What will a university actually do for Waterford?

Amazotheamazing

On a few of the waterford threads I've browsed, the theme that Waterford urgently needs a university seems to be recurring. Why? What will having a university do that the IT can't? Will it really attract that much more people to Waterford? Will it add that much to the local economy?

To my mind, the only place in Ireland that hugely benefits from having a university is Galway, with roughly 1 in 6 people in the city being a student in NUIG, and it does have a big collegiate vibe going. I suppose UL makes it easy for certain industries to set up near Limerick, but surely that's not their sole reason for basing themselves there? Cork and Dublin both seem too large to note any particular benefit UCC, or UCD, DCU or Trinity give them.

So anyhow, in what way would a University of Waterford benefit Waterford more than Waterford Institute of Technology?

Bards

Amazotheamazing wrote:

On a few of the waterford threads I've browsed, the theme that Waterford urgently needs a university seems to be recurring. Why? What will having a university do that the IT can't? Will it really attract that much more people to Waterford? Will it add that much to the local economy?

To my mind, the only place in Ireland that hugely benefits from having a university is Galway, with roughly 1 in 6 people in the city being a student in NUIG, and it does have a big collegiate vibe going. I suppose UL makes it easy for certain industries to set up near Limerick, but surely that's not their sole reason for basing themselves there? Cork and Dublin both seem too large to note any particular benefit UCC, or UCD, DCU or Trinity give them.

So anyhow, in what way would a University of Waterford benefit Waterford more than Waterford Institute of Technology?

firstly Universities are independent. They can decide what courses to run and what not to run and don't have to get "Permission" from the Dept of Education unlike IT's.

Universities play an important role in R&D and attract knowledge based jobs that rely heavily on R&D. Once you have some of these companies located there it attracts other such companies and creates a crtical mass. People then begin to relocate to those cities that have Universities for it provides not only jobs but further education for their off spring.

How many Galway,Cork,Limerick Dublin students come to WIT to be educated as opposed to students of the S.E going to University Cities to be educated and never come back... This creates a brain drain from the S.E

how else does one explain why the S.E region the closest region to Europe fall well below the avg earnings for the country.

it is estimated that €50 Million will be added to the region according to a recent Goodbody report.

do a search on the web and have a read. It is pretty well documented at this stage.

Time Magazine

As opposed to why Waterford needs a university, why does Ireland need a new one? We have seven. That's about one per half a million people, with NUIM and UL in particular having huge potential to expand.

R&D should ideally be going to places that are well-established as opposed to new universities which will just not attract the same calibre of researchers because of international recognition.

Amazotheamazing

Would the university exist beside WIT, or would it replace WIT? Becuase surely, student numbers will remain relatively static if it is the latter?

I think you under-estimate the fact that there is a "brain-drain" throughout the country towards Dublin, certainly of my class in college in Galway, nearly all of us are now in Dublin, same with my secondary school class in Limerick, the majority are only able to find work in Dublin, due to successive Governments centralising too much development in Dublin.

Howandever, the R&D point is a valid one, but surely WIT is just as capable of doing that?

I'm not against a university in Waterford, but I think it's importance maybe overstated by some here.

mike65

Economics! More money for the City and surrounding areas, a boost in traffic congestion, in house prices, in drinks prices er....:eek:

Mike.

merlante

Ibid wrote:

As opposed to why Waterford needs a university, why does Ireland need a new one? We have seven. That's about one per half a million people, with NUIM and UL in particular having huge potential to expand.

R&D should ideally be going to places that are well-established as opposed to new universities which will just not attract the same calibre of researchers because of international recognition.

Well first off, the WIT is already at a scale where it can attract researchers and so on, and also has huge potential to expand. TSSG (tssg.org) is one of the biggest research groups in the country. It is being held back by its IT status, which restricts it in numerous ways.

As to why Ireland "needs" another university while we already have 7:
1. Having a university in every major city except for Waterford creates a spatial imbalance, where almost half a million people in the south east find themselves in a position where they must often fund their children's education outside of the region, and where the people of the region must often migrate for education and jobs. The rationale is that as well as this being 'unfair', a spatially unbalanced country is a disrupted, inefficient country. (Hence every first world country has a spatial strategy.)

2. A few thousand additional students every year would be created with the upgrade to a university. Looking at the participation in 3rd level education in Waterford and the SE compared with other cities/regions, it is clear that there are less students and less graduates in Waterford (this is well established). This is not only because of brain drain to other regions, but also because ITs can't offer the range of courses that universities can, and people often can't afford to travel.

