Irish Freeview or Irish DTT

fta keith

I bought a 32 inch HD ready tv with UK freeview tv tuner in Belfast yesterday to upgrade my Digital tv viewing for the the Irish DTT pilot scheme. I got it for €600 or approx €850 and when I bought it in Currys I told them its was my UK address of London W12 7RJ which is the BBC address.

The Irish DTT pictures work perfectly with all 4 Irish terrestrial tv channels filling the whole screen in widescreen panorama clear. With 20-30 more free to air tv channels to come on the Irish DTT pilot from March 2007, I recommend everyone in Dublin and Louth to buy one of these tv sets asap. I am from South Central Dublin with an Outdoor tv Aerial which is connected to my new purchased tv.

I also have the sky digital digital satellite system with a UK sky freesat tv channels and a Euro Satellite dish along side my DVD Player is all connected to my new tv.

Furthermore: You can't get this above tv in the Republic of Ireland only in the UK.



The Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (the DCMNR) and the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (the BCI) have today on 6/11/2006 announced the completion of the process seeking applicants to operate as Multiplex Programme Content Managers on the Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) Trial.

The DCMNR and the BCI will offer places to the following applicants to provide programme content for the second phase of the DTT trial next year: Channel 6 Television Limited, Chellomedia Services Limited, Communicorp Group Limited, Magnet Networks, eircom & RTÉ, Sky Ireland, and USP Ireland Limited.

It is expected that the programme content offering from the successful applicants will include UK mainstream channels, in addition to local or niche programming and Irish radio channels. The launch of the new services on the DTT trial is likely to take place from 1 March 2007.

The trial, which was launched in August 2006, will provide insight into the issues associated with the roll-out of a national DTT system and the potential impact on the current analogue television network.

fta keith

Here are my predictions for the extra tv channels alongside the 4 basic one for the 2nd phrase of the Irish DTT pilot scheme which are:

Already we have rte1, rte2, tv3, tg4

My predictions are Setanta sports, UTV, channel 4, bbc1, bbc2, sky news, sky 3 or even sky 1, sky sports news, city channel, channel 6

The Uk tv channels have to made available FTA under the Irish Dtt as this is part of the Good Friday agreement which 94% voted yes here in the Republic of Ireland as we may get Five part of the pilot scheme

When this Irish DTT pilot scheme is finished, Irish DTT will be rolled out and my IDTV will be compatiable with any Irish DTT set up

If anyone really wants to know what the extra tv channels line up for the next stage of the Irish DTT pilot scheme contact your local td on your behalf to ask the communications minister what the line up will be as there is an election very soon, make the Irish DTT an election issue

watty

Your advice on buying a TV is flawed and dangerous.

The most important things about a HD Ready TV is screen size and quality. Not if it has a DTT decoder built in (which may in the end be no use for Irish DTT). A separate DTT receiver may have PVR option like Sky+ (but free) and be inexpensive when DTT actually starts.

watty

fta keith wrote:

The Uk tv channels have to made available FTA under the Irish Dtt as this is part of the Good Friday agreement which 94% voted yes here in the Republic of Ireland as we may get Five part of the pilot scheme

When this Irish DTT pilot scheme is finished, Irish DTT will be rolled out and my IDTV will be compatiable with any Irish DTT set up

Rubbish. The Good Friday agreement only provides for TG4 in N.I.

There is no clarity whatsoever as to when DTT will roll out. The basic free channels may or may not be compatible with an existing IDTV. pay channels probably not. Setanta sports, sky 3 or even sky 1, sky sports news, if on DTT will be a pay channels.

A separate tuner will be a tiny fraction of cost of a decent HDTV ready TV.

By all means buy an HDTV in UK if it has VHF tuner for Analogue and HDMI and SCART as a minimum. But don't make a special trip or make inclusion of DTT tuner an important feature.

An 37" 1920 x1080 HDTV with SCART and HDMI and NO tuners is more usefull and much higher quality than a 32" 1366 x 768 with UK DTT tuner and UK UHF analogue tuner.

DMC

What he said. Spot on watty.

You can predict what might happen, but its a dangerous thing to do, for such an expensive item.

Also, with regard to the spec, it won't be too long until we'll know what type of STB the triallists are going to receive. Early March.

PauloMN

I agree it's too much of a gamble. Standards always vary across regions, even between the UK and Ireland. When I read stuff like this, I always think of people back in the '80s coming home with their new telly they bought in Argos or somewhere else up north and being disappointed when they couldn't receive the VHF cable channels on it.

