No straight ahead sign

When will Ireland adopt the internationally recognised "No Entry" sign, In recent weeks I have seen a car on the wrong side of a duel carriageway, my wife almost met a car on the wrong side of a duel carriageway and there was a news report on the radio this morning about a car on the wrong side of the M4 near Kinnegad

Almost every other country has the red circle with a horizontal white bar across the centre, foreign nationals get confused by the "no straight ahead sign", because it is not as clearly defined as a No Entry sign (to non nationals), I nearly went through one when we first arrived!!, and stopped on seeing the old style one way signs :eek: (red circle means NO, arrow means straight ahead

In poor visibility it blends into the background and can be easily missed

I wonder how many deaths have been caused by these signs
Granted they are permitted in the Geneva convention as the alternative variation, but as everyone else has adopted the first choice. It is now time for Ireland to standardize the with no entry sign just as they had to with the "keep left" & "one way" signs etc

Seth Brundle

If people are too dumb to understand what an upward arrow with a red line through it then maybe they shouldn't be driving!

It's not that people dont understand them, it's that they are expecting a red circle with a white bar.

mikedragon32

But surely foreigners planning to drive here should make themselves familiar with the roadsigns?

I know the first time I drove on the continent, I made sure to familiarise myself.

Perhaps ferry companies & car hire firms should have some information relating to this?

Bluetonic

Deleted User wrote:

It's not that people dont understand them, it's that they are expecting a red circle with a white bar.

You shouldn't be driving on Irish roads until you fully understand the rules of the road which govern this state.

Can I ask you did you bother to read the rules of the road before you started driving on Irish roads?

wwhyte

Bluetonic wrote:

You shouldn't be driving on Irish roads until you fully understand the rules of the road which govern this state.

Can I ask you did you bother to read the rules of the road before you started driving on Irish roads?

It seems a bit unfair that the OP's getting scorn heaped on him for a fairly modest suggestion. There will always be drivers on the road who aren't familiar with the signs, whether or not they should be. If changing the No Entry sign protects others from these drivers it's worth considering.

While it's fairly obvious what our No Entry sign means when you look at it, it isn't as prominent as a big red circle, which makes it easier for a distracted driver to miss.

Alun

wwhyte wrote:

While it's fairly obvious what our No Entry sign means when you look at it, it isn't as prominent as a big red circle, which makes it easier for a distracted driver to miss.

Mot only that, but they're also generally smaller and more badly positioned (not uncommon here unfortunately) than the equivalent signs in the rest of Europe and often unlit too making them easy to miss.

Just as a question, why did Ireland choose a non-standard sign in the first place?

Hagar

Standarized signs across Europe would be a great idea. But in the meantime we have to live with what we've got and make a point of familiarizing ourselves with local signage when we travel. Is our sign any less confusing than this example which also means No Entry? The is no diagonal prohibition bar. It almost looks like "Stunt Drivers Ahead"


Or even this?Are motorbikes allowed if we follow the logic above?


Here's a more logical version of the top picture as used in India.


What about this one? No Nuttin' it seems.

seamus

Hagar wrote:

What about this one? No Nuttin' it seems.

Well, we have that one here. It means "Pedestrianised Zone".

I wonder how many Irish drivers would recognise the UK/EU sign for "No Entry". Certainly if I saw one here, I'd have to think about it for a second.

Trampas

How many times have we seen people still till turn left and right at junctions when the sign says no.

I feel alot people don't bother to look at signs they just think i need to head in that direction so lets go that way.

mackerski

seamus wrote:

I wonder how many Irish drivers would recognise the UK/EU sign for "No Entry". Certainly if I saw one here, I'd have to think about it for a second.

Really? We see them every day in common situations - on the wrong ends of escalators, in computer software user interfaces, they're all over the place.

Alun

Alun wrote:

Mot only that, but they're also generally smaller and more badly positioned (not uncommon here unfortunately) than the equivalent signs in the rest of Europe and often unlit too making them easy to miss.

Just as a question, why did Ireland choose a non-standard sign in the first place?

Yes this is essentially the point I am getting at, I was driving around for several weeks before I actually saw one!! (NO, I didn't go the wrong way down any on way streets!).

My main point is have an internationally recognised standard sign ( not just recognisable to motorists) , not use the alternative design that makes visitors think twice or worse not notice!.

As to why it was chosen.. Just to be different from the neighbours :rolleyes:

Hagar

Hagar wrote:

Standarized signs across Europe would be a great idea. But in the meantime we have to live with what we've got and make a point of familiarizing ourselves with local signage when we travel.