3. Equal opportunity of study and work. This is the social equivalent of 1. The people of the south east surely have as much a right to access the same range of subjects to study, research posts and business/employment opportunities as other, similarly populated regions. The state has an obligation to provide this. It can clearly be seen that business expresses a bias towards university locations when setting up. Such a bias against Waterford given the existence of the WIT is often (usually) unfair, but it is there nonetheless.

4. Universities in the 21st century drive the national as well as local economy. The economy of Waterford and the South East is quite weak currently, and a university is required to change this, since every other region of any sort of population has a university and is achieving good economic performance. Numerous reports conclude that this is no coincidence, in highlighting how the lack of a university and other infrastructure is holding back the region. With 14% of the population living in the south east, this is bad news for the country.

Other points:
- There is no law as to how many universities is the ideal number to have. It is different for every country. With a population of 450,000 and with one university in the country for every 550,000 people, it is an anomaly that there is no university in the south east, whereas other regions such as the Midwest (330,000) and the West (430,000) are smaller and yet have universities. If we are merely consistent with what we have been doing and with what is there, then a university in Waterford is a logical and necessary development. (And no, there are no other cases anywhere else in the country similar to Waterford's case, and there probably never will be.)

- Plans to establish a world class university in Ireland will probably result in the amalgamation and/or close participation of existing universities, if it ever comes to pass. In this context Waterford can't participate without a university campus of its own. This is simply a waste.

- WIT is not far off a university as it is. It needs the shackles of the IT remit taken off it and only a moderate level of extra funding. For this funding the south east should easily rehabilitate itself back into a strong economic region from the being the poorest and weakest as it is now. In short, it would pay for itself.

- It is not good for Waterford and the south east to be in a position where it can only produce technical graduates. Graduates from all spheres are required for a healthy society. There is nothing to be gained nationally from a dysfunctional Waterford and south east, economically or socially.

merlante

I will just summarise the advantages of a university in Waterford since this has all being discussed before anyway.

From a Waterford point of view:
- We can study all the same courses that people can in the other regions. Currently WIT is not allowed to have Arts, Medicine, and so no. Courses must be technical.

- ITs must apply to HETAC to start a course. Universities have full independence. It took 3 years for a degree in architecture to get passed for WIT. The University of Limerick decided to do provide Architecture themselves later and beat WIT to the punch. This is not a level playing field.

- Greater variety and more options for students studying in Waterford.

- 'Fourth level' education is under serious threat in Waterford after various academics have called for this level of education to be provided only in universities.

- Universities bring the high tech jobs that ITs aren't able to draw. For better or for worse, Waterford is not getting the same quality companies that go to Cork, Galway and Limerick. Despite the existence of the TSSG group at WIT, and the research it has secured, companies like Cisco are going to Galway, without considering Waterford. (I can't blame them if you look at how differently Waterford and Galway, for example, are supported by recent governments.)

- Universities bring in a large number of peripheral jobs to support these high tech jobs. For every high tech firm that sets up, a large number of service industry, construction, and manufacturing/industrial jobs are created.

- Waterford people would not have to move away to anything like the same degree in order to secure education and employment. Money currently being spent sustaining students in other cities would instead by spent in Waterford.

- Braindrain: It's what happens when intelligent/creative people are tempted away to other locations, to enrich those locations socially and economically, at the expense of their own. It is happening in Waterford more than it is happening in any other city.

- Waterford's employment is dominated to a worrying degree by the manufacturing sector which is being eroded every day by lower cost locations. The university is an absolute must to increase Waterford's involvement in the 'safer' high tech sectors.

- Waterford would be a far more vibrant and up and coming place with an influx of students and an atmosphere of learning and success.

- The average earnings would rise, matching those of the other cities which we currently lag behind.

- The population would increase in line with the other cities and that provides benefits and spinoffs both economically and socially. Plus, personally I'd prefer Waterford to grow rather than decline!

- Waterford would see it's status and profile in Ireland restored. The lack of facilities and infrastructure that is taken for granted in other cities and regions of a similar size has seen Waterford struggle politically to assert itself and in turn to secure similar services to other cities. I will cite the recent moaning over a motorway to Waterford, while motorways to other cities of a similar size are considered automatic. (Throw in radiotherapy while you're at it.)

- Waterford's retail offering would surely increase in line with the other cities. At the moment, as we all know, it languishes far behind. As a result, we have to travel and spend money in those other cities on things that should be provided at home.

Personally, I think that a university in Waterford would allow us to solve all our remaining problems, at least in time. But if this isin't sorted we will probably fall further behind and ultimately become an irrelevancy.

