Foriegn plated cars on our roads?

snaps

Who monitors or polices the amount of foriegn plated cars using our roads? The reason why I ask is some one at work from eastern europe has been boasting for the last 4 years he has been driving his polish car on irish roads with no tax, insurance, nct and gets away with it?

When he was questioned by us at work he says the gardai have stopped him many times and he just says he is on holiday?

What stops me from going abroad and just buying a foriegn plated car and doing the same?

Surely foriegn people have to get their car re registered with irish plates and taxed and insured etc like us all?

Henry Ford III

It is mess.

Customs and excise should pursue VRT in theory. The cops insurance and tax.

It's very hit and miss.

snaps

But how do they get away with it? What happens if you have an accident with one of these guys? Ive never thought about this before?

In Galway alone I know lots of non nationals that have been driving around for years in foriegn cars?

Seems the hundreds and thousands I pay to keep my car on the road here is making a mug of me!

Mojito

I would have thought that when you arrive at customs on entering the country they issue you with a arrival customs ticket. Then when stop by the Gards they should have to pruduce this ticket, if they can't then bye bye car!

But then again thats very complicated and would cost billions to implement and take 10 years to do. :cool:

Mc-BigE

Henry Ford III wrote:

It is mess.

Customs and excise should pursue VRT in theory. The cops insurance and tax.

It's very hit and miss.

No VRT to pay because their not an Irish Resident (I know, its a joke) but a polish resident on holidays in Ireland.

So no VRT = Customs don't care.

Now motor tax/insurance/NCT is a different matter.

sprinkles

They wouldn't have to pay the full VRT if they owened the car outside the state for more than 6 months, the fee for reregistering it would be about €50.

snaps

So because they are not Irish but still working and living here for 4 or so years they are not doing anything wrong?

Owen

TBH who cares. There's a million threads on boards whinging about this, and nothing will ever be done about it. It's the EU boys, get used to it, it probably happens in other countries too.

snaps

Im not whinging but astonished! So after all the winding up this guy has done at work he is correct, Nothing can be done with him on our roads!

I cannot believe this, is it the same for us if we go to their country?

gyppo

ned78 wrote:

TBH who cares. There's a million threads on boards whinging about this, and nothing will ever be done about it. It's the EU boys, get used to it, it probably happens in other countries too.

Maybe you might care if your car/yourself was damaged/injured by an uninsured driver.
Agreed, "it probably happens in other countries" - That does'nt mean its right.

Mr.Diagnostic

I think we would all agree that it is a disgrace, so lets see if there actually is anything that can be done about it or not!

Even if the guy in the opening post owned the car long enough before he came here to not be liable for VRT he must still register the car and pay insurance tax etc.

@ OP (snaps) you have the info regarding one who is driving uninsured and untaxed. Why not post the info here (make and model of car, reg number, drivers name, where he works and (if known) where he lives. Then, how ever many members here care to can report him to the gardai. If it is not permissable to do this here then maybe members could ask for the details to be PM'ed. Mods??

He is breaking the law after all and it is our duty to do this

Perhaps if one or two get caught the rest will comply.

Tanabe

I agree this is a total disgrace & a total insult to the rest of us Irish citizens who have to pay this unnecessary form of double or even treble taxation every time you buy a car.

As Snaps asked earlier, can we do the same if we were to move to another EU country? Drive over on our Irish plates & let that be the end of it?

I thought customs were cracking down on all these foreign registered plates over the last couple of weeks? This guy deserves to be caught for VRT just like the rest of us.

peasant

Most of these people would have owned their cars for more then 6 months previously and are therefore not liable for VRT (not even 50 Euro as mentioned above)

On the other hand there is nothing keeping the gardai from looking for proof of insurance ...there is something like the international green insurance card after all.
But the gardai are so used to looking at round little disks, so when they don't see any (and the driver on ther "wrong" side) they just wave you through ...lack of enforcement ...as usual.

snaps

i was tempted to phone the gardai after having to put up with his boasting and listening him saying he was untouchable, I know others that were listening to him wanted to throw him in the corrib!

Apparently though the gardai cannot do anything with him? Only thing is outstanding custom and excise duty, but like you say who would collect this?

Its really amazed me, this.

peasant

snaps wrote:

Apparently though the gardai cannot do anything with him? Only thing is outstanding custom and excise duty, but like you say who would collect this?

Its really amazed me, this.

'course they could do something ...if they were bothered to do so.