Yes, but where does a visitor find this information? Many Eurepean IRL/GB road maps have the international signs, plus some country specific signs (excluding irish ones)

seamus

mackerski wrote:

Really? We see them every day in common situations - on the wrong ends of escalators, in computer software user interfaces, they're all over the place.

Funny, I don't recall ever seeing it on the end of escalators (though I may not just have noticed), and never see it on computers, despite working with them 8-10 hours a day

Maybe it's just me.

Victor

Please use the default colours, do not add you own colours.

I cut-n-paste from word, looks OK in the default skin. will remove dodgy formatting.

Finally!
Those stupid signs are being replaced, I've seen several of the new correct signs in South Dublin this morning.

Hopefully it'll lead to a reduction in road users going up one way streets the wrong way!

Terrontress

Well, they have their benefits. I used to use this junction frequently to get to Donnybrook

http://www.google.co.uk/maps?q=dublin&hl=en&ll=53.332381,-6.252496&spn=0.010982,0.027874&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=22.350317,57.084961&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.332381,-6.252496&panoid=QVNAfwrvtlvjYNZaEbv0Iw&cbp=12,222.92,,0,-0.21

Of course the "no straight ahead" signs mean not to enter. I would drive through anyway and turn left. If ever stopped, my argument was going to be that I was turning left, not going straight on over to Adelaide Road.

Of course, I was never stopped!

A red circle with a white bar would have cut out that reasoning.

AlekSmart

The topic is in reality quite academic,as there is a sizeable and highly focused rump of Irelands motoring elite who will always think,"ah sure that's for the other lad...I'm just nipping across".

Lane awareness,lane discipline and general road placement here is of the lowest possible standard.

There are so many examples,where a combination of poor or poorly installed infrastructure and general driver ignorance result in near misses on an hourly basis.

The No Right Turn bans along Mobhi Road in Glasnevin is one particular location which I have to contend with daily as I attempt to turn right from Home Farm Road onto Mobhi Road only to have my nose cut off by some wild eyed neanderthal doing a quick illegal right turn into Home Farm Road,usually with a dirty look,wild-eyed grin and/or chattering into a mobile phone.

What is doubly concerning is the number of these creatures who are female,carrying groups of young children and infants in their vehicles and perform the same manouvere every day !!

I'm not of a mind to classify this stuff as anything less than a measure of child abuse and indicative of a greater "don't give a shyte" attitude to the wellbeing of their own children or those in their care.

This codology would be immediately stopped in it's tracks by the installation of a Junction Monitoring camera and the automatic issue of Fines and Points,however our authorities continually shy away from utilising the "New" video technology in this focused manner,preferring instead to play to the "Speed-Kills" gallery or the "Go-Safe" message.

In our time honoured style,we'll always wait for the inevitable to occur and then scramble like lunatics to nail shut the stable door.

Marcusm

Terrontress wrote: »

Well, they have their benefits. I used to use this junction frequently to get to Donnybrook

http://www.google.co.uk/maps?q=dublin&hl=en&ll=53.332381,-6.252496&spn=0.010982,0.027874&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=22.350317,57.084961&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.332381,-6.252496&panoid=QVNAfwrvtlvjYNZaEbv0Iw&cbp=12,222.92,,0,-0.21

Of course the "no straight ahead" signs mean not to enter. I would drive through anyway and turn left. If ever stopped, my argument was going to be that I was turning left, not going straight on over to Adelaide Road.

Of course, I was never stopped!

A red circle with a white bar would have cut out that reasoning.

You may have been one of the many people I have been frustrated by as I have entered that road over the years so!!!

My absolute favourite was the guy drinking coffee and moving forward trying to push me out of the way - his ultimate solution was to put on his siren and blue lights - an undercover Garda car trying to drive the wrong way likely through sheer laziness but how can I assume this to be the case - maybe because of the 2 minute stand off before he turned them on.

Is it too difficult to try not to deliberately break the law?

AlekSmart

Marcusm wrote: »

You may have been one of the many people I have been frustrated by as I have entered that road over the years so!!!

My absolute favourite was the guy drinking coffee and moving forward trying to push me out of the way - his ultimate solution was to put on his siren and blue lights - an undercover Garda car trying to drive the wrong way likely through sheer laziness but how can I assume this to be the case - maybe because of the 2 minute stand off before he turned them on.

Is it too difficult to try not to deliberately break the law?

Interesting that in it's continuing quest to impose Cycleways upon somewhat unsuitable locations the arrangements at Leeson st Bridge are now full of potential for disaster with constant Right-Turns now being made on the Bridge itslef in addition to constant flows of pedestrians and cyclists unwilling to wait for the green man/bicycle.....a disaster zone in the making !!

