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To ZV or not to ZV?

  • 03-01-2007 6:40pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    I have to re-reg a couple of classics but dont want to use the ugly euro plates (who does). I'd prefer to have the year on the plate rather than a ZV*******. Am i correct in thinking i dont have a choice in the matter and that ZVs are the only type of plate exempt from the euro plate? I have a mate who has been stopped several times because his euro plates are written in italics so I dont want to give them any excuse to pull me over,not that they need one now. He's also been accused of impersonating a police vehicle on several occasions because the tv antenna on top of his BIG RED BUS lights up blue. Good thing we live in a virtually crime free country leaving our cops time to dedicate to such important matters!


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 TomMc


    Go with the ZV option ... looks much better than the newer year type euro plates (looks hideous, there is a cringe factor as far as I am concerned with these on a classic car). Originality is everything so you will have to miss out here - but at least ZV looks a little more in keeping with a classic motor.

    IMO, Reg plates should be in keeping with the period in which they were placed - otherwise they look a bit naff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭ andyj22


    TomMc wrote:
    Go with the ZV option ... looks much better than the newer year type euro plates (looks hideous, there is a cringe factor as far as I am concerned with these on a classic car). Originality is everything so you will have to miss out here - but at least ZV looks a little more in keeping with a classic motor.

    IMO, Reg plates should be in keeping with the period in which they were placed - otherwise they look a bit naff.

    IAgree

    Take alook at my ZV

    ADz:cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    I personally don't like the ZV numbers now they have gone into 5 figures.

    I can't for the life of me understand why they dont issue "proper" old numbers and charge for them....I certainly would pay well for numbers in the relevant years number series for Cork....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭ dubtom


    You do have a choice of either zv or the normall 77 d etc.Using ZV your choice of design is unlimited although plane on red or black as original plates seems to be sought after with boardies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭ Owen


    TomMc wrote:
    Go with the ZV option ... looks much better than the newer year type euro plates

    There is nothing stopping you geting a black numberplate with stamped grey letters for a 77 reg car for example. They don't have to be Euro plates ... aren't cars before 87 allowed to do whatever the hell they want? I still see old fiestas driving around with red&black plates.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    corktina wrote:
    I personally don't like the ZV numbers now they have gone into 5 figures.

    I can't for the life of me understand why they dont issue "proper" old numbers and charge for them....I certainly would pay well for numbers in the relevant years number series for Cork....


    I totally agree, 5 digits just looks wrong but the euro plates are just plain ugly. Nothin worse than havin an original Irish reg rust heap waitin to die and an non Irish minter wearin ugly plates and not being able to do anything. Its not like a govt to pass up on a chance to make a few quid extra. I'd be happy though with having the year on my plate if I could still use the old wide lettered black and silver plates, I think it adds to the attraction in some ways. When you're drivin down the street, people know its old, but when they see how old exactly, it gets a better reaction I think. I've seen school kids checkin out the car but do a double take when they see the year on the reg. Its also educational for them too!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    ned78 wrote:
    There is nothing stopping you geting a black numberplate with stamped grey letters for a 77 reg car for example. They don't have to be Euro plates ... aren't cars before 87 allowed to do whatever the hell they want? I still see old fiestas driving around with red&black plates.

    As I understand it, once you choose a "regular" reg with the year and not a ZV, then you've got to go euro. I'd say the only reason the older stuff are still sporting older non euro plates are because they're on them from new. You could take the chance and go for old style plate but with the year on it and argue that its a classic and its exempt, but if you got stopped by an A**hole, you might clock up a few points,especially now that an '87 had to wear euro plates last year, but this year its a classic, so tec. it could be re-reg as a ZV and wear any plates, but to chance it without a ZV...I think you'd have a hard time gettin a cop to believe you that becaues its turned 20 it no longer needs them. Might work on older stuff though? And as for pre '87 cars bein' alowed to do whatever the hell they want.......I like the sound of that


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 TomMc


    ned78 wrote:
    There is nothing stopping you geting a black numberplate with stamped grey letters for a 77 reg car for example. They don't have to be Euro plates ... aren't cars before 87 allowed to do whatever the hell they want? I still see old fiestas driving around with red&black plates.
    This new rule was put in place when the year type plates came in (1987 onwards) and was meant for all Irish registered cars. Since then, a lot of imports have come in, (they probably had not factored this into their thinking at the time, with the unexpected increase in affluence, Celtic Tiger etc.), and so this created a grey area - They really wanted ALL year type reg's to have the black typeface / white background on plates ... and to include the Euro Flag for post 1991 on vehicles. ZV plates were intoduced so this offered the only alternative option of reg format and colour/style.