Time Magazine

Okay lads, fair points about why a university should be placed in Waterford, but I specifically tried to avoid that question in my last post. Why does Ireland need one, as opposed to one being good for Waterford?

Presumably new buildings would have to be built and so on to turn WIT into WU, which costs the state money, why not just put that money into under-utilised (read under-funded) research centres in e.g. Trinity?

Any world-class university in this country will be one of Trinity or UCD, for several reasons, not least the ease of multi-research facilities incorporating DCU, NUIM and DIT if necessary.

Kids will still have to move and pay rent to attend Waterford University if you want to trot out the 450k+ figure; is it that much better for a kid from Wexford to live in Waterford as opposed to Drumcondra? If we're talking about social impacts, surely we should consider the better research and social gains that this money could achieve in existing universities? If the problem is the cost of rent, perhaps the capital costs could be re-directed to a decent grants system?

With high pertaining accession rates, tightening demographics and about a third of our jobs only needing primary education, is there a need to increase undergraduate places beyond the scope of what can be catered for already by the country?

Could spatial strategy/decentralisation not be achieved by placing jobs in Waterford, and moving Dubs et al there as opposed to keeping locals local? What's wrong with kids being taught in UCD and then going back home? Just like spatial strategies, that happens in every First World country. I struggle to think of any country that has more stay-at-home students than ourselves.

Now, before I get my heart ripped out via my throat, I'd tend to agree that any new university should be put in Waterford. But why should there be a new university, for Irish third-level education, and Ireland in general, as opposed to "it'd help the local economy" etc?

merlante

Ibid wrote:

Okay lads, fair points about why a university should be placed in Waterford, but I specifically tried to avoid that question in my last post. Why does Ireland need one, as opposed to one being good for Waterford?

I specifically answered your question in the first of my two posts. The first post gives the benefits to the state and I suppose the state's obligation. The second post was about how Waterford would gain from a university.

Ibid wrote:

Presumably new buildings would have to be built and so on to turn WIT into WU, which costs the state money, why not just put that money into under-utilised (read under-funded) research centres in e.g. Trinity?

Firstly, WIT is probably bigger now than DCU and Maynooth was ten years ago. But yes, a Waterford University should be as well developed as other universities are now. I don't think a tremendous amount of investment would be required. There are 10,000 full time students in WIT.

As to your general question, you're basically posing the classic decentralisation versus centralisation question, which can be paraphrased as, "why built two things when you can built one big thing for less cash?" The answer is that the state has a certain obligation to distribute services and infrastructure. Since that obligation has translated into universities is each of the other cities and large regions in Ireland, I don't at all see how doing the same in Waterford requires a special justification. I went into this in more depth in my previous post, so I won't go there again.

In any case, you'd could equally ask why we have any more than one university in the country, or why we don't all send our kids to London. But the way we've been doing things thus far, is putting in universities for populations of half a million. Why not tick the last box when there are so many benefits?

Ibid wrote:

Any world-class university in this country will be one of Trinity or UCD, for several reasons, not least the ease of multi-research facilities incorporating DCU, NUIM and DIT if necessary.

I think you are thinking small there. In just a few years Ireland will be connected by great roads, frequent rail services and so on. This will happen by 2010. By this time nowhere in Ireland (at least in terms of the gateways) will be far away from anywhere else. Instead of a small country, we will resemble a city state for the purposes of business and research.

You will be able to travel between UCD and WIT in less than 2 hours. Whereas
it will still take at least an hour to get from UCD to DCU. Plus Waterford will be close timewise to UCC and UL, for example.

In this context the National University of Ireland could be the world class university, which could comprise any university that didn't want to go it alone (as I suspect Trinity always will). The wider the scope of this futuristic NUI the better.

Ibid wrote:

Kids will still have to move and pay rent to attend Waterford University if you want to trot out the 450k+ figure; is it that much better for a kid from Wexford to live in Waterford as opposed to Drumcondra? If we're talking about social impacts, surely we should consider the better research and social gains that this money could achieve in existing universities? If the problem is the cost of rent, perhaps the capital costs could be re-directed to a decent grants system?

Again, with improving road access, such as the Waterford Outer Ring Road, Bypass, and M9 Motorway/Dual Carriageway, a large proportion of this 450,000 figure is in commuting range. As it is, it is common for people to commute from South Wexford, Kilkenny, South Tipp. and West Waterford. The M9 will open up things further, in particular for Kilkenny and Carlow. I think that, without having facts to hand, that 350,000 of the 450,000 would be in realistic commuting range. Bearing in mind that people are less likely to tolerate the lengthy commutes that those working in Dublin frequently do (e.g. Mullingar - Dublin).

