Housing Bubble Bursting

whizzbang

iguana wrote:

Is this the future for many of Ireland's current developments?

http://www.winknews.com/news/local/7896352.html?video=YHI&t=a

From: $310k
Down to: $185k

nice!

"They promised us that they were were not going to go below the market value"

Welcome to the world of weasel words madame. Clearly the market value is now 180k.

Feel sorry for those who bought high. That's the sort of thing that will eat away at your for decades.

iguana

whizzbang wrote:

From: $310k
Down to: $185k

The last 4 went for $145k. Though perhaps they were smaller.

whizzbang

iguana wrote:

The last 4 went for $145k. Though perhaps they were smaller.

True, I just took what the one guy said as it was both prices for the same house.

I wonder how long before we see sales like this here?

Was there anything like this in the UK in the 90s?

Plissken1

iguana wrote:

Is this the future for many of Ireland's current developments?

http://www.winknews.com/news/local/7896352.html?video=YHI&t=a

Nice homes, compared to some of the crap housing estates you see going up here. I was over in Dallas in 2005, some lovely houses available, I don't think Americans have ever heard of a box room.

Plissken1

Plissken1 wrote:

I don't think Americans have ever heard of a box room.

No and its not like things have to be the way they are here. Yet we managed to go backwards with regard property in the past 10 years. Townhouses and apartments. Square footage went down as prices went up.

Disgusting.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Plissken1

whizzbang wrote:

True, I just took what the one guy said as it was both prices for the same house.

I wonder how long before we see sales like this here?

Was there anything like this in the UK in the 90s?

I was in the UK when it happened, it was even worse. And things deteriorated so rapidly. People walked away from property leaving the keys with the bank, as it worked out cheaper to do this. I knew one guy who went from being a millionaire on paper to owing the bank money. I dont think that will happen here though (famous last words).

nesf

A Random Walk wrote:

I'm surprised no bank or estate agent has suggested potential FTBs should consider whether they really need two kidneys, and whether they should consider selling one to buy a badly built hovel in some new estate in Leitrim.

Clear examples of people trying to bail out:
http://www.daft.ie/194383
A block of 4 apartments together.

http://www.daft.ie/113984
For sale "as is" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prices are coming down fast! look a 6 bed house for 120,000 Euros!!!!!!!!!

http://www.daft.ie/182671

whizzbang

Plissken1 wrote:

I was in the UK when it happened, it was even worse. And things deteriorated so rapidly. People walked away from property leaving the keys with the bank, as it worked out cheaper to do this. I knew one guy who went from being a millionaire on paper to owing the bank money. I dont think that will happen here though (famous last words).

Interestingly I'm pretty sure you cannot walk away here. If you do the bank just sells your house and you still owe them the difference.

ie buy for 400k (100% mortgage lets say)
walk away and the bank sells it for 250k
You still owe the bank 150k.

The only way to lose the debt is bankruptcy I believe.

nesf

Deleted User wrote:

Prices are coming down fast! look a 6 bed house for 120,000 Euros!!!!!!!!!

http://www.daft.ie/182671

"Quaint and Charming..."

whizzbang

whizzbang wrote:

The only way to lose the debt is bankruptcy I believe.

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/PageCurrent/EAF057FFEE42EA4280256E4500510401?opendocument

All you need to know about going bankrupt. The consequences of it and how to go bankrupt etc etc

The consequences of bankruptcy for the bankrupt

1. All of the bankrupt debtor's property at the date of the making of the bankruptcy order (called the " order of adjudication ") transfers to the Official Assignee with the exception of necessaries up to a value of €3100 or more if the court allows; all property which the bankrupt acquires after the date of the order of adjudication transfers to the Official Assignee if and when the Official Assignee claims it;

2. The bankrupt's salary or pension is liable to being appropriated by the court for the benefit of the creditors subject to any provision the court may make to meet the family responsibilities and personal situation of bankrupt;

3. If (s)he obtains credit of €650.00 or more without disclosing the bankruptcy, the bankrupt is guilty of an offence;

4. If (s)he trades in a name other than that in which s(he) was adjudged bank-rupt without disclosing the latter name , the bankrupt is guilty of an offence;

5. If the bankrupt acts as a director, manager, auditor, liquidator or receiver of a company without leave of the court, s(he) is guilty of an offence ;

6. The bankrupt has certain legal obligations in connection with the administration of his/her estate, including the delivery up of his accounts or papers to the Official Assignee when requested; the delivery of his/her property to the Official Assignee, the filing of a statement of affair the giving of every reasonable assistance to the Official Assignee in the administration of his/her estate; and the disclosure to the Official Assignee of any property acquired by the bankrupt since the date of the bankruptcy order.

THEY WILL BLEED YOU DRY

Plissken1

Ah yeah I was just giving a quick explanation of what happened in 91/92, I hope I didnt give this impression of people posting keys through letter boxes.

whizzbang

Deleted User wrote:

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/PageCurrent/EAF057FFEE42EA4280256E4500510401?opendocument

So if you can pay back half the debt by selling all they own (incl property, cars, pension etc) they get out?
Or waiting 12 years.

Seems nasty.

I think Bank would rather you keep house and pay what you can until you are dead or have it all paid off.