    Although technically illegal to use something else, it is not really enforced by the Gardai, unless of course you really give one the right hump. Then you probably would be instructed to replace same or face a EUR1265 fine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    TomMc wrote:
    This new rule was put in place when the year type plates came in (1987 onwards)

    does this mean I could use an old style reg with an '85 WW 1234 ?
    TomMc wrote:
    Then you probably would be instructed to replace same or face a EUR1265 fine.

    That sounds good to me, worst comes to the worst, you have to get a pair of euro plates and you then go for the ZVs


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 TomMc


    hellcamino wrote:
    does this mean I could use an old style reg with an '85 WW 1234 ?

    Answer: No, not legal ... but this is only my interpretation of the law.

    That sounds good to me, worst comes to the worst, you have to get a pair of euro plates and you then go for the ZVs

    Answer: The most probably outcome ... but if you really pi..ed a Garda off, while commiting say some other offence, or had a bad attitude, then you could be facing a meeting with Maximum Bob for open wallet surgery.

    When registering an imported "classic" car for the first time in Ireland, you have the choice of the Year type or ZV reg ... You cannot swap one later on for the other.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭ cxcully


    Absolutely Corktina...I don't know what way our brains are wired but ZV XXXXX looks plain wrong.I'd imagine that their excuse for not issuing the old county plates e.g. ZM=Galway is something got to do with added paperwork/bureacracy.You'd imagine with computers nowadays it couldn't be too hard.
    I'm fairly ambivalent regarding plates-I don't mind a ZV with 4 digits or a discreet metal county plate (except Mayo) in silver letters on a black background (my DS is 69 G XXX)-any modern white plastic plate on a classic-county or ZV-should be punishable by death.Surprising amount of classics around with them.
    I love old Irish plates though.I'm getting a logbook for an old Irish DS (Dublin ZH) this month and am toying with the idea of putting the plates on my LHD DS.Might stick one bit of interior trim from the wreck of the old car (at a garage in Offaly) on and pretend to myself that I'm keeping it's spirit alive!!I know it's slightly dodgy and may cause me hassle if I'm ever selling her on but it looks SO DAMN NICE.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    you can change from a year plate to a ZV (and presumably vice versa)...costs €50.....

    I have all sorts of plates on my cars, and all with the year as in modern style...lots of shapes and colours and fonts...this one was taking the mick a bit though, so I changed them for the NCT to modern ones

    2yuktjl.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    Then its decided, newer reg no. on a classic style plate, might not go for the colour coding though!

    With regards to the sneaky plate swap....looks great till you have to test it or worst of all, write it off and your vin doesnt match. "must have been some impact to knock the drivers position clean over to the other side of the car" :rolleyes: Also, its only a matter of time before insurance companies, revenue and other powers that be cop on to the world of info sharing forums and use it as a way to spy on undeclared "mods and conversions", Its their job after all. Best to play some cards close to your chest :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,695 ✭✭✭✭ Wishbone Ash


    corktina wrote:
    you can change from a year plate to a ZV (and presumably vice versa)
    I'm open to correction corktina, but I don't think you can change from a ZV back to a year plate.

    You can also change an old Irish plate (+30years) to a ZV but only God knows why one would do that!



    Vehicle Registration and Taxation Regulations 1992

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI318Y1992.html


    9. (1) The identification mark assigned by the Commissioners under section 131 (5) of the Act to a vehicle entered in the register (in this Regulation referred to as "the identification mark") shall consist of:—

    ( a ) the third and fourth numerals of the year in which the vehicle is first brought into use,
    ( b ) an index mark, as provided for in the table to paragraph 4 of the First Schedule to these Regulations, corresponding to the functional area of the licensing authority in which the owner at the time of registration ordinarily resides,
    ( c ) a number which when combined with the appropriate numerals and mark aforesaid produces a unique combination,
    ( d ) in the case of a vehicle which the Commissioners are satisfied was constructed or first brought into use more than 30 years prior to the time of registration, and the person applying for registration so requests, an index mark ZV and a unique number.
    (2) A determination shall be made by the Commissioners for the purposes of this Regulation as to the year in which a vehicle is brought into use and shall take into account any previous registration documents, the distance which the vehicle has travelled, and any other matters which are, in the opinion of the Commissioners, fair and reasonable in the circumstances of the case.

