a problem with the forum didn't read the charter if they failed to see that request.

Talliesin

Amz wrote:

Just to add, I put a charter in the Darts forum and asked that people report problem posts, it would appear that King35 and those who have a problem with the forum didn't read the charter if they failed to see that request.

Oh FFS!

Kingp35 are you just taking the ****ing piss or something?

Beruthiel

Amz wrote:

Just to add, I put a charter in the Darts forum and asked that people report problem posts, it would appear that King35 and those who have a problem with the forum didn't read the charter if they failed to see that request.

LOL
King35 = Excellent Mod Material

Sarky

Asok wrote:

Isnt that when you put a picture of every contender on the bottom of a shot glass and the one that makes you pass out wins?

From now on I am making ALL major decisions like this.

monkeyfudge

Sheesh... all this fuss over a forum dedicated to big green electric trains....

Gordon

They're poisoned darts right? Spy type forum?

6th

Make this man the Mod!

Kingp35

Im starting to get pretty annoyed with this whole thing. I put my name forword because others suggested that I do. Whats this rubbish about a Boards clique? I certainly dont want to be a part of it.

As for reporting posts, come on now its damn obvious that some posts should be reported, and I expect that to be in the charter, otherwise, its a pretty poor charter now isnt it. If you lot bothered to do a bit of reading you would see that the probem was dealt with by me and others when it occured the first time by talking to said people rationally with an explanation to how its not only fat people etc that play darts. Problem solved, no need to report any posts. Sadly a few days later the same people came back again and said the same thing. This just brought to a head the problem that there is no ACTIVE mod on the darts forum. I came to feedback and raised my concerns (outlined below). When I went back to the darts forum about 20 mins later (I was in work and had some work to do), the thread in question had been locked, therefore no need to report any posts.

If you read my first post on this thread you will see that I wasnt only raising concerns about bad posts not being dealt with. I would like an ACTIVE mod on the darts forum, someone with knowledge of the sport, someone who will contribute to the forum, someone who will view the forum, someone who will be helpfull to other darts fans, someone who will be able to find out helpfull darts sites and put them as a sticky, someone who will be able to organise some darts tournaments for boards users and many other things that only a mod interested in the sport of darts can do. I never put my name forward until others suggested I do and Talliesins comments about me possibly wanting to be part of some boards clique has really annoyed me.

Amz

Hopefully we'll have an active mod on the forum soon. I do have a life and have exams at the moment so unfortunately I don't have the time to check the forum daily (as I had been doing).

You didn't report problem posts, you claim you dealt with the problem poster by talking to them, if that was the case why did they return? Clearly you should have reported the posts and I would have dealt with them.

As I said, I do have a life and had the issues been raised with me I could have taken some of the brief time I have on the site at the moment to deal with them.

You could easily have PMed me to raise your concerns and allowed me to address them. You chose not to.

Boston

Your post makes little to no sense. The posts either did or didn't need to be moderated. If they did in your opinion, regardless of who moded the forum, they should have been reported, as per the charter, which you should have read. I think you created this problem just so you could join the boards clique. That's not right.

oscarBravo

Kingp35 wrote:

Whats this rubbish about a Boards clique? I certainly dont want to be a part of it.

:eek: Why ever not?

Talliesin

Kingp35 wrote:

As for reporting posts, come on now its damn obvious that some posts should be reported

With you so far.

Kingp35 wrote:

and I expect that to be in the charter, otherwise, its a pretty poor charter now isnt it.

Actually, there's no harm putting that in the charter, but it's pretty superfluous. The charter doesn't have to tell you to report posts, not Spam or to wash your hands after going to the toilet. You still managed to not do so anyway.

Kingp35 wrote:

If you lot bothered to do a bit of reading you would see that the probem was dealt with by me and others when it occured the first time by talking to said people rationally with an explanation to how its not only fat people etc that play darts. Problem solved, no need to report any posts.

And hence no need for moderator action. A good mod seeing that thread at that point would have left it.

Kingp35 wrote:

Sadly a few days later the same people came back again and said the same thing. This just brought to a head the problem that there is no ACTIVE mod on the darts forum.

There is a very ACTIVE mod in all the Sports forums.

Kingp35 wrote:

someone who will contribute to the forum, someone who will view the forum, someone who will be helpfull to other darts fans, someone who will be able to find out helpfull darts sites and put them as a sticky, someone who will be able to organise some darts tournaments for boards users and many other things that only a mod interested in the sport of darts can do.

The only thing in that list you need to be a mod to do is to sticky things.

Kingp35 wrote:

I never put my name forward until others suggested I do and Talliesins comments about me possibly wanting to be part of some boards clique has really annoyed me.

You're comments about one of the hardest working moderators on this forum irritated the hell out of me, tbh. That isn't very important though. The idea of someone who has such a lack of a clue about moderation being a moderator does.