You might also consider that Wexford or South Tipp. people for example might feel more comfortable about living in somewhere they know like Waterford, rather than a big city they don't know, like Dublin. There would therefore be a higher likelihood that people from these areas will go to university who otherwise would and are not. Once again, university attendence in the south east is way down on the rest of the country.

In any case, Waterford will always be more convenient than Dublin for people in the south east since it is closer and it's road/rail infrastructure will be top notch in the very near future. Dublin is likely to remain congested for the foreseeable future.

Ibid wrote:

With high pertaining accession rates, tightening demographics and about a third of our jobs only needing primary education, is there a need to increase undergraduate places beyond the scope of what can be catered for already by the country?

All I ever see are reports demanding more graduates and the need for a 'knowledge economy'. I also see that traditional industry, which dominates employment in Waterford, is dying fast. In Waterford we need to upskill more than anyone, and has been shown that the existence of the WIT and other universities 80-100 miles away, has thus far been insufficient.

Ibid wrote:

Could spatial strategy/decentralisation not be achieved by placing jobs in Waterford, and moving Dubs et al there as opposed to keeping locals local? What's wrong with kids being taught in UCD and then going back home? Just like spatial strategies, that happens in every First World country. I struggle to think of any country that has more stay-at-home students than ourselves.

You can't convince a high tech company to move to Waterford for love nor money because university locations are simply seen to be better locations with better government support. Whatever financial inducements that would have to be made would dwarf the costs of actually upgrading the WIT. Upgrading the WIT is actually the cheapest solution and most convenient solution to the problems Waterford and the south east faces.

As for kids studying in UCD and going back home: they often don't go back home. They are often by this time integrated into their adopted society, they find that the jobs they have trained to do are in the same location and so they stay. The phenomenon of brain drain is real.

I can tell you that many, many Waterford people leave Waterford for university and many don't come back. That is the reality. I'm trained in the area of electronic engineering and IT, and I will find it very difficult to find employment when I go back, despite the fact that the WIT delivers these courses. Business simple prefer university locations, and the government can't induce business to go to locations that the government itself has rendered inferior to other locations. They tried to send google to such a location, and they failed.

Ibid wrote:

Now, before I get my heart ripped out via my throat, I'd tend to agree that any new university should be put in Waterford. But why should there be a new university, for Irish third-level education, and Ireland in general, as opposed to "it'd help the local economy" etc?

It'll help the national economy. See my previous post.

Bards

If this Govt and the University sector insist on only having 7 Universities in this Republic of ours,and insist on the Decentralisation process than I vote to decentralise a University to Waterford:D

fricatus

Bards wrote:

If this Govt and the University sector insist on only having 7 Universities in this Republic of ours,and insist on the Decentralisation process than I vote to decentralise a University to Waterford:D

Maybe you're being facetious, maybe not, but if you think about it, the Greater Dublin Area with about 1.5m in the city and commuter belt, has four universities, whereas the rest of the country (i.e. the other 2.6m or so of us) contains three universities. Hardly conducive to balanced regional development.

If for nothing other than to address that imbalance, there should be a university in Waterford.

lilmissprincess

The Arts thing is whats really getting me. I'm a TY student, wanting to do Drama and English after school, but the nearest is Cork. I love teh WIT campus, its great, and my relatives all live within a mile of it, which would make it really handy.
WIT has a much higher student population than the other ITs, and basically all the facilitis, so why not?

merlante

lilmissprincess wrote:

The Arts thing is whats really getting me. I'm a TY student, wanting to do Drama and English after school, but the nearest is Cork. I love teh WIT campus, its great, and my relatives all live within a mile of it, which would make it really handy.
WIT has a much higher student population than the other ITs, and basically all the facilitis, so why not?

The government don't consider it an issue that Waterford people can't study Arts subjects unless they relocate 80-100 miles away.

I wouldn't mind, but it's not even one of the factors they are looking at when they examine the case for a university in Waterford. Obviously it's essential though. Arts courses are the cheapest to provide in most cases, they are the most cost effective to decentralise because equipment costs tend to be low, and are very popular these days. (Medicine is expensive to decentralise since extensive facilities have to built out.)

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to study History or English in Waterford? Doesn't sound like that much does it?

Daysha

Amazotheamazing wrote:

So anyhow, in what way would a University of Waterford benefit Waterford more than Waterford Institute of Technology?

