Terrapin (YBS) not eating

inode

i have two terrapins, 1 eats like a fat F**K. the other doesnt ever touch food. i got them over two months ago. i just compared them beside each other earlier and noticed how skinny the other one is.

i have aquarium plants in the tank that seem to be eaten a good bit, and i bet i know which one eats it lol,

do terrapins semi hibernate and not eat? cause i think i should be worried.

nando

Yeah I think you should be getting worried around now, although terrapins can go for a while without eating. Go to the vet for a check-up - anorexia can be a sign of lots of diseases.

What is your setup like? What are you feeding them - they can be very picky eaters?

Also are you sure the temperature is alright? Terrapins don't need to hibernate and shouldn't really be encouraged to, although they will if the conditions require them to. One dangerous thing that can happen is if they are kept at a temperature too low for feeding and digestion to happen properly, but too high for hibernation they can slowly starve.

inode

the setup is decent, the water temp is 25 degrees, got a good filter, uvb light etc.

i feed them fish r fun turtle and small retile food. the other one loves it. but the anorexic one hasnt bothered to even look at the food since day one or another brand ive thrown at him. he has nibbled on aquarium plants though.

he just lazes around on the rocks all day or under water.

spyder238

I too have 2 terrapins and like you one of them eats like mad and the other seems to shy away from food, are you feeding them inside the tank or outside and maybe give them space cause i know my shy one doesnt like being watched while she eats i usually leave her alone and she devours all the food, maybe try feeding them seperately too

nando

Well I definitely think you should go to a vet to get him checked out because he could be quite dehydrated by now and anorexia is caused by lots of diseases including Metabolic Bone Disease (due to lack of calcium), which is quite common. If you're sure the temperature and setup is ok then you might want to try some variety in the diet and offer it some more raw meat. This is some advice from http://www.v-e-t-s.co.uk/turtles_and_terrapins.htm about feeding terrapins.

Most terrapins and turtles are actually omnivorous rather than exclusively carnivorous, consuming both animal prey and plant material in the wild. This pattern should be encouraged in captivity. Some are definitely more carnivorous than others. In all cases, however, it is certainly not adequate to feed only on commercial 'turtle-flakes’, which are often of very poor nutritional value and severely lacking in dietary fibre, vitamins and minerals. Nor should whitebait or similar fish form the staple diet, as these are excessively rich in oil and can result in steatitis or fatty infiltration of the liver. Diets containing excessive quantities of fish can also result in induced vitamin-B deficiencies due to the presence in fish of an enzyme called thiaminase, which interferes with the take up of B-group vitamins. The main thing to avoid with diets for any captive turtle is over-reliance upon one single item; this is a very easy mistake to make, but a balanced and varied diet is infinitely superior. Provide as wide a range of the following food items as you possibly can

Suggested terrapin/turtle diet
Plant leaf material
Fruit
Canned dog food (low lat varieties preferred)
Raw (whole) fish
Rehydrated dried cat, dog or trout pellets
Fresh meat
Earthworms
Snails and molluscs
Small dead rodents such as mice

Also note that it is best to avoid feeding chicken or pork due to salmonella risks.

FranknFurter

Firstly, a vet visit is important at this point.
You could try him with some live food. Buy 2 guppies (no other fish!) from any pet store (you will know them, they are about 1" long and have very colourful tails) and put them in the water.
If you can, while they are in, put the other terrapin in another tank so he dosent wolf em down!

B

(The idea being there is not much nutrition in them BUT they might kick-start his appetite. The urge to kill prey can be powerful).

nando

Why do you say only guppies FF?

inode

i seem guppies 2 buy in the pet shop today, they said i should bring it to the vet too. im goin to try and feed it on its own now. also how mmuch does a vet visit average on these days?

bounty_hunter

It depends who you go to inode. Any kind of treatment for an exotic costs A LOT more than for just your average household animal, as they require a specialist vet. Some will charge over the top for it because they can, others just see it in the same light as treating any other animal in need. Where are you based?
Just be prepared to spend upwards of €100 if he needs any tests or anything more complicated than a quick examining and some meds.

