Dangerous animals legislation

Mr. Presentable

What, if any, are the enforcable laws in this country regarding the ownership and handling of "dangerous" dogs? Are there breeds required by law to be muzzled, leashed, not permitted for breeding etc?

tallus

As far as i know Pitbull terriers are supposed to be muzzled. Not sure about the rest of the breeds.

trout

nipplenuts wrote:

What, if any, are the enforcable laws in this country regarding the ownership and handling of "dangerous" dogs? Are there breeds required by law to be muzzled, leashed, not permitted for breeding etc?

I was researching that very question over the Christmas ... the Control of Dogs act lists the following breeds ...

(a) American Pit Bull Terrier,
(b) Bull Mastiff,
(c) Doberman Pinscher,
(d) English Bull Terrier,
(e) German Shepherd (Alsatian),
(f) Japanese Akita,
(g) Japanese Tosa,
(h) Rhodesian Ridgeback,
(i) Rottweiler,
(j) Staffordshire Bull Terrier

According to the Regs, when in a public place these dogs must be (i) securely muzzled; and (ii) led by a sufficiently strong chain or leash, not exceeding two metres in length, by a person over the age of sixteen years who is capable of controlling the said dog.

check out this link -> http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI442Y1998.html

Ruu_Old

Similar to the above, from the Citizens Information website.

Rules relating to certain breeds of dog

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 (S.I. No. 442 of 1998) impose additional rules in relation to the following breeds (and strains/cross-breeds) of dog in Ireland:

* American Pit Bull Terrier
* English Bull Terrier
* Staffordshire Bull Terrier
* Bull Mastiff
* Dobermann Pinscher
* German Shepherd (Alsatian)
* Rhodesian Ridgeback
* Rottweiler
* Japanese Akita
* Japanese Tosa
* Bandog

The rules state that:

* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be kept on a short strong lead by a person over 16 years who is capable of controlling them
* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be muzzled whenever they are in a public place
* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must wear a collar bearing the name and address of their owner at all times.

The rules on muzzling and leashing do not apply to dogs used by the Gardai, the Dublin Harbour Police, State Airport Police and bona fide rescue teams in rescue operations. The rules on muzzling do not apply to guide dogs for the blind.

Gillie

Well that's me fecked!
I don't muzzle my GSD. I bring him where I know there will be very few if any ppl.
If I come across other ppl I will put him on a lead straight away.
Probably not good enough in most ppl's eyes but there ya go.

Do other ppl who own the dogs on the list use a muzzle?
How come Black Labs are not on this list?

Dave!

Boxers are of Mastiff descent, so does that qualify as a "strain or cross" of a Bull Mastiff? Or are that too tenuous a link?

Just wanna make sure I'm in the right in not muzzling my Boxer! Not that she'd ever need it mind you -- I'd be more worried about her pushing someone over than biting them!

superdudeman007

The muzzling rules do not apply to guide dogs for the blind.

How many blind people have alsations/pit bulls/rottweilers???

johnnyrotten

It amazes me , the amount of muppets with their pitbulls or Staff with no muzzle or lead. A lot of people have these dogs as a fashion item.
The law is not enforced

Gillie

superdudeman007 wrote:

How many blind people have alsations/pit bulls/rottweilers???

Some would have alsations but probably not the other two.

DaveMcG wrote:

Just wanna make sure I'm in the right in not muzzling my Boxer! Not that she'd ever need it mind you -- I'd be more worried about her pushing someone over than biting them!

I feel the same about my GSD but the person who meets me doesn't know that!
To be fair if I meet (and I have done) someone with a Rottie and no lead/muzzle, no amount of "Ah he won't touch ya" will make me feel better!

There is a requirement to enforce this legislation but I would question why some dogs are NOT on that list!

Kojak

Gillie wrote:

Some would have alsations but probably not the other two

Alsations wouldn't make good guide dogs - they are 2 excitable. In my experience, I haven't seen too many that are guide dogs, its always labradors.

I have a neighbour who owns 2 alsations and who never puts a muzzle on them. There's no need as they are harmless, but that only them 2 - I can see why these dogs need to have muzzles, leads etc.

Why aren't collies (i.e. sheep dogs) required to wear muzzles?? - these dogs can be as vicious (or more so) than many on the list above.

Gillie

Kojak wrote:

Why aren't collies (i.e. sheep dogs) required to wear muzzles?? - these dogs can be as vicious (or more so) than many on the list above.

Well said!

