Benchpress!!

davyjose

I've read numerous times, in many articles that the three most important exercises are Squats, Deadlifts and the Benchpress. But the Benchpress stands out as the most 'famous' of all. I'm in no way doubting that this is an extremely beneficial workout, but is there too much of an onus on it, at the expense of other exercises?
Everybody - particularly newbies - wants to get on a bench and start lifting. You hear about the Benchpress a lot more than say, bent-over rows. If i take a look around my Gym on any given night, there are a disproportinate amount of people working on their chest.
I read an article with Arnold in from the early nineties where he was asked how much he Benched (case in point: he wasn't asked for any other stats), and he said he hardly ever benched as he found exercises that worked better for him.
So why does everybody want to bench, and is it a problem?

D-Generate

Because its easiest of the three I imagine?

Requires least technique and your average joe would rather boast about his upper body strength than his lower body or back strength....

HammerHeadGym

yeah, that talking train is right.

It's the white elephant everyone loves to brag about. Far too much emphasis is placed on it in the bodybuilding world. Too much for my purposes i mean. Obviously, the body builders have to build towards the judges aesthetic ideal.

tribulus

I think many people do it because it easy to just bend your arms and push back up!

Though I feel to truly get the most out of the exercise many people are performing the benchpress not necessarily incorrectly but certainly not optimally.

Feet flat, lower back arched, upper back tight, lats flared, belly pressure up and elbows tucked = a great exercise.

Random set up, elbows flared, not much stability = some chest stimulation and mildly sore shoulders (for me anyway)

Dragan

I imagine that a large reason is because non gym going males and females do not associate, or even look at, well developed backs and legs as being sources and indicators of strength and power. Arms, shoulders and chest. That’s what you average sexual partner wants.

justsomebloke

Dragan wrote:

That’s what you average sexual partner wants.

agreed, when was the last time you saw a man's back on the cover of a non-lifting magazine

Degsy

Bench is a very satisfying lift,its the universal bench(!) mark of how strong you are and tbh its the one most people get the most satisfaction from.Its also comparatively comfortable compared to say squats or deadlifts which really bust the bloodvessels!

BrianD3

Ever notice in the movies if someone is shown "lifting weights" they're almost always shown benching. Like it or not the bench press is ingrained in western society as THE exercise to do if you want to get bigger, tougher, stronger, more attractive or become better at any sport

There are many people out there who think that weight training and bench pressing are one and the same thing! Certainly whenever I bring up lifting in conversation with non lifting people the only exercise they've ever heard of is the bench press. BTW these are the same people who confuse protein shakes with steroids, think somone with 14 inch biceps must be "on something", think all bodybuilders are gay or have small dicks etc. etc. So I don't really pay much heed to what they say

Dragan

Degsy wrote:

its the universal bench(!) mark of how strong you are

I would very much disagree tbh. I don't think lying on your back and pusing something up in the air is a very good indicator of strenght at all. I would consider Squat and Deadlift to be far greater indicators of overall body strenght than the bench. And I would consider some strongman events to be the absolute king on "strenght".

t-ha

Yes well YOU would think that - but you have some idea of what you're talking about. I think if you told most non-lifter people you did weights then "what do you bench?" would be the very next question.

davyjose

Do you guys think there is too much emphasis on the bench? Just recently there was a thread on rounded shoulders, what is the reverse affliction (from overdoing the back)? I bet it's rare.

ruprect

BrianD3 wrote:

BTW these are the same people who confuse protein shakes with steroids,

Yes I am sick of this. I got a load of protein a while back, some intended for a mate who said he wanted some yet still has to pick it up. I would say most think bicep curls are the normal "doing weights thing" more than benching.

The guy who wanted the protein had dumbells, I was asking what he did, he was saying "what do you mean? I lift them" as if bicep curls were the only thing you could do. I was surprised at this since he is an experienced GAA player, hurling & football for years at a fairly senior level. Came out with all the classic lines, dont want to get big so lifts low weights about 30 reps everyday, did no leg work at all.

