For people who like REAL HIP HOP

soloparadox

Colin Mac wrote:

Thug Life as defined by Tupac meant somebody who has got nothing, that's what Thug meant to Tupac, he said that himself. Your argument is stupid though, ask yourself why is that as soon as Tupac was mentioned as being a good rapper, you jump in to argue on how he wasn't a ganster? Have you not noticed that virtually every rapper in this thread claims to be a ganster?
Or are they all worthy of it, unlike Tupac.

No you said that he never made himself out to be something that he wasn't, like i pointed out he did. I have never heard tupac give this definition of thug and even if he did he is in no position to define the word. Bottom line, he called himself a thug, he was not, therefor he made himself out to be something that he was not.

soloparadox

Orizio wrote:

I know thats not what you said.I'm not infering anything, I just don't see the merit of any discussion about Tupac's credentials.Don't you ever get sick of such discussions popping up in Hip-Hop?

Kind of, but not as sick of as i am of people with delusions of grandeur regarding tupac.......

ghostdancer

soloparadox wrote:

I have never heard tupac give this definition of thug and even if he did he is in no position to define the word. Bottom line, he called himself a thug, he was not, therefor he made himself out to be something that he was not.

and what qualifies someone as a "thug" in your eyes?
selling drugs? going to jail? shooting 2 police officers? beating up a gang member?

they all seem pretty Thug-ish to me....


although that's not really relevant as that isn't in anyway as what he defined a thug or ThugLife as.
perhaps you should read up on tupac's definition of "thug life" as you don't really seem to have a clue.

As detailed in the film Tupac: Resurrection the concept of "Thug Life" was viewed by Shakur as a philosophy for life. Shakur developed the word into an acronym standing for "The Hate U Gave Little Infants ****s Everybody." He declared that the dictionary definition of a "thug" as being a rogue or criminal was not how he used the term, but rather he meant someone who came from oppressive or squalid background and little opportunity but still made a life for themselves and were proud.

"I didn't create Thug Life, I diagnosed it." - Tupac Shakur.

Thug Life became a calling card for how Shakur viewed his influence on society. He had people from all walks of life -- criminals in jail, white kids in the suburbs, poor black kids in the ghetto -- wanting to know how they could be a part of his movement. Shakur admitted this sudden power he had over people frightened him. But he used the idea of Thug Life to transform the desires of these people into something he viewed as positive, a way to reach out to the poor, the disenfranchised, and the oppressed. Gang members instituted what was called the Thug Life Code of Ethics, and gangs from New York to Chicago to Los Angeles claimed to abide by it. Examples of the rules in this Code of Ethics were that civilians were not to be targets in gang warfare, and that children in schools should not be indoctrinated by gang propaganda.

Shakur's philosophy of Thug Life was met with harsh criticism from most of the leaders in government and politics, including many notables in the black community.

ghostdancer

soloparadox wrote:

Tupac was never the compton blood that he portrayed himself as during his death row days, he was a Harlem kid who went to arts schools through his teens. I'm not saying that the guy didn't suffer poverty or hard times but he was never the gangbanging thug that Sug made him out to be.

i'd love if you could provide a source for where Tupac claimed he was a member of a Blood gang from Compton.
thanks.

also, while you're at it, if you could provide a few examples of where Suge details Tupac's gangbanging activities, it would be appreciated.

Colin Mac

spacecoyote wrote:

which of the artists mentioned thus far, of which theres only been about 10, have gang affiliations?

Ja Rule and DMX have claimed to be thug.... point is, hip hop is full of it.

soloparadox wrote:

No you said that he never made himself out to be something that he wasn't, like i pointed out he did. I have never heard tupac give this definition of thug and even if he did he is in no position to define the word. Bottom line, he called himself a thug, he was not, therefor he made himself out to be something that he was not.

If you plan on convincing anyone that they should accept that Tupac wasn't a thug and for this to reach a logical conclusion, you're to going to have to do more than just simply say so. You still haven't made an argument, other than Tupac studied arts (which of course is meaningless to whether he was or not) and that he helped a blood beat up a crip..... which really only contradicted your reasons for having the opinion you do have on this matter .

fatjose101

streetryder wrote:

yeh im wit ya. im into more of de true rappers, not 50 cent and de game there nothin. im into DMX, LL COOL J, JA RULE, METHOD MAN, RED MAN, TUPAC. theses are true rappers, came from de ghetto and still from de ghetto

JA RULE AND LL COLL J AIN'T FROM "THE GHETTO".
SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LISTEN TO HIP HOP, LISTEN TO ATCQ,COMMON,
BIGGIE,NAS,PUBLIC ENEMY,NWA, ECT..................

