Saddam - Will They Show It

aphex™

Saddam is destined to be hanged in a few days (unless he goes 'missing' during the handover).

Do you think they'll show it on any stations here? I have a feeling it will come by surprise on a satellite feed in to some of the news stations. I presume they've decided whether or not they're showing it already.

Pro: Show the Muslim and entire world that the tyrant is gone
Con: Its an execution, not something you want to see without warning while you're eating dinner and flicking the stations.

Al Jazeera will surely show it, yeah?

Do you think Sky will show it? Channel 4 might after 10pm to be 'controversial', i think.

Thoughts?

Dundalk Daily

Aphex I just came on to start a thread on who will be first with the scoop, so I will squeeze it in here if you dont mind, if you do I will edit this post.

I dont think we will see the actual deed maybe the aftermath, body going away in an ambulance or something like that. Perhaps news will only be broke weeks after it has actually taken place, who knows ?

I think its a bloody disgrace anyway, if he goes I think Bush should go the same way.

Anyway my money is on the NY Times for the scoop.

aphex™

Good question,
I think it'd be hard to keep what happened under wraps for a few weeks. Maybe a press conference will be given by the Iraqi PM. That would go out live on Sky news so everybody will have it. Sky are saying it will probably be tomorrow because of a few holy days happening over there (Sunday & after).

Dundalk Daily

Americans have just confirmed that they have handed Sadam over to he "Iraqi" authorities.

It looks like the next 24 hours according to RTE

DarkJager

It should be televised with a warning about the content. This is a key moment in World History....

DMC

I can just picture the start of Cat Ballou, with Stubby Kaye and Nat King Cole singing....

"It's a hangin' day, in Wolf City, Wyoming...."

spank_inferno

DMC wrote:

I can just picture the start of Cat Ballou, with Stubby Kaye and Nat King Cole singing....

"It's a hangin' day, in Wolf City, Wyoming...."

good one Also imagine an RTE sound engineer saying.... "and Que the boiinng noise when he drops through the gallows"

But seriously though no western channel will show the execution, middle east channels probably wouldnt either, its just bad taste to, even with a disclaimer. Though as the event will be filmed it may end up online somewhere.

flogen

DarkJager wrote:

It should be televised with a warning about the content. This is a key moment in World History....

That's hardly justification. For a start the real "key moment" in Iraqi (and, at a stretch, world history) was his deposition. His death will be as much of a fresh start as his capture was, that is to say none at all.

I don't see any constructive reason for this being televised as there's nothing for anyone to gain from it. If people just want it for posterity there are plenty of other ways to achieve that.

Kojak

DarkJager wrote:

It should be televised with a warning about the content. This is a key moment in World History....

It won't be televised, IMO. While there would be huge interest in it I think it would be wrong to put a public excequition (sp??) on live tv.

World History?? So if Osama Bin Laden was caught and sentenced to death, that should be on tele as well??

Huggles

I dont think it will be televised but I reckon we will see some sort of photographic evidence (like they did with his sons).

DarkJager

We're talking about the execution of a man who has the blood of so many innocents on his hands, a real scumbag for use of the word. Televised or not, the video is going to end up on some macabre site like Ogrish for all to view. I'm not saying that it would be right to do so, but for such a sadist and murderer to be getting his fix of karma at last, I for one would love to see it..

Huggles

DarkJager wrote:

We're talking about the execution of a man who has the blood of so many innocents on his hands, a real scumbag for use of the word. Televised or not, the video is going to end up on some macabre site like Ogrish for all to view. I'm not saying that it would be right to do so, but for such a sadist and murderer to be getting his fix of karma at last, I for one would love to see it..

Im with ya there but I think the news agencies have to be seen to be behaving in a respectable manner. As intrigued as I would be I would be VERY shocked if Sky or BBC showed it.

flogen

DarkJager wrote:

We're talking about the execution of a man who has the blood of so many innocents on his hands, a real scumbag for use of the word.

Irregardless of how much he deserves to die (which is a whole other argument) what is gained by televising it?

Televised or not, the video

That's assuming it's recorded at all

is going to end up on some macabre site like Ogrish for all to view.

By that logic TV channels should also have broadcast the beheading of Ken Bigley or Nick Berg etc.

I'm not saying that it would be right to do so, but for such a sadist and murderer to be getting his fix of karma at last, I for one would love to see it..

And you watching the death of this sadist and murderer would make you a....??

I'm having trouble seeing what you or anyone else can earn from watching Hussein die; while I disagree with it I'd at least respect the honesty of the person that wants to watch it out of morbid curiosity.

Huggles

flogen wrote:

I'm having trouble seeing what you or anyone else can earn from watching Hussein die; while I disagree with it I'd at least respect the honesty of the person that wants to watch it out of morbid curiosity.