I suggest you organise a darts tournament. It sounds like you might be good at that.

Dub13

smashey wrote:

Amz is the cmod of sports. This includes darts.

Another question,is Darts a Sport...?

oleras

Dub13 wrote:

Another question,is Darts a Sport...?

Might be in the olympics in 2012 afaik !! :cool:

cast_iron

Dub13 wrote:

Another question,is Darts a Sport...?

Yes, it is a recognised sport.

Some interesting points and, in fairness to Talliesin, some valid ones. If Kingp35 thought the post warranted reporting, feedback and complaining about the lack of modding probably wasn't the right way to go about things when all is said and done.

cast_iron wrote:

Perhaps Kingp35 should have reported the posts. He chose to take it to Feedback instead - his way of reporting the posts.

Talliesin wrote:

That's like going to the police complaints commission to report that the police didn't investigate a burglary that you never reported.

Almost, but not quite. The police complaints comission won't then investigate the burglary itself. Nor will they ensure more patrols are done in the area to prevent such happening again. Kingp35 got both these results, which, in fairness to him, was his ultimate aim.

Kingp35

Boston wrote:

I think you created this problem just so you could join the boards clique. That's not right.

Stop fishing because im not biting.

Talliesin wrote:

You're comments about one of the hardest working moderators on this forum irritated the hell out of me, tbh.

Now it all becomes clear. You accepted earlier today that I meant no ill harm towards Amz and that you misunderstood me, now we have this. Seems as if there quite clearly is a Boards clique. As I already said, I want nothing to do with it, especially if this is how you act.

I dont want to be a mod on a Message Board when you have rubbish such as this.

Dev, my original points still stand. The Darts forum needs an active mod. Amz is not an active mod so someone else who posts on darts shoud be given a chance. Let Amz choose the person she would like to work with, that is the best solution. As I said, im no longer a candidate.

I have appologised to Amz for anything I may have said directly or indirectly about her abilties as a moderator, even if they were misunderstood.

Boston

You haven't convinced anyone that a mod is needed. What you need is a few trolls. I recommend posting lots of links to the forum on after hours. You'll get Five mods and all the S-mods will regularly read the forum.

The Rooster

Boston wrote:

You haven't convinced anyone that a mod is needed.

All the regular posters on the darts forum are convinced, whatever thats worth. And Kingp35, being the most helpful poster on the forum, is the almost unanimous of those posters to be the active mod to assist amz as Cmod - and not one regular objected to Kingp35's nomination.

6th

So he's the popular choice? Popularity isnt the deciding factor in choosing a mod.

Maybe he would be great for it but this thread hasnt shown that.

If he put his hand up and said 'Yep, I was wrong I should have reported the posts properly' then people would see that he's capable of admitting his mistakes.

Firewalkwithme

6th wrote:

If he put his hand up and said 'Yep, I was wrong I should have reported the posts properly' then people would see that he's capable of admitting his mistakes.

Judging by the many threads in this forum complaining about moderators, not being able to admit to their mistakes seems to be a pre-requisite for the job.

Choosing a moderator for the Darts forum really should have been a very simple process and it would have been had certain people kept their noses out. Now it's just turned into a farce and I would say it's very likely that if Kingp35 doesn't end up being made moderator (which he probably won't now he has withdrawn) then whoever is chosen is likely to be seen as an outsider to the regular posters on the forum as their appointment is likely to be resented.

For those who have had no interest in darts until this issue arose and decided to get involved, consider this. Darts by and large is played by a small and tightly knit community. There is a sense of community among those who play darts (go to any tournament to see this for yourself) largely because of the complete lack of knowledge most people have about the sport. That is why, in my opinion, the only suitable moderator for the Darts forum would be someone from the existing group of regular posters.

6th

I'd agree with you to a point. I used to play quite a bit and for the most of it people not involved dont understand but I dont think that to be a good mod you have to be an expert on the subject.

The OP showed that he hasnt followed proceder on the forum so does his knowledge of the subject outweight his ability to mod?

Talliesin

cast_iron wrote:

Almost, but not quite. The police complaints comission won't then investigate the burglary itself. Nor will they ensure more patrols are done in the area to prevent such happening again. Kingp35 got both these results, which, in fairness to him, was his ultimate aim.

Sorry. We sorted out his problem for him despite his lack of co-operation in seeing such problems sorted, so he did well?

Kingp35 wrote:

You accepted earlier today that I meant no ill harm towards Amz and that you misunderstood me, now we have this.

That was before I re-read the Charter

Kingp35 wrote:

Seems as if there quite clearly is a Boards clique.

There's lots of cliques. Amz isn't really in any clique I'm in though, I barely know her at all.

I think the clique that's built up around the Darts seems to be a lovely little circle, tight-knit but not unfriendly to new-comers, my sincere congratulations to all the regular posters there.