inode

got him booked into the vet for tomorrow. she wants me to bring in both

inode

im located in letterkenny. ive heard great things about her. she seems to be very cheap too. someone just told me when they had their dog up with some ear infection or something she only charged €13

bounty_hunter

That was for a dog though
If it's only a quick pop in the door, glance at the animal, instant diagnosis situation a lot of vets will just waive their fees and only charge for the meds, so this is probably why it was so cheap for the person you spoke to. But again, this is usually for domestics, so just don't get your hopes on her doing the same for your terrapins
Nothing worse than going to pay and being told it's going to cost twice what you bargained for!

inode

ill bring 200 with me just in case. that should be more than enough. on another note ive had him in a seperate tank for the last 30mins and he hasnt touched his food.

tallus

Good link here to terrapin care Inode.
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/res.html

Rancid

inode wrote:

ill bring 200 with me just in case. that should be more than enough. on another note ive had him in a seperate tank for the last 30mins and he hasnt touched his food.

Have you offered him any live food while he's on his own in that tank? That really might get a reaction.
Worth trying anyway.

I don't have that problem, my YBS eats everything in her pond, she has the appetite of a medium-sized elephant.

inode

dont have any live food at home here to feed him.

here is a few pics of them

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/irishpal25/DSCF0367.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/irishpal25/DSCF0350-1.jpg

tallus

try get an earthworm

Our man in Havana

Buy some praws - try small chunks of cheese - I have 7 terrepins in total & have never known one to refuse dinner - prawns go down really well. I would say get him to the vet ASAP as he could very easily die! I dont mean to alarm you but in the wild animals try to mask sickness for as long as possible so by the time we notice they are often close to death.

Let us know how he gets on.

FranknFurter

nando wrote:

Why do you say only guppies FF?

Mainly because they are very obvious (colourful & make "jerky" movements) and for baby res's not "too" big or fast.

B

inode

just back from the vets. she said his shell is a bit soft at the back. he might be too far gone to save him but he seems lively. and told me to get him a vit. supplement online. she also gave him a calcium injection. all together only charged for €5.

where is the best place online to buy it as my local pet store doesnt have any?

meant to say needs to be in drops

Shelli

Can you describe your set up please?

I could be wrong but from that pic it looks like your keeping both of them in a small fish bowl with a rock in it.

A> This tank is much too small for two YBS.
B> Do you have a heater in the tank?
C> Do you have a filter in the tank?
D> Do you have a heat bulb for basking?
E> Do you have a UV lamp?

All of the above is extremely important, and any turtle kept indoors without the above is bound to become ill very quickly. I have kept YBS & RES for nearly 14 years now.

Check out this site for more help on set ups and care:
www.turtleforum.com

YBS can be expensive to set up and grow up to 13 inches long (female), so a very large tank will be needed to house two.

Sorry if I sound patronising, I could be wrong and you might have all this already, it's just from that pic you posted it doesn't look like it.

inode

i have all of the above. the pic is wen i had him in a seperate tank( trying to make him eat by himself)

meant to say she said that other one was extremely healthy.

Shelli

Ah ok, sorry about that.

Do you have gravel in your tank where they normally are? If you do it could be a case of impaction?

inode

no big pebbles. you have any links for a vitimin supplement as pet shop here doesnt have any at all. need to order one ASAP. got a guppy in the him now and he is scared of it

Ferrety

Hi inode,

I do not have first-hand experience with terrapins, however, since I have years of experience with other omnivorous animals, perhaps your troublesome pet is almost exclusively vegetarian?
I had pets of the same species, where one would love chicken, ham, etc., the other one was totally disinterested in any meat or fish, but would have done anything for milk, yoghurts, cheese, etc.
And another pet, who was practically vegetarian and didn’t like either of the above food groups – all of them though, needed their vegetables, nuts and seeds.

So, maybe you could offer your pet a wider, more interesting, fresher variety of sea vegetables, water plants and whatever else it eats in the wild (you may have to research that)? You said yourself that he ate plants in the tank if nothing else, thus offering him as rich a variety of water plants as possible may be part of the solution.
Also, perhaps you should remove the more active pet out of the bigger tank, and not the other way around, because once in a new place, your sickly pet has to adjust to the new environment, etc, thus the new smaller environment may not be conducive to promoting appetite.