I think the belief behind it were the Iraqis are concerned is

1) to show that he is dead and gone and will not return to power

2) that the radicals do not need to fight for him anymore for a similar reason to the above.

For me though its purely morbid curiosity.

DarkJager

I have nothing to earn from it, I simply have the "morbid curiosity" you talk about and if there was ever a video I'd like to see it would be this one. I don't know if that makes me a sicko in your eyes, I prefer to think of it as watching justice being done at last. Ken Bigley and Nick Berg; that was not justice and I can also say I have no interest at all in seeing that. Those 2 men did nothing wrong, and were executed by cowards who supported Hussein. In my eyes killing Hussein, is vengeance for the familes of everybody killed by these fanatics. I'm finding it hard to really get my point across (extremely tired) so please don't take my views as confrontational. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from...

Killaqueen!!!

'Today or tomorrow' is what I've heard from Sky News. I would also wonder why anyone would wish to watch it if it were televised. It's a bit sick isn't it?

Still think they should have let him rot in jail.

Ghost Train

Will be interesting to see how it's handled
Can't really see the execution having much positive effect outside of Iraq, for Iraq it's probably something that just needs to be done, I'd say keeping it as low key as possible would probably be best. He or the hanging doesn't really deserve any attention.

kleefarr

I think you'll be able to find it somewhere on the net if not on the TV, just like you could with the beheadings that happened a while ago.
The only people that would want to see it though will be people that have been oppressed by his rule and wished him dead for a long time. For others it will be just another spectacle.

flogen

TheGooner wrote:

I think the belief behind it were the Iraqis are concerned is

1) to show that he is dead and gone and will not return to power

2) that the radicals do not need to fight for him anymore for a similar reason to the above.

For me though its purely morbid curiosity.

I think there are other ways to show he's dead, if someone doesn't want to believe it they'll make up a conspiracy theory no matter what evidence they're presented anyway.
As for stopping the fighting, I'm afraid it's moved beyond Hussein a long time ago.
While groups in Iraq still support him and want him back in power, he's no more than a figure head and one that's easily replaced. His death will have even less of an effect on Saddam loyalists as the death of al-Zarqawi had on Al Quaida operations in the country, and as long as the Sunni's want power they'll find a person to lead them.

DarkJager wrote:

I have nothing to earn from it, I simply have the "morbid curiosity" you talk about

OK, so you can go to "some macabre site like Ogrish" and watch it if it's recorded. That's what other people with a morbid curiosity for videos of death do; they don't demand the MSM show it.

and if there was ever a video I'd like to see it would be this one. I don't know if that makes me a sicko in your eyes, I prefer to think of it as watching justice being done at last.

I don't think you're a sicko, I'm just trying to figure out why... not that my opinion of you matters.
As for justice, I think the death penalty is the least just sentence a person can be handed; don't you think he's getting off easily?
How many did he kill, how many families did he ruin, how many did he injure and how much long term damage has his reign done? And is that all repaid by a few seconds of pain for him? Given his love of power and publicity I'd much rather see him grow old in a dingy cell somewhere. That said the rights and wrongs of the death penalty are another story.

Ken Bigley and Nick Berg; that was not justice and I can also say I have no interest at all in seeing that.

So you only want to see death if it's just? Of course, the argument then comes down to the definition of just, which is contextual and based on opinion. Perhaps you can define a justified death.

Those 2 men did nothing wrong, and were executed by cowards who supported Hussein.

If I'm not mistaken, both men were killed by Islamic extremists who either supported Al Quaeda or at least wanted Sharia law in Iraq; as I'm sure you know Hussein was the relative opposite of Al Quaeda and imposed a secular judicial system on the country during his reign.

In my eyes killing Hussein, is vengeance for the familes of everybody killed by these fanatics.

If you're referring to the fanatics currently fighting in Iraq, such as the ones who killed Bigley and Berg, then you've pretty much completely misunderstood the situation.

I'm finding it hard to really get my point across (extremely tired) so please don't take my views as confrontational. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from...

Fair enough; there's nothing wrong with being confrontational in a debate as long as you can back it up (as there is a difference between being loud and confrontational).
I'm still not sure where you're coming from. If you want to see someone die, fair enough... I don't want to but that's your choice and something you can deal with in your own way.

mackerski

flogen wrote:

As for justice, I think the death penalty is the least just sentence a person can be handed; don't you think he's getting off easily?
How many did he kill, how many families did he ruin, how many did he injure and how much long term damage has his reign done? And is that all repaid by a few seconds of pain for him?