I like to have all the kit as much as the next man, but integrated solutions are not a wise investment when final specs for a system do not even exist. I'd have no problem spending €50 on a receiver to play about with during the trials, but advising people to spend almost €1000 on a system which might not work in the end is crazy.

Alun

A lot of sets available in Ireland though are coming with a DTT receiver installed whether you want it or not. I guess it's easier and cheaper for the manufacturers to just fit the same receiver module in all sets regardless than to go to all the trouble of producing two different models for the UK and Irish markets.

fta keith

Well I watched Nip/tuck and ER on the Irish DTT in the last couple of days on my above new integrated DTT tv picture full screen, clear picture, old tvs are very small, I can't wait to see the UK mainstream tv channels alongside Setanta Sports & Channel 6 on the Irish DTT from March 2007 which will all be FTA through this Irish DTT project.

keanebg1

Where did you get confirmation that these are going to be broadcast as part of the trial? And what makes you say there will FTA?

From past expierence I very much doubt this...

fta keith

Yes the UK terrestrial tv channels are going to be FTA on the Irish DTT Project abd the roll out later as the BCI or the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland told this to me as this is covered under the Good Friday !998 Peace Agreement, so if in doubt contact them

Mountjoy Mugger

The text of the agreement can be found here: http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

Please point out where there's reference to UK TV being shown here?

fta keith

Mountjoy Mugger, I quoted that when the BCI told me but the BCI told me again a few minutes ago

lucernarian

This is very interesting. Can they state with who the agreement was made and how issues such as rights and possible payment to the british channels will be organised? Anyway I'll believe it when I see the UK channels in a permanent multiplex from an Irish transmitter.

byte

I reckon there is a good chance of the main 4 UK terrestrials being carried on the Irish DTT. They will need to be carried for the service to be a success IMO. Also, I'd expect channels like Sky News, and maybe TMF etc.

But, it's all speculation at present. I'll be more interested in what system they'll use, whether it be MPEG2 or MPEG4, etc. Or, as somebody said to me a while back, they may use both MPEG2 (for 4 main Irish channels) and MPEG4 (for others).

Surely interesting times ahead...

mjsmyth

With regards to the system being a success... I thought that as a public braodcasting service, RTE and its channels had to be available FTA.

Now then, once the analogue switchover happens, and everything does digital, do RTE have any choice but to offer DTT, regardless of whether it will be a financial success or not?

Obviously I would ove the system to be a success. Between Dsat and DTT, practically all my TV needs would be met, for just an initial outlay for equipment.

I have to be honest though, if all i got thru DTT was RTE 1, 2, TV3 and TG4, I would be happy!

mj

fta keith

MJsmyth, I agree as well if the 4 Irish basic tv channels and maybe channel 6 I would be happy as well as I have all the UK Terrestrail tv channel including channel 4 & Five through an Sky freesat card

lucernarian

byte wrote:

I reckon there is a good chance of the main 4 UK terrestrials being carried on the Irish DTT. They will need to be carried for the service to be a success IMO. Also, I'd expect channels like Sky News, and maybe TMF etc.

But, it's all speculation at present. I'll be more interested in what system they'll use, whether it be MPEG2 or MPEG4, etc. Or, as somebody said to me a while back, they may use both MPEG2 (for 4 main Irish channels) and MPEG4 (for others).

Surely interesting times ahead...

That's a great idea. Those with freeview boxes near the border can receive the UK's digital channels and the Irish channels on the one box.

In the future when people will have to buy boxes for analogue switchover and are not able to get the UK ones where they live, they can get mpeg4 boxes and watch the basic UK ones at least. We maintain current compatibility while having the benefits of extra channel space or quality. I think that it would be the best solution.

Would it be technically problematic to implement a system with both codecs?

watty

All the MPEG4 systems receive MPEG2, fully backward compatible. Many of the MPEG2 systems with a CI for a payTV CAM can take a combined MPEG4 to MPEG2 transcoder & CAM. SD only , no HD.

The MPEG4 is not for HD, but to double number of channels.

watty

The BCI does not decide content or promote content. They licence the content or channel to be carried.

I agree there is no problem with the main UK channels being carried free. But a royalty would have to be paid, "Good Friday Agreement" or not. I still don't beleive there is any provision other than Broadcasting of Irish Services originated on either side of Border on both sides, hence transmission of TG4 in Belfast.

The royalty is not much so the UK channels could easily be on any Irish DTT Free even if Good Friday Agreement did not exist. They are already (apart from C4 & Five) free on Satellite and C4 is likely free from 2008.