Then in the pub he was asking if I had the protein and another mate starts ranting on, now this guy is a very experienced athelete top junior cyclist in his day. I couldnt believe what I was hearing. And it was all "I am going to start doing protein", "I wouldnt take that sh.it" talking about it like drugs. I was telling him he better lay off the ice cream since some of it is loaded with whey protein, and butter, jesus, they separate protein from milk, but some crazy bastards eat fat that is separated from milk too.

I would imagine many also do benching in gyms since they feel they are getting more value for money, i.e. using facilities to the fullest, "why am I paying 500 per year to use only freeweights that cost €100 in argos". Benching is a good compound exercise that uses a lot of muscles too so they may not bother doing say bicep curls. It feels safer to many than squats and deadlifts too.

Degsy

t-ha wrote:

Yes well YOU would think that - but you have some idea of what you're talking about. I think if you told most non-lifter people you did weights then "what do you bench?" would be the very next question.

I say "universal" in the sense that "everybody" knows about it as an excercise and would have some idea of say,200kg being a lot.It is true that non-lifetrs will usually start by saying "How much do you bench?"..its just the way it is..

Dragan

Degsy wrote:

200kg being a lot

Actually, i normally find that non lifters need stuff converted to stone for them to grasp it.

BrianD3

Dragan wrote:

Actually, i normally find that non lifters need stuff converted to stone

Or to "bags of cement"

iregk

I agree with Dragan, any time I'm talking to mates that dont train its whats that in st and pounds!!!

I think the reason is and I believe this was touched on before is the whole look aspect. For instance. If you have well definded and big powerfull legs but a small chest most people (non lifters) will think that your not that big and strong. However you could have small skinny legs and a big chest and its assumed that your a horse of a man. Squating is very important as its the largest muslce group you will use and produces hormones to aid your build/recovery. Dead lifting is something that a lot of people are afraid of. If your technique isn't spot on you can end up doing a lot of damage to yourself.

Also on the looks its the whole pub/night club aspect as well. When your in a club people (posers) want to look their best with the skin tight white tops so they work the chest more. Nobody can see your legs in your jeans so why bother? Ever go to your gym on a saturday afternoon and wonder why a lot of guys are workign their chest? its in prep for later on that night. To also echo Dragan again, when I want to look and guage someone I look at their back and how built up that is.

Degsy

Dragan wrote:

Actually, i normally find that non lifters need stuff converted to stone for them to grasp it.

Depends on the age and nationality.When i'm hanging with my harem of 20 year-old continental girls and bragging..they know what i'm talking 'bout!:D

Frederick

I think the squat is king. I focused on overhead squats for a couple of weeks when college got hectic, and noticed an all round increase in size. And strenght went way up aswell. Im training for olympic lifting though, no more than 5 reps anytime so that may be the reason......funnily enough, once I started doing them, random groups of GAA jocks starting trying them aswell! its all very amusing.....

The main reason people work their chest is because they can look at themselves in the mirror and see progress. The back is harder to define because more fat tends to accumulate there than the chest, and many people find it difficult to work on an area that u can't see working.
I don't do barbell benchpress because I personally think it isn't the best for my shoulders, mine are a bit dodgy, and the dumbell bench is much more useful in terms of balance and difficulty. Of course bb benchpress done correctly works well for many people;)

daveirl

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D-Generate

BrianD3 wrote:

think somone with 14 inch biceps must be "on something"

With only 14" arms? Paaaathetic

Lats get noticed when you're out though. Well not so much as girls going "wow lats" but more so as in you get a V-Torso going on which is somewhat desirable or so i'm told from the ladies that i'm beating off with big stick....

Skiesonfire19

It's a psycological thing, our chest is in front of us.. It's the first thing the opposite sex see's on us, much like guys looking at a girls chest!

And the resaon them three are the best, it's because of all exercises, be they compound or isolation, deadlifts, squats and bench pressing raise your testosterone levels the most!

t-ha

Skiesonfire19 wrote:

deadlifts, squats and bench pressing raise your testosterone levels the most!

temporarily, then they plummet unfortunately.