That might depend how many seconds "a few" are. You've used the easy-way-out angle to this on an earlier thread, but at no stage have you indicated any knowledge of the actual level of suffering that will be involved in Saddam's demise.

Based on all clues, there is no reason to suppose that the execution will be performed using long-drop hanging. If it isn't, the likely suffering could be prolonged. I don't pity the man, but I certainly don't envy him his easy way out.

flogen

mackerski wrote:

That might depend how many seconds "a few" are. You've used the easy-way-out angle to this on an earlier thread, but at no stage have you indicated any knowledge of the actual level of suffering that will be involved in Saddam's demise.

Based on all clues, there is no reason to suppose that the execution will be performed using long-drop hanging. If it isn't, the likely suffering could be prolonged. I don't pity the man, but I certainly don't envy him his easy way out.

I'll admit I'm no expert on hanging, but as I detailed in the previous thread you cite, be his suffering a few seconds, minutes, hours or weeks long it still would pale in comparison to the suffering he enacted upon others and would still be far from a just punishment for the wrongs he has done.
From what I've seen, however, there are no clues whatsoever to suppose what technique will be employed in this case.

Dundalk Daily

Looks like there is a delay due to the fact that there is a civil case against Sadam in the US and we wouldnt receive a fair trial if he were not around for it. Ramsey Clarke is involved in this move. This is all according to Sky. They also have a Human Rights Lawyer on who believes that the latest developments were timed to coincide with Xmas, a weekend and the New Year holiday which makes it difficult for those trying to stall the execution.

county

looks like it will take place at 6am tomorrow baghdad time,3am our time

Kinetic^

flogen wrote:

Irregardless of how much he deserves to die (which is a whole other argument) what is gained by televising it?

It'll have been the only decent thing shown on RTE over christmas.

Dark Hair

Kenny 5 wrote:

It'll have been the only decent thing shown on RTE over christmas.

A Dub in Glasgo

The execution has now taken place

aphex™

Sky are showing pictures from Iraqi TV of him walking up to the rope, cameraman literally feet away.

I'd be interested in hearing if any western stations showed it. Not sure if I'd be interested in seeing it myself though. I suppose after seeing so many innocent people die and never any guilty people I'm happy it has happened.

I don't care about his trial personally, everybody in the world knows what he did. He got a lot more than his victims ever will.

Morlar

Apparently his last words were 'Palestine for the arabs'.

Suff

I am Sad and Angry for his Death.

The trial was a sham and unfair!
It should have been hed somewhere neutral where the real questions could be asked.
In My opinion he was killed in order to put a lid forever on the scandal the world would have seen if they let him truely speak....remember who met him in the early 80's (1982) with a shipment of Anthrax ?? who gave the order for him to invaid Kuwait?, Fight the Iranians? terminate and form of Iraqi resitance???

Who?

robnubis

'God is great. The nation will be victorious and Palestine is Arab,"
- Last Words of Saddam Hussein

He didn't put the bag over head is the news aswell, seems he was more or less ensuring his martyrdom by facing the whole situation without fear and with a lot of honour.

Aquos76

Moments leading up to Execution

A Dub in Glasgo

No hood as he was hung and balaclava hooded executioners, have they just made Saddam an even bigger martyr to more people?

Dundalk Daily

His trial was far from fair. I caught something on Sky last night that during his trial one of the charges was for the murder of 80 odd named people. Well it seems that several families came forward during the trial and claimed that their loved ones were not dead but in Iraqi prisons. We didnt hear too much about this. I think his crimes will be forgotten and in the future he will be seen to be a great martyr in the Arab world. It was probably be the only victory that Bush will gain from this war.

cee_jay

Why Sky showed Saddam at the gallows:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1245551,00.html

aphex™

Dundalk Daily wrote:

His trial was far from fair. I caught something on Sky last night that during his trial one of the charges was for the murder of 80 odd named people. Well it seems that several families came forward during the trial and claimed that their loved ones were not dead but in Iraqi prisons. We didnt hear too much about this. I think his crimes will be forgotten and in the future he will be seen to be a great martyr in the Arab world. It was probably be the only victory that Bush will gain from this war.