Plus, I am a firm believer in the healing powers of nature, so (since you cannot physically bring your pet into its natural habitat) the more of it you can bring indoors, the better; in your case - the biggest "free" living environment you can give them (as big a tank as you can get, with as much water and surface to climb out on as possible - depending on the ratio of these in the wild for this species), and as much live, growing vegetation and other natural objects in that environment as possible would definitely improve the atmosphere of your pet's habitat, and therefore, its well-being.

From what I've seen these little guys love bright light, so they probably crawl out onto rocks and warm themselves in the sun until they can do so no more in nature, if this is the case, then putting your tank (even if it's a temporary measure) into the sunniest place you can find in your home during the day, could give a great boost to your pet's immunity.

Unless your pet is exclusively nocturnal, it definitely needs actual sunshine – depending on how much of it they get in the wild. If terrapins love sunshine, then it’s a great pity that your poor pet became sick during the winter, otherwise, you could put the bowl outside in the sun for a while (supervised, of course, and possibly with some sheltering – like covering half of the bowl with a piece of cardboard, if terrapins need shadow, and obviously monitoring the temperature of the water in the tank, because with such small bowl, the water may become too hot, even on a windowsill in a very sunny position). I am sure that if this fits in with what terrapins do in nature.

Letting them warm themselves up in the REAL sun, as opposed to a bulb would be extremely good for them. Scientists are constantly discovering the benefits and necessity of sunshine for most life forms on this planet (including humans, since a few studies have found recently that complementation with vitamin D cannot fully replace vitamin D, which we would metabolise ourselves in the sunshine).

Once again, if you don't know already how EXACTLY terrapins live in their natural environment, you should definitely find out: how much they hunt, bask in the sun and swim per day; what's their normal "territory" - do they live in groups, pairs, alone; do they protect their "hunting grounds" or move around all the time in search of food without a permanent "place of residence"; what is the normal diet vegetable : prey ratio for females/males, does it change much with seasons; is the air in their natural habitat humid or dry, even though they live in water; do they migrate, swim long distances, etc.

Knowing this and more is very important in establishing the best artificial environment for a pet. If you are serious about your pets’ well being, then your aim is to recreate as much of what was taken away from them by capturing them in the first place (even if the pet in question is "tank-bread"). The inborn instincts and your pet's connection to the great outdoors will never cease, because when that happens, your pet stops enjoying life to its fullest and feels lost, miserable and cut off from its natural place in the world, it develops sickness or stops living altogether. Never do we see as much life and vigour as when our pets are allowed to be part of what they are - nature; we notice how alive and happy dogs look when they run around parks and wild fields and meadows, digging and hunting for their own pleasure, or how happy previously caged pet bird may look, chirping as we've never heard it before and flying around in the trees when it escapes (even if it does so in the wrong climate and wrong country).
So I would say, if you don't know enough about the "life style" of your pets in the wild, then research it online and after that give them as much of what was taken from them as you can!

The shallow parts of the ocean are never barren - there is always a lot of vegetation growing on the sea floor, there are whole sea-weed "forests" under water, and since your pets live above the surface too, don't forget the sun and fresh air, even if they are susceptible to cold, you can still air the room while monitoring and keeping the temperature high.

I hope this slightly different angle will help you as it helped me with my sick pets - the "natural" approach always works, if the disease hasn't gone too far, but even then the pet gets happier, even if its end is inevitable.

I hope your poor pet will get well and bring you a lot of happy moments.

inode

thanks for the ferrety. i have 3 different types of aquarium plants in the tank. 1 was eaten in under a week but im not sure by whom. the others have been there for a while.

the pet shop guy said to me i should have a heatlamp with no more than 15w. is this correct?

tallus

depends on how far it is from the basking spot?

inode

so lets say i have a 40watt about 20inches above the basking rock is that ok?

FranknFurter

Ferrety wrote:

The shallow parts of the ocean are never barren - there is always a lot of vegetation growing on the sea floor, there are whole sea-weed "forests" under water, and since your pets live above the surface too, don't forget the sun and fresh air, even if they are susceptible to cold, you can still air the room while monitoring and keeping the temperature high.

Just want to make the point that these are not saltwater animals. In case of any mis-understanding.
(Also, had to edit your post Ferrety as it was kinda hard to read all one big block like that, sorry. Dint change any words though I like the way you think )

B

tallus

inode wrote:

so lets say i have a 40watt about 20inches above the basking rock is that ok?