Unfortunatley, if University status is achieved, it will not be called University of Waterford, or anything like that, it'll either be called USE (University of the South East) or SEU (South East University)

merlante

deise59 wrote:

Unfortunatley, if University status is achieved, it will not be called University of Waterford, or anything like that, it'll either be called USE (University of the South East) or SEU (South East University)

There'll be plenty of time to fight over the name after the university is secured!

Bards

merlante wrote:

There'll be plenty of time to fight over the name after the university is secured!

exactly.. as long as we are given the same level of funding, and equal status as the other seven Universities, who cares what it's called as long as it has University in it's title

AdMMM

Why does Ireland need another university? A country cannot survive without balanced regional development. Sure, we could keep sending our children up the country to universities in Dublin, boosting its economy (remember, very few university graudates find employment in their "home county") but sooner or later, something would have to be done about the inbalance between the economy of the Pale and that of the rest of Ireland. So instead of pumping large amounts of money into developing other regions in 10 or 15 years time, the measures should be taken now to ensure economic prosperity in areas other than just Dublin.

merlante

|.Murderer.| wrote:

Why does Ireland need another university? A country cannot survive without balanced regional development. Sure, we could keep sending our children up the country to universities in Dublin, boosting its economy (remember, very few university graudates find employment in their "home county") but sooner or later, something would have to be done about the inbalance between the economy of the Pale and that of the rest of Ireland. So instead of pumping large amounts of money into developing other regions in 10 or 15 years time, the measures should be taken now to ensure economic prosperity in areas other than just Dublin.

Umm.. It's not just Dublin that is doing well. Much of the West within the pull of Galway is doing very well, as the mid-west around Limerick, and the south centred on Cork. It's basically only us and the border region and counties like Roscommon and Mayo that are doing poorly.

The thing is, it's ridiculous that the south east is doing so badly when we have Waterford, which has traditionally supported a lot of industry, a number of significant, large towns (one in each county), large passenger and freight ports, good land, and so on. The south east just needs to be thrown a bone for it to get back to where it was. A little bit of investment would really go a long way in the south east. We're getting it now, finally, with regard to infrastructure, but we need a university to sort out education and business, and for the benefits it gives to society in general.

road_high

To any rational observer looking at the economic development of the south east in the last 30 years and more particulrly the last 10 years it is clear that we have fallen far behind the rest of the country. The reason for this obvious; no university= a significant brain drain from the region= no incentive for investors to set up here= we fall behind all the other regions that have a university. We were traditionally far more reliant on traditional manufacturing and agriculture, now areas of decline, and this has hit the s east badly.
Economic advancement in this country recently has been based on information and education. Foreign companies setting up here want to access to highly skilled graduates preferably from a university. While WIT is excellent, the name 'university' holds much more sway or influence with investors looking at the region. This is even more so the case in R+D as we move towards a knowledge based economy.

So if the s east doesn't get the university we need to prosper we will continue to be outperformed by so-called 'poorer' regions like the West. I know so many graduates from the region that are forced to work in other regions because they can't get suitable work to match their qualifications in the south east. I find this particularly sad.
I think the people of Waterford in particular must make this a key issue for election '07. There is great momentum in the campaign now for WIT to be made a university and I hope the compelling case continues to be made until we finally get what we absolutely need..

merlante

The university has been the biggest issue in Waterford for years, whether people have realised it or not. And now that radiotherapy is partially sorted, and looks like it will be fully sorted; that the second river crossing, bypass, motorway, airport improvements are on stream; the university issue is glaring.

It is absolutely make or break for Waterford. I can't imagine anything else that will make more of an impact on people's lives, be they students, professionals, brick layers, immigrants, carpenters, tour guides, or whatever.

Daysha

Bards wrote:

exactly.. as long as we are given the same level of funding, and equal status as the other seven Universities, who cares what it's called as long as it has University in it's title

Yes, I know that the most important thing is University status, but would anyone else not be a bit annoyed if it would officially be a South East University rather than a Waterford University? If people have been trying to get Waterford on the map and achieve equal status with the 4 other cities, don't we deserve the Waterford name in the University title? We're a city just like any of other 4, and we're also in a region just like the other 4, so why not?

merlante

deise59 wrote:

Yes, I know that the most important thing is University status, but would anyone else not be a bit annoyed if it would officially be a South East University rather than a Waterford University? If people have been trying to get Waterford on the map and achieve equal status with the 4 other cities, don't we deserve the Waterford name in the University title? We're a city just like any of other 4, and we're also in a region just like the other 4, so why not?

Personally I think it would be terrible, but it really is the least of our problems, and we need the co-operation of the whole region to get this. If we can stay united until we get it, we can fight like animals about the name afterwards.