Likelyhood is, there is no custom and excise duty payable, which is none of their business anyway ...driving without insurance on the other hand is.

checking for insurance would be very simple also. Every insurance company has to issue you (on request) with an international proof of insurance , the so called green card. Police forces in other countries DO ask for this, when they stop foreigners ...the gardai just can't be bothered with the ensuing paperwork IF they caught a foreigner without insurance, so they don't ask:D

Owen

gyppo wrote:

Maybe you might care if your car/yourself was damaged/injured by an uninsured driver.

Whoah whoah whoah, who said anything about uninsured? They're two totally different arguments. People from other countries drive here on EU plates with Insurance. My girlfriend for one, and my sister for another. They regularly visit on holidays with their own Insurance, and for the record, my sister's UK Insurance policy and my girlfriend's Polish policy entitle them to drive 12 months of the year in another country. Of course my girlfriend's car spends most of it's little life in Poland, but that's besides the point.

Common Market boys, see the bigger picture here. You read reports of a few uninsured drivers and automatically tar any one from Poland, Czesc Republic or Lithuania with the same brush.

Alun

Tanabe wrote:

As Snaps asked earlier, can we do the same if we were to move to another EU country? Drive over on our Irish plates & let that be the end of it?

No we can't, but you can take it from me, it certainly does happen. Go to any place on mainland Europe where there are a lot of foreign workers .. places like the EU offices in Strasbourg , or a European institution like ESA for example, and you'll find loads of foreign registered cars, some of them even Irish . The authorities over there tend to adopt the same approach as they do here with occasional raids from customs officials stopping cars leaving their car parks, but that's about the limit of it.

Alun

ned78 wrote:

Whoah whoah whoah, who said anything about uninsured? They're two totally different arguments. People from other countries drive here on EU plates with Insurance. My girlfriend for one, and my sister for another. They regularly visit on holidays with their own Insurance, and for the record, my sister's UK Insurance policy and my girlfriend's Polish policy entitle them to drive 12 months of the year in another country. Of course my girlfriend's car spends most of it's little life in Poland, but that's besides the point.

Common Market boys, see the bigger picture here. You read reports of a few uninsured drivers and automatically tar any one from Poland, Czesc Republic or Lithuania with the same brush.

Right! I was shocked when I moved here from the Netherlands and found I was only allowed to drive abroad for 30 days a year on my insurance. Over there I can drive as long as I like where I like on a green card (issued as standard).

Mr.Diagnostic

ned78 wrote:

Whoah whoah whoah, who said anything about uninsured?

The OP said it in the first line of his opening post.

Owen

Mr.Diagnostic wrote:

The OP said it in the first line of his opening post.

He's concerned with a particular individual in his office, the rest of the posters are generalising about foreign plated cars in Ireland and assuming the majority are also uninsured.

sprinkles

peasant wrote:

Most of these people would have owned their cars for more then 6 months previously and are therefore not liable for VRT (not even 50 Euro as mentioned above)

On the other hand there is nothing keeping the gardai from looking for proof of insurance ...there is something like the international green insurance card after all.
But the gardai are so used to looking at round little disks, so when they don't see any (and the driver on ther "wrong" side) they just wave you through ...lack of enforcement ...as usual.

you are liable for the €50 re registration payment. It's not a tax. it covers paperwork etc.

I think it is a disgrace because they aren't insured but the whole issue about not re registering their car and getting away with vrt is nonsense.

Mc-BigE

This is not a VRT issue, its a Safety issue first, Motor Tax issue second.

I have no problem with non nationals in Ireland and if they can prove to a garda when stopped that their not working in Ireland for more than 6 months and that their car is Insured /Tax /NCT'd in country of origin. The problem is most non national cars are here for more then that and they should at least get the car NCT'd so that they don't crash into us because their car isn't road worthy.

Guy:Incognito

As I say any time one of these threads come up , I have a problem with accountability. If someone in a polish reg car runs over a child here and pisses off, even with a reg the guards have no way to trace them. Best case scenario is that a few people are going to start losing thousands through hit and runs/ uninsured drivers etc. Worst case is that drunk/sober foreigners kill people on the roads.


Irish people will still drink and drive and cause acidents, but at least if they are caught or theres witnesses, they will be take off the roads.

It would be very simple to implement a system to make sure cars are re-reged. A system could be set up with ferry companies to log reg's that enter the country, they could then be checked by gards stopping cars to see how long they are in the country.

peasant

Stekelly wrote:

As I say any time one of these threads come up , I have a problem with accountability. If someone in a polish reg car runs over a child here and pisses off, even with a reg the guards have no way to trace them.