Netherlands carries BBC on Cable.

There is no legal reason even if Good Friday agreement did nnot exist as to why BBC3, BBC4, CBBC, Cbeebies, CITV, ITV2, ITV3, ITV4 etc can't be on Irish DTT as well as the "normal" BBC1, BBC2 & UTV.

Wheter it is free or a small charge is up to the DTT operator.

gerryo

watty wrote:

There is no legal reason even if Good Friday agreement did not exist as to why BBC3, BBC4, CBBC, Cbeebies, CITV, ITV2, ITV3, ITV4 etc can't be on Irish DTT as well as the "normal" BBC1, BBC2 & UTV.

Whether it is free or a small charge is up to the DTT operator.

Any charge for UK stations would mean either a licence fee hike or the introduction of viewing cards (as per sky).
Increasing Irish licence fee to pay UK royalties is possibly a political hot potato, although most homes have UK channels already, the fee is on top of the licence. Therefore the Irish channels will need to be freely available & maybe a "top-up-tv" type card for the extras.

However, introduction of DTT + boxes with CAMs is an excellent way to ensure all users pay for TV viewing, no card = no viewing, so if the licence went away & was replaced with this, then fair enough.

Of course if sky were to continue to carry Irish channels, this would be ineffective, getting sky to hand over € would be near impossible.

Anyway, would RTE/TV3 want ITV + C4 freely available; not really, loss of advertising revenue is the main reason. Unfair comparison is another.

Would be great to see Irish DTT though, analog has had it's day.

watty

CAM for ANY TV viewing tied to licence is a stunningly evil idea. Akin to finger printing & Iris scan to enter school. I'm all for a TV licence, but not that way.

Any royalty for UK TV would not affect TV licence. The Cable & MMDS have to pay it. It is not much money. We can't go back to stealing BBC & ITV which is what the cable company in Dublin used to do when it was part of RTE.#

One reason the BBC ditched encryption / Sky (and DTT when they took it over) was to avoid possibility of a future Government linking TV licence to viewing card.

fta keith

With the Irish DTT pilot project almost to be extended

This is the revised lineup of Digital tv on Terrestrial and Satellite:

Dtt/ Terrestrail
rte1
rte2
tv3
tg4
channel6- will be FTA on the Irish DTT as Channel6 told me on the phone


Sateliite
BBC One
BBC Two
BBC Three
BBC Four
CBBC
CBeebies
BBC News 24
BBC Parliament
ITV1
ITV2
ITV3
ITV4
CITV
Men & Motors
Film4
Sky News
Al jazeera
France 24
Russia Today
Bloomberg
Chart Showtv
The vault
B4
Classicfm
Fizz
channelu
Bliss
Scuzz
Flaunt
Bubble hits
Channel4 - uk sky freesat card
Five - uk sky freesat card
sky3 - uk sky freesat card

Mountjoy Mugger

Please provide your source, if you have one, or is this just speculation?

Channel4 - uk sky freesat card
Five - uk sky freesat card
sky3 - uk sky freesat card

has got me really intrigued. Why should Irish DTT depend on a UK Sky card?

Fingleberries

Mountjoy Mugger wrote:

Please provide your source, if you have one, or is this just speculation?

Channel4 - uk sky freesat card
Five - uk sky freesat card
sky3 - uk sky freesat card

has got me really intrigued. Why should Irish DTT depend on a UK Sky card?

I thought the same, but looked closer at the list, these are FTA channels on Sattelite.
The first half of the list was Irish DTT, there is a gap between the two (terrestrial and Sattelite) to try to highlight this.

Mountjoy Mugger

Ah, so it's got nothing to do with Irish DTT then

s-t-e-p-h-e-n

I rang the BCI today and I was told that its not up to them whats on Irish DTT but its up to the NETWORK MANAGER! Furthermore The Good Friday agreement says that TG4 can be transmitted from up there nothing about us getting BBC & ITV. Rte1 & 2, Tv3 TG4 & Ch6 are going to be on DTT, The rest we won't know until March! FTA Keith out of interest what's your source, or is it just your own speculation!

fta keith

My Source is deep throat in the Coomunications Dept

rupamede

Hi I have just bought an HP Pavilion which comes with a Digital TV tuner and an aerial for watching TV, but when I go and try to install channels it says these services are not available in Ireland... but I know it is possible to get some channels... I connected the Digital TV tuner to my Sky box but it still did not pick up any channels - did anyone else have this problem?
Thanks, Rui.