The years of neglect have left us in a weakened position. The lack of government support for the airport, when every other airport in the country got some sort of government support, meant that we had to go cap in hand to the other counties of the south east to keep it going. Finally it took Cullen to secure proper investment for airport and now it's profitable again -- but not before we were compelled by our neighbours to change the name from 'Waterford Airport' to 'South East Regional Airport' in return for their support. We're lucky that Waterford hasn't already been renamed to 'South East Regional City'!

mad man

merlante wrote:

Personally I think it would be terrible, but it really is the least of our problems, and we need the co-operation of the whole region to get this. If we can stay united until we get it, we can fight like animals about the name afterwards.

The years of neglect have left us in a weakened position. The lack of government support for the airport, when every other airport in the country got some sort of government support, meant that we had to go cap in hand to the other counties of the south east to keep it going. Finally it took Cullen to secure proper investment for airport and now it's profitable again -- but not before we were compelled by our neighbours to change the name from 'Waterford Airport' to 'South East Regional Airport' in return for their support. We're lucky that Waterford hasn't already been renamed to 'South East Regional City'!

Don't be surprised if this is what it took to settle the boundary issue.Phil Hogan already as much as suggested it by proposing giving Ferrybank UDC status.My solution would be renaming the ward(s) within a boundary extension South Kilkenny Wards.

Freddie59

Coming in at the tail end here, but with all the figures quoted, what about the most important one: two Unis within 60 miles of each other - then another 80 miles away in Cork; or three within the 140 miles from Cork to Galway?

Yet the South East is adjudged not to be able to support ONE?!

Well done FF (and this is coming from someone who normally votes FF):

1. Radiotherapy - not delivered.

2. University - not delivered.

3. Road to Dublin - not delivered.

4. Airport runway extension - not delivered.

Really great achievement. So all the while the Parish Pump politicians like Willie O'Dea get their way we seem to be incapable or getting anything.:mad:

Freddie59

deise59 wrote:

Yes, I know that the most important thing is University status, but would anyone else not be a bit annoyed if it would officially be a South East University rather than a Waterford University? If people have been trying to get Waterford on the map and achieve equal status with the 4 other cities, don't we deserve the Waterford name in the University title? We're a city just like any of other 4, and we're also in a region just like the other 4, so why not?

I would most certainly be. UCC, UCG, LU, DU, AND SEU??!!

I recently contacted two high-profile websites who listed all the Irish cities to the exclusion of Waterford. In fairness we were then included. It might seem trivial, but we have to knock on EVERY door for recognition. They've been doing it in the West for years.........look where they are now.

fricatus

Freddie59 wrote:

3. Road to Dublin - not delivered.

4. Airport runway extension - not delivered.

The road to Dublin is under construction. The Carlow bypass is already well under way, the Waterford-Knocktopher section is starting in March, and the other bits are at an advanced stage of planning. See the NRA website under "Road Scheme Activity".

As for the airport, there was something in the local papers just lately about approval for funding.

road_high

fricatus wrote:

The road to Dublin is under construction. The Carlow bypass is already well under way, the Waterford-Knocktopher section is starting in March, and the other bits are at an advanced stage of planning. See the NRA website under "Road Scheme Activity".

As for the airport, there was something in the local papers just lately about approval for funding.

Monday 22nd January is D-day for starting N9 Waterford-Kilmacow according to the local paper in KK;) .
In favour to Cullen we could have been looking at a much later start date on this project had he not been Transport Minister, so whatever people say about him at least he has pushed through this vital infrastructure for the s east region when others were knocking it.

Bards

mfitzy wrote:

Monday 22nd January is D-day for starting N9 Waterford-Kilmacow according to the local paper in KK;) .
In favour to Cullen we could have been looking at a much later start date on this project had he not been Transport Minister, so whatever people say about him at least he has pushed through this vital infrastructure for the s east region when others were knocking it.

Is there a link available?

road_high

Bards wrote:

Is there a link available?

It's not on the KK people website unfortunately, only in the hard copy it seems, page 6. Not much new info just the date for this section to begin properly. Didn't say whethter the official sod-turning is that day either, I presume it is....

fricatus

mfitzy wrote:

Monday 22nd January is D-day for starting N9 Waterford-Kilmacow according to the local paper in KK;)

Happy daze! But I presume you mean Waterford-Knocktopher

road_high

fricatus wrote:

Happy daze! But I presume you mean Waterford-Knocktopher

Yea sorry meant Knocktopher alright!