Kingp35 wrote:

The Darts forum needs an active mod. Amz is not an active mod so someone else who posts on darts shoud be given a chance.

See, you say a second ago you've got no problem with Amz. And then you say she's lying when she said above that she is actively moderating it, albeit depending more heavily upon reports for a couple of weeks.

The Rooster wrote:

All the regular posters on the darts forum are convinced, whatever thats worth.

Now this is the important part in my opinion.

All of the reasons I've seen given for the need of a moderator have nothing to do with what a moderator does.

We're the janitors. We clean and tidy. That's it.

Your janitorial needs seem to be adequately fulfilled.

Seriously, that's all that moderators do.

We do get some tools that could let us do very bad things, but janitors aren't normally considered glamourous just because they could open lockers without permission or blow up a building's central heating system.

The reasons I've seen given for the need for a moderator have referred to stuff that isn't janitorial.

Let's take the idea of organising a tournament.

Firstly, this sounds like a very good idea. The attraction to the forum's regulars is obvious, and it could be popular beyond that group (personally, I'd briefly consider it, and then remember that I consider it an achievement if I even get the dart to hit the board, and conclude that it probably wasn't for me unless it was quite clearly labelled as "having a laugh with some darts and some pints" [another possibly good event] rather than a "tournament").

So, how do you go about this.

First you decide if there are any costs. If there are you decide whether it's going to come out of your own pocket, going to be split between a few people who think it's a good idea, or going to be ticketed. You might also decide to make it ticketed with the proceeds going to something else (whether a charity or another idea you have for the forum's members - but be clear about what was raised, if you made lots let people know, if you made a loss there's no shame in admitting that either).

Start a thread in Darts. Get feedback on the idea and a rough idea of numbers (or learn that nobody seems very interested, or a lot of people have exams coming up, or some other reason why you might have to shelve the idea - you can't be successful every time you try to do something). Once you've got enough of a response to indicate its worth going ahead ask a mod to sticky it until the event is going, so it doesn't fall below the fold while plans are afoot.

Then you book a venue - most likely a pub with a dart board.

Since it's a boards event (being based wholly or partly around one of the forums here) you can start a thread in the Events forum as well as the Darts forum. This will get people who would be interested in darts more aware of both the event and the Darts forum.

Then you do a bit of meeting and greeting at the event to try to ensure that anyone new to the group doesn't feel too left out.

Then you play darts.

Not a single piece of this involves moderating. The only thing modding would help with is you wouldn't have to ask for the thread to be stickied - and that's not entirely necessary either, just a convenience.

What's more, this is the reality of how these things happen. Sure, the people doing them are often mods, but they often aren't. The majority of events for boards as a whole have been put together by people with normal user status in boards as a whole, and some that aren't moderators anywhere.

You do require a bit of a leadership thing going on, a complete newbie to the group would have difficulty getting people to follow their lead on the plan. A moderator may or may not be able to get people to follow their lead in this way because moderation is orthogonal to leadership. There's actually a great advantage to the moderator not being the more natural "leaders" in the group as leaders can lose the run of themselves a bit sometimes (if they've just slogged to put together an event that lots of people enjoyed and someone starts calling them a moron because they didn't like the fact that the venue was 5 minutes further from their home than another one that they didn't even bother to suggest when possible venues were being discussed it's quite understandable that they might respond in a fashion that would lead the moderator to warn them about [though they should of course also warn or possibly ban the person who called them a moron]).

These things help a forum in a more obvious way than moderating. Moderating is just making sure things don't go to complete crap (as I said, it's janitorial), but things like this give real and obvious value to a forum's members. They, quite rightly, also bring a lot more kudos than moderating (the vast majority of moderating is quite invisible in busy forums and not actually doing much in quiet ones).

I've done both for forums here and I have to say that being a moderator is very, very little help in organising events. Being a regular poster with a reasonably good reputation in some forums (I suspect the AH regulars just think I'm weird or something, so I'd probably have very little success there ) is the requirement.

It's way cooler, both for the person doing the organising and the other people that benefit, to do this sort of thing than to delete a couple of posts because someone hit the "Submit Reply" button three times and there were a few duplicates. I'm a lot happier about the last event I organised, even though it made a loss that left me very slightly out of pocket (no more so than a night out would have anyway, mind) than I am about any moderating I've done.

So. There's your framework for how to get something like that going. Any details that are domain-specific (i.e. you need to know about Darts to do well) you've already got the skills to deal with.

Kingp35. It seems to me that you have the interest, passion, knowledge of the game and leadership within the group to go ahead and do this. You've indicated you would like it done. Not being a moderator is not stopping you in the slightest. So why not go ahead an do it?

