Pedestrianising O'Connell St

Mr E

I wonder what this will do to traffic in the city center? What route would you have to take to get from The Locke to The Crescent? (Original Story)

Limerick City Council is planning to pedestrianise part of O'Connell Street in the heart of Limerick city centre.

Director of transport with the local authority Pat Dromey confirmed that plans are underway for the pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street from the junction at William Street as far as Roches Street.

This new plans follow the recent pedestrianisation in the city centre of Bedford Row and part of Thomas Street, which was completed last month.

The remainder of Thomas Street, along with Little Catherine Street, is due to be completed by mid-June.

Plans for the pedestrianisation of a section of O'Connell Street will be put on public display in the coming weeks, according to the council.

"There will be extensive consultation with all the stakeholders before we advance the planning process and we are hopeful that work on the pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street will start in the autumn," revealed Mr Dromey.

"But an integral part of pedestrianising O'Connell Street is the proposed inner orbital route of the city that will take the diverted traffic, and this will also be put on public display in the new year," he added.

Thomas Street businesswoman Siobhan Clifford, who owns the Exit shop, said that traders are delighted with the first phase of pedestrianisation of the street, which finished on December 8, 2006.

"It looks fabulous and there has definitely been a pick-up in trade since the works finished. We are getting more passing trade as people come back into the street," said Ms Clifford.

"The disruption throughout the year was difficult on traders but the end result is definitely worth it. No pain, no gain! I am delighted to hear that parts of O'Connell Street are going to be pedestrianised because it will complement the work done in Thomas Street and Bedford Row."

The Limerick Co-ordination Office (LCO) acted as an intermediary for the past year among Thomas Street and Bedford Row businesses, consultants and the city council.

LCO city-centre co-ordinator Andrew Mawhinney said: "Limerick City Council is to be complimented on its pedestrianisation programme.

"Already, we have seen private investment stimulated by this work and the public space can be used for a variety of purposes," he said.

Mr Mawhinney also complimented businesses in Bedford Row and Thomas Street for their patience and understanding during the construction work.

1huge1

wow thats great news
the city centre is really fighting back at the surburban shopping centre's recently

as for traffic
well i hope they figure out a good system in the planning

Limerick Dude

Class, about time there actually doing something about it, looking forward to seeing what it will look like!

dv

Wow, Autumn, that's a hell of alot earlier than I expected. I thought they'd be waiting at least until the tunnel was finished.

Anyway, the part-pedestrianisation of O'Connel St. would really help give the city centre a much more shopper-friendly atmosphere and at the moment O'Connell St. is pretty manky.

But where the hell are all the cars gonna go? I can't really see a two-way Henry Street taking up all the slack. How much pressure could the Quays take? Will buses/taxis still be allowed on O'Connell street, as was the original plan? Also, the article says it will be pedestrianised from William St. to Roches St. - so will it still be open to traffic from Arthurs Quay to William Street?

Anyway, any increased pedestrianisation is great for the city and I'd certainly love to see it, but I just hope it doesn't mean you've to be stuck in traffic for an hour to get there...

dv

A bit more information here, on page 15:
http://www.limerick.ie/general/finance/documents/Managers_Report_for_2007.pdf

Karmafaerie

I remember when they first announced this about 6-7 years ago.
They had artists renderings on the RTÉ news at the time. I wonder if they'd still be knocking about somewhere?!

1huge1

^^ what?? first i heard of it
I was looking on google earth (handy thing) for a way to divert traffic and theres a few options so im sure they can come up with something

hopefully they can do a bit of a clean up to william street too
this is really becoming a shopper friendly city
a good rival for patrick street in cork (which is one of the best ive ever seen in my life)

Karmafaerie

1huge1 wrote:

^^ what?? first i heard of it
I was looking on google earth (handy thing) for a way to divert traffic and theres a few options so im sure they can come up with something

hopefully they can do a bit of a clean up to william street too
this is really becoming a shopper friendly city
a good rival for patrick street in cork (which is one of the best ive ever seen in my life)

Yeah, I remember when it was first mentioned.
It was on the 6 o'clock news one night, and everyone was talking about it for a couple of days and then it just disapeared untill 2003.