Bards

Back on Topic - Article from This week's Munster Express
===========================================
O'Donoghue goes national to press for SE university

Waterford Institute of Technology chairman Redmond O'Donoghue has delivered a strong New Year's message to the Government, seeking university designation for the Institute as a “weapon of competitiveness” for the region.

Writing in the Irish Times this week, O'Donoghue - former CEO of Waterford Wedgwood - claimed: “To deny to the southeast the engine of future competitiveness - so called fourth-level education which heavily promotes research and innovation - would be unfair and unjust.

“In recent weeks, several questions have been asked in the Oireachtas about Waterford Institute of Technology's submission to be designated as a university,” the Institute chairman continued.

“Furthermore, the Minister for Education and Science, Mary Hanafin TD, announced the appointment of independent expert Dr Jim Port to conduct an assessment of WIT's submission and provide advice on its merits to the Government.

“The intention is that this process will inform the Government's thinking and will start a process which, I expect, will culminate in the completion of the requirements under section 9 of the Universities Act 1997. Because of these developments, it is timely to outline the key issues surrounding WIT's submission.

“The arguments for a university in and of the southeast are compelling. They revolve around economic, academic, social, competitiveness and national policy issues.

“Economically, the southeast has underperformed in recent times. There is little chance of this changing in the foreseeable future unless there is a paradigm shift in higher education in the region. The current higher education structure attracts far too little investment in research activities - education's all-important fourth level.

“Only 19.7 per cent of the workforce in the southeast has a third-level qualification compared with 26 per cent nationally, while per cent of full-time third-level students from within the region leave to study elsewhere. Graduates cannot find appropriate high-level jobs in the region to bring them back,” the article continued.


Brain drain

Mr O'Donoghue added: “The degree to which this brain drain is already happening can be seen from figures which compare the region in which graduates are employed in their region of origin.

“In the east, 90.5 per cent of graduates are in jobs in their own region, in the west the figure is 74 per cent, while in the southeast the number is only 55.8 per cent. That Waterford is the only gateway city without a university unquestionably contributes to this malaise.

“Everyone knows a university is a major driver of economic activity in its region. We repeatedly hear from local industrialists of investment, research, innovation and employment opportunities which can be realised. This was made clear at a recent series of meetings across the region organised by IBEC, the southeast Chambers of Commerce and the Irish-American Chamber of Commerce. At five meetings there was a collective outcry for a university, which would be good for the region and for Ireland.


“Ireland's development strategy is that of a knowledge-based economy. Furthermore, the National Spatial Strategy calls for regional development. Because it crosses provincial borders, the southeast is arguably a less natural region than, say, the west or the southwest.

“However, if we are serious about the National Spatial Strategy, the creation of a region has to be about more than drawing a line on a map. There is a need to create a regional identity and regional institutions.

“What better way to start this process than by creating the best regional institution of all - the University of the Southeast?” Mr O'Donoghue asked.

“The model envisaged in the WIT submission operates successfully all over the world. The proposed university would have its headquarters in Waterford but would have vital hubs in Wexford, Kilkenny and other parts of the region.

“We need also to look at branding and competitiveness. The university “brand” matters and, without competitiveness, no business, no product, no region can prosper. The engine of competitiveness is going to be fourth-level education - research and innovation - and this is the unique proposition of the university sector. To deny this weapon of competitiveness to the southeast would, my judgment, be unfair, unjust and unacceptable.

“Our Carriganore campus, a 150-acre greenfield site just a mile from our Cork Road campus, is sandwiched between Waterford's new ring road the River Suir. It is the ideal site for research and innovation: in fact, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern recently opened the ArcLab operation there - our first major entry into research and innovation.”

merlante

Sounds positive.

I can just imagine all the Irish Times readers reaching for their maps and almanacs trying to figure out where Waterford is.

The name, "University of the South East", is a sickener though, but I suppose beggars can't be choosers.

I think it is interesting that the various people involved with the university submission are very keen to 'depoliticise' the whole process. They must be reasonably confident that all these reports and committees will find for Waterford.

Bards

merlante wrote:

Sounds positive.

I can just imagine all the Irish Times readers reaching for their maps and almanacs trying to figure out where Waterford is.

The name, "University of the South East", is a sickener though, but I suppose beggars can't be choosers.

I think it is interesting that the various people involved with the university submission are very keen to 'depoliticise' the whole process. They must be reasonably confident that all these reports and committees will find for Waterford.

The new NDP will support the NSS and regional development... If we take it that Dublin has 4 Universities for say 1,000,000 population which works out at around one Universioty per 250,000.