Banks love perpetual debt!

whizzbang

whizzbang wrote:

So if you can pay back half the debt by selling all they own (incl property, cars, pension etc) they get out?
Or waiting 12 years.

Seems nasty.

I think Bank would rather you keep house and pay what you can until you are dead or have it all paid off.

Banks love perpetual debt!

Exactly Whizzbang I think alot will have done or have already been done through "voluntary arrangements".

God they can take your pension

Zambia

whizzbang wrote:

So if you can pay back half the debt by selling all they own (incl property, cars, pension etc) they get out?
Or waiting 12 years.

Seems nasty.

I think Bank would rather you keep house and pay what you can until you are dead or have it all paid off.

Banks love perpetual debt!

Currently reading a book Called "Maxed out" by James Scurlock which would back this opinion up.

As long as you keep paying they will keep taking.

Consequences for the creditors note the difference between secured and unsecured.

The consequences of bankruptcy for the creditor

The impact of a bankruptcy on a creditor will differ depending on whether the creditor holds security for the debt or not.

The preferential creditor
Certain kinds of debts are given priority for payment before other creditors may expect to receive a dividend. They include tax, rates and certain kinds of employee claims in respect of certain periods.

The unsecured creditor
1. can no longer exercise the ordinary remedies (e.g. execution, instalment orders, registration of judgement mortgages) available to a creditor;

2. must take benefit of the bankruptcy and unless the creditor has a preferential status, will rank equally with the other unsecured creditors;

3. is not entitled to claim contractual/judgement interest beyond date of adjudication unless a surplus arises in the bankruptcy;

4. must await discharge of the Official Assignee's and Petitioning creditor's costs, expenses, fees and preferential payments before receiving a dividend;

The secured creditor must elect whether:
(a) to rely upon the security held, realise the asset comprising the security, and prove for the unsatisfied balance following realisation or

(b) to value the security at a specific figure and prove as an unsecured creditor for the difference between this figure and the total debt owing or

(c) to abandon the security and prove as an unsecured creditor for the entire debt.

I think they would probably sell the houses for whatever they can get in a falling market and then take the persons salary and pension and cars. That is the most likely scenario. Anyone who owns their own business would be ruined.

Probably leave alot of people, especially with families who bought far from Dublin, in a worse position than had they claimed the dole and looked for a council house.

whizzbang

A timely reminder:
http://www.salon.com/ent/video_dog/comedy/2006/02/06/debt/index.html

The_Conductor

Deleted User wrote:

Clear examples of people trying to bail out:
http://www.daft.ie/
A block of 4 apartments together.

http://www.daft.ie/
For sale "as is" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you knocked them together you'd actually get two very reasonably sized 3/4 bed apartments, fully kitted out, for 400k apiece. Actually maybe thats a bit pricey for Newbridge- even for a nice 4 bed on Main Street......

Gurgle

Rents rise by 12%
Cue the explanations of why this has no bearing on the long awaited, much anticipated crash that may or may not be happening or about to happen.

miju

read back through the thread gurgle and you will see people have been expecting rents to increase due to shortage of supply from investors taken property off the rental market and putting them for sale.

you should really stop trying to jump the gun

eth0_

I'm a bit worried if i'm doing the right thing buying an apartment now. I've just put a holding deposit down on a 2 bed beside St James' hospital that won't be ready for a year. At the moment it's a great deal (370) and it's a luxury apartment, but i'm petrified of ending up with negative equity.

I'm planning on renting out one of the rooms to help with the mortgage and even without that I can - as it stands - afford the mortgage on it, but I still feel a bit worried when I look at threads like this one...

patrickolee

Then don't look at threads like this one. It's been going around and around for quite some time now.

Personally I love been worried I think!

eth0_

Well, i'm going to speak to the mortgage broker on Saturday so I may not even be able to buy the place

I figure it's worse if you're going to be living there alone, at least I will have a steady supply of tenants, being beside two hospitals, close to the city centre and right on the luas line.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Gurgle

miju wrote:

read back through the thread gurgle and you will see people have been expecting rents to increase due to shortage of supply from investors taken property off the rental market and putting them for sale.

I've searched the last 20 pages for the word 'rent' and found no such thing.
Can you supply a quote or link?

Every mention of rent is where people are pointing to low rental yields as one of the reasons the bubble is going to burst. Surely the fact that rents are going up is valid rebuttal to this arguement?

you should really stop trying to jump the gun

Me jumping the gun?
On a thread titled 'Housing Bubble Bursting'.
lol:p
This whole thread is jumping the gun.

SimpleSam06

Gurgle wrote:

I've searched the last 20 pages for the word 'rent' and found no such thing.
Can you supply a quote or link?

Yer. See those nice graphs? Properties for sale, increased 300% in the last year. Thats people pulling properties off the rental market to sell, pushing up rental rates (pure supply and demand). Properties for rent, by contrast, has only increased ~12%. This trend is expected to completely reverse in about a year or two, at least by some.

You may have missed it, in fairness its been said repeatedly many many times for the last twelve months, and this is exactly what was predicted to happen.

Its not our fault if you can't read.

Zambia

Sorry Gurgle its been said ..its not one of the four Horseman but its a side effect as they ride through

Shaken Public Sentiment
Higher Supply
Increased Interest Rates
Less Easy Credit