On the continent there are two waysto tackle this:

1) cross border co-operation between police forces. So, once you have the reg, you will find the owner/driver

2) some countries have a system of registration where you personally have to register with the authorities as soon as you move somewhere. Nothing (no social insurance, no tax, no employment) happens without registering first. This helps to track down offenders ....but imagine the popularity of such a system in Ireland

Sizzler

snaps wrote:

i was tempted to phone the gardai after having to put up with his boasting and listening him saying he was untouchable, I know others that were listening to him wanted to throw him in the corrib!

Apparently though the gardai cannot do anything with him? Only thing is outstanding custom and excise duty, but like you say who would collect this?

Its really amazed me, this.

Why dont you just call the local VRO office of the rev comms and tell them you have an address of someone they may be interested in ? Also if the dude is driving without insurance the cops will DEFO be interested !

Fey!

Sizzler wrote:

Why dont you just call the local VRO office of the rev comms and tell them you have an address of someone they may be interested in ? Also if the dude is driving without insurance the cops will DEFO be interested !

Snaps: Customs are on Flood St and Druid Lane, and Gardai are in Mill St and Dalysfort Rd.

Tipsy Mac

There are cars coming in which are worth less than the cost of ferry and fuel getting them here, the only reason it's viable to do this is for insurance and NCT avoidance. The shipping companies should be liable to check all vechicles coming into the country are insured in the same way airlines are liable for fines if found carrying illegal immegrants. Also all left hand drive vehicles should have to be fitted with those light deflectors to stop there lights dazzling oncoming traffic, this is a legal requirement in France for UK/Irish cars and you will not be allowed off the ferry without them.

peasant

Tipsy Mac wrote:

There are cars coming in which are worth less than the cost of ferry and fuel getting them here, the only reason it's viable to do this is for insurance and NCT avoidance.

There *may* be another reason:

The owner might not be able to afford the latest 06 3-series

fulofh20

They should comply with road safety.

Hobbes

Tbh it sounds like hes BS'ing somewhat. As the cops would make a note of it every time he was stopped.

Also while I have no idea about this guys case, I am aware of numerous others in work from NI, France, Germany where the Revenue commissioners actually hunted them down.

snaps

i phoned the gardai and they actually said it was a custom and excise case. I think you guys are right, its to much hassle for them to chase them if they are uninsured as there is no way of tracking them (Even though they have a home address and a work address)

For the record apparently he was working here for a year, went back to Poland and brought the car brand new, drove it back. As far as I know it was never insured even for the first year. I dont know how the rules are abroad in regards to tax and NCT/MOT of cars.

His killer line to me was "The only thing I spend on my car is petrol and that is twice as expensive here than in Poland!"

Perhaps I will speak to customs, Not sure how I would go about it and what department to speak to as I know nothing about revenue.

People like this make me sick.

And in Galway its not just a one off, The road I live in has lots of Foriegn plated cars parked in it (Polish (lots of), Lithuanian, Czech, German, Spanish and I even think French). My car park at work must be at least 10% foriegn plated cars, some have been working for years here also.

I used to see lots of UK (Mainland and NI) plates here but nowadays hardly any.

kdevitt

A guy in our office said the same thing to me a while back - he was talking about buying an M5 back home and bringing it over because it would be affordable without tax and insurance!! And according to him, all his friends are doing the same - cars not even insured in Poland, and if they're stopped, the Gardai have no way of verifying it and don't attempt to either. The road tax alone that these guys are getting away with is unreal.

professore

ned78 wrote:

Whoah whoah whoah, who said anything about uninsured? They're two totally different arguments. People from other countries drive here on EU plates with Insurance. My girlfriend for one, and my sister for another. They regularly visit on holidays with their own Insurance, and for the record, my sister's UK Insurance policy and my girlfriend's Polish policy entitle them to drive 12 months of the year in another country. Of course my girlfriend's car spends most of it's little life in Poland, but that's besides the point.

Common Market boys, see the bigger picture here. You read reports of a few uninsured drivers and automatically tar any one from Poland, Czesc Republic or Lithuania with the same brush.

Common market? Why can't we buy insurance in Poland then if we have a common market? There is no such thing as the common market.

maidhc

They are insured alright. We are paying for it through our MIBI contributions. :mad:

professore

Mc-BigE wrote:

This is not a VRT issue, its a Safety issue first, Motor Tax issue second.

I have no problem with non nationals in Ireland and if they can prove to a garda when stopped that their not working in Ireland for more than 6 months and that their car is Insured /Tax /NCT'd in country of origin. The problem is most non national cars are here for more then that and they should at least get the car NCT'd so that they don't crash into us because their car isn't road worthy.