The South East Region has a population of 450,000 and no University so we are over due one based on the NSS which Dr. Port must take into account when making his recomendation

rogue-entity

Waterford IT badly needs University status. It needs the funding and it needs the freedom that other Us have. The other thing is that most businesses will have a preference for a University degree over an IT degree, even if the IT graduate is better thought. WIT has the best computing courses outside Dublin, but chances are, someone who goes to UCC will be more likly to get a job then a WIT graduate.

We also need more places to teach medicine, I would love to be a Doctor, but I could never get the points, yet I would have the subjects. Why are the points inthe 590 range if not because of limited places.

AdMMM

I was just thinking about over the past few days and I think that while a university is needed, if WIT were to be granted University status then Waterford would need further PLC facilities. Many people are enrolled in WITs Level 6 and Level 7 courses which presumably would be phased out shortly afterwards and replaced with comparable Level 8 courses. There would be considerably more demand for the Level 8 courses which would push the points up and possibly out of reach of many students. Potentially this could hinder Waterford as we currently only have the one facility offering PLC courses in the city!

lilmissprincess

Is there not the Tech? I thought they did the PLC courses, just like they do in Wexford...

merlante

I would have thought the tech, now Waterford College of Further Education, would do them as well.

Anyway, those courses will go somewhere, I wouldn't worry about that.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

Prob put an extension on Bob tweedys House i reckon

AdMMM

That's what I mean. Waterford only has one location where people can do PLC courses and judging by the amount of prefabs they have on their grounds, they're already struggling to meet demand!

Bards

If it's good enough for Wexford it Certaintly will help Waterford

from today's Irish Examiner
====================

January 2007

University key to revamping region, says PD candidate

A UNIVERSITY for the south east is a key component to the revitalisation of the region, a Dáil hopeful said yesterday.


PDs general election candidate Colm O’Gorman said he believed the upgrading of Waterford Institute of Technology was vital for his constituency of Wexford.

He pledged to work towards the establishment of a university in the south east.

“I am working to ensure the PDs election manifesto includes a proposal for a university for the region by upgrading Waterford Institute of Technology with sister campuses in Wexford, Kilkenny and Carlow.





“It is time that those living in our county were able to work and study in Wexford, rather than being forced to leave for a job or university place elsewhere. Wexford and its people deserve no less.”

Speaking today as his party’s deputy leader Liz O’Donnell launched a constituency-wide billboard campaign in Wexford Town, the PD Dáil candidate said he believed the upgrading of the Waterford Institute of Technology to the University of the South East was a vital component to the revitalisation of County Wexford.

He claimed: “Co Wexford has one of the lowest levels of uptake of third level education in Ireland. I believe that the absence of a university in the region is a significant impediment to the economic and social development of Wexford. I would be very hopeful that our party manifesto could include my university plan. I pledge to pursue it vigorously.

“Apart from the immediate benefit of allowing our young people to study close to home, it is also clear that this development would also attract investment and generate jobs. I believe that it would, in time, enable the south east to act as a counterbalance to the ever-expanding greater Dublin region.

“It is time that politics began to focus on the difficulties our county faces. It is time that action replaced promises and ideas replaced complacency. Wexford has been let down by politics over the past 30 years. The county has fallen behind other regions which benefited from stronger representation.”

Wexford has one of the lowest levels of disposal incomes in the country as well as one of the lowest levels of job creation through direct inward investment.

“Politics in Wexford must change,” he declared.

road_high

He could have replaced the name Wexford with any of the other s eastern counties too. A university at WIT is essential now for the regions future prosperity, nothing less will do now in my opinion. We need to be able retan graduates in the region here, unlike at present where onlt about 50% are staying and attaining employment here.

Without a university I worry about the future for this region.

Bards

and his last line - "politics in Wexford must change". you could replace wexford therre with any other county in the S.E too

the S.E must unite as a region and stop all the political infighting. This is the first time I have heard a politican from another county in the S.E get behind Waterford

road_high

Bards wrote:

and his last line - "politics in Wexford must change". you could replace wexford therre with any other county in the S.E too

the S.E must unite as a region and stop all the political infighting. This is the first time I have heard a politican from another county in the S.E get behind Waterford

Not quite the first one!;) Have a read of this;
http://www.johnpaulphelan.com/read_press.php?PressID=101

I agree there is absolutely no point in politicians here in KK going on about getting a uni to KK; that is fantasy stuff. Our best hope is Waterford and perhaps years down the road (a big) maybe a faculty of Design or such like here in Kilkenny. For the moment WIT is the only game in town....

Bards

Interesting Read... if only Fine Gael would make it as part of their election Manifesto might speed up the process