Nuttzz

Two Staffordshire Bull Terriers (I call them pitbulls but people in the know tell me they are staffordshire) sometimes enter the car park of our offices from the garden of a house behind us.

They roam on a elevated platform which puts them at head height when we are going to our cars, while they have yet to attack they are quite aggressive to us as we go into our cars. I have reported them to the dog warden a number of times but they have done nothing, the owners just scorn at us. I have a legally held shotgun and i am tempted to destroy them, i'd rather not but I worry about the safety of my staff but would like to hear any ideas/opinions before taking such a serious step

/edit they are not muzzled, leashed or collared and roam freely and are two grown (one male one female) adult dogs

Gillie

Nuttzz wrote:

Two Staffordshire Bull Terriers (I call them pitbulls but people in the know tell me they are staffordshire) sometimes enter the car park of our offices from the garden of a house behind us.

They roam on a elevated platform which puts them at head height when we are going to our cars, while they have yet to attack they are quite aggressive to us as we go into our cars. I have reported them to the dog warden a number of times but they have done nothing, the owners just scorn at us. I have a legally held shotgun and i am tempted to destroy them, i'd rather not but I worry about the safety of my staff but would like to hear any ideas/opinions before taking such a serious step

Why have the Wardens done nothing? Have they spoken to you?
Have you tried annoying the Gardaí also?

Might be worth getting some footage of the dog(s) being aggressive towards your staff?

nando

Subject to sub-article (2), these Regulations shall apply to every:—

( a ) American Pit Bull Terrier,
( b ) Bulldog,
( c ) Bull Mastiff,
( d ) Dobermann Pinscher,
( e ) English Bull Terrier,
( f ) German Shepherd (Alsatian),
( g ) Japanese Akita,
( h ) Japanese Tosa,
( i ) Rhodesian Ridgeback,
( j ) Rottweiler and
( k ) Staffordshire Bull Terrier and

^^ That's the list I found for restriction of certain breeds - that would need to be on a leash and muzzled in public.

Greyhounds must also be on a leash and a person cannot be in charge of more than 4 greyhounds at a time in a public place.

I totally agree that there are other breeds which are much more likely to bite than those on the list. Those on the list are very strong though, so I suppose more likely to cause greater damage if they attack.

Working with dogs every day in a situation where they are generally afraid and likely to be in pain I personally have found that the breed of dog most likely to bite is a West Highland White Terrier, so much so that I have met only one Westie that didn't try and bite staff working with it. But the damage a Westie can do is limited due to its size - it is unlikely to succeed in mauling me.

On the other hand the breed I would trust the most regardless of how much pain they are in would be a Greyhound/Lurcher. From the list above I would consider Bulldogs and Staffies likely to be very aggressive to other dogs but no more likely than any other breed to be agressive to people.

I would like to know how they came up with that specific list though - what research was done and what were their criteria for imposing extra restrictions.

Nuttzz - definitely inform the local Garda station of the problem if the wardens have not done something.

Jotter

I find the list to be a bit stupid to be honest. To me the breed of dog isnt a good indicator of aggression, the level of socialisation and responsible ownership is. I know they picked the breeds likely to do most damage if they do attack but I think that all owners when they go to buy licence should be made take part in a 5 hour obedience training school, they get a provisional licence to start and if they fail to attend then they dont get full licence and can be prosecuted. All dog owners when walking their dogs should be subject to the possibility of being asked to produce their licence (same as car licence) that way the people who buy dogs as tough fashion accessories might ( i repeat might) take proper responsibilty for their new pet! I know its prob not practical but it just bugs me when I see hard men walking their pitbull/rottie and I wonder do they have any idea how to properly look after their pet or are they just after the look.

Nuttzz

Will contact the gardai maybe they can do something about it, thanks guys

FranknFurter

Nuttzz wrote:

I have a legally held shotgun and i am tempted to destroy them, i'd rather not but I worry about the safety of my staff but would like to hear any ideas/opinions before taking such a serious step

The guards are your best option tbh.

(Having a "legally held" shotgun does not allow you to shoot any animal just because you *feel* it *may* be a threat to others. As you should know if you have one.
If the animal was in the process of attacking or being about to attack you, your property or your staff, then "maybe" you might not be prosecuted).

If the animal is on your land however, (dont know if you own or rent the offices and car parking area?) then as your first step you should inform the owners that they (and their animals), are not allowed on your land and that they will be reported to the guards as trespassing if they do. And that they will be prosecuted. Either do it in person or letter.