Use a thermometer to test the temperature?

nando

Hi OP. Just wondering how the little guy fared - did he make it in the end? And how is the bigger one getting on?

Jimkel

inode wrote:

the setup is decent, the water temp is 25 degrees, got a good filter, uvb light etc.

i feed them fish r fun turtle and small retile food. the other one loves it. but the anorexic one hasnt bothered to even look at the food since day one or another brand ive thrown at him. he has nibbled on aquarium plants though.

he just lazes around on the rocks all day or under water.

1 Yellow bellied sliders are not Terrapins, they are Turtles.

2 The water temp should be between 35 and 40 degrees. They are cold blooded and cannot digest properly if too cold, they need heat. This must be the problem. RAISE THE TEMP WITH YOUR HEATER

3 make sure there is a platform they can get to in order to bask 6 inches from the UV light

4 take the plants out of the water. Unless you really know what your doing they could be poiseness to the turtles if eatin. Dandylions are safe to eat do not feed iceberg lettuce because there are no nutrients.

5 try live food eg live worms, frozen mice, red mosquito larvea or feeder fish
Not goldfish, only guppies or minnows.

6 try feed in the same place and the same time everyday. so they get used to it

7 if your feeling brave try handfeeding the dried stick food, this can be done safely by making them pop there heads out of the water to reach for the food, that way you'll keep your fingertips intact! and you can keep an eye on what the skinny one is eating

8 Never handle your turtles unless necessary. They do not appreciate beaing handled and the stress of it could lead to weightloss and loss of appatite

9 They eat meat, but as they age they may become completly vegatarian


goodluck with the skinny one, I would recommend bringing him to a reputable petshop which has there own resident reptile expert. Whackers in the city center is a good one, or Kinselly pet shop on the malahide road, And of course the Reptile havan just off the quays near Dublin city counsell HQ. These are better then vets for advice as most Irish vets have no experience with Reptiles and Amphibians.

Jimkel

inode wrote:

so lets say i have a 40watt about 20inches above the basking rock is that ok?

No man thats not ok, you dont need a heat lamp. Drys them out too fast. the water warms them, you should have an underwater heater. The light from the Flourescent reptilel light is perfect, needs to be changed every 6 months.

Plenty of Warm (35 - 40 degrees C) water to swim in and a basking area under a specific Reptile UV light (can be purchased in most pet stores) at the right distance so the turtle can be 6 inches from the light source.

Its imperative that you raise the temp to at least 35 degrees as its not good for your turtles.

If you are referencing a book on terrapins you are referencing the wrong animal. This is a turtle, you should buy book on sliders.

There is an excellent book in Whackers in the city center on pet turtles, I cant remember what its called but its the only one there.

your habitat for the turtle should consist of mostly deep water with a decent sized dry basking area easily accesable from the water.

Good luck man I must repeat YELLOW BELLIED SLIDERS ARE NOT TERRAPINS AND SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS SUCH, they come from a warmer climate then terrappins.

I looked at the pics you posted and I can clearly see there is not near enough water, they like deep water because it holds heat, they need it to exercise and therefore build up an appitite. You really should consider getting

2 foot by 1 foot AQUARIUM fill mostly with water about 3 quaters.

A Turtle dock (basking fixture) as large as you can afford as they will grow

An underwater heater (essentiall)

A powerhead filter/ pump for water quality

A specific reptile Flourescent light bulb with a starter.

A book on turtles

These are the basic requirements of a Turtle.

tallus

Jimkel, I'm wondering where you got those 35-40C temperature settings from.
23-29C is the recommended water temp for aquatic turtles according to the tortoise trust. I'd lend plenty of weight to anything I find on their site, they have been keeping tortoises and turtles for a long time.
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/aquatic.html

FranknFurter

tallus wrote:

Jimkel, I'm wondering where you got those 35-40C temperature settings from.
23-29C is the recommended water temp for aquatic turtles according to the tortoise trust. I'd lend plenty of weight to anything I find on their site, they have been keeping tortoises and turtles for a long time.
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/aquatic.html

Was wondering that myself, 35-40C seems a bit *too* much imho. Although maybe in the early years and depending on tank size 30C would be good.

Just my opinion but I would err on the side of caution and not go over 30.