Unfortunately that doesn't make much sense, the US freed all the political prisoners long ago, why would they still be holding on to them?

cAr0l wrote:

Why Sky showed Saddam at the gallows:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...245551,00.html

Thanks for the link

Milktrolley

Not sure where I stand on this one. One part of me reckons that it would be good to see him suffer for a change, even if it is only for a few minutes. But I remember finding the coverage of the Pope's death difficult - not in any major way, but I kind of felt like we spent a few days watching his slow and inevitable death... it was a bit moving. And that wasn't even graphic. So how disturbing would it be to see him choking to death, even if he (and Bush, it has to be said) was among the biggest bastards the world has known? In a nutshell, I'd be curious to see it, but I'd be concerned as to what I'd be letting myself in for.

superdudeman007

There's video on the Sky News site (It's under something like "Saddam's last moments" in the "News in Video" section) that shows him being led to the gallows. It cuts out a few seconds before he is hanged but it's still pretty chilling. The camera is just a few feet from the platform. I don't think the Iraqi government even released any more footage.

superdudeman007

Here's the link:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,30000-execution_301206_0901,00.html

DMC

The BBC News 24 controller has said in his weblog that for daytime broadcasts, they will show the moments leading up to the noose being put on, whereas later on tonight, post watershed, they will show the noose being put on and not much then after that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/

Have Sky News showed the noose going on? Or RTÉ? I see on the site the main news pic is there. I have had the chance to watch News 24 or Sky News today.

EDIT: Thanks SDM007 for the link.

superdudeman007

DMC wrote:

Have Sky News showed the noose going on?

They did lastnight/this morning (in the video at that link ^^), haven't really seen it since. Not sure about RTÉ

Dave!

My brother got a 50 inch LCD TV today, so we were wondering what a hanging might look like in high definition

Judt

I arrived in at about 6am this morning, three hours after the hanging, and the media organisations like BBC and Sky were nearly creaming themselves at that stage with the thoughts of seeing the (as yet unreleased) footage of the execution. Big ratings booster... :rolleyes: Of course a lot of them have been saying "We'd not show the actual hanging", yet pictures of a dead Saddam are alright. What's the difference, really? Yet more media rating whoring.

Milktrolley

The amateur video of the hanging is among the links at the bottom of [mod edit] if anyone wants to see it. I haven't taken a look at it yet, I might do at some stage.

MisterAnarchy

Looks like his neck snapped straight away,there was a huge drop off the gallows.

flogen

Milktrolley; I've edited your post to remove the link; I know you didn't post a direct link, but I'd rather avoid any links, indirect or otherwise.

For the record, the Saddam execution video has indeed been published online. Anyone who posts a link to it, or provides a link to a site that links to the video, will be banned instantly an indefinite period of time (I'm treating this as I would any other snuff movie.)
Anyone who does want to watch the video can surely find it via Google; apparently even Google Video has it at the moment.

DMC

Judt wrote:

Of course a lot of them have been saying "We'd not show the actual hanging", yet pictures of a dead Saddam are alright. What's the difference, really? Yet more media rating whoring.

There is a difference, really. Media organisations have always shown pictures of open coffins and dead bodies, where the pictures themselves are not particularly gruesome. In recent weeks, Pinochet's open coffin was show on news bulletins.

Very importantly in the UK, Ofcom and the BBC Governors wouldn't allow any TV channel to show those pictures. It could be seen as a licence revoking offence. Human rights lawyers would haul their asses into court over showing the actual hanging if it was shown.

Also, impressionable people would take away ideas, and the media organisations won't want to take the blame for showing it if there was a copy-cat incident. Who is to say that, hypothetically, if a school bully in the next few days hangs a pupil, that the parents will blame the media or the internet for scapegoat purposes?

We live in an age where if you want see it, you can. Google is thy friend.

Drapper

very sad indeed! saw the vid on Google Vids and it was disturbing......

Owen

Well, I've seen the Nick Berg video, and now the Saddam Video, and dammit, neither made any sense. Instant Martyr.

aphex™

DMC wrote:

Very importantly in the UK, Ofcom and the BBC Governors wouldn't allow any TV channel to show those pictures. It could be seen as a licence revoking offence. Human rights lawyers would haul their asses into court over showing the actual hanging if it was shown.

Actually Channel 4 have shown an execution before- one of some lady who was being held in some Islamic country and was sentenced for something fairly routine, can't remember more details. Which was the reason I started this thread. I presume there was loads of angry messages and they didn't wanna do it again.

Sky have recently discovered the YouTube one from a different angle, showing lots of it. Personally, I wouldn't search for it but I would watch if someone put it on screen and said have a look.

DMC

aphex&#8482 wrote:

Actually Channel 4 have shown an execution before- one of some lady who was being held in some Islamic country and was sentenced for something fairly routine, can't remember more details. Which was the reason I started this thread. I presume there was loads of angry messages and they didn't wanna do it again.

I remember that, I don't think it was the film made by ATV, "Death of a Princess" that caused a diplomatic incident with Saudi Arabia in the early 1980's, but film of that execution of a Saudi princess for the crime of adultery I think exists, but its long lens and from a distance. She is shot by firing squad, all you see and hear are the bangs of the guns and her slumping towards the ground.

The filming of Saddam's demise is quite close.