DMC

You are located where?

Mossy Monk

s-t-e-p-h-e-n wrote:

FTA Keith out of interest what's your source, or is it just your own speculation!

does one even have to ask. all this person has been doing is talking out their arse. take everything said with a pinch of salt.

fta keith wrote:

My Source is deep throat in the Communications Dept

did you say before that you rang the Communications department. <SNIP>

watty

rupamede wrote:

Hi I have just bought an HP Pavilion which comes with a Digital TV tuner and an aerial for watching TV, but when I go and try to install channels it says these services are not available in Ireland... but I know it is possible to get some channels... I connected the Digital TV tuner to my Sky box but it still did not pick up any channels - did anyone else have this problem?
Thanks, Rui.

You need different software for the tuner card.

SPDUB

My Source is deep throat in the Coomunications Dept

Why was that edited to apparently put a wrong spelling there

fta keith wrote:

My Source is deep throat in the Communications Dept

Sponge Bob

I have heard the Cam to tv licence link too, sky videoguard cam to be precise.

as part of the offer to run this system for free the VAT issue may be put in ' abeyance '

watty

rupamede wrote:

Hi I have just bought an HP Pavilion which comes with a Digital TV tuner and an aerial for watching TV, but when I go and try to install channels it says these services are not available in Ireland... but I know it is possible to get some channels... I connected the Digital TV tuner to my Sky box but it still did not pick up any channels - did anyone else have this problem?
Thanks, Rui.

You can only connect an ANALOGUE tuner, or direct Analogue Video capture up to a Sky Digibox. Never a Digital Tuner.

A Digital Tuner come in Four Flavours:
:: DTT/DVB-t = Terrestrial via and Aerial, e.g. Irish Trials or UK Freeview
:: DVB-C = Cable Digital. Cable Companies in Ireland & UK only allow their own gear. Connects direct to cable from Street.
:: DVB-s = Digital Satellite, direct from LNB on Dish.
:: DVB-s2= Newer Digital Satellite, direct from LNB on Dish, mostly used for HDTV, backward compatible with DVB-s

Digital MMDS uses Microwave Terrestrial Base stations (2.5Ghz up to 12GHz depending on system) at 0.5W to 10W and a small dish or plastic box outside downconverting like an LNB, but to VHF/Hyberband/UHF frequencies. It can us DVb-c, DVB-s, DVB-t or DVB-S2 depending on band and system.


There are some Hybrid Digial / Analog cards which actually have DTT/DVB-t and regular Analogue WinTV tuners on same PCI card.

Zaphod

Sponge Bob wrote:

I have heard the Cam to tv licence link too, sky videoguard cam to be precise.
'

I was under the impression that RTÉ, as a public broadcaster, were opposed to encryption.

And videoguard cams are akin to fairy dust.

Sponge Bob

Zaphod wrote:

And videoguard cams are akin to fairy dust.

they are built into every sky box

Zaphod

That would mean going down the route of having an official "RTÉ DTT" decoder with Videoguard licensed from NDS. The implication being that you'd need separate boxes for every TV and video recorder along with matching cards.

Then again Dempsey is in charge of DTT...

Sponge Bob

is there any evidence that DTT will be rolled out nationally , ever. There is no funding in the NDP to do so as we know . There is a €4m budget for dicking around with and pretending .

27% of Irish homes are SUBSCRIBED to sky already . At least 33% of Irish homes have sky equipment installed and working , possibly as high as 40% .

Many others have cable. The total number of Irish homes with Digital TV of some sort exceeds 50% through both of these platforms.

why bother with DTT at all , our only international obligation is to turn off analogue tv by 2012 and free up the spectrum ???

Foggy43

I'm sure I read in another thread that what is happening at the moment is a private matter between the 'minister' and RTE.
Should the goverment decide to offer a DTT service will they have to offer it out to tender and award the contract to whom the feel will provide the best service.

Maybe the minister is carrying out this trial to see just what the public interest really is before any decisons are made. When and if any decison is made it will be left to Comreg to sort out?

It will be the next goverment who will decide DTT.

Sponge Bob

Molly Dawson wrote:

Should the goverment decide to offer a DTT service will they have to offer it out to tender and award the contract to whom the feel will provide the best service.

They already tried this 5 years ago and it fell through . The frequency plan was released 8 years ago and is here

Consultations were held 8 years ago too. More guff here from 2001 .