I understand your frustration however it is not the dogs that are at fault, it is their owners irresponsible behaviour that is at fault. It is THEIR responsibility to keep their animals out of your car park and secure in their own property.
It is the dogs owners who should be punished, not the animals who are only doing what they feel allowed to do.

B

hotlips_h

Kojak wrote:

Alsations wouldn't make good guide dogs - they are 2 excitable. In my experience, I haven't seen too many that are guide dogs, its always labradors.

The Irish Guide Dog association do indeed use German Shepherds. There are a few pictured in the book "Independence" that they brought out recently. They also mention them on their website:
http://guidedog.web59.thomascrosbieholdings.com/?cat=22

Tabitharose

Gillie wrote:

How come Black Labs are not on this list?

why would black labs specifically (as opposed to chocolate or yellow) be on the list they are all the same breed just different colours - do you just not like the black ones?

Jules

All dogs from Westies/yorkies/chihuahua to rotts/mastiffs/pitbulls should wear muzzles when out in public places. I have had more problems with small dogs then large ones. I think it is just responsible pet ownership to have some kind of restraint on your pet when out in mixing with other dogs and people!

racso1975

How come Black Labs are not on this list?

Whats the problem with them?

Gillie

Tabitharose wrote:

why would black labs specifically (as opposed to chocolate or yellow) be on the list they are all the same breed just different colours - do you just not like the black ones?

Sorry I should have clarified that.
In my experience a lot of them are quite vicious!

Of course that doesn't mean that they all are!

peasant

jules80 wrote:

All dogs from Westies/yorkies/chihuahua to rotts/mastiffs/pitbulls should wear muzzles when out in public places. I have had more problems with small dogs then large ones. I think it is just responsible pet ownership to have some kind of restraint on your pet when out in mixing with other dogs and people!

A muzzle for every dog?
Surely you meant to type "lead" instead of "muzzle" ...yes?

Jules

No peasant i ment muzzle, when out in public every dog should wear one! no matter bog or small, as i have stated before i have had more troble with little yorkies and westies than with larger breeds!

lightening

Nuttzz wrote:

while they have yet to attack they are quite aggressive to us as we go into our cars. I have reported them to the dog warden a number of times but they have done nothing, the owners just scorn at us. I have a legally held shotgun and i am tempted to destroy them, i'd rather not but I worry about the safety of my staff but would like to hear any ideas/opinions before taking such a serious step

I guarantee you, one man walking around a car park with a loaded gun is more dangerous than staff bull terriers. Further more, a dog unnecessarily injured can be dangerous to people.

Gillie

jules80 wrote:

No peasant i ment muzzle, when out in public every dog should wear one! no matter bog or small, as i have stated before i have had more troble with little yorkies and westies than with larger breeds!

Would it not suffice to have the dog on a lead only?

Jules

no it would not, not all the time leads can slip, break etc and people can approach your dog in a manner in which you feel is ok but can be a threat to your dog. Yeah you might say its a bit over the top but tbh a blank rule would be able to be policed much better than certain breeds as then you have crosses etc.

peasant

Why is a "dangerous dog" dangerous?

It is not because it is of a certain breed but because its owner has not trained it properly (or, even worse, explicitly trained it to be aggressive).
This applies to all dogs, big or small.

It is therefore not a certain class of dog that is "dangerous" but a certain class of owner. Usually (in the case of big dogs) it's the same "class" of owner that couldn't give a hoot about rules and regulations anyway ...and certainly not about the "dangerous dog act", because, let's face it, they will never control or muzzle their dogs in public because they deliberatly got them to intimidate people with them. So in these cases, the "dog control act" is about as effective as trying to control gun crime by telling people that there must be a cork in the barrel of their gun at all times ...laughable !

In the case of small(er) dogs, it's the kind of owner who has no clue about the hirarchical structure that is necessary when training a dog, but instead hug and kiss their little darling into a position where Pooch thinks the world is his/hers to rule according to their will ...anyone who doesn't share this view gets snarled at or bitten.

In both cases the dog has to suffer the consequences of its owner's shortcomings by being declared dangerous, be muzzled or even put down.

This is wrong.

Not the dog should be punished, but the owner !

Jules

peasant, as with the pb vs crossbredd thread, we are not gonna change peoples attitudes towards dogs and training etc, therefor to protect dogs from stupid owners they should be muzzled think about it logically!

peasant

Oh yeah right ...because a certain number of people is too stupid / irresponsible / sociopathic to take proper care of their dogs, "we" (...who's "we", btw?) must of course therefore muzzle all dogs in public ...