NOT JA RULE ......

astraboy

Public Enemy and Dead Prez both very good. I like a lot of stuff that woud be considered old skool.

phenomenon

If you are looking for "real" hip hop (as the thread title says) then check out Immortal Technique - Revolution Vol 1 & 2. You won't find these lying in your local HMV though as he is still technically underground. I bought them from the internet and I have to say he's pretty good. The albums can sound a bit "samey" in the middle but the original topics he covers, along with a superb flow, make it a worthwhile purchase.

Also check out Dead Prez as mentioned above. Personlly I've become a fan.

ghostdancer

Immortal Technique is most certainly not underground.
and you'll easily find them in HMV's around dublin city.

i'd imagine most people on here have heard/own Immortal Technique and Dead Prez......bar the recent lot of Fat Joe/DMX/LL Cool J fans that seem to have cropped up...

Orizio

ghostdancer wrote:

Immortal Technique is most certainly not underground.
and you'll easily find them in HMV's around dublin city.

i'd imagine most people on here have heard/own Immortal Technique and Dead Prez......bar the recent lot of Fat Joe/DMX/LL Cool J fans that seem to have cropped up...

Yeah IT is one of the better known underground artists, and his stuff is easy to get even down south.

The Coup are the **** when it comes to political Hip-Hop - Dead Prez and IT don't even compare.

Kold

I asked PLUGD to order me in the 2 Revolutionary albums n they never called me Although I don't have much cash at the mo so I won't remind 'em..

Native Tongue

For those who want to hear some good hip-hop, I recommend the following albums (some of them are new enough, others older)...this is far from an exhaustive list, so don't bite my head off if I haven't mentioned certain albums.

A.G. - Get Dirty Radio
Afu-Ra - State Of The Arts
AZ - The Format
Black Sheep - 8WM/Novokane
Boogie Down Productions - Criminal Minded
CL Smooth - American Me
Consequence - A Tribe Called Quence Mixtape
Defari - Street Music
Devin The Dude - To Tha X-treme
Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full
Gang Starr - Moment Of Truth
Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
Hi-Tek - Hi-Teknology 2: The Chip
J Dilla - The Shining
KRS-One - Return Of The Boom Bap
Main Source - Breaking Atoms
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
Mos Def - Black On Both Sides
Pete Rock & CL Smooth - Mecca & The Soul Brother (my favourite of all time)
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Rasco - Time Waits For No Man
The Roots - The Tipping Point
Sadat X - Black October
Scarface - Greatest Hits
Showbiz & A.G. - Runaway Slave
Skyzoo & 9th Wonder - Cloud 9: The 3 Day High

JATOH

50 Cent Is The Best Rapper Living
2pac Is The Best Rapper Ever

spacecoyote

Picked up the latest Doctor Octagon - The Return Of... at the weekend, and i'm really lovin it after the 1st listen. May be being a little hasty, but i'm gonna throw it out there....Better than the original!!!

Makaveli

That's not an official album and for the most part it's muck. Farmed out beats that have been mastered by producers Kool Keith never met. He never wanted these songs released and a lot of it is not new material. It's not really Dr. Octagon anyway because Dan The Automator isn't on the album at all.

Project Polaroid and Nogatco Rd. were official Kool Keith releases from 2006 and are far better than The Return of, which doesn't even come close to Dr. Ocatgynecoligist imo.

spacecoyote

was wondering about that, i didn't see the automators name mentioned anywhere alright. Theres definitely some filler on there alright, but i'm likin some of the tracks.

Didn't realise twas an unofficial album

Makaveli

Well it's official in the sense that it's a proper retail, it just never got the blessing of Kool Keith. It was all a bit underhanded.

RBY5

Native Tongue wrote:

For those who want to hear some good hip-hop, I recommend the following albums (some of them are new enough, others older)...this is far from an exhaustive list, so don't bite my head off if I haven't mentioned certain albums.

A.G. - Get Dirty Radio
Afu-Ra - State Of The Arts
AZ - The Format
Black Sheep - 8WM/Novokane
Boogie Down Productions - Criminal Minded
CL Smooth - American Me
Consequence - A Tribe Called Quence Mixtape
Defari - Street Music
Devin The Dude - To Tha X-treme
Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full
Gang Starr - Moment Of Truth
Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
Hi-Tek - Hi-Teknology 2: The Chip
J Dilla - The Shining
KRS-One - Return Of The Boom Bap
Main Source - Breaking Atoms
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
Mos Def - Black On Both Sides
Pete Rock & CL Smooth - Mecca & The Soul Brother (my favourite of all time)
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Rasco - Time Waits For No Man
The Roots - The Tipping Point
Sadat X - Black October
Scarface - Greatest Hits
Showbiz & A.G. - Runaway Slave
Skyzoo & 9th Wonder - Cloud 9: The 3 Day High

Good Call.
May I also suggest:
Black Moon - Enta da Stage
Smif n Wessun - Dah Shinning
MASTA ACE - Slaughtahouse
Jeru tha Damaga - the sun rises in the east
Channel Live - Station Identification

rcaz

I'm pretty new to hip-hop, but I'm agreeing with the stuff that's been mentioned.