-Chris-

Deleted User wrote: »

Finally!
Those stupid signs are being replaced, I've seen several of the new correct signs in South Dublin this morning.

Hopefully it'll lead to a reduction in road users going up one way streets the wrong way!

I'd say it'll lead to an increase rather than a decrease.

This will take a period of adjustment for some drivers who have gotten used to an arrow with a line through it. In the meantime you'll see mistakes.

Terrontress

Marcusm wrote: »

You may have been one of the many people I have been frustrated by as I have entered that road over the years so!!!

Is it too difficult to try not to deliberately break the law?

Like most Irish people, I tend to only obey those laws I consider worth obeying. Especially where there is little chance of punishment.

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

I'd say it'll lead to an increase rather than a decrease.

This will take a period of adjustment for some drivers who have gotten used to an arrow with a line through it. In the meantime you'll see mistakes.

The fact that it's a big read circle with a white line through it will jump out and hit you in the eyes, even if you're used to using that "short cut", but then again Irish drivers tend only to see signs when it suits them!

My missus turned right, despite two no right rurn signs and "no right turn" written on the road, afterwards I say to her "didn't you see the signs!", What signs!" she says...:rolleyes:

-Chris-

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact that it's a big read circle with a white line through it will jump out and hit you in the eyes, even if you're used to using that "short cut", but then again Irish drivers tend only to see signs when it suits them!

I disagree.

Now we have a situation where red circle with white line (and no arrow) means don't proceed, whereas the no turning right/left sign still contains an arrow.

Also, presumably the straight ahead only sign will still contain an arrow, while the don't go straight ahead sign won't.

It's brought in an element of inconsistency.

ardmacha

Also, presumably the straight ahead only sign will still contain an arrow, while the don't go straight ahead sign won't.

I think you've missed the point. The No Entry sign means do not pass the sign, whether you are going straight ahead or turning left or right.

-Chris-

ardmacha wrote: »

I think you've missed the point. The No Entry sign means do not pass the sign, whether you are going straight ahead or turning left or right.

I do understand, and will understand and obey the new sign when I see it.
I'm more trying to express the opinion that "woo hoo, the new sign is here, this will reduce the number of people driving the wrong way up a street/dualcarriageway" is possibly incorrect.
Unless most literature is updated at the same time, and the RSA have an information campaign, I see this creating as much confusion as it solves, for a short while at least.

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

I disagree.

Now we have a situation where red circle with white line (and no arrow) means don't proceed, whereas the no turning right/left sign still contains an arrow.

Also, presumably the straight ahead only sign will still contain an arrow, while the don't go straight ahead sign won't.

It's brought in an element of inconsistency.

Most of the signs on that image are now outdated!
Red circle means "NO!" don't do what's in the circle, the diagonal reinforces that message, the old "turn left", "turn right" signs, caused crashes as they have the exact opposite menaing every else in Europe, so had to be changed!

-Chris-

Deleted User wrote: »

Half the signs on that image are now outdated!

Apologies, I just Google Image'd for Irish road signs.

Can you link to the up-to-date signs so we're all talking about the same thing?

All the current Official signs are in this series of manuals.

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=12971&lang=ENG&loc=2635

Can't find any thumbnails though.

-Chris-

Deleted User wrote: »

Red circle means "NO!" don't do what's in the circle, the diagonal reinforces that message, the old "turn left", "turn right" signs, caused crashes as they have the exact opposite menaing every else in Europe, so had to be changed!

Can you re-explain that bit? Do you mean the diagonal is being gotten rid of and just a red circle is enough to say "don't do this"?

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

Can you re-explain that bit? Do you mean the diagonal is being gotten rid of and just a red circle is enough to say "don't do this"?

No, the the red circle means no and the diagonal reinforces the message, it was the old Irish signs that had a red circle and "ordered" you to do what was in the circle that caused a dangerous confusion with Europeans who understand the NO meaning.

The "No Left" and "No Right" signs will retain the diagonal as this universal in Europe already (an exception to the rule, along with no parking).

The "parking sign" is now the only odd one out left to change, Europeans think it means "No Parking!"

-Chris-

I hope the general public doesn't find this as confusing as I currently am.

Are all signs being changed to European standard or just the No Entry sign?

There are several miner changes, the No Entry sign is the most noticable one, there some more blue background signs replacing white background signs (information type), Disabled parking for example.

PseudoFamous

I'm going to be honest here, the new signs mean nothing to me. If I saw them, I'd think "WTF?", especially with the EU No Entry one. You'd need to be fairly simple to not know that an arrow with a red line through it means "DON'T GO THIS DIRECTION", whereas a white bar doesn't signify anything to me, and I can guarantee that this is going to cause massive amounts of confusion amongst older drivers, as well as anyone who hasn't heard about these changes.