JayRoc

Actually, I find the bench to be, generally, a nice indication of upper body strength- if someone tells me their numbers in the three lifts it'll give me a rough idea of their level, and the bench would be as pertinent as the squat and deadlift in gauging overall strength, in my opinion.

And, while not suiting everyone, it is a fantastic exercise and one which leads to brilliant results, (and it's also one of the most fun!) although I'll stipulate that the incline variation would suit some folks better.

davyjose

JayRoc wrote:

Actually, I find the bench to be, generally, a nice indication of upper body strength- if someone tells me their numbers in the three lifts it'll give me a rough idea of their level, and the bench would be as pertinent as the squat and deadlift in gauging overall strength, in my opinion.

But if, as said before, someone spends all their time benching at the expense of other exercises, such as their back, then this isn't an accurate guage of upper body strength. And for reasons previously mentioned - even by yourself - people do spend way too much time benching.

TerrorFirmer

davyjose wrote:

But if, as said before, someone spends all their time benching at the expense of other exercises, such as their back, then this isn't an accurate guage of upper body strength. And for reasons previously mentioned - even by yourself - people do spend way too much time benching.

Unsurprisingly, for many people its primarily about asthetics over actual strength. In which case, the bench is a classic ingrained image of bulking up.

I actually use the bench very little - maybe one group of 3 sets max. Spend most of my time just doing general this and that, nothing too big or notable. I want to get stronger primarily and bigger as a bonus stemming from that, but to alot of guys, in fact many I know, its simply the exact reversal of that very statement.

Whenever I go to the gym with my friend he follows the exact same routine - oblivious to my comments that it's not necessary to do so much when he could be focusing on other areas - 10 sets of the bench and not awhole lot else other then situps and a few curls.

Sangre

Its also pretty useless for most sports.

Degsy

Sangre wrote:

Its also pretty useless for most sports.

Boxing?

Dragan

Degsy wrote:

Boxing?

Boxing is more technique than anything. Any actually strenght would really be tricep/shoulder orientated anything. But the real power in a punch is technique.

Shrimp

Sangre wrote:

Its also pretty useless for most sports.

Rugby.

Dragan

Shrimp wrote:

Rugby.

Personally i would consider oly lifts and squat and dead lift variants to be more useful to a rugby player. No doubt the bench is an important movement but for me it could be replaced with dumbell pressing, as from experience the likelihood of having both hands on a player as you would a bar if slim to none. Just me though.

daveirl

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Aedh Baclamh

Gaelic? Holding off an opponent?

D-Generate

The UCC rugby lads don't go near the flat bench I don't think. Its all entirely variations of squats, deadlifts and olympic lifts.

I find the incline bench will aid a punch a good bit more in boxing and to keep a strong guard. Also a punch uses a lot of core strength so squats and deads are probably better than flat bench for it.

brianthebard

Aedh Baclamh wrote:

Gaelic? Holding off an opponent?

With your chest? Unless they were smaller than you and ran into it... I think people are pointing to sports where are strong chest are important, but failing to realise that it is not the most important muscle group. (although obviously its better to have a balanced physique) For Gaelic a strong core, legs and shoulders will hold you in better stead than being able to bench a lot.

BrianD3

I'd imagine heavy chin/pull ups and rows would be better for gaelic than bench.

As for boxing - surely a power punch comes from the foot, leg and hip with the pectoral muscles contributing very little.

Shrimp

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Do you hand off with your shoulders..?

Still tho, I do agree that the bench is not the most beneficial exercise for rugby players.

Jak

Fair bit of nonsense being posted here folks.

Some of the posts sound like teenage boys moaning about other kids they see benching more and more often than them, but are convinced they aren't really strong in all the ways they are themselves from their super balanced regimes.

Bench press - and variations from dumbells to barbells - wide grip to narrow grip, incline to decline is the best upper body development excersise available to you.