Also, if you are feeding any plant matter, make sure it has not been exposed to fetilisers or plant food or weed killer, and always wash it thouroughly.
I remember a woman telling me she used to scrape some cuttlefish bone (sold in most pet shops for birds to gnaw on), onto some wet dandelion leaf peices as a calcium supplement. Not sure how well it would work, but it sounds like it helped and if not no harm done.

Also, do remember, their basking platform needs to be as big as possible (at least twice the size of the turtle), and should be smooth not just a rock pointing out of the water, imagine if you had to cling on to the side of a tree to get sun, or balance on a pointy or spikey rock, wouldnt be all that comfy now would it
Some people seem to think that just because a turtle has a shell, it dosent mind uncomfortable basking areas, they forget about shell scraping and legs.

Off topic, but I have to say, I really wish petshop owners would tell buyers about these particular turtles or better still, not sell them. They are (again) suddenly in every damned pet shop again with absolutely no attention paid to their welfare. Being sold with the old clear plastic bucket style "aquarium" along with the "plastic island and palm tree" in the middle.
Its like deja-vu back to the 80's when the same thing happened with them.

B

(Inode, you do know that the bulb you need is NOT just a regular light bulb right? Its a specialist bulb bought in a petshop, just making sure as this is VERY important if your little guy has a soft shell right now).

tallus

I'd agree with frankenfurter and stay on the lower side of 30C. I dont know of any reptile that needs more than 30C to thermoregulate/digest food, but i'm open to correction there.
I use a UVB lamp with my tortoises. UVB is the spectrum of light needed by Chelonians for Vitamin D3 conversion to calcium. It's a combined heat/uvb lamp and works quite well so far.
After keeping and breeding several species of reptiles over the years I have never had a species that needed more than 30C to function.
I use cuttlefish bone on my tortoises as a calcium source as well as Limestone flour which is very high in calcium and can easily be absorbed into the system by the tortoises.

inode

thanks all. just noticed this topic is still going. lol

the YBS is doing much better now. just to clarify i have all of the requirements they need. as i said before the pic of posted is of a seperate tank i put them in to feed

tallus

Good idea on the feeding inode, they can really mess the water up with their feeding the way they rip everything to shreds with those front legs/claws.

Jimkel

Lads I was reading straight out of a book on yellow bellied sliders, It is very high tough, I think 30 degrees myself would be perfect for them in a small tank. See there mostly aquatic reptiles, and as we know water holds heat at the bottom, this book meant these instructions for a large tank/pond because as we know water holds heat at the bottom, so if you heat the deep water to 35 degrees it will keep the surrounding the water around 30 degrees, cooler as it nears the surface.. But in a small or average size tank, that would not be the case. I agree 30 degrees

tallus

Heat also rises

Our man in Havana

Have to say they do not need heated water - YBS, RES & terrepins can live outside in Ireland & the UK all of my 6 live in a paddling pool & they are fine the only thing that they can not do is hatch eggs as the ground temps are too cool - they are all over the uk now as people dump them when they get too big.

Shane190

I have 7 terrepins in total

How big are they now? are they all in the one tank? if they are the tank must be massive. what size is it?

magnumlady

Bond-007 wrote:

Have to say they do not need heated water - YBS, RES & terrepins can live outside in Ireland & the UK all of my 6 live in a paddling pool & they are fine the only thing that they can not do is hatch eggs as the ground temps are too cool - they are all over the uk now as people dump them when they get too big.

Is that right? Most people are saying they do need heated water.
We are thinking of getting one and have been told to get a big tank, filter, heater and basking lamp, floating dock.

Shane190

I never heard of them being kept in a paddling pool. I have a 3ft tank for my 3. I dont have a basking lamp and mine are fine but everything else magnumlady mentioned are necessary.

Bond-007 do you have any pictures of your setup?

Rancid

I have a rescue YBS, age about 8 or 9, in an indoor 120 gallon preformed pond.
Water temp varies between 22 and 26 C and she has uv and heat lights for 12 hours a day. She has a filter and 2 heaters.

I'm hoping to have her in the garden in the summer this year, but I assumed I'd need the heaters running all the time.

Shane190

What is a YBS?

magnumlady

Shane190 wrote:

What is a YBS?

Yellow bellied slider