CIE

Deleted User wrote: »

Red circle means "NO!" don't do what's in the circle

Where?

Oh, Germany and France. Yes, every good little "European" must obey and throw away their national identities while those at the top get to keep theirs.

Never used to be that the red circle was instructions not to do something; used to be the opposite. The "don't do" instruction was described by the stroke through.

Things can be confusing, though. Does this mean "don't yield to oncoming traffic on this one-lane road"?

Breezer

CIE wrote: »

Things can be confusing, though. Does this mean "don't yield to oncoming traffic on this one-lane road"?

What on earth does that sign mean and what country is it used in? To me it means 'Two way traffic' but I had to think about it and then guess.

PseudoFamous

Breezer wrote: »

What on earth does that sign mean and what country is it used in? To me it means 'Two way traffic' but I had to think about it and then guess.

I believe I saw that sign in Germany, and I believe (Don't quote me on this) that it means allow oncoming traffic. At least, I think that's what was said when I asked my German friend, but he has odd ways of phrasing things.

Eiretrains

CIE wrote: »

I was staying in the Dunmanway area last April, Co.Cork, and there is now an Irish style example of this sign in use at the narrow river bridge on the R587 road. It makes me wonder if many motorists understand it, as it does not appear in any Irish motor regulatory publications.

Terrontress

CIE wrote: »

Things can be confusing, though. Does this mean "don't yield to oncoming traffic on this one-lane road"?

The red circle simply gives a prohibitive or restrictive instruction. It is not to be taken literally.

If we start to adopt the European sign rules, will the yellow diamond be changed for the red triangle?

It would be a pity. There is a real charm to a lot of the yellow diamond signs. The right angle turns, the kids going to school. The 'caution, children playing on road' sign is a design classic!

**Timbuk2**

I think it's a good idea - it definitely stands out more than the old 'no straight ahead' arrow sign, especially as it's a striking red background, which isn't typical of Irish signs. I think the no entry signs can sometimes blend a bit too much in with other signs. You could approach a crossroad and see 'No Right Turn' as well as 'Turn Left' (e.g. turning onto a one way street) in addition to 'No Straight Ahead' (if the street opposite is one way), add this to other signs such as no parking which all have a similar colour scheme.

Especially if they are used efficiently, like in this photo, I doubt there'd be much confusion.

L1011

Eiretrains wrote: »

I was staying in the Dunmanway area last April, Co.Cork, and there is now an Irish style example of this sign in use at the narrow river bridge on the R587 road. It makes me wonder if many motorists understand it, as it does not appear in any Irish motor regulatory publications.

was it just the large arrow / small arrow one? Its on the theory test anyway.

CIE

Breezer wrote: »

What on earth does that sign mean and what country is it used in? To me it means 'Two way traffic' but I had to think about it and then guess.

It's from Germany, and it's supposed to mean "Yield to oncoming traffic on single-lane segment of road ahead", i.e. you're approaching a single lane part of the road and you have to yield to traffic going the other way.

Zoney

Actually reading the new Traffic Signs Manual, they are keeping the existing no entry sign (crossed out straight-ahead arrow) and using the standard no-entry sign where entry is prohibited in all conditions. I.e. the new sign will be "no entry at all at all" and the old one will be kept for e.g. "no entry except buses" or "no entry between 7 am and 11 pm" and so on.

Not entirely lacking in confusion and I'm sure others will have plenty to add in their own reading of the relevant section.

I haven't yet seen a standard no-entry sign installed on public roads here though.

The blue and white mandatory signs have been installed for years though (randomly alternated with our traditional ones), well before they had any legal basis here. I can only assume that started because of councils just buying UK signage.

Breezer

Zoney wrote: »

I haven't yet seen a standard no-entry sign installed on public roads here though.

They're at the end of Suffolk St in Dublin, noticed them the other day.

Breezer

Zoney wrote: »

I haven't yet seen a standard no-entry sign installed on public roads here though.

They're at the end of Suffolk St in Dublin, noticed them the other day.

Yep, have seen some on Thomas Street too. Also saw some on the Howth Road near Killester. I wasn't aware they were being changed but it clicked after I saw more than one.

L1011

Ballyfermot exit on the N4 has them up for all appropriate moves now.

Most of the new signs have be removed and replaced by the old ones! WTF
Left hand doesne't know what the right hand is doing! :rolleyes:

monument

dolanbaker wrote: »

Most of the new signs have be removed and replaced by the old ones! :

Who said that?

monument

monument wrote: »

Who said that?

I saw it today on the N4 between Heuston & the M50.