... logical, surely

What do they put in your breakfast these days, jules?

You do realize, do you, that muzzle actually causes great discomfort to a dog?
It prevents it from panting properly, it prevents it from barking properly, it seriously hampers inter-doggy cummunication by altering/distorting the body language signals that are transmitted via facial expressions, it prevents a dog from sniffing things properly ...never mind drinking or eating.

And that a dog actually has to get trained to accept a muzzle is another issue.

Jules

i dont know what kind of muzzles you use.. but if proper ones are gotten and that fit correctly they are fine. and also can drink through them. And obviously you still have not gotten off your high horse!

racso1975

^^^^^just like going through my prents divorce again

peasant

racso1975 wrote:

^^^^^just like going through my prents divorce again

LOL

seriously though ....

This is not a "high horse" I'm flogging to death here ... it's a matter of principle.

Basic right or wrong.

It is wrong (morally/ethically) to blame an innocent dog for the actions/omissions of its irresponsible owner. There is no such thing as an inherently dangerous dog, they were all made to be that way. Be that through bad breeding, bad training or sheer malice ...but in every case through human intervention. So don't blame the innocent animal, blame the guilty breeder, owner, consumer ...whatever.

Suggesting a blanket muzzling of all dogs on the other hand is not wrong ...that's just daft.

Sorry jules ...but it is.





and so to bed ....

FranknFurter

Peasant,
Just fyi, with a properly fitting muzzle a dog can easilly drink, bark, pant and sniff. Most muzzles you buy in a pet shop are designed to allow this.

B

Illkillya

Kojak wrote:

Alsations wouldn't make good guide dogs - they are 2 excitable. In my experience, I haven't seen too many that are guide dogs, its always labradors.

I have a neighbour who owns 2 alsations and who never puts a muzzle on them. There's no need as they are harmless, but that only them 2 - I can see why these dogs need to have muzzles, leads etc.

Why aren't collies (i.e. sheep dogs) required to wear muzzles?? - these dogs can be as vicious (or more so) than many on the list above.

I know a blind man who has always had alsations and the two that I have seen were both extremely well behaved, calm and intelligent - excellent guide dogs.

peasant

FranknFurter wrote:

Peasant,
Just fyi, with a properly fitting muzzle a dog can easilly drink, bark, pant and sniff. Most muzzles you buy in a pet shop are designed to allow this.

B

err ...no ...

In a pet shop you usually get:

1) the leather strap contraption
While this usually allows the nose to be unobstructed and therefore enables sniffing, in order to do its job, it is so tight that it prevents the full opening of the snout and therefore proper barking, eating, drinking and panting.

2) the wire mesh "basket thingy"
Here you get full panting and barking, but no direct contact ...hence no proper sniffing (as in sticking the nose right into it), no feeding and no drinking (at all)

3) the fabric "snout balaclava"
Sniffing is ok, but thats's about it. The rest is seriously hampered. Plus it gets hot and saliva collects inside.

All three of them are manufactured to fit as many dogs as possible, so they never fit an individual dog properly and chafe and cause discomfort.

Most importantly ...all three af them (all muzzles) prevent a dog from expressing itself (towards other dogs) via facial expressions. In some case the facial "disfigurement" of the dog wearing the muzzle will actually cause other dogs that meet it to get aggressive, and the dog wearing the muzzle cannot send the usual calming signals (licking of snout) and will be attacked.


Muzzles are to be used short term/short time only. During a visit to the vets with a known "snappy" dog for example.

Gillie

I'm with Peasant on this folks.
I have already stated that I have a GSD.
He is on a lead when ppl/other dogs are around. I have never muzzled him and I won't.
I consider myself a responsible Dog Owner Jules!
I will not "punish" my dogs because of some sadistic or stupid owners out there who mistreat/can't handle/don't train there dogs.
That I believe is the underlying issue.
Rant over!

Jules

where are people getting the plain silly idea that putting a muzzle on a dog is punishment! a lot of the time a muzzle can help to calm a dog. People will you see the bigger picture here, this is about preventing dogs who have stupid owners, not saying that anyone here is one of those said owners, from doing something that could get them pts and well in all fairness as FF has said you can get proper fitting muzzles, no matter what our resident expert, peasant, says!