I first got into it with N.W.A., bit gimmicky?
I'm really liking De La Soul and Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, and a bit of The Roots.

I heard All That I Got is You by Ghostface Killah the other day, absolutely loved it, I was wondering if much of his stuff is along those lines? String samples and choirs and the like.

Cheers.

Orizio

El Pr0n wrote:

I'm pretty new to hip-hop, but I'm agreeing with the stuff that's been mentioned.

I first got into it with N.W.A., bit gimmicky?
I'm really liking De La Soul and Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, and a bit of The Roots.

I heard All That I Got is You by Ghostface Killah the other day, absolutely loved it, I was wondering if much of his stuff is along those lines? String samples and choirs and the like.

Cheers.

No basically.Although Supreme Clientele is an excellent album.If you haven't gotten Game Theory, Things Fall Apart and DYWM??!??? then I suggest you do.I'm sure you'll like A Tribe Called Quest's first three albums as well,same kinda sound as De La Soul.Oh and Souls Of Mischief's classic debut, which had Del on it.

AllMusicGuide is an excellent place to look for good Hip-Hop reviews.

Evzer

'All that i got is you' is probably one of the best tunes ever... As for REAL hiphop whatever that might be.. Im bumpin Mo' Mega by mr lif. at the moment, thought it was crap first but its a grower some really good songs on there.

rcaz

Yeah, I've heard nothing but good things about A Tribe Called Quest, I'm giong to check them out. Nice one, Orizio.

Evzer

'All that i got is you' is probably one of the best tunes ever... As for REAL hiphop whatever that might be.. Im bumpin Mo' Mega by mr lif. at the moment, thought it was crap first but its a grower some really good songs on there. And to say immortal technique isnt underground just because his album is in hmv is fairly ridiculous statement whats your definition of underground? HMV has all the dr octagon albums aswell and acts lilke non-phixion and cage i would not call these boyz mainstream by any stretch of the imagination... When was the last time you ever heard mention of him on mtv..seen one of his videos anywhere besides the internet..he's probably bigger in europe then he is in america which is the case with a lot of underground us rappers

Orizio

Evzer wrote:

'All that i got is you' is probably one of the best tunes ever... As for REAL hiphop whatever that might be.. Im bumpin Mo' Mega by mr lif. at the moment, thought it was crap first but its a grower some really good songs on there. And to say immortal technique isnt underground just because his album is in hmv is fairly ridiculous statement whats your definition of underground? HMV has all the dr octagon albums aswell and acts lilke non-phixion and cage i would not call these boyz mainstream by any stretch of the imagination... When was the last time you ever heard mention of him on mtv..seen one of his videos anywhere besides the internet..he's probably bigger in europe then he is in america which is the case with a lot of underground us rappers

I'd be interested to see what your basing this on.

spacecoyote

When did anyone say IT wasn't underground, it was said that he was one of the better known underground artists, but i don't think anyone called him commercial anywhere?

As Oriz said I would probably stop short of buying Tribe albums after the first 3. The remaining couple have some nice tracks, but they don't hold up under the weight of their earlier material. So go with Peoples instinctive travels & the Paths of Rhythm, The low End Theory & Midnight Marauders!

I would also suggest that if you like De La that you check out Ugly Duckling, similar Old School sound with a nice tongue-in-cheek humour.

If you like Del I would also check out Hieroglyphics, who he was a member of, as well as Opio, another member of said group

Makaveli

Opio is a member of Souls of Mischief and Souls of Mischief are part of Hieroglyphics.

If you're going to check out Bay area Hip-Hop from the mid-nineties then you can't go wrong with The Pharcyde (Bizarre Ryde II and Labcabincalifornia). Also Latryx and Blackalicious.

spacecoyote

god them mods are pedantic b*stards

Makaveli

You know it! Would you want it any other way?

spacecoyote

Makaveli wrote:

You know it! Would you want it any other way?

hmmmmmm

//strokes beard pensively

Evzer

ghostdancer wrote:

Immortal Technique is most certainly not underground.
and you'll easily find them in HMV's around dublin city.

wha?