    (3) The numbers referred to in subparagraph (1) (c) of this Regulation shall be assigned sequentially to each index mark, but the Commissioners may omit any numbers from a sequence established under this Regulation.

    (4) The identification mark of a vehicle shall remain assigned to the vehicle and no other such marks shall be assigned to the vehicle save in such circumstances as may be determined by the Commissioners or where the owner of the vehicle requests that the identification mark assigned to a vehicle which reaches 30 years of age be replaced by a mark in the ZV series.

    (5) Where a declaration under section 131 of the Act is made by a person, not being an authorised person, the identification mark of the vehicle concerned shall be displayed thereon as on and from a day not more than 3 working days after the registration of the vehicle.

    (6) The identification mark of a vehicle shall, until the vehicle is scrapped, destroyed or sent permanently out of the State, be exhibited on the vehicle on a rectangular plate or on an unbroken rectangular surface forming part of the vehicle and, in either case, the identification mark shall comply as to lettering, numbering and otherwise, with the provisions set out in the First Schedule to these Regulations.

    (7) Subject to the provisions of subparagraph (8), the identification mark of a vehicle shall be exhibited, in the case of a vehicle which has only one front wheel, on the back of the vehicle and, in the case of any other vehicle, on the front of and on the back of the vehicle in a vertical or nearly vertical position, so that every letter or figure of the identification mark is vertical or nearly vertical and is easily distinguishable, in the case of the letters and figures placed on the front of the vehicle, from in front of the vehicle and in the case of the letters and figures placed on the back of the vehicle, from behind the vehicle.

    (8) Where one or more trailers of any kind are attached to a vehicle, a duplicate of the identification mark of the vehicle shall be exhibited on the back of the rearmost trailer in the manner that the identification mark is required to be exhibited on the back of the vehicle.

    (9) Figures, letters, designs, ornamentation's, fittings or structures shall not be placed on a vehicle or trailer in such a position as to render more difficult the reading or distinguishing of the identification mark or duplicate identification mark of the vehicle or trailer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭ G Luxel


    I thought that if you imported a vehicle that was built before I99I that it can have period plates, ie silver on black, black on red, 87 black on white. These make the car more authentic. I have seen a lot of pre 86 cars with silver on black plates but the font is too small. I presume that there is still an old reg plate machine still operating in the country somewhere? If I had a red plate, then I could fit the plastic letters and numbers onto it even though it may read 78 D but surely this cant be illegal as it is a grey area.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭ G Luxel


    while I think of it, look at the German classic car scene.... nearly every car is re registered with euro plates and the letter H at the end. These plates are awful. I liked the traditional german black on white plates eg B-XK 5088. Does anyone know if the I950s plates there which were white on black are still legal over there or were all these vehicles forced to re reg to this euro plate??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    hellcamino wrote:
    Then its decided, newer reg no. on a classic style plate, might not go for the colour coding though!

    With regards to the sneaky plate swap....looks great till you have to test it or worst of all, write it off and your vin doesnt match. "must have been some impact to knock the drivers position clean over to the other side of the car" :rolleyes: Also, its only a matter of time before insurance companies, revenue and other powers that be cop on to the world of info sharing forums and use it as a way to spy on undeclared "mods and conversions", Its their job after all. Best to play some cards close to your chest :cool:

    i totally agree with you here....it's only as matter of time til someone gets caught and the bubble is burst and there are HUNDREDS of these ringers out there.They could affect the concessions the rest of us get ....the other point is that they have no insurance as the car they are covering is long-scrapped...

    More subtle colour coding on my red estate has the letters in fairly dark red on a white plate....don't know why, just like being a rebel i guess...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭ cxcully


    Point taken-I'll devote some thought to this.Are there hundreds of ringers out there?Are they for example lads bringing Minis/Minors in from the UK who prefer them on the old Irish plates and get them off an old wreck?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    Im sure theres plenty of ringers out there, especially as a way of avoiding vrt.