TequilaMockingBird

As a person who is absolutley terrified of dogs (one of those lovely German Shepherds snapped at me as a child), my life would change if all dogs were muzzled. I've unfortuanetly passed this fear onto my child, which is such a shame, but I think its better she's wary than think its a cute little doggy she can cuddle. (Obviously I don't want her to ever be scared) We walk an extra mile to school to avoid an area where I have seen loose dogs. It really restricts your life.

Also, people who put their dogs on a lead as soon as they see someone around, its too LATE - if its me, I've already had a near cardiac moment! If I had any power left in my limbs, you could imagine what I would say to the twats who say "ah he won't touch you".

I know my fears are extreme, but they came about because of someone not controlling their dog properly.

Muzzle the dogs outside, let them be natural dogs in the security of your own land/property - not the land we all have to try and share.

peasant

jules80 wrote:

People will you see the bigger picture here, this is about preventing dogs who have stupid owners, not saying that anyone here is one of those said owners, from doing something that could get them pts

Would you please (ffs) get it into your head, that it's EXACTLY those owners who won't muzzle their dogs anyway ...no way ... no matter what the law (or Jules80) says ?

Instead you'd have every responsible person muzzle their dog ...precicesly those dogs that don't need to be.

All credit to your enthusiasm and your concern for dogs that may or may not be put down eventually ...just THINK for a minute what exactly you are proposing here.

As I've said before, this whole "dangerous dog" legislation is a farce. It is not the dog that's dangerous, it's the owner. It's like in the dark ages, where black cats were burned at the stake for witchcraft.


@sueme

whereabouts are you from?

If you're anyway near the Northwest, I'd only be too happy to meet up with you, so that you could get to know (under controlled conditions and at your terms) one to three absolute people dogs who love nothing more than charming their way into stranger's hearts.

Maybe this could help you overcome your fear a bit?

oldjovifan

I have already stated that I have a GSD.
He is on a lead when ppl/other dogs are around. I have never muzzled him and I won't.
I consider myself a responsible Dog Owner Jules!
I will not "punish" my dogs because of some sadistic or stupid owners out there who mistreat/can't handle/don't train there dogs.


I have to agree with Gillie!
I have two GSD pups aged 6 months and have had a previous dog before who wouldnt have hurt a fly. Whilst I can appreciate the fear people have over these issues, not everyone is an irresponsible owner and therefore their dogs should not be punished. its the old saying"do not tar everyone with the same brush".
I have my dogs, microchipped, insured and licenced and keep them on leads when out in public but let them run off when up in a place where no-one is around.
I am afraid that once people start handing in dogs under these amnesty rules to be destroyed voluntarily to avoid prosecution, where will the madness end? which breed do they chose next?

Gillie

oldjovifan wrote:

I have my dogs, microchipped, insured and licenced and keep them on leads when out in public but let them run off when up in a place where no-one is around.

Well done. That's better than most you know!
I know a guy who jogs in a big wood near me. His Rottie jogs alongside him.
If he comes across anyone yer man lets out the classic "ah he won't touch ya!".
Now that IS wrong! This dog is a monster! You have to at least put him on a lead!?! I always put my pooch on the lead if there are ppl or other dogs around. If other ppl with pooches don't do the same when they see you - what do you do then?

At this stage I know where I can go and not meet anyone. Suits me fine.

doctor evil

But how do you know that there is no other amenity user coming around the corner like walker/dog walker/jogger/cyclist/horse rider etc.

peasant

doctor evil wrote:

But how do you know that there is no other amenity user coming around the corner like walker/dog walker/jogger/cyclist/horse rider etc.

You don't ...and that's why you call your dog towards you, when there is a corner or something that you can't see around and you let the dog run again, once you can see for yourself that there's no-one around. Simple.

Gillie

peasant wrote:

You don't ...and that's why you call your dog towards you, when there is a corner or something that you can't see around and you let the dog run again, once you can see for yourself that there's no-one around. Simple.

Took the words right outta my mouth!
Trust me dr. evil. The places I go, i know like the back of my hand. Every corner and blind spot there is! I take precaution but not too much either!
I want him to enjoy his walk and not have me screaming at him every two seconds!

deaddonkey

Kojak wrote:

Alsations wouldn't make good guide dogs - they are 2 excitable. In my experience, I haven't seen too many that are guide dogs, its always labradors.

That's why GSDs are one of the 3 breeds used as guide dogs for the blind. 15% of guide dogs used by the Guide Dogs of America are german shepherds. Britain's first guide dogs were german shepherds.