I hate the term non-national. It's only a short step to non-person or untermensch.

professore

peasant wrote:

On the continent there are two waysto tackle this:

1) cross border co-operation between police forces. So, once you have the reg, you will find the owner/driver

2) some countries have a system of registration where you personally have to register with the authorities as soon as you move somewhere. Nothing (no social insurance, no tax, no employment) happens without registering first. This helps to track down offenders ....but imagine the popularity of such a system in Ireland

Compulsory identity cards. They have them in most European countries for a reason you know.

Owen

professore wrote:

Common market? Why can't we buy insurance in Poland then if we have a common market? There is no such thing as the common market.

No you can't buy Insurance from Poland, because Insureable risk is different. What I'm saying is you're quite entitled to, as a Polish resident, buy Insurance for your Polish Car in Poland that covers with theoretically for 12 months here in Ireland. Even if you're only legally allowed to drive it here for a short period of time on Holiday.

To the poster who claims "What if a foreign car knocks down and kills someone - the Gards have no way to trace it" ... do you truly believe there is no corporation between police forces when fatalities are involved? :rolleyes:

snaps

This is the reason he went back to buy a car, he saved thousands of euro, and saves even more without tax and insurance.

I know lots of eu nationals that when they get stopped at check points they just say they are visiting. I suppose there is no way of checking if they are working?

Owen

sprinkles wrote:

I think it is a disgrace because they aren't insured but the whole issue about not re registering their car and getting away with vrt is nonsense.

Who says they're not insured? The whole reason people keep their foreign cars on foreign plates is so they can insure the cars in the home countries for far far less than it costs here, but yet still have cover for driving abroad.

And who's not to say they go home at the end of the 6 month holiday period. A Polish/Lithuanian/Czech driver is quite entitled to drive here for a holiday period of less than 6 months, drive out of the country for a weekend, and back in for another 6 months.

How many more times to we need to have this discussion on boards?

snaps

ned78 wrote:

To the poster who claims "What if a foreign car knocks down and kills someone - the Gards have no way to trace it" ... do you truly believe there is no corporation between police forces when fatalities are involved? :rolleyes:

Well i know 3 years back here at christmas in Galway there was a serious accident outside my house where an Italian reg car skidded into another car. The passenger was seriously injured and was in hospital for 2 weeks. The Italian guy apparently patched his car up the next day and was gone. My neighbour was a witness, took all the details, but the gardai were not able to track him even though he had moved back to italy!

Also, How do we even know that these eu cars are even registered with an address or details?

What stops someone going back to their country buying a car for cash and not completing paperwork? I assume its the same ovethere then it is here?

matrim

I've no problem with someone doing this so long as the car is in good shape and they have insurance.

I know someone who did it for a year and a half. He kept a map on the seat and when he was stopped he would say he was on holiday and then ask the guard for directions to make it look like he didn't know where he was going.

Owen

snaps wrote:

but the gardai were not able to track him even though he had moved back to italy!

Ever heard of Garda Laziness? In my business I deal with both the Motor Trade, and the Gardaí (As customers) - and they can indeed trace whatever they want. It's just down to making lots and lots of phone calls/faxes/emails.

snaps wrote:

What stops someone going back to their country buying a car for cash and not completing paperwork? I assume its the same ovethere then it is here?

Why can't you accept it's the Minority of people who would do something like this? And whether their Irish, Polish, Italian, German or Welsh, some people are scumbags. The amount of generalisation on this thread is ridiculous, and that's why I'm making the arguments I've put here.

The fanatical posters on this thread are so damn quick to point the finger of blame at eastern european cars, but the truth of the matter is that the majority of these Eastern European cars are well maintained (You should see how much money these guys spend on parts from the Dealership I work in - they have huge pride in the cars they drive), Insured, and Taxed. It is in their interests to have this documentation, as quite simply, they're here to work for 3 years so they can afford a house at home. If they mess up, they're deported, and they don't want that. So 3 years = 6 trips home to keep their Holiday driving criteria legal and above board.

You would do well to look at the Irish first before pointing the finger of blame, we're the worst in the world, drink drivers, uninsured drivers, hit and run drivers, and carnage every other week. What's even more remarkable, is that with the 40, 000 Polish in Cork alone, it's Irish drivers being creamed every week.

snaps

I also know of an incident fairly recently of a hungarian reg car ploughing into the front of someones house here, taking out the 2 parked cars in the drive and the front window area of the house. The driver staggered off into the night (3am) never to be seen again. He left the tattered old car at the scene. Gardai were straight on the scene but no one knew where the culprit had gone. Yes the gardai had the car and details but the person whos car it was was living in ireland at an unkown address and the car was registered to an hungarian address!