Nobody wants to roll out dtt in ireland . the minishter put together a forum telling him to get the finger out. It reported over 4 years ago.

If it was not so shambolic it would be funny .

Foggy43

Sponge Bob!
Thank you or the info.

I suppose I would be right in thinking no money to be made then no interest in rolling it out.

Sponge Bob

Priority 1 . Do not let it become an election issue so have a trial
Priority 2 . Do not let it become an election issue so have a trial
Priority 3 . Do not let it become an election issue so have a trial
Priority 4 . Do not let it become an election issue so have a trial
Priority 5 . Do not let it become an election issue so have a trial
Priority 6 . Do not let it become an election issue so have a trial
Priority 7 . Do not let it become an election issue so have a trial

.

I trust that explains government policy in this regard . It has nothing to do with wanting to serve the interests of the people whose analogue telly will be turned off in a few years .

DMC

Just a thought.... maybe they are waiting to see what the outcome of the trial will be before funding for national roll out is put in place?

If they announced a figure for DTT in the NDP plan, and for whatever reason it failed, the opposition will be on them for not delivering on that promise. But it is there, just not the figures. The cynic in me reckons that they don't know how much it will cost.

Sadly, Muck, this won't be an election issue. There are too many things higher up the pecking order than anything remotely technological.

Broadband, on the other hand, should be on the minds of every rural first time or under-30 voter. If it were mentioned to every candidate as they doorstepped the country, they'd soon get the message.

Sponge Bob

By that logic they are still trialling analogue 625 line as it never led to a national rollout either

Anyway all the money is spent/allocated until 2013 like I said , and no its not an issue nor will it be DMC

DMC

Sponge Bob wrote:

By that logic they are still trialling analogue 625 line as it never led to a national rollout either

Indeed, 625 line UHF on analogue isn't nationwide!

Sponge Bob

and you forgot to mention that FF don't want another Tom Gildea holding the balance of power because his local deflector will be switched off when NI goes 100% DTT in 2011 so they are neglecting to tell the public in Donegal .

Scotland, bigger and more rural than Ireland will be 100% digital by 2010 and Wales which is pretty damn rural for the most part and not in the least flat ....will be 100% Digital by 2009 .

Of course Dempsey knows that the Scots haven't a bloody clue and he knows that DTT will never work in Scotland because they resolutely neglected to trial the technology first .

I will vote FF because of that certainty of vision they always stand for unlike those dithering blueshirts

Ulsterman 1690

Indeed, 625 line UHF on analogue isn't nationwide!

Is TG4 not available nationally on Analouge (or as near as damnit)

Sponge Bob

Nope, it still needs deflecting to get 100% coverage .

Antenna

Sponge Bob wrote:

Scotland, bigger and more rural than Ireland will be 100% digital by 2010 and Wales which is pretty damn rural for the most part and not in the least flat ....will be 100% Digital by 2009 .

Of course Dempsey knows that the Scots haven't a bloody clue and he knows that DTT will never work in Scotland

Who says that Scotland and Wales will have 100% DTT coverage?
Absolutely No-one
If someone is saying 100% its a mixture of DTT and satellite, certainly not DTT alone.

The UK have FTA satellite of BBC and ITV, and FTV C4 and five, and its there for folks where DTT won't work due to the terrain.

We need FTA or FTV satellite of the Irish channels here.

As it is a lot of folk have poor terrestrial reception in towns due to tall buildings (getting worse with the construction boom). In rural areas forestry often cause severe difficulty with UHF reception.

Things will get worse in a couple of years time when we have TETRA transmitters - not ones on isolated hilltops, but TETRA transmitters on Garda masts in town centres pumping out TETRA (just below the UHF TV spectrum) which will ruin reception for a lot of viewers using masthead amplifiers in towns!

We need either FTA or FTV satellite availability of the Irish channels as an alternative to terrestrial.

Fingleberries

Antenna wrote:

Who says that Scotland and Wales will have 100% DTT coverage?
Absolutely No-one
If someone is saying 100% its a mixture of DTT and satellite, certainly not DTT alone.

The Plans are in place for this already, you can see the planned switchover dates here - http://www.freeview.co.uk/switchover

The DTT Coverage will be there, but not everyone might chose to use it (e.g. because they have Sky, or FTA dishes already). There's a difference.

The only thing is clear that if you only have an Analogue TV by then (or shortly thereafter), you'll most likely only be receiving static.

Sponge Bob

here is a map of wales and the switchover dates for transmitters and relays .

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/tech/transmaps/wales.pdf