To say a heavy and good bench is not a good indication of upper body strength is utter nonsense. You will not ever develop a good heavy bench without strong grip, wrists, forearms, arms, shoulders, neck, chest or lats.

If you ditch every other upper body focused training day but your varied chest session, you will struggle to lose strength in shoulders, arms and even lats. Certainly these are not the primary muscle group in the movements, but after 11 years of having 1 serious benching session a week, I can assure you that very little of your upper body is left uninvolved in a decent bench session.

As for benefiting sports. I have trained and trained with Rugby players (still do) - bench remains hugely beneficial for overall upper body development. No more than squats for lower body. As with any sport - the sport itself is the best training - but excess strength over your competitors is never a burden.

I also boxed at super heavy and the strength and power from bench was always useful - the only issue I ever had was with regard to muscular endurance for punching and trying to balance the two types of training out.

JAK

Also incline bench is not an alternative to OBP - it is a different excersise in a chest session.

Dragan

Fair enough Jak, I don't think anyone disputed the fact that the bench in general is a good lift….i believe that I disputed that it was a great indicator of strenght. Which I still believe. I know plenty of people with a big bench with very little anything else. I would not consider them strong, I would consider them to be strong benchers.

Also, with regard to any of the sports mentioned above ( rugby, gaelic, boxing etc ) would you consider benching to be the most crucial freeweight exercise in terms of the athletes development?

Jak

I wouldn't say any freeweight excersise was crucial to the training of any of those sports - though I never played Gaelic. If you have a specific weakness then freeweights can be used to target and improve that area. If you are already quite balanced - then a good bench routine is your best all-round option for upper body strength development if you are limiting your free weight work.

Ideally you should progress your strength as much as you can without adversely affecting the time you spend in specific sport coaching sessions.

As for strong benchers but not strong. We might have different viewpoints here - I've never met anyone with a 400-500lb bench who was just a strong bencher - and I've met a few. You just don't get away with it. Even at 315lbs you need a reasonably good level of limb and joint strength to get away with it for full reps with good form.

JAK

Dragan

Jak wrote:

As for strong benchers but not strong. We might have different viewpoints here

Cheers for the reply dude.

As for the strong benchers thing, I should have been a bit clearer there. What I was talking about were trainees who have the strength required to lift a comparatively big bench compared to the rest of their lifts. So lets say people who might bench a lot more than they deadlift or squat. Idle trainers basically but the would have a reasonable bench for an average gym goer.

Sorry about that as I was not trying to imply top end benching.

Sangre

Obviously we're the bench is a good exercise when used in a complete program. We're talking about the lads off the street who come in, bench a few times, swing a few dumbells and leave. Late you hear them going on about what they bench etc.,

Clearly someone who benches 400-500lbs is educated and trained enough to go beyond this.

J.S. Pill

BrianD3 wrote:

Ever notice in the movies if someone is shown "lifting weights" they're almost always shown benching. Like it or not the bench press is ingrained in western society as THE exercise to do if you want to get bigger, tougher, stronger, more attractive or become better at any sport
QUOTE]

I saw an episode of Malcom in the Middle a few weeks ago where Hal befriends a group of competitive bodybuilders. When it shows the guys working out one guy does a bicep curl but then one guy does a bent over row then another does an upright row - that was quite refreshing to see.

And why don't you ever see well built guys on TV eating loads? You always see the guys on Home & Away benching but never stuffing their faces. Don't get me started on TV - maybe another thread.

(Disclaimer: I don't watch Home & Away)

Jak

Well, I would think people are most likely to talk about big deadlifts and squats as the numbers are generally most impressive. When I started as a kid I was the same. I like deadlift and squat because they were the ones where you hit what seemed like big respectable numbers quickly.

I don't really consider many of the people in my gym strong anyway. Probably about 7 other people all in. Irrespective, 315 is not really top end benching by any stretch, but I would just say that with regard to upper body strength, if some young lad is hitting that weight - he is not just some bluffer regardless of the rest of his program or training.