Amazotheamazing

This has been planned for some time, though I don't think it was originally going to be a full pedestrianisation. It's long overdue, and will hopefully inspire some shop owners to renovate the front of their buildings too.

Hopefully we can learn from the mistakes made by both Galway and Cork and deliever an even better project than Shop and Patrick streets (both of which are excellant).

it's just another step in the right direction for the city centre.

iguana

Karmafaerie wrote:

I remember when they first announced this about 6-7 years ago.
They had artists renderings on the RTÉ news at the time. I wonder if they'd still be knocking about somewhere?!

It was first reported in the Limerick Leader about 10 years ago. I first saw it on the front page of the papers I sold in the Centra where I worked in the winter of '96-97.

Karmafaerie

iguana wrote:

It was first reported in the Limerick Leader about 10 years ago. I first saw it on the front page of the papers I sold in the Centra where I worked in the winter of '96-97.

Stop making me feel old!;)

iguana

Karmafaerie wrote:

Stop making me feel old!;)

I was the one who was working 10 years ago, you hadn't even done your Junior Cert.

Karmafaerie

iguana wrote:

I was the one who was working 10 years ago, you hadn't even done your Junior Cert.

True, but I was trying to be polite!:p

jonski

You have to wonder about the effects on traffic though . Traffic management in Limerick isn't great as it is . If it gives the trip to town more hassle then it will have the opposite effect on the shops as people will be more inclined to go to the shopping centers .

DarkJager

I don't see any point to this at all. I'm all for pedestrianised areas to a certain extent, where it does not conflict with a traffic heavy route. Bedford Row was a great idea, because it wasn't really jammed with cars at any time of the day. Pedestrianising O'Connell street is a seriously bad idea, the traffic in the evening is nightmarish enough without having one of Limericks main routes unusable. Limerick City Council need to scrap this idea A.S.A.P and concentrate on smaller streets like Thomas Street or even Cecil Street.

Amazotheamazing

Disagree DarkJager, the centre of a city should never have a main traffic road going right through it in the first place. The above plan will of course, only work if the various orbital routes and bypasses come online in time.

1huge1

Ya but don't be getting ahead of yourself, you have no way of knowing it could really mess up the traffic situation
agreed it can be very bad at times even now but who's to say they haven't worked out a plan to divert traffic which could actually shorten things (yeah right...)

though you do have a point in that they could concentrate on smaller streets but id be more in favour of more of a patrick street in cork thing only problem there is that O Connel Street is not nearly wide enough

DarkJager

I understand your point, but look at it like this. If I want to get from the Locke Bar to the dock road, I'll need to go twice the distance I normally would, to get there. We don't have enough bypasses or orbital routes in place or in planning to succesfully pull this off. Just look at what happens every year when the city goes car free...absolute chaos and motorists ripping their hair out, so people can walk up and down a roadway???

Amazotheamazing

That's only true if you accept that no other routes in town will change, I would expect that if this does happen, you'll see both Henry street and Liddy street return to 2 way traffic, with traffic coming on to them from before or after Arthur's Quay. The current oneway traffic from Henry street would be diverted on to the quays, I suppose.

Liam Byrne

I've never understood why Patrick St, the lower part of O'Connell St and Arthur's Quay were configured the way that they are....once you hit Charlotte's Quay, there is no way to get over the bridges without going right through the city centre, through 3/4 blocks of traffic, turn at Roches St and go back through 2 blocks of traffic before turning left.

If the pedestrianisation makes them rethink this setup, then it's welcome and long overdue.

1huge1

^^ yes thats what I was thinking
the system they have in place at the moment dosnt make sense in a lot of ways and doing this could not only be very good for the city centre but it will make them review what is already there hopefully ending in a much better traffic situation

Karmafaerie

I love this.
We're told that the city council is going to put forward a new traffic layout, that will take all the trucks, and heavy commuter traffic away from the city center.
Before the plans are even out there, we have people assuming that it's going to be bad.
Typical!:rolleyes:
Lets at least wait the few days till the plans are released before we make our minds up!