It was a massive headache for the owners of the house and cars to try and sort out insurance claims.

I know one of the owners of the cars that was smashed up never got a penny from their insurance and was out of pocket.

maidhc

ned78 wrote:

Who says they're not insured? The whole reason people keep their foreign cars on foreign plates is so they can insure the cars in the home countries for far far less than it costs here, but yet still have cover for driving abroad.

Well most insurance policys only allow you remove the car from the jurisdiction for 30days...

The are a huge number of MIBI claims involving unisured Polish/Lativan/Random former communist county people. Irish insurance payers are funding the payouts.

The people on foreign plates are also exempt from the penalty points system, do not pay tax, and are generally untraceable. And there is feck all co operation between the Gardai and police forces in these countries...

@professore
BTW polish (etc) people are not "non-nationals" as Poland is in the EU. An American citizen is however a "non national". I don't think too many americans view themselves as "non persons".

snaps

Fair point ned78,

The eu plated cars that ive seen around my area are not in tip top condition for a fact.

My big point is that if they were driving un insured/taxed un roadworthy cars (Irish reg) they can be caught.

If these cars have eu reg plated cars they cannot.

With the carnage on our roads we need to be doing everything we can to get unsafe driver/cars of the roads. What ever nationality they are or where there car has come from.

The guy really wound us all up with his boasting about "Getting away with murder"

peasant

snaps wrote:

Fair point ned78,

The eu plated cars that ive seen around my area are not in tip top condition for a fact.

My big point is that if they were driving un insured/taxed un roadworthy cars (Irish reg) they can be caught.

If these cars have eu reg plated cars they cannot.

With the carnage on our roads we need to be doing everything we can to get unsafe driver/cars of the roads. What ever nationality they are or where there car has come from.

The guy really wound us all up with his boasting about "Getting away with murder"

There is absolutely nothing to keep a guard from taking an unsafe car (any car, no matter what reg) straight off the road ...they just couldn't be bothered.

As for insurance, like I said before, there is a system in place to check for it, the international green insurance card. Ask any guard if he/she has ever heard of this ...I doubt it.

Lack of enforcement is the issue. Proper checks and you'd get any chancers off the road pretty quickly.

Victor_M

Customs & Excise are the guys to look after this, I had numerous Eastern European cars removed from my estate last year, I rang around until I spoke to someone who was responsible for dealing with foreign registered cars in Ireland for longer than the legally allowed period of time. This is the reply I got form him

"Thanks for your e-mail. Revenue are responsible for enforcing Vehicle
Registration Tax (VRT) in the State.
I am responsible for the enforcement of VRT in the Dublin Region.

There are a number of situations whereby a foreign registered vehicle could
be used legitimately in the State.
Each case is decided on its individual circumstances.

You say in you e-mail that there are a number of vehicles (5 at least) on
your road, If you supply me with the details of these vehicle and there
location I will have the matter investigated.

We are constantly carrying out operations with regard to the detection /
seizure of cars from persons who do not qualify to drive foreign registered
vehicles.

Please do not hesitate to contact me


Regards


Dave Ward
PH. 01 8776436"

He's a sound guy and within 5 working days all the cars I reported to him were gone. If the cars reported are here legally the owners have nothing to worry about, so, Ring up (I can't find his email address unfortunately), make sure you have the address, reg, colour and exact make and model.

I got sick of whinging about these cars, it's much more safisfying doing sometthing about it!

snaps

I would say i would have to contact the Galway office.

Im not sure of his address, just that he works in same building as me and i know where he parks his car everyday.

Owen

maidhc wrote:

Well most insurance policys only allow you remove the car from the jurisdiction for 30days...

Both my Polish girlfriend's Policy, and my UK based Sister's Policy cover them to drive in another European country for 12 months if necessary.

maidhc

ned78 wrote:

Both my Polish girlfriend's Policy, and my UK based Sister's Policy cover them to drive in another European country for 12 months if necessary.

Interesting. Hibernian only cover one month abroad.

snaps

yes, i am insured with hibernian and i travelled around europe last summer for 8 weeks. They agreed to cover me for that period but I do wonder what would have happened if i had an accident.

Their standard policy is 28 days abroad.

Also there is no such thing as a green card anymore, thats what they told me anyway.