If you see someone come in and lift big only on the bench and disappear - it doesn't mean they are weak in other areas. They may have other sports or training you don't know about. Now I don't do that kind of thing, but I just think people should pay less attention to others and not get hung up on these sort of trivial rants. It won't improve you at all.

For the record, and because I think things are misunderstood my current bench session for the last while and next 2 weeks - runs as follows. The reason for posting it is that this is a bench press intensive program which sees me spending most time on the OBP - but it is a fantastic all round upper body session.

OBP sets followed by Wide Grip sets (so one OBP set then a minute then the wide grip) - Same reps and weight on both

12x70 + 12x70 | 10x90 + 10x90 | 8x110 + 8x110
7x120 + 7x120 | 6x140 + 6x140

OBP Only

4x160 3x165 2x175 1x187

Wide Grip Only

9x130 9x130

3 Stop Bench - bringing bar to a complete stop at top, middle and bottom of the lift on way down and up.

10x120 10x120

Incline Bench

8x120 8x120 - usually wrecked

DB Flyes - light and slow

10 x 60lb 10 x 60lb

Dips

30 regular leaned forward and 10 as slow as possible

Push Ups

21 nice and slow to finish

---

Now my point is there are 20 sets of bench in there before I move from the OBP and Incline - however, there is a variety of benching types in there - and by the end of the session I can feel the work to a certain extent in most of my upper body. If you are only doing one upper body session - choose a benching session.

JAK

Degsy

Jak wrote:

Well, I would think people are most likely to talk about big deadlifts and squats as the numbers are generally most impressive. When I started as a kid I was the same. I like deadlift and squat because they were the ones where you hit what seemed like big respectable numbers quickly.

I don't really consider many of the people in my gym strong anyway. Probably about 7 other people all in. Irrespective, 315 is not really top end benching by any stretch, but I would just say that with regard to upper body strength, if some young lad is hitting that weight - he is not just some bluffer regardless of the rest of his program or training.

If you see someone come in and lift big only on the bench and disappear - it doesn't mean they are weak in other areas. They may have other sports or training you don't know about. Now I don't do that kind of thing, but I just think people should pay less attention to others and not get hung up on these sort of trivial rants. It won't improve you at all.

For the record, and because I think things are misunderstood my current bench session for the last while and next 2 weeks - runs as follows. The reason for posting it is that this is a bench press intensive program which sees me spending most time on the OBP - but it is a fantastic all round upper body session.

OBP sets followed by Wide Grip sets (so one OBP set then a minute then the wide grip) - Same reps and weight on both

12x70 + 12x70 | 10x90 + 10x90 | 8x110 + 8x110
7x120 + 7x120 | 6x140 + 6x140

OBP Only

4x160 3x165 2x175 1x187

Wide Grip Only

9x130 9x130

3 Stop Bench - bringing bar to a complete stop at top, middle and bottom of the lift on way down and up.

10x120 10x120

Incline Bench

8x120 8x120 - usually wrecked

DB Flyes - light and slow

10 x 60lb 10 x 60lb

Dips

30 regular leaned forward and 10 as slow as possible

Push Ups

21 nice and slow to finish

---

Now my point is there are 20 sets of bench in there before I move from the OBP and Incline - however, there is a variety of benching types in there - and by the end of the session I can feel the work to a certain extent in most of my upper body. If you are only doing one upper body session - choose a benching session.

JAK

Bloody hell,thats some serious benching.How long did it take you to acheive?

Jak

Very hard to say.

Been training properly for about 11 years, but as with many people in that time you change focus and weight often enough. I've been stronger (about 4 years ago) but only when heavier. And frankly I felt too heavy at times - I never plan to go above 17st again - and am quite happy at 16 1/2 for now.

I tend to change based on what I think I want out of my training and what I feel I need to benefit my other activities.

I've said it often enough, but consistency is the key. You will learn more and understand more in time as long as you keep at it.

JAK.