And just so ye know, nothing will be happening to O'Connell Street for years!
Here's a map of the planned changes to Limerick.



As you can see, the pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street is phase 5.
We're not even a third of the way through phase 2 yet!
It will be years before anything happens to O'Connell St.

The Shunnell will be finished by then and everything.

1huge1

^^ ahem cough cough

I'm being as optimistic as can be actually
I think its a great idea
whats next trams in the city

Amazotheamazing

Also, in today's Chronicle the Nenagh rail line going through Castleconnell will be opened as a commuter line in 2008, further reducing the number of cars that will need to enter the city centre.

jonski

I think the reason that people are worried is that the traffic management in this city has a tendency to make baby Jesus cry .

1huge1

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Also, in today's Chronicle the Nenagh rail line going through Castleconnell will be opened as a commuter line in 2008, further reducing the number of cars that will need to enter the city centre.

Is there really that many people from Nenagh commuting to Limerick?

Karmafaerie

1huge1 wrote:

^^ ahem cough cough

I'm being as optimistic as can be actually
I think its a great idea
whats next trams in the city

Sorry man, I wasn't complaining about everybody, just the few who were crying over spilt milk that's still in the cow!;)

1huge1 wrote:

Is there really that many people from Nenagh commuting to Limerick?

There is actually.
I went to school in the city with a fair few people from Nenagh, and I know two or three others that commute in for work now.
Plus, a lot of people would come in to the city and it's environs for shopping.

Amazotheamazing

Well, Nenagh town has really grown hugely in the last few years, it's reasonable to think there's a demand from both there and it's environs, there's definately a demand in Castleconnell, especially people from towns around it.

mysterious

Lads, this has sparked me off from another's Poster reply to this plan... " the current plan doesn't cater for through traffic that currently uses these roads" And he/she is spot on.

I love the whole city pedstriansation plan for Limerick as it's long overdue.. Especially since Limerick is way behind Galway, Cork and even Waterford, in keeping their city pedestrian friendly.

But paving away all the streets is going to put all the through traffic onto the already Congested Childers, North Circular, Condell and Henry street artrial roads... It's just NOT going to work. We need a plan that will benefiet both cars and the people. Limerick doesn't even have a reliable public transport to start with either, to copensate the absense of motor traffic in the new plan!!!

May I point out, Limerick has always being a drive through city as you all know... And geographically speaking it has expanded in that fashion i.e east west and north south of the Shannon. If you block it's main artery, the city will grind to a halt.

"Worst case scenario" It could even create a "ghostown" as their is no decent road in and out of the CBD but a serious of zig zagged intersections and inefficient detours that won't work when O'Connells street is paved away. It seems to me Limerick will just be a pain in the arse for your average joe coming from say Newport or Nenagh to do their shopping. It would be more logicall to head for the Crescent..

Which LC are really putting their efforts for not this scenario to happen..

The orbital inner ring will fail... all hands down. as the city is laid out in a grid etc.. Even with the current layout works very well with the one way system Limerick already has. Reading up old figures of the amount of traffic that just passes through every day is nearly 40,000 cars a day. Which is huge for a city of it's size. A good chunk of it will be transferred when the new Shannon tunnell opens thankfully.

Anyway what are your thoughts.

Also there was a slight mention by LC, of maybe the quayside roads to be widened to take the slack off Henry street when O'Connell street is blocked off for on street traffic as part of this new city centre plan...

My plan:) Would build ongrade DC (a la parkway type DC) on the bank of the shannon connecting Arthurs quay Sarsfields street bridge inclusive to the Shannon roundabout to revirt to two way with Henry street onto the old N20 it would be short and relatively simple, just means widening the current roadside.
Therefore both parties win ie. pedstrians get back the city and commuters get A to b quickly and effieciently.. IMHO the current plan just won't work. Henry street is already choking on one-way as it is. It's just pie in the sky to put the entire city traffic onto it too

We do need to look at this whole plan again, It's a very ambitous project, so we don't want to make ****ee of it.

ninty9er

mysterious wrote:

My plan:) Would build ongrade DC (a la parkway type DC) on the bank of the shannon connecting Arthurs quay Sarsfields street bridge inclusive to the Shannon roundabout to revirt to two way with Henry street onto the old N20 it would be short and relatively simple, just means widening the current roadside.