Obviously too exciteable for police work where excellent discipline and temperament is required. If you don't know what you're talking about at all, then don't talk at all.

*smirk*

I have a german shepherd, she's 17 months now, rescue pup.
I keep her on a lead when I feel I can't control her without the lead, which is rare. If I tell her to come, she comes, if i tell her heel, she walks to heel. She isn't aggressive. She gets on great with my other dog (a tiny jack russel cross). Loves meeting new people, and is very calm and quiet and gentle with kids. She goes to the pub with me and sits under the table - she's quite simply not even slightly a dangerous dog. The law can go to hell.

Dangerous dogs legislation is bull****, and i'm not supporting it by muzzling my pup because of her breed. It's dog racism - if we said the same thing for having to cross the road when we see a muslim because they *might* blow us up there'd be public outcry.

My responsbility as a dog owner is that my dog is under control and doesn't hassle anyone. I make sure of that. I pick up her poop. I'm responsible.

But I am not responsible for other people's fear and misconceptions about my dog's breed - it's not my problem people are afraid of shepherds/rotties/staffies etc

I don't care what the law says, I'm not muzzling my dog or putting her on a lead when she doesn't need to be.

For what it's worth, I work in a vets, I meet hundreds of dogs a month, and only a very tiny proportion are bad tempered dogs. None of the dogs I've met so far that have been aggressive have been legally classified as dangerous dogs.

There are no dangerous breeds - there are individual bad tempered dogs with bad nerves, and there are dogs that have bad tempers due to how they've been brought up, but breed specific legislation is a ****in' joke.

As a person who is absolutley terrified of dogs (one of those lovely German Shepherds snapped at me as a child), my life would change if all dogs were muzzled. I've unfortuanetly passed this fear onto my child, which is such a shame, but I think its better she's wary than think its a cute little doggy she can cuddle. (Obviously I don't want her to ever be scared) We walk an extra mile to school to avoid an area where I have seen loose dogs. It really restricts your life.

Also, people who put their dogs on a lead as soon as they see someone around, its too LATE - if its me, I've already had a near cardiac moment! If I had any power left in my limbs, you could imagine what I would say to the twats who say "ah he won't touch you".

That's not a dog owner's problem, that's your problem. The owner has the dog under control, he/she doesn't need to do anything else just because you're afraid of it. You can't blame the owner's of a calm friendly dog because you're afraid.

I have not made other people\s fears my responsibility and I won't make it my responsibility. Get a grip.

I have never, ever met an aggressive dobermann/rottie/german shepherd/staffie

ever.

here's a link to a picture of my badly behaved aggressive, inherently dangerous, hyperactive pup with her best mate.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/deaddonkey/pipsandmags.jpg

deaddonkey

Gillie wrote:

Well done. That's better than most you know!
I know a guy who jogs in a big wood near me. His Rottie jogs alongside him.
If he comes across anyone yer man lets out the classic "ah he won't touch ya!".
Now that IS wrong! This dog is a monster! You have to at least put him on a lead!?! I always put my pooch on the lead if there are ppl or other dogs around. If other ppl with pooches don't do the same when they see you - what do you do then?

At this stage I know where I can go and not meet anyone. Suits me fine.

are you presuming the dog is a monster because of his breed? it sure sounds like it. Has the dog been aggressive to you? Has it attacked your dog?

I repeat, NO breed is inherently aggressive.

Band the deed, not the breed etc.

fits

Well said dead donkey. Some of the best trained dogs I've met have been GSDs. They seem to have very trainable temperaments.

The lady who has the canine phobia should seek help to conquer it rather than expecting every dog owner to muzzle their dogs and therefore compromise their welfare.

lovely dogs dead donkey.

deaddonkey

thanks. the shepherd is a rescue, had her 6 months or so, the jack rusell/daxie cross is a stray that followed me home one day. smart and trainable, but very, very stubborn and not too good at listening to me, so he's always on the lead unless i'm on the beach or something.
i love them to bits though.

TequilaMockingBird

Hi Peasant, thanks so much for your offer, I am in the North West and would definitely be interested in a little dog training (for me!). I had dogs as a child so its daft that because of that incident with a german sheperd (not that it matters what type of dog it was), that I'm so scared. Appreciate your offer.

As for Deaddonkey, wouldn't bother commenting on his/her views. The post gives us all the information we need of the kind of dog owner he/she is.

peasant

Sueme

Just pm me once the weather lends itself a bit more towards outdoor activities