PM me if you can think of any way in which I can help. I doubt it, but as an S-mod I can do anything a moderator can do in any forum, and if you find a way in which moderation abilities genuinely would help your cause I promise to help in any way I can. I'm a harsh bastard and all that but I like seeing this site deliver to its users and am always happy to help anyone trying to do that.

Kingp35

Talliesin wrote:

See, you say a second ago you've got no problem with Amz. And then you say she's lying when she said above that she is actively moderating it, albeit depending more heavily upon reports for a couple of weeks.

Again you misunderstand what im saying. I meant active as in someone who contributes and posts on the darts forum. Stop trying to make it out that I have a problem with Amz when I clearly dont.

Also some good points raised above by you, ill certainly take them into consideration.

6th

A mod doesnt have to post or contribute to the forum they mod, they just have to do what they can to make sure it runs smoothly for those who do use it.

Gary ITR

6th wrote:

A mod doesnt have to post or contribute to the forum they mod, they just have to do what they can to make sure it runs smoothly for those who do use it.

Would be better if they did though as that way they would have earned the respect of the regular posters. Surely a mod that has the respect of the regular posters would be a better mod

6th

IT would be good but I dont think it makes a bettter mod. Like Tallisen said, a mod is a janitor.

Talliesin

Nope. The only way in which being an active poster affects your ability to moderate (clean up stuff) is that a lot of people are only inclined to do so if its a forum they enjoy.

Some communities have their own etiquette, and that sometimes translates into what happens online and sometimes doesn't (a lot of sport etiquette only applies to what happens during the game and doesn't translate, a lot of religious etiquette is around what one says and does translate) but even this is easily learnt by anyone.

It takes zero knowledge of a topic to delete a duplicate post or tell someone to stop calling another user an asshole.

I'm increasingly thinking that Kingp35 is a. asking for someone to do what he's already doing well - since he's already doing it well we don't need anyone doing that and b. thought being a moderator would help him do some things he'd like to see done - it won't.

Moderators are janitors.

The Rooster

6th wrote:

I'd agree with you to a point. I used to play quite a bit and for the most of it people not involved dont understand but I dont think that to be a good mod you have to be an expert on the subject.

The OP showed that he hasnt followed proceder on the forum so does his knowledge of the subject outweight his ability to mod?

Hasnt followed procedure in that he went straight to feedback to ask for an active darts mod rather than immediately reporting the post? Within 20 minutes or so the offending thread was locked, so obviously pointless to report the thread then. The job got done. No need to make a mountain out of it.

Regardless of anything else, having a darts fan as a mod would definitely improve the board. Its far easier to deal with someone who has a love of the subject and who will be a very regular contrbutor and visitor. Nothing bad can happen by giving him the chance to be mod of the darts board, and every regular will be happy with the decision...

6th

Ok so should people follow his example and instead of reporting posts they should start a feedback thread?

By all means start a thread to see about getting a mod but not at the cost of ignoring the report post function.

Talliesin

The Rooster wrote:

Hasnt followed procedure in that he went straight to feedback to ask for an active darts mod rather than immediately reporting the post? Within 20 minutes or so the offending thread was locked, so obviously pointless to report the thread then. The job got done. No need to make a mountain out of it.

S-mods shouldn't have to waste their time dealing with minor issues in actively moderated forums like Darts though.

If a moderator should be made aware of something then make them aware of it. There is no reason why a moderator should look at the Feedback forum.

The Rooster wrote:

Regardless of anything else, having a darts fan as a mod would definitely improve the board.

How?

The Rooster wrote:

Its far easier to deal with someone who has a love of the subject and who will be a very regular contrbutor and visitor.

The "Report Post" feature is pretty impersonal. You don't even know who is going to deal with it. Generally, you report it and it will be dealt with by the forum mod, if there is one, or the cat mod, if there isn't. If they're on holidays then other people with the ability to react (cat mods if its a local moderator that is on holidays, s-mods in all cases) will deal with it without you having to know they are on holidays.

"Report Posts" puts a call over the intercom saying "Clean up on aisle 6". Who deals with it is a matter for another layer of the system to deal with.

This means that moderators don't come back from holidays to a pile of increasingly irate PMs and a mess of a forum.

The very few cases where you need something more general done can be handled by PMing the moderator directly. It's perfectly acceptable to PM all moderators of a forum if you say you've done so in the PM and again this lets who-does-what get handled nicely. PMing someone to say "I want to announce this, but it might look a bit Spammy. Would it be okay?" is pretty impersonal also.

What is it you think moderators do?

Talliesin

6th wrote:

Ok so should people follow his example and instead of reporting posts they should start a feedback thread?

Anyone who thinks it will be funny to respond to 6ths suggestion as if it wasn't rhetorical and start using Feedback as a place to report posts will find themselves unable to post in Feedback.

6th, don't say things like that, it encourages the more muppetry-inclined posters to try to be funny!

6th

Christ it was rhetorical, I actually forgot for a second that people can be that stupid!