Red Flashing Lights!!!! Horns Sounding.....There is no Dual-Carriageway in Castletroy......It is a two lane road to facilitate people travelling in different directions....though you wouldn't think so the way some people use it..... Another road like that is the last thing Limerick needs

mysterious

ninty9er wrote:

Red Flashing Lights!!!! Horns Sounding.....There is no Dual-Carriageway in Castletroy......It is a two lane road to facilitate people travelling in different directions....though you wouldn't think so the way some people use it..... Another road like that is the last thing Limerick needs

What road do you use from the Groody roundabout to Parkway roundabout.. Btw way I was only using the road type as an example. Typical tree huggers:D Why in Ireland do we fear 4 lane city roads...

Lets get back on topic.

ninty9er

It is on topic. Have you seen the Parkway roundabout inbound on any given weekday between 4:30 and 6pm??????? Chaos!! We don't need it in the city and certainly not leading to aforementioned roundabout.......

Use William Street. Turn Right move across Catherine St. onto Roches St. and you've just circumvented the pedestrianised area. All that's needed is removal of on street parking entirely and replacement with a park and ride facility at Corbally, Castletroy Dooradoyle and NCR.While space freed up can be used as extra through traffic lanes for each direction and a Bus lane network

hobie

What will they do with all the multi-story car parks when the roads are closed off (per map above) ....

"pick your own" Mushroom growing perhaps ..... :cool:

mysterious

ninty9er wrote:

It is on topic. Have you seen the Parkway roundabout inbound on any given weekday between 4:30 and 6pm??????? Chaos!! We don't need it in the city and certainly not leading to aforementioned roundabout.......

Use William Street. Turn Right move across Catherine St. onto Roches St. and you've just circumvented the pedestrianised area. All that's needed is removal of on street parking entirely and replacement with a park and ride facility at Corbally, Castletroy Dooradoyle and NCR.While space freed up can be used as extra through traffic lanes for each direction and a Bus lane network

I agree on your point, But your seriously missing my point being..

Limerick is and always had through traffic east west going from Corbally/Dublin side to the Shannon roundabout N69(N18) lower Henry street old N20 bounds. This setup was and is henry street NB and O'Connells street SB... It's a fine setup BTW.

In the current plan without proper straightforward access it's going to create caoius!!! even with other enhancements such as the Park and ride. I.e where is all the extra traffic going to go?

It's putting all SB traffic onto the Henry street axis when O'Connell Street is upgraded.

Everything you mentioned above is fine, but that's not going to happen overnight either as Limerick's public transport is also a bit rough and very inefficient, ask anyone..


I'm not in favour of building super roads through cities.... But the diverted traffic cannot be just ignored or put onto other roads.. It's utter bullshhit.. I'd even moot having the quays widened for NB traffic which currently uses Henry Street and the diverted O'Connells SB traffic should use Henry street. Thus it would be deemed obvious to upgrade the quay roads. Either way this is the last resort..

But

The 4 lane carriegway was just my idea to connect the Mallow/Shannon roundabout to Sarsfield juction and Arthurs quay as a relief to BOTH Henry street and O'Connells street. Maybe a little ambitous and daring for the locals..

Cork has a fine piece of 4 lane road coming into the city from Blarney. Dosn't mean it's flying over Patricks street or anything! Jeez..

Anyway I hope u see the point here.

mysterious

Here's a map to illistrate the two options Pink the possible LC plan to reroute O'Connells SB onto Henry street and the old NB movement onto the quays likewise..

The green is the quayside road widened along the banks to cater for two way traffic.. This is just an idea... That I'd think would be perfect. Henry street just will not cope IMHO..

The line as you can see starts at the Mallow street Henry street quadrant and proceeds North easterly to the Abbey river at Dublin road. Just so everyone knows the route that currently exists.