    Try Europlates (near fairyhouse) for the wider lettered silver on black plates 01-8251804. I think I read that somewhere on this site €25 for the pair too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    you see an awful lot of younger classics on original plates now, I'd guess 9 out of 10 are ringers.....I could list a dozen with out raising sweat over it...(not going to though:)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭ Dustpuppy


    Hi!
    I have a black with silver letters, but it's not a ZV plate. My is a normal one with year-2letter-number. I think it looks better, then the ZV ones. U can show this way what year your baby is:-D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,702 ✭✭✭ BrianD3


    Is there any legal way to "ring" a car? Lets say you own an original Irish classic car that needs a replacement bodyshell and engine. You source a donor vehicle in the UK. You restore the old car using the new "parts" :) Surely there must be legal way of keeping the identity of your car?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    Often wondered about this. I would imagine you might need to keep a certain percentage of the original car, but would be near impossible to prove either way. (once you dont have a dirty big weld around your vin plate :rolleyes: )


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,702 ✭✭✭ BrianD3


    Just thinking about this some more - is there actually anything illegal about "ringing" if neither of the vehicles are stolen. Ringing is generally taken to mean transplanting the identity of a written off car onto a stolen car which is an identical make and model. But if you buy a car and use it as a donor for an old wreck what's illegal about that unless there are specific regulations covering tampering with vehicle identities.

    Even if there is a "big dirty weld" around the VIN plate that doesn't prove anything. Also many cars have the chassis number stamped into the floor/sill area. As we all know, classic cars tend to rust in the sills and floor so many cars will have evidence of repair in these areas and possibly no stamp at all if a replacement section has been welded in.

    People swap engines around all the time - as long as the engine is the same spec as the original and the new engine number is declared to the insurance company and authorities then no problem. Also cars get reprayed different colours all the time and it's no problem

    I also don't see how "ringing" a car is VRT avoidance. You bring in a mint condition UK car and it donates its body and engine to an Irish wreck. The irish car has already had VRT paid on it when it was bought new. There is no reason to pay VRT because you're not importing a UK car to drive on Irish roads - in effect you are importing "spare parts" to fix an Irish car and VRT is not payable on spares.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    BrianD3 wrote:
    I also don't see how "ringing" a car is VRT avoidance. You bring in a mint condition UK car and it donates its body and engine to an Irish wreck. The irish car has already had VRT paid on it when it was bought new. There is no reason to pay VRT because you're not importing a UK car to drive on Irish roads - in effect you are importing "spare parts" to fix an Irish car and VRT is not payable on spares.

    Ah, but you ARE importing a UK car to drive on Irish roads. It depends on whether or not your pullin spares off a UK donor car to restore the original Irish car or just swapping identities from a rust heap on to a UK minter. If you bring a car in from the UK and you intend on just putting it on the road with a rusty Irish donor ID, the govt will loose out on the VRT, so I would imagine its not permitted. you're not using the UK car as spares. I know you can buy a complete body shell new for some cars and have it stamped with the original numbers, but dont they frown upon tampering with ID in any other way. The way I see it, you import it to drive, they want their slice. However, whos to say you didnt use the UK car as donor,rebuilding every last nut and bolt, you're just so highly skilled that nobody can tell the diff :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭ Silvera


    There is a guy selling large-digit silver-on-black plates doing the rounds at autojumbles, shows, etc.
    I've been told he may also now be selling red rear plates too?!

    I believe he owns the site www.autojumbler.ie


    I was in Brady's Motor Factors in Arklow a few days ago and he also can supply large-digit plates.....though he admits his supplier is a bit slow with processing orders???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    i had a lead on a plat supplier here in Cork, but couldnt find them......:mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ hellcamino


    camarobill wrote:
    craigsplates.com//any type shape you can think up,50 euro to your door includeing postage//3 days from order you will have them on your car;)

    These guys seem to have a nice selection, seem very willing to help in any way possible too. They also sell "photoblocker" for those of us with a slightly heavier right foot or the occasional "sticky throttle cable"....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    hellcamino wrote:
    These guys seem to have a nice selection, seem very willing to help in any way possible too. They also sell "photoblocker" for those of us with a slightly heavier right foot or the occasional "sticky throttle cable"....
    :) ......allegedly...you might have added...:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭ tc20


    I have silver on black plates on my 72 merc, takes the guess work out for others ;)
    I was under the impression that if you chose "dated" plates when first registering the car, you stuck with them, but if you first chose ZVs you could, if you wished to, change these once back to dated plates.
    just my 2c


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