What do you think...lol if unclear about the map ask me.

1huge1

But are you forgetting about the shannon tunnel, you have said yourself on many a occasion how many cars its going to take out of the city, surely that could cater for the pedestrianing of O'Connel St, though as long as it dosn't end up with Childers Rd becoming MORE congested.What I see happening is more than likely Henry Street will become 2 way again

mysterious

1huge1 wrote:

But are you forgetting about the shannon tunnel, you have said yourself on many a occasion how many cars its going to take out of the city, surely that could cater for the pedestrianing of O'Connel St, though as long as it dosn't end up with Childers Rd becoming MORE congested.What I see happening is more than likely Henry Street will become 2 way again

Yes It will.. But the remainder of the traffic. i.e Commuter and city traffic wanting to get from one side of the city to the other.. out of the 40,000 about 15,000 will be removed, just from an educated guess. but with O'Connells street remoddled your putting that onto crippled Henry street. so its no win no gain..

They all said childers road would become quiet when the SRR opened it didn't. The city took control of the road that's what happened.

Henry street is choked as it is. Wait for the Bedford and the other developments to come on stream.

Amazotheamazing

Mysterious, there are other streets that can take heavier traffic than they currently do, for example, you could divert cars up Broad st/John St across Musgrave street and down Parnell street.

I disagree with your contention that the current system works well, it works well for traffic, but destroys the city centre, and contributes hugely to making Limerick's city centre the dirty and unpleasant place it currently is.

What I don't understand is why 40,000 cars need to pass through the city in the first place? Surely they aren't all going to Galway? The city is already bypassed on the East, there's plans for a tunnel on the South, and further plans for a bypass on the North (out beyond Castelconnell?).

JohnnyBalls

A storm in a teacup really. Once the Shannon Tunnel comes on stream huge volumes of traffic will be able to bypass the city effectively giving Limerick City Council a green light to pedestrainise O' Connell St. and not before time.

What people are forgetting is that construction isn't even due to start. Its going into consultation as far as I am aware, two very different things. By the time they do start this I wouldn't be suprised if the tunnell was finished. But I really do believe something has to be done with Limerick City Centre and the spot they've choosen would work in encouraging a pedestrian friendly city. The removal of cars from O Connell St. can only be a good thing for the beauty, civic quality and people of Limerick and I welcome it with open arms. The thought of nice street furniture, a monument, lighting and trees dotting a newly paved O Connell St. exites me as a resident in Limerick and is a much needed long overdue rejuvenation of what is a diabolical street as it stands.

Karmafaerie

Exactly JB.
As I pointed out at the very start of the page (which Mysterious seemed to ignore while modifying the map;) ), this will not be happening for 5 or 6 years at earliest!
Before any work on the pedestrianisation of O'Connell St. starts, Limerick will be completely bi-passed, North, South, East and West.

There will no longer be a need for a national road to clog up our city center.
If this is done right, then it can be nothing but good for Limerick.
Will it be done right is the real question though!

dv

Although the original idea was to have O'Connel Street pedestrianised after the Shunnel is built, the article at the top of this thread states:

we are hopeful that work on the pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street will start in the autumn," revealed Mr Dromey.

Obviously the chances of this starting on time are practically non-existent but at the moment at least they don't seem to intend to wait for the Shunnel to open.

I definately do want this to go ahead. Pedestrianising this part of O'Connell St., crossed by Bedford Row/Thomas St., would give Limerick a fantastic shopping area right in the centre, with Cruises St. right next door aswell.

But there'll have to be a seriously good traffic plan put in place. There are plenty of examples (Childers Road, anyone?) that show that the city council just doesn't quite 'get' traffic, to put it mildly, so apprehension is understandable.

1huge1

Well if it starts in Autumn you guys were well off when you said 5 or 6 years, although if it does start in autumn (unlilely but some time this year maybe) we could see it finishing around the same time as the tunnel but well before the city is totally bypassed

either way I'd like to see it open after the tunnel but not too long after

Karmafaerie

I seriously, seriously, doubt that anything will be done to O'Connell St. for years.
All of Thomas St.,Part of Catherine St., Little Cathrine St., Little William Street., and Foxes Bowe all have to be pedestrianised first, not to mention the whole area off Bedford Row around the new Hotel.

For them to start on O'Connell St. before these areas are ready, and a proper traffic circumvention has been put in place would be unthinkable, even for LCC!

No, any talk of work starting in Autumn is just political blustering.

dv

Going by the length of time it took to complete Bedford Row/lower Thomas St., phase 2 will be finished well before the Shunnel (Catherine St. and the rest of Thomas St. aren't being pedestrianised, just repaved with wider paths and no parking). But that does still leave William St. (supposed to be done before O'Connell St. according to the original plan.) as well as the lower and upper ends of O'Connell Street that could still be started first.

I haven't claimed to know what's going to happen and as I've already said I want the pedestrianisation to go ahead. But when it comes to planning and traffic, a huge cock-up is always on the cards.

ninty9er

Karmafaerie wrote:

All of Thomas St.,Part of Catherine St., Little Cathrine St.:eek: , Little William Street., and Foxes Bowe all have to be pedestrianised first, not to mention the whole area off Bedford Row around the new Hotel.

:eek: They can't do that. It removes the quickest route from William Street to Roches Street forcing way too many cars to unnecessarily use Gerald Griffin/ Parnell Street to get around the pedestrianised area...I'd be one unhappy motorist:mad:

adaminho

dv wrote:

I haven't claimed to know what's going to happen and as I've already said I want the pedestrianisation to go ahead. But when it comes to planning and traffic, a huge cock-up is always on the cards.

From the original drawings circulated at the time by Limerick city council O'Connell street is not going to be COMPLETELY pedestrianised. The proposed works provide for the pavement in front of Penneys to be extended to where the flowerpots currently are. Removal of on street parking up as far as the junction with Lower Cecil street Afaik and widening of the footpaths to accomodate this. On street parking on William street is to be removed save for a set down area for busses in front of the Centra and one loading bay on each side staggered so one is outside Newsoms and the other by the Roma casino. O'Connell street would still have two lanes of traffic all the way up but with all on street parking removed and just one or two loading bays and the bus stop at Brown Thomas.

dv

I had thought the original plan was to close off O'Connel St., or at least a section of it, but allow buses and taxis. What I've read over the last few days seems to suggest complete pedestrianisation of O'Connell St between William St and Roches St, which would be fantastic as long as it doesn't cause traffic mayhem.

Obviously nothing's set in stone and with the way these things go it could be ages before we even see the plans that are supposed to be released in the next few weeks.

1huge1

Wait now so which is it then
everyone so far has said a section of o connel st will be a complete pedestrianisation and now were saying some traffic will still be let through

id be more in favour of the road in from of brown thomas becoming completly pedestrianised as long as the traffic is sorted out

Karmafaerie

The plans are for the widening of the footpaths that adhamino suggested Along all of William St., and O'Connell St. from the junction of Roches St. to the junction at Mallow St..
There will be no parking and one lane of traffic going each way on O'Connell St.
From the junction at Roaches St. to William St. Junction, O'Connell St. will be fully pedestrianised.

Poxyshamrock

I think we should just do what Dublin and Cork did with there main streets and widen the footpaths as much as we can but still keep traffic going through. Just think about it, if we pedrestianised O'Connell Street, just imagaine the street at 8 o' clock on a tuesday night in the middle of february...it would be EMPTY and it would just have a deadening effect on the city centre.

dv

Below is an image of the original plan (yanked from a post by dave123 on archiseek), showing what traffic goes where and in what direction. Of course we still have to see the new plan.

I had thought of that problem aswell Poxyshamrock, and O'Connell St. would definately be pretty deserted at certain times if it was completely pedestrianised. Maybe another solution would be something along the lines of the original plan - allow buses and taxis through, leave the bus stop there and possibly set up a taxi rank aswell. This would ensure some level of activity at night but it still wouldn't be too busy during the day. The taxi rank on William St. definately needs to go, but I'd say the drivers would be happy enough if they got one on O'Connell St. instead.